PRESEASON Grades v. Lakers 10/28
- Thread starter Bricklayer
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Yup.
- Petro (starting is a good possibility, because of injury to Potapenko and Moore, and Swift still young and developing, not quite to where Seattle hoped) - Sonics
- McCants - T'Wolves
- NATE (Robinson) - Knicks
- David Lee - Knicks
- Frye - Knicks
- Salim Stoudamire - Hawks
- Gomes - Celtics
- Luther Head - Rockets
- Jarrett Jack - Blazers
- Warrick - Grizzlies
- Graham (quite possible he starts over Mo Peterson) - Raptors
- Daniel Ewing (Livingston being sidelined) - Clippers
- IKE (Diogu) - Warriors
- Granger - Pacers
- Brandon Bass - Hornets
- Orien Greene (highly possible he'll start) - Celtics
- Lawerence Roberts - Grizzlies
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I am not "going" anywhere. I said, "most everyone"...not "everyone". Garcia is not on a team who needs a rookie as a starter. Those teams usually require their rookies to "pay their dues" like Martin did last year.
The rookies that start usually play on a team with a serious hole in their starting lineup. That rarely applies to the Kings. Heck! We don't even have any "serious holes" at our backup spots for each position.
Garcia will get some time...as did Kevin last year. Just don't be disappointed if he does not get the minutes you expect or want for him. Next year is another story altogether.
The rookies that start usually play on a team with a serious hole in their starting lineup. That rarely applies to the Kings. Heck! We don't even have any "serious holes" at our backup spots for each position.
Garcia will get some time...as did Kevin last year. Just don't be disappointed if he does not get the minutes you expect or want for him. Next year is another story altogether.
He's not most other rookies? He's not Lebron James or Carmelo Anthony either...
As 6th pointed out, the rookies that get lots of playing time are generally either total phenoms OR have filled gaping holes in the team's line-up. Cisco is neither a stud phenom and the Kings didn't have a gaping hole that he is better suited to fill than anyone else on our roster...
I like Cisco. I think he will eventually be a force to contend with on the Kings. I love the dynamic he, Martin and Hart bring to the backcourt when they're out there together. I'm just not quite ready to make him our 6th man quite yet...
As 6th pointed out, the rookies that get lots of playing time are generally either total phenoms OR have filled gaping holes in the team's line-up. Cisco is neither a stud phenom and the Kings didn't have a gaping hole that he is better suited to fill than anyone else on our roster...
I like Cisco. I think he will eventually be a force to contend with on the Kings. I love the dynamic he, Martin and Hart bring to the backcourt when they're out there together. I'm just not quite ready to make him our 6th man quite yet...
Chances of Garcia cracking into the regular rotations are pretty slim. While he is more comfortable as a rookie than Martin was last year, there is no way Adelman will play him unless there are injuries that he has to deal with.
Martin is a better fit at the moment for what we are tying to do BUT I suspect that even Martin won't be playing every game this year. Adelman likes his 8-9 man rotation and I wouldn't be surprised if there are times where Bibby and Hart are on the court at the same time and Martin doesn't play a minute.
FWIW, I think this is the rotation I think Adelman will go with (with everyone fit
)
C: Miller
PF: Abdur-Rahim
SF: Stojakovic
SG: Wells
PG: Bibby
6th: Thomas
7th: Hart
8th: Skinner
9th: Martin
10th: Williamson
11th: Garcia
12th: Sampson
13th: Price
Martin is a better fit at the moment for what we are tying to do BUT I suspect that even Martin won't be playing every game this year. Adelman likes his 8-9 man rotation and I wouldn't be surprised if there are times where Bibby and Hart are on the court at the same time and Martin doesn't play a minute.
FWIW, I think this is the rotation I think Adelman will go with (with everyone fit
)C: Miller
PF: Abdur-Rahim
SF: Stojakovic
SG: Wells
PG: Bibby
6th: Thomas
7th: Hart
8th: Skinner
9th: Martin
10th: Williamson
11th: Garcia
12th: Sampson
13th: Price
Čarolija said:
FWIW, I think this is the rotation I think Adelman will go with (with everyone fit )
C: Miller
PF: Abdur-Rahim
SF: Stojakovic
SG: Wells
PG: Bibby
6th: Thomas
7th: Hart
8th: Skinner
9th: Martin
10th: Williamson
11th: Garcia
12th: Sampson
13th: Price
)C: Miller
PF: Abdur-Rahim
SF: Stojakovic
SG: Wells
PG: Bibby
6th: Thomas
7th: Hart
8th: Skinner
9th: Martin
10th: Williamson
11th: Garcia
12th: Sampson
13th: Price
B
I have never seen a player turn the ball over 5 times in 5 minutes as Francisco Garcia did against the Lakers. Having said that, Garcia is a better player than K-Mart. Invest now, as RA will do, in the form of steady PT, and the payoff will happen soon. The mistakes Garcia makes are mistakes out of aggression. K-Mart will never help a team win at a high level. He's not a ballhandler, a shooter, a one-on-one player. He's passive, he drifts away from the ball. He's not even a good one-on-one defender. He has quick feet, and opportunistic in the passing lanes, makes a play only when the defense is paying no attention to him.....but he will be outmuscled and overmatched on most nights. He will relegated to garbage minutes soon, just watch. And his personality works against him too: he is basically content to wear an NBA uniform, and collect his paycheck, and just happy to be in front of a TV camera. He is way too preoccupied with trying to look cool, act cool, stay cool....winning is a secondary concern. Now that the season is here, and the games count for real, K-Mart will be exposed as a lightweight.....don't take my word for it. Just wait and see.
Right now I think our biggest question is depth. I think our starting five is going to be great, with time: Bibby and Bonzi, Peja SAR and Miller. First off the bench: Skinner, KT and Jason Hart. There is no consistent scoring threat in this group. If KT shot is off, then we have no bench scoring. KT can usually be counted on at Arco, but he is shakey on the road. And any scoring from Hart and Skinner are bonus points. (Skinner did look great in pre-season, but he is not exactly a reliable go-to option.) If we go deeper to the bench with Big Nasty, Garcia and K-Mart, these guys may have it one night, and another night give us nothing, especially against quality opponents. If our bench does not give us decent minutes against the Rockets next week, we will be down 15 points by half-time. The Rockets have the same quickness as the Lakers that gave us fits.
Anyway....enough armchair analysis....let the season begin!!!
Right now I think our biggest question is depth. I think our starting five is going to be great, with time: Bibby and Bonzi, Peja SAR and Miller. First off the bench: Skinner, KT and Jason Hart. There is no consistent scoring threat in this group. If KT shot is off, then we have no bench scoring. KT can usually be counted on at Arco, but he is shakey on the road. And any scoring from Hart and Skinner are bonus points. (Skinner did look great in pre-season, but he is not exactly a reliable go-to option.) If we go deeper to the bench with Big Nasty, Garcia and K-Mart, these guys may have it one night, and another night give us nothing, especially against quality opponents. If our bench does not give us decent minutes against the Rockets next week, we will be down 15 points by half-time. The Rockets have the same quickness as the Lakers that gave us fits.
Anyway....enough armchair analysis....let the season begin!!!
I'd still pencil Garcia in as Peja's primary back-up, though I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t get minutes early on. I think the overall goal is to work him into that role. That can change very quickly if he's not hitting his shots or if he's making too many "rookie" mistakes. Unfortunately Kenny and Corliss don’t have the range that the system loves, especially with duplicated talent like Rahim most likely playing major minutes alongside them, already.
It would’ve been a battle between Martin and Garcia for minutes, but with reports that Martin worked a lot with the coaching staff over the summer, I think he has an edge in that area. A friend thinks Martin could and should model his game after Bonzi’s.
Ultimately I see different combinations on the floor, but they'll be on very short leashes. They'll either work very quickly or they'll be cancelled.
It would’ve been a battle between Martin and Garcia for minutes, but with reports that Martin worked a lot with the coaching staff over the summer, I think he has an edge in that area. A friend thinks Martin could and should model his game after Bonzi’s.
Ultimately I see different combinations on the floor, but they'll be on very short leashes. They'll either work very quickly or they'll be cancelled.
I was actually thinking about that a bit as well. I think it will be more like horses for courses selection policy in that regard. There will be games where Garcia gets some minutes and Williamson sits and then there will be games where Williamson plays and Garcia sits.
I guess it will depend on a few things like match ups and what Rick is looking for on the offensive end. Does he want someone to play in the low post or does he want a player who can hit 3s with come sort of consistency. I think Garcia and Williamson are interchangable depending on the need.
However, I do think that when Peja goes onto one of his injury forced spells during the season that we will see more of Garcia because apart from Mike, there isn't anyone else that can hit a 3 with any sort of consistency.
I guess it will depend on a few things like match ups and what Rick is looking for on the offensive end. Does he want someone to play in the low post or does he want a player who can hit 3s with come sort of consistency. I think Garcia and Williamson are interchangable depending on the need.
However, I do think that when Peja goes onto one of his injury forced spells during the season that we will see more of Garcia because apart from Mike, there isn't anyone else that can hit a 3 with any sort of consistency.
I am not sure if Garcia is better than Martin. I do think he is better prepared as a rookie than Martin was.
Martin does look passive at times but then there are times when he brings great energy. I think he is a good defender. He is quick athletic and long, however he is still skinny and there will be times when his man gets the better off him because of it. He is bouncy, brings some energy, gets boards, plays the passing lanes well. However, he also does have some things he needs to work on more. His shot is inconsistent and as a result he is inconsistent as a player. He does need to take care of the ball a bit better because he can make silly "rookie" type turnovers. He also needs to improve his handle.
Having said that, I think he is a pretty good prospect. Every player has flaws and Martin can work on his and I have no doubt that he will.
On the bench bit, I agree to a point BUT we are so potent at the scoring end that we are not in desperate need of scoring off the bench. As far as our starters are concerned, any one of them can drop 30 points on any given night. What I am expecting from the bench this year is to bring some energy, defence and hustle into the game. I am pretty sure that more often than not, they will have a couple of starters on the floor with them at all times so scoring shouldn't be much of a concern.
Martin does look passive at times but then there are times when he brings great energy. I think he is a good defender. He is quick athletic and long, however he is still skinny and there will be times when his man gets the better off him because of it. He is bouncy, brings some energy, gets boards, plays the passing lanes well. However, he also does have some things he needs to work on more. His shot is inconsistent and as a result he is inconsistent as a player. He does need to take care of the ball a bit better because he can make silly "rookie" type turnovers. He also needs to improve his handle.
Having said that, I think he is a pretty good prospect. Every player has flaws and Martin can work on his and I have no doubt that he will.
On the bench bit, I agree to a point BUT we are so potent at the scoring end that we are not in desperate need of scoring off the bench. As far as our starters are concerned, any one of them can drop 30 points on any given night. What I am expecting from the bench this year is to bring some energy, defence and hustle into the game. I am pretty sure that more often than not, they will have a couple of starters on the floor with them at all times so scoring shouldn't be much of a concern.
If Garcia bring his best game on majority of occasions he will gets some minutes. However, if he does what he did during the pre-season and makes those mistakes then he will be in the doghouse. If he comes into the game and does what he did against the Lakers, he won't see any court time for months.
If he is willing to let the game come to him he will be fine. If he goes onto a rampage like he has done during the pre-season, he won't get a lot of minutes.
Another problem with having Garcia as Peja's primary back up, is that there are no minutes for Thomas and that could do a hell of a lot of damage to the make up of this team. If Thomas doesn't get the minutes as Peja's back up then he doesn't get to 20 mpg and that makes KT very pissed off individual who can be a distruptive presence on the team. We don't really need that.
Couldn't have said it better myself
If he is willing to let the game come to him he will be fine. If he goes onto a rampage like he has done during the pre-season, he won't get a lot of minutes.
Another problem with having Garcia as Peja's primary back up, is that there are no minutes for Thomas and that could do a hell of a lot of damage to the make up of this team. If Thomas doesn't get the minutes as Peja's back up then he doesn't get to 20 mpg and that makes KT very pissed off individual who can be a distruptive presence on the team. We don't really need that.
Couldn't have said it better myself
Damn you sure know a lot about K-Mart, from what he is thinking to how his true goals are.
I agree that Garcia is better than Martin (has a more complete to his game, went to a bigger program school, has international experience, is a year more mature) but that last post was rubbing it in, kicking a man while he is down, beating a dead horse.
Your last couple posts on Martin have gone from biased criticism to boderline ludicrous. ''He (Kevin Martin) is way too preoccupied with trying to look cool, act cool, stay cool....winning is a secondary concern'' how could you know such a thing? Is it from the TV interviews? How he carries himself on the court? I'm not seeing it, but that's my take, and like yours it's just an opinion.
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Good point. I see Corless getting big min (maybe even soem starts) in spesific situations where he helps create match up problems, but in general Corless does not brin much to the floor that SAR, Skinner or Kenny don't already have (except may be consistancy) On the other hand if the point of bringing Garcia in is to spread the floor with a serious three point threat that can also run the floor then the things I'd like to see him working on is shot selection, floor awarness and ball handleing. No knock on Garcia here as he IS way ahead of most rookies but still not ready for prime time.
You know, at a certain point that becomes our GMs problem. You play the guys who give you the best chance to win. If that's nto KT, and he can't deal with it, Geoff needs to suck ti up and move the unmoveable contract.
We'll see how that plays out this year. These kinds of issues have always trailed after KT in his career. But you don't let a player intimidate you into playing him because he threatens to become a cancer. (That's actually not entirely true, but you don't let a player of KT's caliber do it).
We'll see how that plays out this year. These kinds of issues have always trailed after KT in his career. But you don't let a player intimidate you into playing him because he threatens to become a cancer. (That's actually not entirely true, but you don't let a player of KT's caliber do it).
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