RA and the Kings this preseason.

deviflux

G-League
I guess I'm lost. Maybe RA is a genius, but I'm kind of confused by his approach.

The Kings go out and get Reef as the replacement for their hole at PF. Yet, spend the entire preseason not getting him legit work with the starters. So, that's going to hurt Reef (and the teams) gel time during the regular season.

Granted, Reef might not start ... which is my next point ... How could you NOT start Shareef? Kenny is a servicable player. But, he's 6'7". He'll get thumped by the PFs in the west - especially in the playoffs. He's also duplicating the skills of every other player on the court. How many jump shooters that can't create off the dribble do you need on the court? You've got Peja, you've got Miller, you've got Kenny. For the most part Bonzi can create and Bibby can create (although he's not shown it this preseason). Reef is the biggest threat with the ball on the court at any point in time. He can score it from outside, inside and pass with the best on the team.

Next point - for a coach that is "anti" the quick shot ... he sure let's his guys get away with it. It's sickening to watch Peja jack up a three from 5 steps behind the three point line ... with a hand in his face ... with 15 seconds on the shot clock. This team is settling for shots they can get at any point in time and at any point in the shot clock. He needs to clamp down on it, but it is being done more and more rather than less and less.

Which brings me to the next issue I have -- this team needs to quit running all the time. The dynamics have changed and they have two players that can draw doubles in the post. These two players, while not King mainstays from the past, are easily just as talented. When I've watched this preseason the players that stimulate ball movement in the halfcourt sets are Bonzi and Reef. Where is our vaunted passing? Why are we barfing up dumb shots?

I also have to say this - I just think the team needs to reevaluate the options on offense. Reef may not have led crap teams to the playoffs ... but he's the most efficient scorer on the floor. He gets the opponents into foul trouble, he draws doubles and can find the open man, he can score on almost anyone. I don't see how letting Peja jack up crud is a better option.

I'm thinking the shots per game should range something like this - for the most part:

Bibby: 8-10
Who needs a scoring PG when you have 4 other players who can score? They are all good jump shooters. We just don't need the PG doing anything more than initiating the offense.
Miller: 10-11
Miller is a great player, but not a guy that is accustomed to taking a high volume of shots. He gets his by being at the right place, and forcing him to take shots would be a mistake, I think.
Bonzi: 10 - 12
He's going to take his fair share of shots, and if they are smart, I'm cool. He's a good player.
Peja: 15-17
He is one of the best shooters in the league, but isn't very good when trying to create that shot for himself. He ends up puking up a LOT of dumb shots. For maximum efficiency ... let's get his feet set and allow Reef/Bonzi to draw that double and let Peja stand wide open.
Reef: 16-18
I think this guy should be the focal point of the offense. He is capable of stepping in for Webber. He may not become the same player as Webber, but he can handle close to that load.
 
I would give my reason for this but people would call me an Adelman hater and then give me the :rolleyes: icon telling me I don't know what I am talking about because Adelman is the best coach in the world.

There is a reason why we keep having the same problems and you can check my posts for about the last 2 years to get my opinion.
 
deviflux said:
Reef: 16-18
I think this guy should be the focal point of the offense. He is capable of stepping in for Webber. He may not become the same player as Webber, but he can handle close to that load.

Reef was not/ is not/ and NEVER will be able to step into the shoes of CWeb. In fact the only thing they might have in common one day is the knee injury
 
Abdur Rahim is a more intelligent player than C-Webb.
 
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Coach said:
Abdur Rahim is a more intelligent player than C-Webb.

no he is not.

His ego might not get in the way of things but we are talking about pre injury Webber and not that "handicaped" guy that we traded last season
 
Adleman supporter or not . . .

WHO BETTER IS AN AVAILABLE OPTION? I SEE NO REASON TO REPLACE UNLESS IT IS WITH AN UPGRADE. I do not see anyone better to take the team.
 
chelle said:
Adleman supporter or not . . .

WHO BETTER IS AN AVAILABLE OPTION? I SEE NO REASON TO REPLACE UNLESS IT IS WITH AN UPGRADE. I do not see anyone better to take the team.

That's an old argument and not necessarily a ringing endorsement of your coach. We are not going to replace him now and hopefully the Maloofs will let him play out his contract without extending it this year. Make him earn an extension and not just hand it to him like they did last year.

At least hold him accountable so hopefully he holds his players accountable for their actions which he never has done in the past.
 
I agree that Webber was a much better player pre-injury than he is now. However the current Webber is in the same class as Antoine Walker and J-Will: talented players who have no clue about how to play intelligent, efficient basketball. Abdur Rahim is not as versatile as Webber, but he is a much more efficient scorer and does not take dumb shots.

Regarding Adelman, he needs to assign roles to this team. It would be awful if every player believes he has carte blanche to jack up as many shots as possible. Unfortunately, in the preseason that appears to be the trend. But maybe (hopefully?) coach is still determining what each person can bring to the table.
 
Interesting takes .....

Smart ???
Ability ???
Pre-injury ???
Post-injury ???

... physical limitations & age .... hummmmm
 
I happen to think he is a very good coach.

IMHO he gets more out of his teams than should be expected. His qualifications speak for themselves. I was not trying to defend or support him in my previous post. I was just wondering what suggestions those who are unhappy with him have as his replacement. With players, we tend to say that so-and-so would be great to have as a trade for certain players.

He DID earn his extension last year.
 
one thing for sure is that rahim is better on the defensive end than the injured webber. his rebounds worry me however.
 
piksi said:
Reef was not/ is not/ and NEVER will be able to step into the shoes of CWeb. In fact the only thing they might have in common one day is the knee injury

Reef never got 18-20 shots a game either. He's just as efficient a scorer as Webber ever was.

He's not as good of a rebounder.

He's on the smae level on passing. Remember - Webber wasn't considered a good passer when he came to Sacramento.

Also - remember that Webber had the mystique of being a "loser" too.

Webber is one of the greats, but Reef isn't far off ... and given the right chance ... I think he can do similar things.
 
While your complains about RA seem reseaonable to me, he still has a very good winning record. I mean whatever it is that he is doing, right or wrong, he gets us to the playoff.

On the shots per game, I don't think anyone can predict that. It is a split decision made on the court and not off the court.
 
tyrant said:
one thing for sure is that rahim is better on the defensive end than the injured webber. his rebounds worry me however.

Don't fret about the rebounds.

You'll notice that while Reef may not clean every board, he is very fundamental and gets a body on someone. He lets a teammate clean up ... which, in truth, is the proper way to rebound.

You block your man out and if the board comes to you, get it ... but don't make yourself skinny by skying for every board.
 
chelle said:
Adleman supporter or not . . .

WHO BETTER IS AN AVAILABLE OPTION? I SEE NO REASON TO REPLACE UNLESS IT IS WITH AN UPGRADE. I do not see anyone better to take the team.

I'm not knocking Adleman. I just can't figure out where he's going with this squad.
 
Coach said:
Regarding Adelman, he needs to assign roles to this team. It would be awful if every player believes he has carte blanche to jack up as many shots as possible. Unfortunately, in the preseason that appears to be the trend. But maybe (hopefully?) coach is still determining what each person can bring to the table.

That's what my fear is.

Coming out of preseason - I don't see an identity. Peja is jacking up garbage. Bibby looks lost. But, everyone other than Bonzi and Reef seem to be just straight chucking.

Based on how they played in the preseason - my roster would be:

PG - Hart
SG - Bonzi
SF - Thomas
PF - Reef
C - Miller

Of course, you don't do that ... but the "big three" that everyone harps on and on about looked worse than ANYONE else on the team.
 
quick dog said:
The seaon has not started yet. Rahim will get minutes.

I'm not talking about minutes.

I'm talking system and speed. We are jacking up shots as if holding the ball is going to kill us.

We need to realize our strengths in the post right now. Reef/Bonzi from 8' is far more efficient than Bibby/Peja from 20'. Also, feeding the post opens the game for Peja and Bibby.
 
This thread is getting surreal. I mean I am actually on CWeb's side. The worst part is - I am not on anything
 
deviflux said:
That's what my fear is.

Coming out of preseason - I don't see an identity. Peja is jacking up garbage. Bibby looks lost. But, everyone other than Bonzi and Reef seem to be just straight chucking.

Based on how they played in the preseason - my roster would be:

PG - Hart
SG - Bonzi
SF - Thomas
PF - Reef
C - Miller

Of course, you don't do that ... but the "big three" that everyone harps on and on about looked worse than ANYONE else on the team.

Although I like the backcourt of Bonzi and Hart from a toughness/defense standpoint I think this team would get killed because all teams would do would be to stack the paint and force Hart and Bonzi to chuck it up from the outside which they aren't very good at.
 
Ryle said:
Although I like the backcourt of Bonzi and Hart from a toughness/defense standpoint I think this team would get killed because all teams would do would be to stack the paint and force Hart and Bonzi to chuck it up from the outside which they aren't very good at.

Agreed.

I wasn't saying this is the team they should field. But, based on effort and performance ... and trying to take shots within the system and within themselves ... these guys earned it.
 
deviflux said:
Agreed.

I wasn't saying this is the team they should field. But, based on effort and performance ... and trying to take shots within the system and within themselves ... these guys earned it.

The system is made for Peja and Bibby and Brad to take shots, they are the offense. Miller and Peja haven't shot too terribly during the preseason, Bibby has been of though. Maybe they haven't earned in the preseason, they have over the last 2-7 years so I'll give them some time to get things going.
 
allrightythen said:
The system is made for Peja and Bibby and Brad to take shots, they are the offense.

They USED to be the offense.

The new guys are just as good, if not, better than the current "big 3".

Miller and Peja haven't shot too terribly during the preseason, Bibby has been of though. Maybe they haven't earned in the preseason, they have over the last 2-7 years so I'll give them some time to get things going.

Peja is shooting sub-40%.

Miller has played decently.

I'm not advocating taking them out of the lineup. That's stupid. But, the style of basketball HAS to change in order for the Kings to be successful. They have a half-court team, but are playing like the ball must be shot the moment you touch it.
 
ski said:
Last I checked, the Kings record is 0-0. A little soon to start criticizing the coach I think.

No, it isn't.

These are the things I've noticed. I'm not calling for his head, or saying he's an idiot. I think these are things that I worry about and notice.
 
deviflux said:
I'm not knocking Adleman. I just can't figure out where he's going with this squad.

Nor can I, but people always talk about these things as if in the NBA the coach has 100% control of every shot a player takes. This isn't computer basketball. These guys have talent and healthy egos to go with it. They are NOT going to sit back and take 10 shots a game no matter what you tell them. And if you bench them -- oh boy. NOBODY does that, both because of talent and the inevitable locker room meltdown. Not possible in the NBA with egos and money. Pointing the gun at the coach who is handed a huge stack of players who ALL like to shoot, have been shooting their whole lives, and have always let the other guys do all the dirty work is just ridiculous. You want to point a finger, point it at the GM who assembled a team full of guys who need shots to be happy. And people trying to go a step further and claim that these are the same problems we have always had have lost all perspective. We've been the best offensive team in basketball for 7 years now. The most efficient. The most unselfish. I am again struck by the overwhelming impression that people who don't appreciate what we've had simply do not watch very much NBA basketball to see just how bad it can be.

Now things have changed. We have lost the personnel who made that all possible. And we have too many guys who want to score. Much like Stan Van Gundy down in Miami, finding a way to divy up roughly 85 shots amongst at least 6 players who would like to take 15+, before we even get to the benchers, is a helluva task. Doing so without a meltdown in team chemistry is herculean, and Rick is one of the ONLY coaches in the NBA who has shown he even has a chance to pull it off. He's alreayd got guys unselfishly passing who have never really passed before. What he needs now is a little help from his GM cleaning up the scoring mess and getting some guys who not only will accept roles, but excel at them.

Camp so far has been a muddle. But we've got exactly three guys who have been here longer than a year. That's remarkable. Compete rebuillding. I agree the Reef/KT thing is stupid. I have a feeling its being done to placate KTs ego, and I'm tired of that game (of course its also true that if Reef does not grow a pair and start rebounding, we can't play him big minutes without being screwed). But the fact is its preseason, and that's what these games are for. I find it amusing that Rick, who is traditionally bashed for playing his main guys too MANY minutes, would now be bashed for using his bench too much, in the preseason of all things. If he is still ****ing around like this two weeks into the season, get back to me. The interesting moment is not now, but once the action starts and Rick starts making decisions and people find themselves riding pine. It HAS to be done, as the complaint here seems to be. But when it does, potential trouble brews. Which will then magically become Rick's fault again even though he has done exactly what we say he had to do.
 
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deviflux said:
They USED to be the offense.

The new guys are just as good, if not, better than the current "big 3".



Peja is shooting sub-40%.

Miller has played decently.

I'm not advocating taking them out of the lineup. That's stupid. But, the style of basketball HAS to change in order for the Kings to be successful. They have a half-court team, but are playing like the ball must be shot the moment you touch it.

The current style of play matches their(Bibby/Peja/Brad) talent and ability and offensivley they are the best we have. Bonzi does a lot of things and he can be very effective within the current offensive system as he has shown already. I do agree that with the current group of guys we can do more from the post and that will free up Bibby/Peja even more for the jumpers. I would like to see more of that, but I'm not for whole-sale changes.

I'm curious as to how much does Bibby have to do to prove his worth? How many games has he won for the Kings over the past few years? He is obviously in a little bit of a slump, but I am superbly confident that it will not last all that long. I realize Bibby has been shooting poorly this preseason, but are we ignoring the previous 7 years of very good shooting, based on a 7 game slump?

The difference between the returning guys and the new ones is that the new ones are one-on-one players, they can do what they do regardless of the system or who else is on the floor. The returnees excel largely in the "system" and are(IMO) still adjusting to all the changes in the personell around them so I'm still for giving them some time.
 
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allrightythen said:
The current style of play matches their(Bibby/Peja/Brad) talent and ability and offensivley they are the best we have.

I disagree, wholeheartedly.

First, this style of play matches ONE player. Peja. He doesn't care. He'll jack it from anywhere at anytime. He's the 'king' of stupid shots. Luckily for him ... he's good.

Miller is a spot up shooter. He's not a fast break guy nor a dish it to me on the run so I can fire a three kind of guy. He's better in the slower, more organized game. All his points this preseason have come from an open pass to him in the slowed-down halfcourt set.

Bibby excels at setting up the halfcourt offense.

Next, I think Shareef is easily as good offensively as any of the players up there. He's also a half-court player.

Bonzi isn't as talented as the above, but he's a halfcourt player.

I'm not saying they need to change wholesale. But, they NEED to utilize the post. You just won't have longterm success from the outside in. You need to feed the post. Both Bonzi and Reef have shown that they can pass from that location. You need to utilize it.
 
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