Ratliff to Kings for Big Nasty+OTag?

[CruzDude]

Found this on a Portland board discussion:

Woud you guys do this trade?

Kings Get:
Theo Ratliff

Blazers Get:
Corliss Williamson
Greg Ostertag (expiring contract)


Ratliff and Williamson both have pretty large contracts so we could exchange them, also you guys get an expiring contract and a big body in Ostertag

The feedback was neutral to negative but went on for awhile then....

Interesting but feel we would have to give up a younger guy as well.

 

[SLAB]

In a second.

It definatly doesn't help us get any younger, but when you can pick up one of the better shot blockers in the league for Corliss (Undersized/I don't think he fit our style of play) and Tag (Didn't work out) I think you have to jump at the chance.

Slide Brad over to the 4, and you have.

Bibby/Bobby
Martin/Cisco
Peja/Evans, maybe
Miller/K-9/Skinner
Ratliff/Skinner

I think that makes us a much better team.

 

[Bballkingsrock]

Can you show me teh link? Would like to see what everybody says.

ON the trade, I would only do it if we have more space in teh CAP. If we don't forget and it is not worth it if it is.

 

[PFFFT!!]

Otag would have been waived by GP by now (using the one time exception), so I believe GP is keeping him around for a trade-sweetener. I would definitely do it. Ratliff is a board monster, but wouldn't be a starter for us. I think we could do better.

 

[Bballkingsrock]

But I would use those players on WElls if I had a choice bewteen trading those pieces for Ratliff or WElls.

 

[Diabeticwonder]

Otag would have been waived by GP by now (using the one time exception), so I believe GP is keeping him around for a trade-sweetener. I would definitely do it. Ratliff is a board monster, but wouldn't be a starter for us. I think we could do better.

It would be STUPID to use the one time exemption on Tag and I don't think that it GP ever thought about it for more than 2 seconds. With Ratliff and Brad I would think that Brad might still guard centers on defense, but play the high post (Vlade's spot) on offense.

 

[Bricklayer]

There are probably other things we could get that might be better -- Ratliff is getting old, injury prone and painfully one dimensional.


That said, the one thing he DOES do is the one thing we lack most, so I see potential upside without a lot of downside from such a move aside from opportunity cost (of other trades we could have made instead). Ratliff is potentilly a lot more useful to us than Corliss or Tag (although that depends on whether Tag actually is serious about getting in shape).

 

[PFFFT!!]

It would be STUPID to use the one time exemption on Tag and I don't think that it GP ever thought about it for more than 2 seconds. With Ratliff and Brad I would think that Brad might still guard centers on defense, but play the high post (Vlade's spot) on offense.

Stupid? how about using that cash on some decent free agents out there that can contribute. Granted his contract is fairly cheap, we can add woo the many FA's that are going to have to end up signing for the vet minimum this year with all the waivers and FA's out there and everyones cap room dissappearing. I understand Tag contributed, but his contributions and how Adelman used him just didn't pan out.

 

[Ryle]

Stupid? how about using that cash on some decent free agents out there that can contribute. Granted his contract is fairly cheap, we can add woo the many FA's that are going to have to end up signing for the vet minimum this year with all the waivers and FA's out there and everyones cap room dissappearing. I understand Tag contributed, but his contributions and how Adelman used him just didn't pan out.

You can't waive him and use the money to sign other players.....his contract stays on the books and still counts against the cap and he still gets paid....the only thing it accomplishes by waiving him is that his contract doesn't count when calculating the luxury tax if the Kings have to pay it.

 

[Bricklayer]

Stupid? how about using that cash on some decent free agents out there that can contribute. Granted his contract is fairly cheap, we can add woo the many FA's that are going to have to end up signing for the vet minimum this year with all the waivers and FA's out there and everyones cap room dissappearing. I understand Tag contributed, but his contributions and how Adelman used him just didn't pan out.

He's considerably more valuable as a trade piece. Not even sure if we are going to be over the tax threshold this year, and if we are its not by much. Teams LOVE ending contracts, almost no matter who is involved.

 

[Diabeticwonder]

He's considerably more valuable as a trade piece. Not even sure if we are going to be over the tax threshold this year, and if we are its not by much. Teams LOVE ending contracts, almost no matter who is involved.

The best ending contract trade was when Minny sent Terrell Brandon to Atlanta although Terrell was basically retired and physically was unable to play. The lesson to be learned is that it doesn't really matter if you can play basketball at all, from a skills or physical standpoint...if you have an expiring contract you are very valuable and are wanted by someone.

 

[LA King Fan II]

Ratleff = bibby better on defense, peja better, miller better. Hmmm, can we get Wells, too?

Ratleff
Miller
Peja
Wells
Bibby

If Bibby Miller and Peja really are great players, they'd be getting support to make them contenders.

 

[CaminoChaos]

ratliff = injury

 

[LA King Fan II]

injury = kings. he'll fit right in.

 

[nbrans]

$11,666,666 for the next three years is a LOT of money to pay someone who averaged 4.8 points and 5.3 rebounds last year.

He did average 2.5 blocks per game, which equals roughly $738,339.66 per block.

Why God, why didn't you make me a 6'11" semi-skilled shotblocker????

 

[BobbyJ_for3!]

$11,666,666 for the next three years is a LOT of money to pay someone who averaged 4.8 points and 5.3 rebounds last year.

He did average 2.5 blocks per game, which equals roughly $738,339.66 per block.

Why God, why didn't you make me a 6'11" semi-skilled shotblocker????

lmao...

yea his contract was a big Q for me too...i woudlnt do it...shop corliss+tag somewhere else

 

[hrdboild]

$11,666,666 for the next three years is a LOT of money to pay someone who averaged 4.8 points and 5.3 rebounds last year.

He did average 2.5 blocks per game, which equals roughly $738,339.66 per block.

Why God, why didn't you make me a 6'11" semi-skilled shotblocker????

That's really unfair. Look at the minutes. He definately is one-dimensional but you're insinuating that he only blocks shots because he's 6'11". There's a lot of guys 6'11" or taller in the NBA and none of them block as many shots as Ratliff has over the past 5 years. Look at his career numbers. The guy is an unbelievable shotblocker. It's more than just size.

His contract is huge and that's the only reason this trade is even a question mark. I would still do it because Otag and Corliss were pretty much worthless to us last year. They both could be better this year, but that's far from certain. And neither of them does anything nearly as well as Ratliff blocks shots. I don't think he's really a starter for us (unless we can't get a decent PF) but he's a solid backup. Right now we're overpaying for guys that aren't giving us much. Overpaying for a guy that will actually make a contribution isn't ideal, but it's still an improvement.

 

[ForlornKing]

I'd do it in a second.

averaging 2.5 BLOCKS!!!

We need that desperately.

 

[$-King4Life-$]

Theo would be very good for us. And like someone mentioned it move Brad to 4 and its a helluva team.

 

[Bricklayer]

I'd do it in a second.

averaging 2.5 BLOCKS!!!

We need that desperately.

The problem would be that you gain +2.5blks, but his already marginal skills have deteriorated to the point now where he's a bad rebounder, a terrible offensive player, and you lose in those areas in order to get the blocks. Still, as I said earlier, in our situation if we're going to stick with this "core" then you might have to take some drastic measures to try to make them viable. The next question would then become, would Rick play him? No skill players have a hard time getting minutes in our system.

 

[Alacron]

The problem would be that you gain +2.5blks, but his already marginal skills have deteriorated to the point now where he's a bad rebounder, a terrible offensive player, and you lose in those areas in order to get the blocks. Still, as I said earlier, in our situation if we're going to stick with this "core" then you might have to take some drastic measures to try to make them viable. The next question would then become, would Rick play him? No skill players have a hard time getting minutes in our system.

Exactly, what would Ratliff give us that we don't have in O-Tag? And if Adelman won't play Greg, why would he play Ratliff? And that contract... ugh. At least Tag's expires after this year.
~~

 

[tyrant]

in a heart beat.

 

[CruzDude]

THe more I think about it, isn't Ratliff just a few year older version of Skinner? and Skinner can score the 8-10 we'd like. But Ratliff is a proven commodity.

I donno.... IMHO would rather give Skinner a shot and maybe 25-30 min/game to see what he can deliver and against the best in the west in our style.

 

[Bricklayer]

THe more I think about it, isn't Ratliff just a few year older version of Skinner? and Skinner can score the 8-10 we'd like. But Ratliff is a proven commodity.

I donno.... IMHO would rather give Skinner a shot and maybe 25-30 min/game to see what he can deliver and against the best in the west in our style.

Ratliff is way out of Skinner's league as a shotblocker, but Skinner is actually a little better rounded. Given minutes though, Theo has repeately averaged over 3 blks a game in his career. And not just a spurt like we got form Skinner, but a legit game to game season to season dominance in that aspect. Its the only reason he's in the league. But he does excel at it like maybe nobody else in the NBA right now. If a shotblocker is what you neeeded, and you're not picky about the rest of the game, then there is simply no contest.

 

[Rowdyone]

I look at it this way...how much is it worth to improve your defense inside the key where you've been getting pummeled since before Vlade left? If Theo can average that number of blocks with people knowing he's there and is a shotblocker how many shots, sets or last second plays has he altered by his mere presence and no resulting stat? Bibby complained mightily last year about the lack of help on defense and he should because he needed a lot of help because he would shade his man one direction or the other since he knew he couldn't stay in front of him but then there wouldn't be anyone there to challenge the drive. With Theo Bibby immediately becomes less of a liability. But couldn't we offer Swift the same money or less for more productive years and get the same result for potentially less money?

 

[tyrant]

I look at it this way...how much is it worth to improve your defense inside the key where you've been getting pummeled since before Vlade left? If Theo can average that number of blocks with people knowing he's there and is a shotblocker how many shots, sets or last second plays has he altered by his mere presence and no resulting stat? Bibby complained mightily last year about the lack of help on defense and he should because he needed a lot of help because he would shade his man one direction or the other since he knew he couldn't stay in front of him but then there wouldn't be anyone there to challenge the drive. With Theo Bibby immediately becomes less of a liability. But couldn't we offer Swift the same money or less for more productive years and get the same result for potentially less money?

good point.

 

[thesanityannex]

I look at it this way...how much is it worth to improve your defense inside the key where you've been getting pummeled since before Vlade left? If Theo can average that number of blocks with people knowing he's there and is a shotblocker how many shots, sets or last second plays has he altered by his mere presence and no resulting stat? Bibby complained mightily last year about the lack of help on defense and he should because he needed a lot of help because he would shade his man one direction or the other since he knew he couldn't stay in front of him but then there wouldn't be anyone there to challenge the drive. With Theo Bibby immediately becomes less of a liability. But couldn't we offer Swift the same money or less for more productive years and get the same result for potentially less money?

I believe Swift is signing with the Rockets, and he doesn't block nearly as many shots.

 

[jacobdrj]

I wish. Sheesh, who would be stupid enough to accept that trade. Theo is an AWESOME center.

Found this on a Portland board discussion:

Woud you guys do this trade?

Kings Get:
Theo Ratliff

Blazers Get:
Corliss Williamson
Greg Ostertag (expiring contract)


Ratliff and Williamson both have pretty large contracts so we could exchange them, also you guys get an expiring contract and a big body in Ostertag

The feedback was neutral to negative but went on for awhile then....

Interesting but feel we would have to give up a younger guy as well.

 

[SacTownKid]

I wish. Sheesh, who would be stupid enough to accept that trade. Theo is an AWESOME center.

Better question is who would be stupid enough to take on that AWSOME contract? Theo is a good player but no one person is the answer to our defensive problems, the problems will still be there, just with a little masking tape holding it together. Any defensive improvements must begin from within the current deligation.

 

[Bibby-4-Three]

Better question is who would be stupid enough to take on that AWSOME contract? Theo is a good player but no one person is the answer to our defensive problems, the problems will still be there, just with a little masking tape holding it together. Any defensive improvements must begin from within the current deligation.

The NBA only allows duct tape.