Quality analysis on Bagley's Summer League

[dude12]

Ben is the only rookie who we've thrown into the fire with his 26.7 mins, however, we've never played other rookies "lots of minutes". Jimmer played 18.6mpg in his rookie year. T-Rob played 16mpg. Stauskas played 15.4mpg. Willie with 21.4mpg. Papagiannis 0mpg(didn't play at all until tanking time). Richardson 9mpg.

Seems to me like most of our approaches have been slower...and none of them have panned out except for Willie.

I don't think Fox benefited from being brought in slowly. We tried to shield him the best we could... that was hiding him in matchups. Forcing him to play behind George Hill. Taking the ball out of his hands as the 2nd fiddle. Buddy is a 2nd year player, yet he was also given the "low minutes treatment". We all know how well that went.

These kids are our future. We need to see what they can do and see what we have in them. Who cares if they struggle? All you need to see is the potential there. Ingram was a freaking stick coming into the NBA at 18/19yearsold 6'9 180lbs. They gave him 28.8mpg in his rookie year. He didn't put up great numbers: 9.4pts 4rebs 2.1asts 40.2/29.4/62.1. He looked physically overhwelmed and outmatched in the NBA. Even with those negatives, you could see that he was a special talent.

The Kings are going to stop this babysitting BS. Joerger already said so with the training wheels comment. This is the NBA now.

See my other post.....Fox played the 8th most minutes for a rookie. What is this babysitting stuff you and a few others are talking about?

 

[ESP47]

Dude, remember how we played McLemore and other guys like that lots of minutes? How did that turn out? We have a staff that is showing it can develop young players. Whatever Joerger decides on how to bring these guys along, I support him.

McLemore is just a bad basketball player. The Kings didn't do anything to mess his development up. If anything they gave him every shot in the world and he couldn't step up. I don't fault the Kings at all for not developing that crop of rookies. I fault them for drafting them but it's not like any of them have gone on to do better things outside of the Kings organization.

 

[Sac.Kings]

There are some of those on the board, but I think they are a minority.

As for me, De’aaron looked a franchise PG in his game, Giles, aside from some athleticism stop/go issues looked very skilled and I think will be a good player, Gabriel looked a possible diamond in the rough. I consider myself just a objectionist, and not a negativist, and most of the negativity I’ve seen hasn’t been of a trolling nature, but concern for the objectively worst tip pick performance in the field (per professional opinion)

I’m not sure about this being a party, or a forum to discuss a team where questionable things keep happening. “There is negativity because the team is negative”

I didn’t want to offend, or touch upon forum rules, but, IMO if I created a third party poll among NBA fans about whether or not a fan should be concerned about taking Bagley 2 after his SL performance I think the results would be different than on here. I didn’t like being isolated on that. Nor do I feel I’m in the minority despite those two threads. I think there are a lot of positive fans here (not that that is a bad thing)

Any forthright sentiment I have on Bagley is not to bring the forum down, but because I feel let down as a fan. After a decade of misses in the draft, and the standard you have for a number 2 in your mind.. a certain anger comes into it for many fans to see it again

I really think you've taken overreacting to a completely new and almost delusional level. You are too easily influenced by the outside world and their opinions on things. These "experts" that write on the NBA are usually wrong and are typically a complete and utter joke. You are allowing yourself to be disappointed by 4 meaningless games (2 of which he did decently well in, just his shot was not falling) and 2 that he was rotten in. Ben Mclemore once scored 26 points in a summer league game and looked absolutely great, and it did not help him at all in his career did it? Anthony Randolph averaged 27 a game in summer league and he was out of the NBA real quick wasn't he? For every player that played well in summer league and it translated to the NBA, I can find 3 players who were never able to do that.

All I am saying is to allow Bagley the right to showcase himself in actual games, with teammates who are worthy of being on an NBA roster. I would also urge you to look at some of the positive things Bagley did (there are positive things I assure you) and to not only focus on the bad things. You are reading so much into these 4 games that you're missing the forest for the trees.

 

[sterö]

Quality analysis of that video: Poor

 

[Livinthedream]

I am genuinely baffled by the negativity towards Bagley. Kid hasn't even played an NBA preseason game yet, let alone a season. Just because he isn't the player that you personally wanted drafted, doesn't automatically make him a bust or a project.

This "Quality Analysis" of 3 1/2 games is literally just an analysis of 3 1/2 glorified pickup games. Meaningless as far as a career goes.

 

[ppine]

There's a big difference between picking #2 and #5... oh and DONCIC who's already NBA ready and fills a need for this team. Being picked at #2 means you should have the franchise weight on your shoulders. There would've been the same expectations if we had drafted Doncic. Idk, at some point, we have to stop babying our draft prospects. However, Bagley is really young, so he get's a pass for his rookie year, but the expectations are completely rational especially in this very talented draft.

All logical fans knew WCS was a high level role player at best. That's not the same expectation for Bagley..who in theory, should be a bluechip prospect.

The last line makes no sense. A player selected at #5 is known by all logical fans to be a role player, but a player #2 is a bluechip prospect. Maybe you have forgotten about an all-pro like IT selected last in the draft and had votes for MVP one year. Great players come from the first round and second round not just the top 10.

 

[iowamcnabb]

I am genuinely baffled by the negativity towards Bagley. Kid hasn't even played an NBA preseason game yet, let alone a season.

I think it's genuine concern more than negativity. 99 percent of Kings fans want him to succeed even if he wasn't the preferred pick.

He looked bad imo but I almost wonder if it wasn't a bit of shock that threw him off. He probably has never played a game he didn't totally dominate. I look forward to him proving the doubters wrong (including myself)

 

[206Fan]

The last line makes no sense. A player selected at #5 is known by all logical fans to be a role player, but a player #2 is a bluechip prospect. Maybe you have forgotten about an all-pro like IT selected last in the draft and had votes for MVP one year. Great players come from the first round and second round not just the top 10.

EVERYONE knew WCS was drafted to be a role player. Did you not follow the 2015 draft at all?

Bagley was drafted to be a potential franchise player.

come on.

 

[VF21]

I think it's genuine concern more than negativity. 99 percent of Kings fans want him to succeed even if he wasn't the preferred pick.

He looked bad imo but I almost wonder if it wasn't a bit of shock that threw him off. He probably has never played a game he didn't totally dominate. I look forward to him proving the doubters wrong (including myself)

No, unfortunately, there are some who are so upset about passing on Doncic that they will only be happy if Bagley fails.

 

[Kingsfan23]

No, unfortunately, there are some who are so upset about passing on Doncic that they will only be happy if Bagley fails.

Who? There are people who want Bagley to fail? Which posters and where are you referring?

It’s normal for anyone to have genuine concern over Bagley given his summer league. IMO it’s not genuine to not have concern over him

It was an important decision. It will be talked about for the next 5 years either way, and jobs will depend on it.

Given the importance of the decision, I’m sure some Doncic believers will certainly have animosity if the decision doesn’t work out (whoever they are). Doncic is a polarizing prospect but some see him as a generational type

 

[VF21]

Who? There are people who want Bagley to fail? Which posters and where are you referring?

It’s normal for anyone to have genuine concern over Bagley given his summer league. IMO it’s not genuine to not have concern over him

It was an important decision. It will be talked about for the next 5 years either way, and jobs will depend on it.

Given the importance of the decision, I’m sure some Doncic believers will certainly have animosity if the decision doesn’t work out (whoever they are). Doncic is a polarizing prospect but some see him as a generational type

You really need to start charging me rent. I wasn't referring to you. I don't intend to name names. If I did, I would have done so.

I get it. You're beyond obsessed with Bagley's performance in SL. I've quit commenting about that because, in all honesty, I think it's kind of sad.

 

[jcwkings]

I am genuinely baffled by the negativity towards Bagley. Kid hasn't even played an NBA preseason game yet, let alone a season. Just because he isn't the player that you personally wanted drafted, doesn't automatically make him a bust or a project.

This "Quality Analysis" of 3 1/2 games is literally just an analysis of 3 1/2 glorified pickup games. Meaningless as far as a career goes.

Well you can't hype Harry Giles as the second coming based on what he showed in Summerleague and then go on to dismiss Bagley's struggles, can't have it both ways. No one is saying Bagley is a complete bust but just pointing out clear weaknesses in his game that were as clear as day, regardless of competition level. Harry Giles looked very good on multiple levels. Marvin Bagley looked like an energetic athelte who doesn't know how to play basketball, yet.

 

[Joshoua]

Well you can't hype Harry Giles as the second coming based on what he showed in Summerleague and then go on to dismiss Bagley's struggles, can't have it both ways. No one is saying Bagley is a complete bust but just pointing out clear weaknesses in his game that were as clear as day, regardless of competition level. Harry Giles looked very good on multiple levels. Marvin Bagley looked like an energetic athelte who doesn't know how to play basketball, yet.

Exactly what I was saying can’t have it both ways. Bagley couldn’t even get position on that SF from Miami how the hell is he gonna produce as a scorer then. Especially when you combine that with his lack of post skills, Giles showed way more post lives than Bagley and Bagley was the alleged scorer

 

[Kingsfan23]

I think ultimately, the issue is, if you went through the annals of all star caliber bigs, and that’s what Bagley’s draft night expectation was, I think it would be unlikely that many of them would have made the first impression with question marks that Bagley did in SL. That’s the issue.

How much stock you put into a series of games; whether you think trajectories are made, or it’s just a few pick up games, the first paragraph remains.

It’s a tough thing, because a lot of the franchise’s immediate success could depend on it. For me, I like Fox, Buddy/Bogdan (starting together), JJ, and think at least one of Giles/Skal/Gabriel/WCS (not high on WCS) can come up. It’s a big gap to have a franchise big or not with that. It’s a big X factor

 

[Livinthedream]

Well you can't hype Harry Giles as the second coming based on what he showed in Summerleague and then go on to dismiss Bagley's struggles, can't have it both ways. No one is saying Bagley is a complete bust but just pointing out clear weaknesses in his game that were as clear as day, regardless of competition level. Harry Giles looked very good on multiple levels. Marvin Bagley looked like an energetic athelte who doesn't know how to play basketball, yet.

All of the 2nd year players on that SL squad looked good. There is a reason for that. A year of NBA ball under their belt. A year of NBA strength conditioning of their bodies. So no, it's not the same thing.

(Masons numbers were decent even though he didn't look great)

 

[allrightythen]

Well you can't hype Harry Giles as the second coming based on what he showed in Summerleague and then go on to dismiss Bagley's struggles, can't have it both ways. No one is saying Bagley is a complete bust but just pointing out clear weaknesses in his game that were as clear as day, regardless of competition level. Harry Giles looked very good on multiple levels. Marvin Bagley looked like an energetic athelte who doesn't know how to play basketball, yet.

I'm not really hyped any more or less on either guy, but it should stand to reason that Giles would look better in SL. He's been practicing with the Kings, in the system, with at least a couple of those SL guys for nearly a season already. He kinda knows where the ball is supposed to go and where he can be to get the best result. Bagley had only practiced a handful of times. Knowing where to be makes it a little easier to show your talent and I think Giles had a sizable advantage in that area.

 

[John Galt]

Man I really think too many people got too geeked up over having the second pick.

Why is it so much more essential to NAIL the second pick than it is to nail the seventh pick?

Looking back the last 10-20 years, how many GM's have nailed the second pick in 20-20 hindsight? It's harder than it looks. The guy who took KD was right. Who else at #2? I look back at the number 2 picks - in the 90's it was pretty easy - lots of really good players on that list. Ever since 2000 it has been damned hard to get a home run at pick #2. really really hard.

Who are we comparing Vlade against when we say if he missed getting the second best player in the draft, he should be gone? Who are the guys who have consistently gotten it right?

I think y'all tripping to hang everything on nailing the #2 pick. Now if Doncic winds up as a hindsight no-brainer, then yeah there should be accountability for passing on him because he was such a strong consensus guy. But if Bagley has to beat the whole rest of the field for Vlade to save his job - that is crazy. Just truly crazy and almost a guarantee of failure. Bamba, Jackson, Young, Carter heck any number of guys could turn out to be better players than Bagley and it doesn't mean Vlade choked.

I liked Bagley's hops and energy and can't wait for this coming season

 

[jcwkings]

Man I really think too many people got too geeked up over having the second pick.

Why is it so much more essential to NAIL the second pick than it is to nail the seventh pick?

Looking back the last 10-20 years, how many GM's have nailed the second pick in 20-20 hindsight? It's harder than it looks. The guy who took KD was right. Who else at #2? I look back at the number 2 picks - in the 90's it was pretty easy - lots of really good players on that list. Ever since 2000 it has been damned hard to get a home run at pick #2. really really hard.

Who are we comparing Vlade against when we say if he missed getting the second best player in the draft, he should be gone? Who are the guys who have consistently gotten it right?

I think y'all tripping to hang everything on nailing the #2 pick. Now if Doncic winds up as a hindsight no-brainer, then yeah there should be accountability for passing on him because he was such a strong consensus guy. But if Bagley has to beat the whole rest of the field for Vlade to save his job - that is crazy. Just truly crazy and almost a guarantee of failure. Bamba, Jackson, Young, Carter heck any number of guys could turn out to be better players than Bagley and it doesn't mean Vlade choked.

I liked Bagley's hops and energy and can't wait for this coming season

The Sacramento Kings have won. They've Stockhomed Sydromed their fans to just accept mediocrity(well worse than that actually).

 

[Agent23]

Who? There are people who want Bagley to fail? Which posters and where are you referring?

It’s normal for anyone to have genuine concern over Bagley given his summer league. IMO it’s not genuine to not have concern over him

It was an important decision. It will be talked about for the next 5 years either way, and jobs will depend on it.

Given the importance of the decision, I’m sure some Doncic believers will certainly have animosity if the decision doesn’t work out (whoever they are). Doncic is a polarizing prospect but some see him as a generational type

Go on twitter and STR. They absolutely want Bagley to fail. They lost their minds over Luka Doncic.

 

[Agent23]

The Sacramento Kings have won. They've Stockhomed Sydromed their fans to just accept mediocrity(well worse than that actually).

No, you just have Doncic-itis.

 

[jcwkings]

No, you just have Doncic-itis.

Right, and that's why I'm still here? You know if I loved Doncic that much I could've turned to a Mavs fan like someone did here when Boogie got traded(is he a Warrior fan now?). IMO they got the pick wrong, and to this point I have no evidence to tell me different. I am completely hopeful Bagley proves me wrong but Doncic IMO was a franchise changing complete basketball player, those don't come around often, let alone for the Sacramento Kings.

 

[John Galt]

The Sacramento Kings have won. They've Stockhomed Sydromed their fans to just accept mediocrity(well worse than that actually).

that snide comment has literally nothing to do with what I wrote, which included: "Now if Doncic winds up as a hindsight no-brainer, then yeah there should be accountability for passing on him because he was such a strong consensus guy."

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

I am genuinely baffled by the negativity towards Bagley. Kid hasn't even played an NBA preseason game yet, let alone a season. Just because he isn't the player that you personally wanted drafted, doesn't automatically make him a bust or a project.

This "Quality Analysis" of 3 1/2 games is literally just an analysis of 3 1/2 glorified pickup games. Meaningless as far as a career goes.

I don't mind the Bagley pick, but I get why it frustrates a lot of fans.

You have a guy like Doncic who is a proven winner and leader. It's very easy to see him fitting in to basically any teams long term plans and rotation. The guy has a very high basketball IQ and would've filled a major need for us. Plus I know a lot of us have soft spot for blue chip Euro prospects.

So seeing us pass on a guy like that for a raw big man prospect to add to our already large stable of big men, who lacks many of the skills needed for big men in today's NBA, not to mention a complete lack of a right hand whatsoever, is pretty hard to comprehend.

Plus there is the fact that we are all sick of losing, so knowing that the player we drafted is still a long way away from being a solid player, while the one we let get away could probably have started day one doesn't help things.

 

[Blob]

Well you can't hype Harry Giles as the second coming based on what he showed in Summerleague and then go on to dismiss Bagley's struggles, can't have it both ways. No one is saying Bagley is a complete bust but just pointing out clear weaknesses in his game that were as clear as day, regardless of competition level. Harry Giles looked very good on multiple levels. Marvin Bagley looked like an energetic athelte who doesn't know how to play basketball, yet.

So Bagley is a "complete project" and "doesn't know how to play basketball". Your hyperbole is impressive.

 

[Blob]

The Sacramento Kings have won. They've Stockhomed Sydromed their fans to just accept mediocrity(well worse than that actually).

I wanted Bagley before the draft. No one Stockholmed me. The Kings validated my opinion. De'Aaron Fox is an All-Star. Bagley is the perfect complement who set scoring and rebounding records in the ACC at the age of 18. Luka could not beat his man off the bounce, shot 31% from deep and is closer to 6'6 than 6'9. He is also not renowned for his work ethic. What is hard about this to understand?

 

[Section 101]

I don't mind the Bagley pick, but I get why it frustrates a lot of fans.

You have a guy like Doncic who is a proven winner and leader. It's very easy to see him fitting in to basically any teams long term plans and rotation. The guy has a very high basketball IQ and would've filled a major need for us. Plus I know a lot of us have soft spot for blue chip Euro prospects.

So seeing us pass on a guy like that for a raw big man prospect to add to our already large stable of big men, who lacks many of the skills needed for big men in today's NBA, not to mention a complete lack of a right hand whatsoever, is pretty hard to comprehend.

Plus there is the fact that we are all sick of losing, so knowing that the player we drafted is still a long way away from being a solid player, while the one we let get away could probably have started day one doesn't help things.

For me it was the reasoning behind the pick. They have been preaching ball movement and the style they want to play. Then they say they passed on Doncic because they didn't want to take the ball out of Fox's hands when Doncic fits the style.

As for Bagley, if we was the best low post scorer in college last year then the college low post game doesnt exist anymore.

 

[Joshoua]

I don't mind the Bagley pick, but I get why it frustrates a lot of fans.

You have a guy like Doncic who is a proven winner and leader. It's very easy to see him fitting in to basically any teams long term plans and rotation. The guy has a very high basketball IQ and would've filled a major need for us. Plus I know a lot of us have soft spot for blue chip Euro prospects.

So seeing us pass on a guy like that for a raw big man prospect to add to our already large stable of big men, who lacks many of the skills needed for big men in today's NBA, not to mention a complete lack of a right hand whatsoever, is pretty hard to comprehend.

Plus there is the fact that we are all sick of losing, so knowing that the player we drafted is still a long way away from being a solid player, while the one we let get away could probably have started day one doesn't help things.

To add they told anybody who could listen that Giles was the truth, which I believe now. So adding another PF especially with a broken shot doesn’t do Fox or Giles any good.

 

[sactowndog]

that snide comment has literally nothing to do with what I wrote, which included: "Now if Doncic winds up as a hindsight no-brainer, then yeah there should be accountability for passing on him because he was such a strong consensus guy."

Shouldn’t the GM have accountability regardless if the pick is the consensus pick or not?

 

[sactowndog]

To add they told anybody who could listen that Giles was the truth, which I believe now. So adding another PF especially with a broken shot doesn’t do Fox or Giles any good.

Not sure they envision Bagley as a power forward and Giles is a center.

 

[Kingsfan23]

Man I really think too many people got too geeked up over having the second pick.

Why is it so much more essential to NAIL the second pick than it is to nail the seventh pick?

Looking back the last 10-20 years, how many GM's have nailed the second pick in 20-20 hindsight? It's harder than it looks. The guy who took KD was right. Who else at #2? I look back at the number 2 picks - in the 90's it was pretty easy - lots of really good players on that list. Ever since 2000 it has been damned hard to get a home run at pick #2. really really hard.

Who are we comparing Vlade against when we say if he missed getting the second best player in the draft, he should be gone? Who are the guys who have consistently gotten it right?

I think y'all tripping to hang everything on nailing the #2 pick. Now if Doncic winds up as a hindsight no-brainer, then yeah there should be accountability for passing on him because he was such a strong consensus guy. But if Bagley has to beat the whole rest of the field for Vlade to save his job - that is crazy. Just truly crazy and almost a guarantee of failure. Bamba, Jackson, Young, Carter heck any number of guys could turn out to be better players than Bagley and it doesn't mean Vlade choked.

I liked Bagley's hops and energy and can't wait for this coming season

Actually there is some truth to the history of the second pick and the expectations. Right or wrong, in a strong draft, the conception is the player will be a franchise the guy. The history is true though.

Vlade, who many think’s head is already on the block and needed to get this right for his own security, though, needs to be held accountable if Doncic is a player and/or Bagley is “disappointing” as a pick. Disappointing meaning continuing summer league trajectory or a step below many of the top ten picks. And all the top ten picks looked better than him in SL pretty much