sactowndog
All-Star
yeah those same guys had Patrick Williams in the 20’s and he went 4th and has looked the part. If we can’t be top 5, I hope we are in range to draft Wagner but I fear he will be top 8.
Probable Lottery picks in the 2021 Draft:
- Thread starter bajaden
- Start date
yeah those same guys had Patrick Williams in the 20’s and he went 4th and has looked the part. If we can’t be top 5, I hope we are in range to draft Wagner but I fear he will be top 8.
sactowndog
All-Star
you might find this podcast interesting they talk about physicality in relation to Boston and Williams
Episode 88: Latent Skills in the 2021 NBA Draft with Henry Ward - Part 1
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
If we come away with Wagner I will be happy. Bajaden mentioned he has some similarities with Haliburton like BBIQ and defending passing lanes. Another high iq player who plays solid defense and has offensive upside is a win for the Kings
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Williams looks like a solid upper level role player and still has some upside obviously but I doubt he goes 4th on a redraft even at this early stage. All in all the picks in this last draft kind of a got screwed a little. Okongwu and Toppin are buried to an extent. This next draft gets a little iffy around 8 so who knows what goes down. The question is will players like Jalen Johnson, Greg Brown, and Boston shoot up after not getting much of a look or looking 2 years away from being 2 years away. Or will they even declare. I know Johnson is but who knows.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
He's a solid piece but doesn't change the course of the franchise much. If the Kings end up in a rebuild post draft I think it would hurt to see those upside guys go above you.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I think we have to be careful hinging all our hopes and dreams on this draft. History tells us only a couple of the draftees are likely to be stars. If we aren’t in position for one of the top guys, I’d be happy to add a player of Wagner’s caliber. He is a plus defender, can pass and is the same age as most freshman.
Fox Ntilikina
Haliburton Buddy
Wagner DQJ
Barnes Woodard
Holmes Queta Garza
this is a realistic lineup for next season that would at least be competitive. Throw in a new coach and who knows? All five starters would be average or above defensively and 4 are good passers. 2 plus shooters and two who could at least be decent.
The second unit would be good defensively as well but light on offense outside Buddy.
The books start looking better the following year and we still have assets we could move.
I would imagine Bagley would be in the rotation!
bajaden
Hall of Famer
First off, you don't know that. How many people on this forum thought Bradley Beal was going to be the player he is today? I loved him in college, but many on this forum looked at him the same way your looking at Wagner. That said, every player you draft isn't going to be a star, but they can be one more piece of the team going forward. Lastly, when you compared Kispert to Staukas, you lost all my respect. They are nothing alike. Not even close. Kispert is the best shooter in college hands down. He's also a good passer, a good defender and has high basketball IQ. But most of all, and the biggest difference is, He's one tough confident dude. Something Nik lacked. He shoots over 50% from the three on catch and shoots. He's also a SF, which is something the Kings lack.
Having said all that, yeah, I'd rather have Cunningham, Mobley or Green. Right now it looks like it would take a miracle to get one of them. So I think you have to plan for the worse, but be ready if you get lucky.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I like Marvin, but I think it’s in his and the Kings best interest to part ways. I’d like to see him thrive in the right situation and I think the Kings need a different skill set at the position.
sactowndog
All-Star
I think you are mistaken. The Bulls are very high on him, he has lots of upside and he sits at 8 in the Kia rookie ladder as a hard to find wing.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/247spo...-Haliburton-Immanuel-Quickley--161961027/Amp/
sactowndog
All-Star
if Bagley doesn’t improve his defense he might not be.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Of course nobody does, but I know the Kings and.... I'll leave that there. haha. I also know right now players running pick and roll combined with those athletic skills and a set position are extremely valuable. Beal is a different story in some ways though. Extremely productive yet impact questions inherently exist but he still had a set position. And actually, I made off an hand joke about a shooter with some ball handling and PG skills that would be drafted by the Kings, which was and is something that Stauskas does have in common. LOL.
One thing about this board is people get waaaay too defensive about things and pick one word out of many to stick to when responding. You can critique players without "hating" them. I'd rather have a conversation about the negatives along with the positives and nobody needs to be white knighting college prospects for goodness sakes. They all have good things and bad about them just like any non-universal talent. And if they get drafted by the wrong team, into the wrong situation they could very well be DOA.
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SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
I'm sure they are, they're also very high on a similar player in Thad Young. I thought he looked darn good against the Kings but Bey, Haliburton, and Isaiah Stewart are either here or coming.
sactowndog
All-Star
yeah here and coming means what? The 2017-18 all rookie team if you recall:
First Team: Markennan, Tatum, Kuzma, Mitchell, Simmons
2nd Team: Bogi, Josh Jackson, Dennis Smith, John Collins, Lonzo Ball...
how many of those would you trade Fox for straight up?
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
It means they are showing their potential. And what the heck does this have to do with Fox? I'm saying on a re-draft he might not go 4 at the end of the day and a day not too far off in fact. Looking the part of a number 4 pick is all relative to the competition that went before or after him. He may very well be drafted that high again because he does still have good upside, I however think the players I mentioned would have a say in that right now if the draft were held over again. 5 years from now he might surpass them all if he can develop those wing skills that players like Thad Young never truly did.
Fair enough, but do you think Bagley will be traded and we won't get a rotation piece in return?
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I think a good trade partner would be Houston. Bagley for whatever salary filler ( I admittedly haven’t looked at their salaries to see what works) and the 23rd pick in the upcoming draft. Bagley next to Wood might be really great for Marvin and Houston has the 25th pick still plus their own assuming it doesn’t convey to OKC. The Kings can go after someone like Queta who will probably climb up the draft boards due to his skill set. I think a defensive big probably helps us more than the offense Marv brings.
Not gonna lie. That lineup makes me depressed lol.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
How come? 5 high IQ guys who play defense in a starting lineup is no easy task. The lineup has potential if both Fox and Haliburton take the next steps in their development. Plus, it’s not like that’s the end product, you will still have a 2022 first rounder in a strong draft and financial flexibility on the horizon.
I think Wagner would be a good pick if we were looking for a solid role player but he doesn't move the needle as far as "The guy we need to get us into the playoffs" goes for me.
My view of the starting lineup's defense is different than yours. I think Fox, Hali and Barnes are all different levels of below average defensively. Hali is awesome at playing passing lanes but he gets scored on extremely easy. He obviously has plenty of time to improve. Fox is the same way, but his defense is more cemented in since he's been in the league a few years. His metrics are actually pretty bad defensively. Barnes is decent but overall I don't think he plays above average defense. I wouldn't argue if someone said he was average. Holmes is a solid backup defensive player but I think he's on the bottom end of starters. Wagner will more than likely need a few years to become a good defense. I think that squad would get scored on about as bad as this one does. I just don't think this team is a Wagner addition, Bagley subtraction and a Hali extra year of experience away from going from one of the worst defensive teams in history to even like a normal below average team
The bench would be a nightmare. That's basically Buddy with 4 G Leaguers.
Not picking on your idea or anything. There really isn't much you can do realistically with the roster unless major trades are made or some lottery luck comes into play.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I agree with some of this but I am banking on Hali and Fox being better defensively going forward. There is really no reason DeAaron can’t at least be solid on that end I just think he has had to carry the team offensively and I’m hoping that changes in the future. Holmes has his deficiencies but is one of our better defensive players according to advanced metrics.
The bench probably wouldn’t be great initially but Queta would probably help immediately and Garza will be able to give you instant offense in my view. He is a bull around the basket even against althletic players and has added a three pointer to his game.
a better coach would go a long way as well.
And as you said, we aren’t going to be able to add better pieces via free agency until we clear up the books.
kb02
All-Star
He played better in the 2H, but I don't see a star. Doesn't have Fox's burst nor does he have Haliburton's vision or IQ/defensive awareness. Don't get me wrong, if the Kings are drafting 3 to 7 would love to have him. But I wouldn't take him #1.
The knock on him is going to be his pedestrian athleticism. Haliburton had that knock too. But I loved Haliburton pre-draft. I don't get that kind of feel (IQ; vision) for Cade.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Just to make sure we’re talking about the same player here, you do know Cade is the guy in #2 for Oklahoma State, right?
while I am incredibly high on Tyrese’s prospects as an NBA player, Cade is probably the best wing defender of any premier draft prospect coming into the league since at least Ben Simmons, and with the way NCAA basketball is, big attacking ball handlers like Cade are generally going to end up looking less effective than they actually are. When the lanes open up like they do in the modern NBA, he’s going to absolutely feast.
people point to his low assist numbers on Oklahoma State but, with respect to his teammates, who the hell was he supposed to pass to?
Remember the debate about Luka not being a good enough athlete to take off in the league? Well, you’re doing that but with a guy who is far more athletic than Luka was and is.
kb02
All-Star
I know who Cade is. I wanted Luka. I wanted Haliburton. Lack of elite athleticism doesn't scare me, if they offset it with timing, vision, IQ, and skill. I don't see that feel for Cade.
And remember, Bajaden and I were both beating Hali's drum last year. Sometimes I'm wrong about a player and sometimes I'm right. I'm not afraid to state my opinion. And mine of Cade is I wouldn't take him #1. I just don't see enough there to think he'll be a star.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
Have you missed that Cade doesn't have the same burst as Fox, the quickest player in the league? No way for him to succeed...
Cade is an excellent passer and playmaker from the wing, way better than average. He will be a 5+ assist per game guy in the league before too long. I honestly don't get how anyone could doubt his feel for the game when it's one of his clear strengths. He's very high IQ.
kb02
All-Star
There's high IQ and Haliburton like IQ. It's not the same. I didn't say he was going to be a bust. Read my comments. Just don't see a sure fire star. Wouldn't take him at #1.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
I get that, but Haliburton's IQ is not the norm. I don't think it really says much to take certain NBA players best traits and then compare a college prospect to that specific trait, and deem it a weakness if it's not on the same level. It's the overall package you have to look at.
Fair enough if you have done that and just don't see him worthy as a top pick, but I think that point can be made without saying he doesn't have Fox burst (nobody else in the entire league does) or Haliburton's IQ (elite even at this level).
