'Realistic' Offseason

[twslam07]

I know most people will look at the realistic portion of this title and scoff, but I really think you'll come to find that everything in this scenario is very plausible.

First, let's start off with our cap situation...

$9,539,638 in Cap Space
With the assumption that we pick up McCallum's and Moreland's options, we will have 9 players under contract (Cousins, Thompson, Landry, Moreland, Gay, McLemore, Stauskas, Collison, & McCallum). This would be a total payroll of $53,145,129. The cap is projected to be $67.4 mil next year which would result in us having around $14.3 mil in cap space. However, we have to consider cap holds.

The 6th pick's salary in his first year will be $2,831,900, so we will use that as the cap hold for the Kings' first rounder. Including the first round cap hold and the amount of players under contract, it would result in 10 roster spots being covered. We must have have 12 spots covered to not have to factor in an undrafted rookie cap hold. With that in mind, we'll have to add two more undrafted rookie cap holds to get to 12 players ($525,00 times 2 = $1,050,000). Factoring in these three cap holds ($2,831,900 + $525,000 + $525,000 = $3,881,900), the Kings will have about $10.4 mil in cap space.

The last thing we'll have to factor in is Ellington's stretch. His contract was $2.5 mil over 1 year. We had to stretch this $2.5 mil over 3 years (meaning $833,333 counts against our cap). This brings our cap space to $9,539,638, and this would be the roster:

PG - Collison/McCallum
SG - McLemore/Stauskas
SF - Gay
PF - Thompson/Landry/Moreland
C - Cousins


2015 Draft

Trade #6 & Lower 2016 Protection to Top 7 for Taj Gibson & Tony Snell ($2,924,138 in Cap Space)
I think at this point, another rookie is not going to help us compete right now (that is if we don't win the lottery). I think we should look to trade the pick if possible to help us bring in a solid veteran who can help us compete right now.

I think Chicago would be an ideal trading partner. Gibson seems to be the odd man out between Noah, Gasol, and Mirotic. A lot of Chicago fans seem to be fine with moving Gibson to create more playing time for Mirotic. Essentially, replacing Mirotic with Gibson in the lineup won't be much of a loss (if at all), so they would like to acquire an asset to help them now or in the future.

Offering the 6th pick in the draft for Gibson would definitely be appealing to Chicago. That's quite the asset. However, I think that's too much to give up for Gibson. I think asking for Gibson and Snell while giving them the 6th pick and lowering next year's protection on the pick to top 7 would be a fair deal. It gives them a high pick for a player that is no longer a huge need, and they also don't have to take on any salary which gives them more cap space.

Gibson would give us a starting level big to finally start next to Cousins. He would be a good defender in the post, on the perimeter, in pick & rolls, and on help defense. He would also help Cousins protect the rim and clean up on the defensive boards. On offense, he's not too bad in the post and he can knock down mid-range jumpers when left open to help space the floor for the other players.

Not to mention Snell would be a good wing to add to the bench. He's a long, athletic wing who can defend and knock down the three. On top of that, he's still on his rookie contract.

Our cap space would now be $2,924,138 with Gibson and Snell coming in (and the 1st round draft pick cap hold and one of the undrafted rookie cap holds going away). Our updated roster is below:

PG - Collison/McCallum
SG - McLemore/Stauskas
SF - Gay/Snell
PF - Gibson/Thompson/Landry/Moreland
C - Cousins


Free Agency

Stretch Landry's Contract ($6,449,138 in Cap Space)
At this point, we have $2,924,138 in cap space. That's not much to work with. However, if we stretch Landry, his contract would go from $6,750,000 to $2,700,000 ($4,050,000 in savings). But since we dropped a player from the roster, we have to add another $525,000 cap hold so it would only be $3,525,000 in savings bringing our cap space up to $6,449,138. This is our roster at this point:

PG - Collison/McCallum
SG - McLemore/Stauskas
SF - Gay/Snell
PF - Gibson/Thompson/Moreland
C - Cousins

Sign Cory Joseph to $18,822,150 Over 3 Years ($947,138 in Cap Space)
By the looks of our roster, we have decent backups at SG (Stauskas), SF (Snell), & PF (Thompson). We could still use help at backup PG (McCallum) and C (Nobody). There are a few PGs available this year that would be good backups (Joseph, Lin, Beverley, Mo Williams, N. Cole, etc.). I like what Joseph brings. He competes very hard on both ends of the floor. He averages 50% from the floor and has improved his 3pt shooting each year (although the sample sizes are rather small). His defense is great and can switch on to some SGs at times. Lin would be a more offensively gifted PG, but he wouldn't be as strong defensively. With Stauskas coming off the bench (someone who can handle the ball and help run the offense in the future), it might make more sense to value defense from our backup PG position.

I wouldn't be opposed to bring in Joseph, Lin, or Beverely as a backup PG for around $4-5 mil dollars a year. However, I'm going to say we offered Joseph an $18,822,150 contract over 3 years as a worst case scenario. Considering the 4.5% pay increases each year, his starting salary would be $6,000,000. That would reduce our cap space to $974,138. This would be our current roster:

PG - Collison/Joseph/McCallum
SG - McLemore/Stauskas
SF - Gay/Snell
PF - Gibson/Thompson/Moreland
C - Cousins

Use the Room Exception on Cole Aldrich ($1,314,862 Over the Cap)
With only $947,138 of cap space left, that basically only leaves us with veteran minimum contracts and the Room Exception. As we all know, backup center has been a huge need. When Cousins goes out, we have had nobody to come in and continue to anchor the defense. I think it makes sense to use our Room Exception on a center. Ajinca is a free agent this year. However, I think he will get more attractive offers than a Room Exception. Aldrich is also available and I definitely think a Room Exception will be appealing to him. He's been playing on veteran minimum deals the past couple years, so this contract will obviously be a significant pay raise. He's been playing well on the defensive end and is cleaning up on the boards. I think he would be a decent 4th big to help stay a solid defensive and rebounding team when Cousins is out of the game.

Considering the Room Exception is $2,814,000 in it's first year (and it's replacing a $525,000 cap hold), we'll now be over the cap by $1,314,862. This would be our current roster:

PG - Collison/Joseph/McCallum
SG - McLemore/Stauskas
SF - Gay/Snell
PF - Gibson/Thompson/Moreland
C - Cousins/Aldrich

Sign Andre Miller, Omri Casspi, & Charlie Villanueva to Veteran Minimum Deals
Right now, we're above the cap, have 12 roster spots covered, and don't have anymore exceptions to use. We'll have to utilize veteran minimum contracts from here on out. I think we should try and bring back Miller. He would be a great mentor to our young players and all of our guards. He's also been vocal about wanting to come back so I think a veteran minimum deal gets it done. I would also bring Casspi back on a veteran minimum deal. He's been a decent player for us and originally wanted to come to Sacramento on a minimum deal so I think it's likely that he would come back for that price. For our last roster slot, I think we should look at bringing in a 5th big (rather than relying on Moreland in that role). We don't have a stretch big on the roster so I would target a guy like Villanueva, Bonner, or Gooden to come in on a veteran minimum. After signing these three players, our roster would look like this:

PG - Collison/Joseph/McCallum/Miller
SG - McLemore/Stauskas
SF - Gay/Snell/Casspi
PF - Gibson/Thompson/Villanueva/Moreland
C - Cousins/Aldrich


Conclusion

I think this would be quite the successful offseason. Finally finding a great compliment to Cousins would be an accomplishment in itself, but also bringing in a quality backup PG (to give us 48 minutes of consistent PG play a game), a 3 and D bench wing (Snell), and a good defensive & rebounding C (to spell Cousins when he's in foul trouble or when he's tired) is icing on the cake. The starting lineup should be solid, and a bench rotation of Joseph, Stauskas, Snell, Thompson, and Aldrich should help maintain the leads our starting lineup generates. This roster could make some big strides next year.

 

[Gilles]

I would argue, that roster looks more like
Collison/.../McCallum
McLemore/Stauskas
Gay/...
.../.../Thompson/Landry/Moreland
Cousins/Thompson
Ray, while showing great effort, is scored on a lot, plus his playmaking, while not needed at the starting lineup, is not enough to power backup unit. For me he is a 3rd stringer, that can be used, when needed, rather than as consistent contributor.
Stauskas cannot be called a good backup at the moment.
Moreland hasn't shown anything yet, and Carl isn't showing anything anymore. If one of Boogie/Potential starting 4/JT is unavailable, team's frontcourt reverts back to current pathetic situation - need more depth of decent quality.
If Omri is willing to come back for a minimum, Kings should certainly sign him. With more money needed it would depend.
If Reggie is willing to come back for a minimum, Kings should certainly sign him.
Miller might not have left in the tank to be relied upon as a backup PG, but he's a vet presence, so if vet min is his asking price, he should be back. Beverley and Lin are looking for starting gigs and money. Joseph is a solid option.
Kings don't need anything Earth shattering or huge turnover - just plug obvious holes. Move current, say, 6-10 guys into 9-13 roles.

 

[lawlman91]

Ray, while showing great effort, is scored on a lot, plus his playmaking, while not needed at the starting lineup, is not enough to power backup unit. For me he is a 3rd stringer, that can be used, when needed, rather than as consistent contributor.

I would argue otherwise; he's shown that he's reliable enough to be the second PG. Getting another PG is a luxury, and won't significantly help us as much as getting size and 3pt shooting. Once we get those down, it would then be time to take the luxury to look at PG options. As a wise man I know says, it's best to plug holes in the ship before decorating it.

 

[9x1x6]

Trade Ben(-3m), Ray(-950k) and 2020 1st (top 7 protected) to Denver for Lawson (+12.5m) and Chandler(+7m). Have them send a 2nd to Philly for taking Landry(-6.5m) off our hands. That ties up most of our cap, so we would have to use our draft pick, ideally aiming at a stretch 4 for this scenario (Since we will need perimeter help for Lawsons drive and kick).

Take Kaminsky/Looney/Towns whoever we can grab, realisticly I'll go with Kaminsky for now.

Move Darren to the starting 2 guard spot, Nik switches to back up PG. We still have a year for Andre to bail him out if need be.

PG: Lawson(12.5)/Stauskas(2.5)/Miller(1)
SG: Collison(5)/Chandler(7)
SF: Gay(12.5)/Casspi(1)
PF: Kaminsky(2.5)/Thompson(6)/Moreland(1)
C: Boogie(14.5)

65 million about adding in ellingtons stretch. The luxury tax next year is projected at 81 million (with a 66.5 cap).

That's a decent amount of room to find a back up for Boogie, or another Wing. Tyson Chandler, Brandan Wright, Mozgov, Asik or Danny Green?

 

[Amit149]

Trade Ben(-3m), Ray(-950k) and 2020 1st (top 7 protected) to Denver for Lawson (+12.5m) and Chandler(+7m). Have them send a 2nd to Philly for taking Landry(-6.5m) off our hands. That ties up most of our cap, so we would have to use our draft pick, ideally aiming at a stretch 4 for this scenario (Since we will need perimeter help for Lawsons drive and kick).

Take Kaminsky/Looney/Towns whoever we can grab, realisticly I'll go with Kaminsky for now.

Move Darren to the starting 2 guard spot, Nik switches to back up PG. We still have a year for Andre to bail him out if need be.

PG: Lawson(12.5)/Stauskas(2.5)/Miller(1)
SG: Collison(5)/Chandler(7)
SF: Gay(12.5)/Casspi(1)
PF: Kaminsky(2.5)/Thompson(6)/Moreland(1)
C: Boogie(14.5)

65 million about adding in ellingtons stretch. The luxury tax next year is projected at 81 million (with a 66.5 cap).

That's a decent amount of room to find a back up for Boogie, or another Wing. Tyson Chandler, Brandan Wright, Mozgov, Asik or Danny Green?

1. I doubt we can get both Lawson and Chandler for Ben and a 2020 pick.

2. I also find it hard to see a Lawson/Collison backcourt survive for long periods, the Phoenix suns PG's pairing was made possible by Bledsoe being a Beast although only 6' 1" and Dragic/Knight standing at 6' 3"- Collison is a small 6' 0" guy (listed as 175 lbs) and Lawson is on the wrong side of 6 feet.
having said that you can just give Chandler the starting job and play Collison as a super-sub.

3. There is talk around the league that Jrue Holiday might be up for grabs, if we can trade for him wouldn't it be a much better fit to what we are trying to build? he is 24 years old, 6' 4", a good defender and I can see a pairing of him and DC together without getting killed defensively. I know we fixate on Lawson because of his connection to Karl, but i think if we can get Holiday at the same price or lower than we can get Lawson we should definitely go for it.

4. Also importent to remember imo- Collison might be an assett, his contract is a bargain and I can see some teams that will be willing to part from some talent/assets to get him. he is a legit starting PG on a good salalry.

 

[206Fan]

The Kings should crowd-source me.. I have a knack for underrated players that are now shining or will be shining..

The East is so damn tight right now and there are so many protections on draft picks.. But here's a trade I'd do.
*these are the Celtic's picks and they're currently hovering around picks 9, 10, 11 14-16.(depending on playoffs) The rest are picks they're guaranteed to get.

Trade the 6th pick+ Carl Landry for the 15th pick+26th pick+33rd pick+Trade Exception.

• Draft Kris Dunn or Jerian Grant with 15th pick.
• Draft Justin Anderson with 26th pick.
  
• Draft Robert Upshaw with 33rd pick.

Serious question, can we wait until late in the season to sign our rookies so they won't count against our salary cap till we've gotten our FA? Let's say we wanted to make a big FA push. Could we then wait to sign our rookies so we can use more money? I think we can.

I calculate that we have around $13.2million. After trading Landry away, it leaves us with 19.7million in cap space.

Push hard for FAs and start offering maxs. Offer a max to both/either Draymond Green and Khris Middleton.
They'll take up $14.8million of the cap. We'll have 4.9million left.

Trade McLemore and McCallum for fan favorite Kevin Martin.
Resign Evans to be a mentor for Cousins.

new roster....

PG- Jerian Grant/Darren Collison/Nik Stauskas
SG- Khris Middleton/Kevin Martin
SF-Rudy Gay/Justin Anderson
PF- Robert Upshaw/Eric Moreland/Reggie Evans
C- DeMarcus Cousins/JT



That might be unrealstic, but I have another more realistic idea..

-Draft WCS
-Trade Ben+Landry+Ray for Jrue Holiday
-Sign Danny Green for 11million per year.
-Resign Casspi to a small 1year contract again

PG- Jrue Holiday/Darren Collison
SG- Dany Green/Nik Stauskas
SF- Rudy Gay/Omri Casspi
PF- WCS/Eric Moreland
C- Demarcus Cousins/JT

 

[twslam07]

1. I doubt we can get both Lawson and Chandler for Ben and a 2020 pick.

2. I also find it hard to see a Lawson/Collison backcourt survive for long periods, the Phoenix suns PG's pairing was made possible by Bledsoe being a Beast although only 6' 1" and Dragic/Knight standing at 6' 3"- Collison is a small 6' 0" guy (listed as 175 lbs) and Lawson is on the wrong side of 6 feet.
having said that you can just give Chandler the starting job and play Collison as a super-sub.

3. There is talk around the league that Jrue Holiday might be up for grabs, if we can trade for him wouldn't it be a much better fit to what we are trying to build? he is 24 years old, 6' 4", a good defender and I can see a pairing of him and DC together without getting killed defensively. I know we fixate on Lawson because of his connection to Karl, but i think if we can get Holiday at the same price or lower than we can get Lawson we should definitely go for it.

4. Also importent to remember imo- Collison might be an assett, his contract is a bargain and I can see some teams that will be willing to part from some talent/assets to get him. he is a legit starting PG on a good salalry.

I would much rather have Holiday and Lawson simply because we don't need his offense, but we do need defense at the PG spot. A Holiday - Collison - McLemore could be a solid 3 guard lineup. However, Holiday's injury history is just a little too risky for me. Looking across what's available, I think we're better off keeping Collison as the starter and bringing in a solid backup PG (Joseph, Lin, Beverley) to solidify the PG play of this team.

 

[twslam07]

Serious question, can we wait until late in the season to sign our rookies so they won't count against our salary cap till we've gotten our FA? Let's say we wanted to make a big FA push. Could we then wait to sign our rookies so we can use more money? I think we can.

To my knowledge, that is not true. For every 1st round pick you have, there is a cap hold for that pick. So even if you wait to sign them, that cap space is still being taken up. If anyone knows more, feel free to correct me.

 

[Amit149]

I would much rather have Holiday and Lawson simply because we don't need his offense, but we do need defense at the PG spot. A Holiday - Collison - McLemore could be a solid 3 guard lineup. However, Holiday's injury history is just a little too risky for me. Looking across what's available, I think we're better off keeping Collison as the starter and bringing in a solid backup PG (Joseph, Lin, Beverley) to solidify the PG play of this team.

I agree that his injury history is somewhat worrisome, but I think that if we can get him for a low price we should try to trade for him, although I'll be also happy with a scenario where we get a guy like Joseph at a reasonable price.

To my knowledge, that is not true. For every 1st round pick you have, there is a cap hold for that pick. So even if you wait to sign them, that cap space is still being taken up. If anyone knows more, feel free to correct me.

Yeah you are right. it still take a place in the cap, but since a rookie contract can range between 80% to 120% of the set NBA Rookie Scale- the cap for an unsigned rookie is calculated as if he signed the lowest possible contract.
considering the Rookie Scale for next year's 6th pick will be 2,831,900 the difference between the cap hold to a contract equal to the Rookie Scale will carve you an extra 566,380 in cap space.
Another reason not to sign the guy right away is that it's easier to trade him that way- becuase after you sign him you have to wait 30 days before is eligible for trading.

 

[Gilles]

The Kings should crowd-source me.. I have a knack for underrated players that are now shining or will be shining..

The East is so damn tight right now and there are so many protections on draft picks.. But here's a trade I'd do.
*these are the Celtic's picks and they're currently hovering around picks 9, 10, 11 14-16.(depending on playoffs) The rest are picks they're guaranteed to get.

Trade the 6th pick+ Carl Landry for the 15th pick+26th pick+33rd pick+Trade Exception.

• Draft Kris Dunn or Jerian Grant with 15th pick.
• Draft Justin Anderson with 26th pick.
  
• Draft Robert Upshaw with 33rd pick.

Serious question, can we wait until late in the season to sign our rookies so they won't count against our salary cap till we've gotten our FA? Let's say we wanted to make a big FA push. Could we then wait to sign our rookies so we can use more money? I think we can.

I calculate that we have around $13.2million. After trading Landry away, it leaves us with 19.7million in cap space.

Push hard for FAs and start offering maxs. Offer a max to both/either Draymond Green and Khris Middleton.
They'll take up $14.8million of the cap. We'll have 4.9million left.

Trade McLemore and McCallum for fan favorite Kevin Martin.
Resign Evans to be a mentor for Cousins.

new roster....

PG- Jerian Grant/Darren Collison/Nik Stauskas
SG- Khris Middleton/Kevin Martin
SF-Rudy Gay/Justin Anderson
PF- Robert Upshaw/Eric Moreland/Reggie Evans
C- DeMarcus Cousins/JT



That might be unrealstic, but I have another more realistic idea..

-Draft WCS
-Trade Ben+Landry+Ray for Jrue Holiday
-Sign Danny Green for 11million per year.
-Resign Casspi to a small 1year contract again

PG- Jrue Holiday/Darren Collison
SG- Dany Green/Nik Stauskas
SF- Rudy Gay/Omri Casspi
PF- WCS/Eric Moreland
C- Demarcus Cousins/JT

In your first plan seeing Upshaw as a starting PF instantly stops me from looking any further - I still see another fantasy in Middleton though...And absolutely unproven rookie as a backup PF...And Jerian Grant would have no business starting over Collison...Martin trade doesn't work under CBA - Kings need to send out about $300,000 more money

Your second plan has another rookie as a starting PF, at least this one is close to 50/50 to work out, but then I see same absolutely unproven rookie as a backup PF - at least keep Landry/Reggie there, and injury-prone player at PG. Pass

To my knowledge, that is not true. For every 1st round pick you have, there is a cap hold for that pick. So even if you wait to sign them, that cap space is still being taken up. If anyone knows more, feel free to correct me.

That would be correct. Rookie contracts are usually at 120% of rookie scale, so at least you get some small room by delaying the signing, but unless guys sign outside of NBA professionally, first-rounders count against NBA cap at rookie scale rate.

 

[Amit149]

The Kings should crowd-source me.. I have a knack for underrated players that are now shining or will be shining..

The East is so damn tight right now and there are so many protections on draft picks.. But here's a trade I'd do.
*these are the Celtic's picks and they're currently hovering around picks 9, 10, 11 14-16.(depending on playoffs) The rest are picks they're guaranteed to get.

Trade the 6th pick+ Carl Landry for the 15th pick+26th pick+33rd pick+Trade Exception.

• Draft Kris Dunn or Jerian Grant with 15th pick.
• Draft Justin Anderson with 26th pick.
  
• Draft Robert Upshaw with 33rd pick.

Serious question, can we wait until late in the season to sign our rookies so they won't count against our salary cap till we've gotten our FA? Let's say we wanted to make a big FA push. Could we then wait to sign our rookies so we can use more money? I think we can.

I calculate that we have around $13.2million. After trading Landry away, it leaves us with 19.7million in cap space.

Push hard for FAs and start offering maxs. Offer a max to both/either Draymond Green and Khris Middleton.
They'll take up $14.8million of the cap. We'll have 4.9million left.

Trade McLemore and McCallum for fan favorite Kevin Martin.
Resign Evans to be a mentor for Cousins.

new roster....

PG- Jerian Grant/Darren Collison/Nik Stauskas
SG- Khris Middleton/Kevin Martin
SF-Rudy Gay/Justin Anderson
PF- Robert Upshaw/Eric Moreland/Reggie Evans
C- DeMarcus Cousins/JT



That might be unrealstic, but I have another more realistic idea..

-Draft WCS
-Trade Ben+Landry+Ray for Jrue Holiday
-Sign Danny Green for 11million per year.
-Resign Casspi to a small 1year contract again

PG- Jrue Holiday/Darren Collison
SG- Dany Green/Nik Stauskas
SF- Rudy Gay/Omri Casspi
PF- WCS/Eric Moreland
C- Demarcus Cousins/JT

Actually I think the first scenario is more realistic than the second one since it is known that the Celtics are trying to move up the draft (of course to assume all 3 players you want will be available when your turn comes is highly unlikely).
I can't see GSW letting Draymond walk so that ain't gonna happen in my eyes, and to make the Bucks who have a ton to spend not match anything you'd offer you'll have to offer a tough to swallow deal in terms of overpaying Middleton. And Ben and Ray for Martin is actually a fair offer (you can definitely fix the slight ammount of money you need to make the trade work with ome gymnastics).
BUT.. I actually don't like the outcome you get, this line-up is not all that good unless you hit a slam-dunk with your draftees.

The second scenario is a borderline pipe dream, Ben is a nice asset, Ray is an ok player but he doesn't hold much value and Landry is a burden- if NO takes that trade they are dumb.
Danny Green is actually very interesting to me, although I think eventually he's gonna end up back with the spurs- they gave pricey extensions to Diaw and Splitter and they will retain Leonard at max money. giving Green a big contract will kill their cap space situation and that is if they renounce all of their FA.
Green is a big part of what the Spurs are doing, but so was Lance in Indiana and Parsons in Houston, considering the Spurs are known from avoiding the tax it can get interesting though I still think they'll keep him (and that's one of the reason I think we can get Joseph on a decent price, because if they keep both Leonard and Green it will be hard for them to offer him a decent contract without crossing the tax line).

 

[206Fan]

In your first plan seeing Upshaw as a starting PF instantly stops me from looking any further - I still see another fantasy in Middleton though...And absolutely unproven rookie as a backup PF...And Jerian Grant would have no business starting over Collison...Martin trade doesn't work under CBA - Kings need to send out about $300,000 more money

Your second plan has another rookie as a starting PF, at least this one is close to 50/50 to work out, but then I see same absolutely unproven rookie as a backup PF - at least keep Landry/Reggie there, and injury-prone player at PG. Pass

That would be correct. Rookie contracts are usually at 120% of rookie scale, so at least you get some small room by delaying the signing, but unless guys sign outside of NBA professionally, first-rounders count against NBA cap at rookie scale rate.

I didn't like my 1st one either. I was trying to find ways to get Ilyasova, but no damn way would the Bucks trade him to us if we stole Middleton way.

I must've read it wrong on the Martin trade.

There's nothing wrong with Upshaw nor WCS starting though. I see both rookies being able to step in and make some type of impact. Upshaw is a great shotblocker with size..unlike Moreland.

If we have the money, it's not a fantasy. I've been lurking around a lot of Miluawkee websites and for little it's worth, most fans think 12million is absolute max for Middleton. There are a few who want to give him the max if it means keeping him. I don't know if the Bucks are willing to keep Middleton at a price like that considering they have Antempko and Parker. The bucks are going to be seriously F'D once the cap rises and they have to pay all of their players...Parker, Antempko, and MCW.

 

[206Fan]

Actually I think the first scenario is more realistic than the second one since it is known that the Celtics are trying to move up the draft (of course to assume all 3 players you want will be available when your turn comes is highly unlikely).
I can't see GSW letting Draymond walk so that ain't gonna happen in my eyes, and to make the Bucks who have a ton to spend not match anything you'd offer you'll have to offer a tough to swallow deal in terms of overpaying Middleton. And Ben and Ray for Martin is actually a fair offer (you can definitely fix the slight ammount of money you need to make the trade work with ome gymnastics).
BUT.. I actually don't like the outcome you get, this line-up is not all that good unless you hit a slam-dunk with your draftees.

The second scenario is a borderline pipe dream, Ben is a nice asset, Ray is an ok player but he doesn't hold much value and Landry is a burden- if NO takes that trade they are dumb.
Danny Green is actually very interesting to me, although I think eventually he's gonna end up back with the spurs- they gave pricey extensions to Diaw and Splitter and they will retain Leonard at max money. giving Green a big contract will kill their cap space situation and that is if they renounce all of their FA.
Green is a big part of what the Spurs are doing, but so was Lance in Indiana and Parsons in Houston, considering the Spurs are known from avoiding the tax it can get interesting though I still think they'll keep him (and that's one of the reason I think we can get Joseph on a decent price, because if they keep both Leonard and Green it will be hard for them to offer him a decent contract without crossing the tax line).

Yea I picked the Celtics because they're known to want to move up..that team isn't sucky enough to get a top pick, and they're not good enough to be a playoff lock.

Yea in the 1st one I think it just makes our overall bench a lot stronger. You have Collison with Kevin Martin and Justin Anderson. Anderson is another NBA ready player. He's arguably the best defensive guard.
You're banking on a lot of rookies with the 1st one though. All 3 players have been in college for at least/over 3 years and I think they're a lot more pro ready than everyone else.

I think Middleton can be a superstar in the making. He's the best defensive SG in the NBA already.


I don't think the 2nd one is a bad deal for NO. Look at it from their perspective, would I rather have 3 players vs 1 injured player? Ben is a young player with a ton of upside. He might able to fill their SG need and kick Gordon to the curb next year. Ray is a decent back up PG. Landry gives them more scoring. It's arguable that the team is better without holiday. He's only played like 35 last season and 37 this season. I don't think its a bad deal for NO at all considering all 3 players they're getting will be at least able to contribute somewhere. And they get Ben.

Yea I think if we offer Green enough money, it'll make the Spurs hesitate a bit. I can kind of see Green taking less money to stay with the Spurs, but if he wants to be paid and have a bigger role, he can come here. I think he'd be our 3rd best player and we'd feature him a lot in our offense.

 

[Gary]

I would do everything in my power to trade McLemore.

That's realistic. He's not consistent and one of the worst starting SGs in the league right now.

 

[Gilles]

I didn't like my 1st one either. I was trying to find ways to get Ilyasova, but no damn way would the Bucks trade him to us if we stole Middleton way.

I must've read it wrong on the Martin trade.

There's nothing wrong with Upshaw nor WCS starting though. I see both rookies being able to step in and make some type of impact. Upshaw is a great shotblocker with size..unlike Moreland.

If we have the money, it's not a fantasy. I've been lurking around a lot of Miluawkee websites and for little it's worth, most fans think 12million is absolute max for Middleton. There are a few who want to give him the max if it means keeping him. I don't know if the Bucks are willing to keep Middleton at a price like that considering they have Antempko and Parker. The bucks are going to be seriously F'D once the cap rises and they have to pay all of their players...Parker, Antempko, and MCW.

Show me PO team with a starting rookie big, who plays 30 minutes per game? Only Bucks come to mind and they were at .500 in the East, which is not a PO team in the West. And technically Mirotic (was arguably the best player in Europe last year at the age of 23) started in 3 games for Bulls.
Simple math exercise: what is x, if x to $62 million = $15 million to $105 million. You're telling me, someone wouldn't pay $9 million to a player in Middleton situation last summer?

 

[twslam07]

Show me PO team with a starting rookie big, who plays 30 minutes per game? Only Bucks come to mind and they were at .500 in the East, which is not a PO team in the West. And technically Mirotic (was arguably the best player in Europe last year at the age of 23) started in 3 games for Bulls.
Simple math exercise: what is x, if x to $62 million = $15 million to $105 million. You're telling me, someone wouldn't pay $9 million to a player in Middleton situation last summer?

Totally agree with this.

However, I thought the cap was going to jump up to $91.2 mil. Where did you see $105 mil?

 

[206Fan]

Show me PO team with a starting rookie big, who plays 30 minutes per game? Only Bucks come to mind and they were at .500 in the East, which is not a PO team in the West. And technically Mirotic (was arguably the best player in Europe last year at the age of 23) started in 3 games for Bulls.
Simple math exercise: what is x, if x to $62 million = $15 million to $105 million. You're telling me, someone wouldn't pay $9 million to a player in Middleton situation last summer?

Uhm show me a lottery team last year that is now a playoff team.

What are you referring to when talking about Middleton?

Edit: just because you're starting doesn't mean you play starter minutes

 

[Gilles]

Totally agree with this.

However, I thought the cap was going to jump up to $91.2 mil. Where did you see $105 mil?

$91 million for 2016/17 season and $105 for 2017/18.

Uhm show me a lottery team last year that is now a playoff team.

What are you referring to when talking about Middleton?

Edit: just because you're starting doesn't mean you play starter minutes

You have Moreland or Reggie as a backup PF.

 

[kingsboi]

18 million for Cory Joseph? that's cruel....he will gladly take 5 million to stay with San Antonio. A realistic off season should be to draft properly and dangle Ben and Nik to see what assets you can get to win ASAP.

 

[206Fan]

$91 million for 2016/17 season and $105 for 2017/18.

You have Moreland or Reggie as a backup PF.

And JT! Don't forget that man! I see JT playing most of the minutes at PF but I have him as Cuz's backup when the 2nd unit comes in. Moreland/Reggie can handle 8-12mins a game between the two somewhere(I hope..). If we drafted Upshaw, I think he'd get less than 20mins a game. JT would play around 5-8mins with the backups and play around 15mins with Cuz.

I know it would be a reach to force someone like Upshaw to play heavy minutes though. WCS would probably do much better.

I'm sorry I killed this thread with my "unrealstic" options.

 

[Gilles]

And JT! Don't forget that man! I see JT playing most of the minutes at PF but I have him as Cuz's backup when the 2nd unit comes in. Moreland/Reggie can handle 8-12mins a game between the two somewhere(I hope..). If we drafted Upshaw, I think he'd get less than 20mins a game. JT would play around 5-8mins with the backups and play around 15mins with Cuz.

I know it would be a reach to force someone like Upshaw to play heavy minutes though. WCS would probably do much better.

I'm sorry I killed this thread with my "unrealstic" options.

Discussion is still good - when you really start to sift through options, you realize, there aren't that many. And realistic option is to get 2-3 more decent/solid vets to provide depth/patch small holes. So people expecting significant upgrades at PF/SG will most likely be disappointed. It's not just "we have money and role for you - come over and play", good players look for situations too. And there's additional hurdle - eastern teams have a bit of unfair advantage in terms of getting to POs - say, if teams like Boston or Detroit offer Danny Green same money, then I don't think he ends up in Sacramento despite Kings being arguably better team.

 

[Amit149]

Yea I picked the Celtics because they're known to want to move up..that team isn't sucky enough to get a top pick, and they're not good enough to be a playoff lock.

Yea in the 1st one I think it just makes our overall bench a lot stronger. You have Collison with Kevin Martin and Justin Anderson. Anderson is another NBA ready player. He's arguably the best defensive guard.
You're banking on a lot of rookies with the 1st one though. All 3 players have been in college for at least/over 3 years and I think they're a lot more pro ready than everyone else.

I think Middleton can be a superstar in the making. He's the best defensive SG in the NBA already.


I don't think the 2nd one is a bad deal for NO. Look at it from their perspective, would I rather have 3 players vs 1 injured player? Ben is a young player with a ton of upside. He might able to fill their SG need and kick Gordon to the curb next year. Ray is a decent back up PG. Landry gives them more scoring. It's arguable that the team is better without holiday. He's only played like 35 last season and 37 this season. I don't think its a bad deal for NO at all considering all 3 players they're getting will be at least able to contribute somewhere. And they get Ben.

Yea I think if we offer Green enough money, it'll make the Spurs hesitate a bit. I can kind of see Green taking less money to stay with the Spurs, but if he wants to be paid and have a bigger role, he can come here. I think he'd be our 3rd best player and we'd feature him a lot in our offense.

I really think Danny Green wants it's payday, it's not like he's a vet that have had most of his earnings- this is going to be his first big contract so I don't see him compromising (I think that the decisions of Duncan, Manu and Pop about retirement can play a big part).

What you said about Bucks fans thinking Middleton is not worth over 12 mil is interesting though I'm not sure that the management will see eye to eye with them.

If we can get one of Danny Green, Khris Middleton and DeMarre Carrol in FA that would be amazing (though i'm pessimistic about it).

 

[randymoss1881]

AGAIN can we not include any restricted FA every offer will be matched.

 

[KingsCitizen]

Looking at what's available in the draft, I am really intrigued of having a really tall stretch 4 or 5 next to Cousins and bring back the old school twin tower.
I have suffered so many years supporting Sacramento while they keep fielding undersized PF and C.
I know the game has changed and it's not only all about the big guys anymore. But the recent influx of big men during the last 2 draft and the coming could stir that up.
So I hope we ready our selves with someone really to fit it nicely next to DMC as a starter.

If guys like Porzingis or Kaminsky bring enough during the workouts to be labeled as potential starters in the NBA, I hope we pick either of these kids.
Rudy has played terrific at times as 4 and Karl and Rudy has been quite open on that option so I think we can still play with teams with quicker 4.

 

[twslam07]

AGAIN can we not include any restricted FA every offer will be matched.

This is totally false.

Are we going to match any offer sheet for Derrick Williams? I'm pretty confident in saying we won't match any offer sheet for our restricted free agent, so can we please stop dealing in absolutes by saying "every offer will be matched?"

This is really only true for high end free agents who are restricted free agents (e.g., Leonard, Butler, Middleton, etc.)

On another note, it just so happens that teams might need cap space this year to go after another big name free agent. Therefore, they might not be willing to match an offer sheet. In my case, I suggested going after Joseph. I suggested it not only because I think he would be a good PG to add, but I think he is very obtainable.

It's been rumored that San Antonio is very interested in Gasol. Well right now they have a lot of cap holds in place for Duncan, Ginobli, Green, Leonard, Joseph, Baynes, Bonner, & their 1st round pick. It puts their total payroll at $88 mil. However, if they renounce Duncan, Ginobli, Baynes, and Bonner, they will have $9.9 mil in cap space. That's obviously not enough to bring Gasol aboard, so they'll need to renounce either Green or Joseph to make more room. If they renounce Joseph, they'll have approximately $14.7 mil in cap space which would result in them making a $62.9 mil offer over 4 years (approx $15.7 per year). I personally think Gasol might command a bigger deal, but maybe he agrees to it since they're the spurs.

If they renounce Green, their cap space would be $17 mil which would result in them being able to make a max offer of $72.8 over 4 years (approx $18.2 mil per year). That seems more along the lines of what he would be demanding. However, Green is a key player to their team. I think they would rather renounce or sign and trade Joseph for a future pick/rookie contract player and then also look to move Mills for a pick or rookie contract player to help make more space. For example, McCallum and a pick for Joseph would give them at least some return while also freeing up cap space. Then they could dump Mills for a pick to help with the extra cap space.

PG - Parker/McCallum
SG - Green
SF - Leonard/Anderson
PF - Splitter/Diaw
C - Gasol
*1st round pick
**2nd round pick
***Pick for Mills
****Future pick for Joseph

So as you can see if the Spurs are serious about going after Gasol then they'll have to make some hard decisions in regards to who to renounce. I'm more inclined that they would let go Joseph when they already have Parker and Mills signed versus their highly sought after 3 and D SG.

It's scenarios like these that you have to be mindful of rather than being lazy and simply saying that "every offer will be matched."

 

[randymoss1881]

This is totally false.

Are we going to match any offer sheet for Derrick Williams? I'm pretty confident in saying we won't match any offer sheet for our restricted free agent, so can we please stop dealing in absolutes by saying "every offer will be matched?"

This is really only true for high end free agents who are restricted free agents (e.g., Leonard, Butler, Middleton, etc.)

On another note, it just so happens that teams might need cap space this year to go after another big name free agent. Therefore, they might not be willing to match an offer sheet. In my case, I suggested going after Joseph. I suggested it not only because I think he would be a good PG to add, but I think he is very obtainable.

It's been rumored that San Antonio is very interested in Gasol. Well right now they have a lot of cap holds in place for Duncan, Ginobli, Green, Leonard, Joseph, Baynes, Bonner, & their 1st round pick. It puts their total payroll at $88 mil. However, if they renounce Duncan, Ginobli, Baynes, and Bonner, they will have $9.9 mil in cap space. That's obviously not enough to bring Gasol aboard, so they'll need to renounce either Green or Joseph to make more room. If they renounce Joseph, they'll have approximately $14.7 mil in cap space which would result in them making a $62.9 mil offer over 4 years (approx $15.7 per year). I personally think Gasol might command a bigger deal, but maybe he agrees to it since they're the spurs.

If they renounce Green, their cap space would be $17 mil which would result in them being able to make a max offer of $72.8 over 4 years (approx $18.2 mil per year). That seems more along the lines of what he would be demanding. However, Green is a key player to their team. I think they would rather renounce or sign and trade Joseph for a future pick/rookie contract player and then also look to move Mills for a pick or rookie contract player to help make more space. For example, McCallum and a pick for Joseph would give them at least some return while also freeing up cap space. Then they could dump Mills for a pick to help with the extra cap space.

PG - Parker/McCallum
SG - Green
SF - Leonard/Anderson
PF - Splitter/Diaw
C - Gasol
*1st round pick
**2nd round pick
***Pick for Mills
****Future pick for Joseph

So as you can see if the Spurs are serious about going after Gasol then they'll have to make some hard decisions in regards to who to renounce. I'm more inclined that they would let go Joseph when they already have Parker and Mills signed versus their highly sought after 3 and D SG.

It's scenarios like these that you have to be mindful of rather than being lazy and simply saying that "every offer will be matched."

I've seen guys throw these names out that's why I'm saying be realistic.

Where are you getting the spurs cap? Hoopshype hast them at 33mill next year so they would have 30mill open 32 if they draft a stash pick. That's enough for both Gosal/Leonard

 

[twslam07]

I've seen guys throw these names out that's why I'm saying be realistic.

Where are you getting the spurs cap? Hoopshype hast them at 33mill next year so they would have 30mill open 32 if they draft a stash pick. That's enough for both Gosal/Leonard

That cap figure is if they renounce all of their FAs (even their restricted free agents). However, like I mentioned, Duncan, Ginobli, Green, Leonard, Joseph, Baynes, Bonner, and their 1st round pick have cap holds that take up their cap room and then some. They can renounce some of these FAs therefore removing the cap hold (which will give them cap space to go after FAs, but if you renounce them, you can't go over your cap to resign them (also known as giving up their bird rights).

In my scenario, if they renounce Duncan, Ginobli, Joseph, Baynes, & Bonner, they'll have $14.7 mil in cap space to work with:

Parker - $13.4 mil
Splitter - $8.5 mil
Green - $7.6 mil (Cap Hold - 190% of the previous year's salary)
Leonard - $7.6 mil (Cap Hold - 250% of the previous year's salary)
Diaw - $7.5 mil
Mills - $3.2 mil
Anderson - $1.1 mil
2015 1st Rounder Cap Hold (24th pick) - $826k
Undrafted Rookie Cap Hold - $525k
Undrafted Rookie Cap Hold - $525k
Undrafted Rookie Cap Hold - $525k
Undrafted Rookie Cap Hold - $525k
Total Payroll = $51,987,432
Salary Cap = $67,400,000
Cap Space = $14,712,568

**They must have 12 roster spots accounted for at all times. That's why there are 4 undrafted rookie cap holds included.

 

[Gilles]

This salary configuration means, Spurs will have to make decisions on Ginobili, Baynes, Green and Joseph before signing Gasol - I assume, Tim retires, if Spurs go after Gasol, otherwise he will have to re-sign for minimum.

 

[twslam07]

This salary configuration means, Spurs will have to make decisions on Ginobili, Baynes, Green and Joseph before signing Gasol - I assume, Tim retires, if Spurs go after Gasol, otherwise he will have to re-sign for minimum.

Precisely. It'll be interesting to see what they do. From a business point of view, I think it makes sense to renounce both Duncan and Ginobli, but they mean so much to their franchise. It seems a little cold if they were to renounce them only to use all the cap space they have on another big time free agent. If you're the Spurs, you kind of just hope both of them retire so you can move on to the next era.