Reke to come off the bench - or random Reke rantings

[Sac.1989]

few quotes ive read after our win v MEM:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap;_ylt=AoFpEHy5qbrooil0o6q1VgC8vLYF?gid=2012032023

• Smart, who replaced the fired Paul Westphal after a 2-5 start, pointed to another sign of change: he said Evans asked during the morning shootaround that John Salmonshttp://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3624/news remain in the starting lineup in his place, so long as the team is winning. “They’re starting to like each other,” Smart said. “And they’re getting closer to that other `L’ word.”
  
• It’s just good to get wins,” said Evans, adding he will continue to come off the bench. “It’s good to see everybody happy. It doesn’t matter who’s playing good or who’s playing what, as long as we’re winning.”

****

Have we been looking at this wrong perhaps ? Thornton to the bench makes sense but Tyrekes ability to change a game (9 of his 13 in the 4th tonight) and provide an instant defensive kick would help us off the bench and not interupt the way Thomas and Thornton are gelling as the starting backcourt. I guess it comes down to sustainability, its pretty now but how long can we go with an offensively geared backcourt ?

There would be a sense of capping Tyreke's potential or giving up on him to get to the peak if we turned him into a bench player some might argue.

In any case its food for thought, im just glad to see things a slowly changing and a team first mentality is being built. God i havent seen a 3 on 1 fastbreak run like we used to in awhile. Shades of the old days.

 

[Bricklayer]

This is what the team thought about it -- notice their take on it vs. the takes around here:

I could put a list of names down on this site who need to listen to what Smart and IT are saying and rethink their own positions.

As has been mentioend before, Reke has been the most unselfish player on the Kings this year, and its not even close.


Now hypothetical sustainability? He made the same offer/request to Westphal last year too when he was coming back from injury. It lasted 3 or 4 games. Saying coming off the bench as long as you are winning is fine...as long as you get beatable teams on the longsest homestand in team history. In a couple of games once we start playing San Antonio and the Thunder on the road -- well we are 4-20 on the road.

And a small defenseless backcourt caps your future (please feel free to point out the one belonging to ANY elite team in the league, or even to us back in our heyday). So does losing Reke in a year's time when teams come a knocking with bigger things in mind than a 6th man spot. You want to run up and down and play goofy ball on a long homestand while you're hot, and one of your best players makes the unselfish offer to keep it going, then you can do that. You want to make it permanent for the rest of the season as a coping mechanism for an unbalanced roster then you are making an error in any number of ways -- Reke may ask out. If he does, you have slashed his trade value and sell low again. Brilliant. If you try to extend it any further than that then you risk capping your future for something that has never worked and never will work in the NBA at the highest levels. Dwayne Wade or Russel Westbrook comes to town and you are helpless as babies.

 

[Mass]

No, Reke is a starter and has to be a starter. It's ok to come off the bench when he is returning from an injury, but I still believe MT should be our 6th man. And I don't say this because he is not good enough to be a starter, not at all. Look at Ginobili, Harden, Terry. They all come from the bench and have big minutes and big impact on their teams. Ginobili was also an All Star. There's no shame in coming off the bench. MT could still have his minutes, and I think he could be a force off the bench.

The most important thing about Reke, is that he is showing to be a great leader and that he cares about the team. Can you imagine Rondo or Westbrook saying the same thing to their coaches? he has a lot of qualities that you don't find in players of his talent, and still there are people around here who would trade him for a pick just because he can't shoot (now he can't, let's wait a little bit). I really don't understand it.

 

[NoBonus]

That is really, really encouraging... maturity and leadership from Tyreke... how long has it been since maturity and leadership were shown by a Kings starter?

 

[The Hammer]

That is really, really encouraging... maturity and leadership from Tyreke... how long has it been since maturity and leadership were shown by a Kings starter?

This is not new behavior from Evans.

 

[treach1976]

It's noble that Reke wants to come off of the bench to help the team win... I hope he is planting things in the mind of other starters who might really need to come off of the bench... Having said that, Reke should NOT come off of the bench, specifically because of his ability to defend.

One of the key advantages for the great 6 men of the league is that they get to play against the other teams bench or against tired starters. Reke will continue to exploit that off of the bench, but per Brick's comment, you need him in there stopping the big-time guards when they come to town.

 

[Dr. Spaceman]

Agreed that he should be starting and it should be commended that he sacrifices his spotlight for the team. At the same time, I believe the conversation will be dictated by how much Reke grows as the lead guard on offense. It was obvious last night when he was playing point while Thomas was on the bench how much of a difference in pacing we experience. He needs to get in to the offense quicker and he needs to make sure the ball is moving as soon as he gets in to the half court set. Relatively simple things, but if he can do that while also improving his jumper, he'll really dictate the coach's decision to send one of our three starting guards to the bench. It shouldn't be him, but it's hard to justify moving either Thomas or Thornton as of now, either. He's gotta improve to get himself out of that SF spot.

That, or we trade Thornton in the off-season for a good SF.

 

[CruzDude]

The first thought that comes to mind is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Sure its only 1 game (could be thought of as 3 games) but it worked and worked well. The bench had stepped up in recent games but with Reke coming off bench, he can fill 3 roles as backup that did not work so well as starter. There can be times that he and Salmons should be on floor together based on matchup needs but not for long stretches unless IT is leading the team out front.

For the first time I can remember Tyreke passed out on drives to th basket, three times and two got immediate buckets. That is improvement. It is something he could see from the bench he might not grab onto so quick if he was starting. It is one game. It worked. Lets have it play out. If it works then it ain't broke so no need to fix it. Lok at Harden at OkCity. Comes off the bench but is their 2nd leading scorer and great defender.

Remember when IT was coming off the bench and playing most of the 4th quarters helping the team win? That worked, using him in key situations. So that wasn't broken and he played more and more. Happened to play as starter for those minutes but it worked did't it?

 

[Hadlowe]

Reke is the best 2-way player in the backcourt on this team. As such, he needs to start in order to guard the best offensive backcourt player of the opposing team and provide steady offense.

OTOH Marcus Thornton can give you instant offense, one of the most important jobs of a 6th man. Isaiah Thomas is an excellent change of pace guard and provides some offensive potency. Both of those guys fit the 6th man mold more clearly than does Tyreke. Based on the way things are going on this team, the 3-guard rotation should be those three.

Personally, I like Thornton off the bench, but still playing 30 minutes and putting up 17 shots a game. This means we have two distributors in the backcourt to start the game and get Cousins going and a potent offensive weapon ready to come in to put up buckets when Cousins is ready to come out.

 

[Kingster]

I think it's fantastic he offerred to come off the bench to keep team continuity. Those kind of selfless gestures are huge for the development of a young team. Whether he should continue to come of the bench or not, I don't know; I'll leave that up to Smart. It's less about who starts than about playing time and who plays at the end of the game; that's what's really important.

As for Tyreke's future role, it's all about the jump shot. If he gets the intermediate jump shot a whole new world opens up, for him, for the Kings, and for us fans. Then you insert him at the 2 and wait for All Star appearances and playoff runs. If he doesn't, then he will continue to wallow in no-man's land, not really having a position, nor a clear role on this team. I used to have a saying on the bottom of my posts: Play like your life depends on it, but know that it doesn't. Well, Tyreke must practice on his jump shot like his basketball career depends on it. Because it does.

 

[Section 101]

This is not new behavior from Evans.

Don't mistake passiveness with maturity. While this is a good thing people seem to think being passive is mature. Did you forget about his mother having to whip him in shape last year and the speeding thing?

 

[Mass]

Don't mistake passiveness with maturity. While this is a good thing people seem to think being passive is mature. Did you forget about his mother having to whip him in shape last year and the speeding thing?

it's really personal between you and Reke, isn't it? No metter what he does, there's always a way to criticize him.

Maybe Reke should average 48 ppg, 85% shooting, 22 ast, 17 reb, 7 stl and 0 to, with the Kings going 82-0. Then, maybe, he would be ok for you.

 

[kennadog]

Don't mistake passiveness with maturity. While this is a good thing people seem to think being passive is mature. Did you forget about his mother having to whip him in shape last year and the speeding thing?

I really don't think it was passive at all. I've noticed a difference in Tyreke. Last year or the year before, he'd mumble with his head down. I could rarely understand more than a word or two.

In this interview you could understand him, his head was up, he was engaged, even excited about the team. His whole demeanor in interviews lately is much different and definitely more confidant and mature. I think he is maturing and quite a lot. Maturing is a process, not a finish line.

If what I did or choices I made at age 20 or 21 were the mark of whether I had any maturity, I'd be in big trouble. Heck, I made questionable decisions in my 30s.

Hmmmm.....On the other hand, just call me an immature 61 year-old.

 

[Section 101]

I really don't think it was passive at all. I've noticed a difference in Tyreke. Last year or the year before, he'd mumble with his head down. I could rarely understand more than a word or two.

In this interview you could understand him, his head was up, he was engaged, even excited about the team. His whole demeanor in interviews lately is much different and definitely more confidant and mature. I think he is maturing and quite a lot. Maturing is a process, not a finish line.

If what I did or choices I made at age 20 or 21 were the mark of whether I had any maturity, I'd be in big trouble. Heck, I made questionable decisions in my 30s.

Hmmmm.....On the other hand, just call me an immature 61 year-old.

Oh I 100% agree on the speaking part. J-Will had similar issues his first few years and grew into being into being around people and speaking.

That was my point of The Hammer's post. We have seen the immature stuff in the past and his post implied there was none.

 

[The Hammer]

Oh I 100% agree on the speaking part. J-Will had similar issues his first few years and grew into being into being around people and speaking.

That was my point of The Hammer's post. We have seen the immature stuff in the past and his post implied there was none.

How does saying that he has shown team oriented behavior in the past imply that he has never acted immaturely?

 

[kennadog]

Oh I 100% agree on the speaking part. J-Will had similar issues his first few years and grew into being into being around people and speaking.

That was my point of The Hammer's post. We have seen the immature stuff in the past and his post implied there was none.

I guess I interpreted Hammer's post differently. I thought that he meant "unselfishness" was not new to Tyreke. Guess Hammer can clarify, if he wants to.

A lot of people labeled Evans selfish with a big ego right from the start. I never really felt that. He just wasn't being helped to develop by Westphal, at all. That's obvious now. Also, the team bonding/cohesion that Smart has really worked on is evident in all the players, I think. There still may be lapses back into one-on-one plays and too much dribbling (not just by Evans), but I'm hoping that these last few games is the beginning of the end of that most of the time.

 

[Anthony1]

Even if Kings think Tyreke is a bad fit, shouldn't they play him for his trade value?

The best case scenario for Tyreke Evans and the Sacramento Kings (IMHO) is that we are able to trade him away during the Summer, possibly on draft day, or after the draft, and get something SIGNIFICANT in return.

Think about it... For Tyreke to have decent value in trade, he has to get back to putting up some nice numbers as a starter. As well as IT is playing, Reke needs to get back to starting at point guard, and every effort needs to be made at giving him as many opportunities as possible to get his stats up. We need there to be as many headlines as possible talking about Tyreke scoring 26 points, or whatever, so that his value around the league can get back to a decent level. This guy was the 4th overall pick in the draft.

If we make it known to the NBA that Tyreke just doesn't fit our system (which is true), that doesn't really help us this summer when we need to deal him away. Even if putting Tyreke back as the starter means we start losing a ton of games, it must be done. We need to give him MAXIMUM minutes, and MAXIMUM stats. There are only so many weeks left in this shortened NBA season. Petrie needs to talk with Smart, and explain the big picture.


We now have a point guard of the future in IT (or at least a decent PG to roll with for a few years). We have an outstanding SG in Marcus Thornton, who is signed to a nice 5 year contract. We have our franchise guy, Cousins. Those are the 3 pieces that we need to build everything else around. Tyreke is the odd guy out, but still, we can't trade him away for peanuts. We need to trade him for something substantial, and the only way that is going to happen, is if he gets back into the lineup as the starting point guard, and our coaching staff does everything in their ability to inflate his stats for the remainder of the season. Talk with your key 3 players (IT, Cousins and Thornton) privately, and explain to them the strategy.

Heck, sit down with Reke and explain it to him. Tell him, "Look, we know that you are a very talented player, and we were very happy to select you with the 4th overall pick. We've decided that playing Thomas at point guard, with Thornton in the backcourt, makes the most sense for us, and playing you at SF is unfair to you. We don't think you really fit with out team, and we know you are too talented to be used in the 6th man role. We will take the rest of this season to try to showcase your talents as much as possible. We will explore trading you in the summer, but wish you all the best!"


lol


Seriously though..... We need to get this guy in the starting lineup, and inflate his statistics as much as humanly possible. Yes, we will likely loose more games than we would have, but we aren't making the playoffs anyways. What's the point in winning a bunch of these games down the stretch, if you have no shot at a playoff spot? We need to recognize the situation, and plan accordingly. Trading Tyreke this summer would make a lot of sense (assuming our FO has come to the same conclusions that I have about Tyreke just not fitting into our team concept). But we don't want to trade him when his value is at the lowest possible level. Yet, with all these new philosophies about Tyreke, we are just killing dudes value league wide.


At this point, we'd be lucky to trade Reke for a late lottery pick. If that.

 

[Spike]

Hoo boy.

 

[xrzn]

Reke is not getting traded. He is our one of the two best players we have. Stop with this nonsense.

 

[pshn80]

I wouldn't worry about Tyreke. I would avoid playing him at pg. That is very clear in my mind. But he is a very good player and can fit very well in our plans for the future. Play the hell out of him. He is unsettled because he is between positions but he will swim or sink. Don't hide him, don't trade him, play him. He's a good specialized scorer, he is a good defender. His spirit is in the right place even though he has not yet responded to challenges in learning to improve himself, I think he will because, though he doen't understand it well, he wants to very much. Keep him and use him.

 

[Glenn]

I think the line that grabbed me was that we need to start him. Have you been watching the games? Apparently not.

Keep on trolling though. It's hilarious.

 

[Tetsujin]

 

[Anthony1]

I think the line that grabbed me was that we need to start him. Have you been watching the games? Apparently not.

I've seen what's been going on. It's obvious that IT and MT as our backcourt makes the most sense. Problem is, we are deflating Reke's value by doing this. Sure, we will win more games with Reke coming off the bench, but for what? We aren't making the playoffs. Might as well pump up Reke's numbers the remainder of the season, so we can get the maximum possible value in trade.

 

[Padrino]

to suggest that isaiah thomas outplays tyreke evans for a spot among the kings' "core" is so goddamned funny that i nearly spit my leftover pasta out all over my laptop keyboard. if damaged, that's an expensive repair. be careful where you debut such comedy...

in other news, i think the mods should start a sub-forum within the "kings rap" section for this kinda ****. call it "irrational bashing, asinine ideas, etc." stuff these million threads into it so that much more salient discussion remains highlighted, rather than these unfortunate trollfests...

 

[Agent23]

Hook, line and sinker!

 

[Spok22]

to suggest that isaiah thomas outplays tyreke evans for a spot among the kings' "core" is so goddamned funny that i nearly spit my leftover pasta out all over my laptop keyboard. If damaged, that's an expensive repair. Be careful where you debut such comedy...

lol.

 

[Anthony1]

to suggest that isaiah thomas outplays tyreke evans for a spot among the kings' "core" is so goddamned funny that i nearly spit my leftover pasta out all over my laptop keyboard. .

If Evans is such a huge key, then why isn't he starting at point guard?

The answer, is that while he may be significantly more talented (in general) than Thomas, Thomas is the better "fit" at point guard. So, do we then move Tyreke to the shootguard spot? No. We have a very talented young shooting guard there right now, that is doing exactly what we need a shooting guard to do. No, instead, we move him to Small Forward, a position for which he is ill suited.

Let me ask you 3 questions, and give me 3 yes or no answers back (remember, YES or NO)


1. Tyreke Evans is a great facilitating point guard, with excellent court vision and baskeball I.Q - Yes or No

2. Tyreke Evans is a great "shooting" guard - Yes or No

3. Tyreke Evans is a great small forward - Yes or No


The truth of the matter, is that Tyreke Evans is none of the above. What Tyreke Evans "is", is a great basketball player, that doesn't really fit either guard spot or the small forward spot. He's still a great basketball player, with an exceptional gift to drive to the basket and contort his legs and hips in every which way to make a spectacular layup.

That's the one thing that I will give Reke. Dude has his knees, thighs, calfs, feet, etc, etc, flying every which way as he tosses in a layup. How many times do you see a picture of dude on the front cover of the Sports section with his legs kicking way out into the air as he's scooping in a layup? Tons of times. He's great at that. Maybe one of the 5 best players at driving to the hole in the entire league. If you consider his size, he's definitely one of the 3 best non-midgets in the NBA at driving to the basket. He's a solid defender, although you would expect him to average a bit more steals than he does. What happened to his steals? His rookie year, wasn't he like top 6 or 7 in the NBA in steals?


Anyways, look, the guy has talent, I'm not trying to say he's worthless. He was the 4th overall pick in a draft in the draft. I just don't think he's a good fit for our particular team. I'm not sure if the Front Office has come to the same conclusion as I have, but if they have, then their best coarse of action is to try to use the remainder of the season to best showcase his talents, so that they can reap the maximum return possible for their investment in him. If you know deep down in your heart that it's just not going to work out, then make the tough decision to move on, and look to the future. If the decision is made that Reke doesn't really fit into our long term strategy, playing him at SF or bringing him off the bench isn't going to help anything. It will deflate his trade value, and won't help our team. We are better off having a legitimate SF play the position of SF. Playing Reke as our 6th man does nothing but diminish his trade value. Nobody is going to give up serious talent for a guy that can't even find his way into your own starting lineup.

 

[VF21]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: I have merged the Tyreke needs to play thread with the Reke to come off the bench thread. There does NOT need to be a new thread every time someone has what they think is a new thought about Tyreke Evans and his future with the Kings. NONE of this stuff is new and there's no reason for the new thread.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

If Evans is such a huge key, then why isn't he starting at point guard?

The answer, is that while he may be significantly more talented (in general) than Thomas, Thomas is the better "fit" at point guard. So, do we then move Tyreke to the shootguard spot? No. We have a very talented young shooting guard there right now, that is doing exactly what we need a shooting guard to do. No, instead, we move him to Small Forward, a position for which he is ill suited.

Let me ask you 3 questions, and give me 3 yes or no answers back (remember, YES or NO)


1. Tyreke Evans is a great facilitating point guard, with excellent court vision and baskeball I.Q - Yes or No

2. Tyreke Evans is a great "shooting" guard - Yes or No

3. Tyreke Evans is a great small forward - Yes or No


The truth of the matter, is that Tyreke Evans is none of the above. What Tyreke Evans "is", is a great basketball player, that doesn't really fit either guard spot or the small forward spot. He's still a great basketball player, with an exceptional gift to drive to the basket and contort his legs and hips in every which way to make a spectacular layup.

That's the one thing that I will give Reke. Dude has his knees, thighs, calfs, feet, etc, etc, flying every which way as he tosses in a layup. How many times do you see a picture of dude on the front cover of the Sports section with his legs kicking way out into the air as he's scooping in a layup? Tons of times. He's great at that. Maybe one of the 5 best players at driving to the hole in the entire league. If you consider his size, he's definitely one of the 3 best non-midgets in the NBA at driving to the basket. He's a solid defender, although you would expect him to average a bit more steals than he does. What happened to his steals? His rookie year, wasn't he like top 6 or 7 in the NBA in steals?


Anyways, look, the guy has talent, I'm not trying to say he's worthless. He was the 4th overall pick in a draft in the draft. I just don't think he's a good fit for our particular team. I'm not sure if the Front Office has come to the same conclusion as I have, but if they have, then their best coarse of action is to try to use the remainder of the season to best showcase his talents, so that they can reap the maximum return possible for their investment in him. If you know deep down in your heart that it's just not going to work out, then make the tough decision to move on, and look to the future. If the decision is made that Reke doesn't really fit into our long term strategy, playing him at SF or bringing him off the bench isn't going to help anything. It will deflate his trade value, and won't help our team. We are better off having a legitimate SF play the position of SF. Playing Reke as our 6th man does nothing but diminish his trade value. Nobody is going to give up serious talent for a guy that can't even find his way into your own starting lineup.

 

[VF21]

in other news, i think the mods should start a sub-forum within the "kings rap" section for this kinda ****. call it "irrational bashing, asinine ideas, etc." stuff these million threads into it so that much more salient discussion remains highlighted, rather than these unfortunate trollfests...

Interesting idea, but have you met me? On a bad day, I might well dump everything I disagree with into the irrational thread.