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storisaurus
Guest
It's shocking that some people still think MT makes this team "more competitive" for the short or long term.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
The difference now, is that this version of the 'titanic', won't descend all the way to the bottom of the ocean with no hope to be pulled back up. It's "decent" is already being slowed down, but we better not look at the "wins/losses" columns if we expect to notice it.
Rebuilding a franchise from scratch, doesn't happen in 6 months. Big picture, long view
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Name one.
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storisaurus
Guest
"Lineup to be the most competitive now:
PG - Vazquez (30 min)/Thomas (30 min)/McCallum
SG - McLemore (25 min)/Thornton (11 min)/Fredette
SF - Outlaw (28 min)/Moute (20 min)/Salmons
PF - Thompson (32 min)/Patterson (27 min)
C - Cousins (37 min)/Hayes/Ndiaye"
Glenn
Hall of Famer
That looks like my lineup.
I wouldn't mind at all if Jimmer got more minutes than MT. Not at all. I do not want to "lose" MT though as I suspect he can break out of this. He has certainly been better than this in the past and the sudden drop off is startling. I would use MT as the sub at the SG spot one half and Jimmer in the other half. I would also communicate my intent to the players but maybe that's just me.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
Hate to admit, but part of me has already got caught up in the tank, and have mixed feelings over eliminating Thornton, Salmons and Patterson's minutes because of the adverse effect it might have on arguably this seasons objective. I just have to remind myself that the lottery is not an exact system - both in where the balls end up and the selecting of players, and that the change of culture and development of players should take precedent
I think the problem is that some have a different idea of "this season's objective." Your last sentence says it all.
We bon't know which lineup would be most competitive because we have only tried one. It didn't do very well. Whether any new one would do any better is an open question. I think we can do better even if, in three weeks or so we go back to the one we just tried. The team and each player on it needs to and can get better. It's not sufficient that the ownership and coaching staff can be patient. I don't think the paying fan base, sponsors, etc. will be patient. It is important what remolding Malone chooses to do right now.
Siranthony
Starter
So far Thornton is averaging 8.7 PPG and 2.5 RPG. His career stats are 14.9 PPG and 3.3 RPG. His numbers are better than any other option except this year. But it looks to me like he is not giving the effort.
Looking at it from a stats perspective I think you have to have Thomas on the floor. Maybe Thomas and Vasquez at the same time. But I would like to get McLemore out there too. We don't have a lot of optons at SF unless we want to try McLemore there.
PPat has never hit a 3 pointer in his NBA career. I'm not sure why we wanted him in the first place. Luc or Thompson are better options IMO.
Looking at it from a stats perspective I think you have to have Thomas on the floor. Maybe Thomas and Vasquez at the same time. But I would like to get McLemore out there too. We don't have a lot of optons at SF unless we want to try McLemore there.
PPat has never hit a 3 pointer in his NBA career. I'm not sure why we wanted him in the first place. Luc or Thompson are better options IMO.
And that's why it's about more than just stats. Thomas serves a very valuable role coming off the bench. He's not the problem. Thornton and Salmons are the problems.
Before we start to do too much, let's just fix the 2, 3 and 4 slots. Keep what's working where it is, which means for the most part letting GV and DFC continue to start but change everyone else.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
This made me chuckle as it is true yet so simple in its logic.
There is certainly nothing to be lost by trying different lineups. There is nothing to be lost by trying McCallum and N'Daiye either. I suspect N'daiya will look lost but what the heck. We are building for the next few years and the w/l record this year is of no significance. Well ......... SOME significance but that's for another thread. 
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sactownfan
Guest
honestly i think MT's massive meltdown might have been last seasons frustrations hadn't left his mind… plus... He was probably expecting change and an opportunity to GET BACK to his career highs. Instead he watched us draft BEN... HIS REPLACEMENT, and was given DNP's in the preseason. I think that was the final straw for MT. He's done here
Can anybody see GV playing the 3 as maybe a point forward? He cant really guard 1s and he would be toast for the 2 to 3 'elite' 3s but having him there would take Salmons completely out of the equation and would open up more guard minutes to see what Jimmer and Ray can do while also keeping MT involved. I dont see him getting lit up alot at the 3 position honestly
treach1976
Bench
Agreed. I remember specific times during last year where he seriously pouted when sent to the bench. It suggests a serious lack of maturity and it might be difficult for him to bring himself out of it in this situation.... What you said above, plus the fact that he makes a big fat paycheck probably means his sense of entitlement won't allow him to accept the backseat to Ben and especially Jimmer.
He's being paid an obscene amount of money, whether he earns it or sits and pouts or stinks up the court. If he can't earn his paycheck, there are those out there more than willing to step up and take his place.
I might be misreading your comments, but I hope you're not trying to defend his actions.
What is it with the current fascination of trying to force players to play out of position? We can take Salmons out of the equation without having to move GV.
jalfa
Starter
http://sulia.com/channel/sacramento-kings/f/0069b472-299e-443b-8bc9-8cf66cb38eb5/?source=twitter
so, yeah, my guess is he's referring to Thornton with this and, considering that the lineup changes appear to have been disclosed to the locker room, Thornton appears to be out as a starter.
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
Salmons better be out too
Kingster
Hall of Famer
At this point, McLemore is an absolute no-brainer over Thornton. In this last game Thornton was just putrid on defense, and his body language was horrid. I think there were four or five plays in a row in which Portland managed to find Thornton on the court and the result was a score each time. It's as if the ball just follows him around so it can ultimately find itself going through the basket. I firmly believe that management is burning up the cell phone grid trying to trade Thornton.
Yes, IT is superior to Vasquez, no doubt in my mind. I'd still like to bring IT off the bench though because I don't think anybody can replace him in that important 6th man role. I'm desperate and panicked, so I'd like to try McCallum for several minutes at a time. Maybe have him come in very early for Vasquez. Or hold your breath and give Jimmer a shot. I saw Vasquez get rubbed off on screen and he was TWELVE FEET behind his man. On one occasion he just lucked out and they didn't get it to the wide open Blazer. On the second occasion Portland tried the same play, again Vasquez was twelve feet behind, and the Blazers got an easy two. Sure, guards get rubbed off screens all the time, but they have the recovery speed to make up ground so at the least the pass becomes much more difficult. Vasquez just doesn't have that recovery speed.
Yes, Luc over Salmons. Put Salmons out of his misery. Thornton and Salmons: two for the price of one sale?
PPat vs Thompson? I look at both of them and just cringe. Maybe Patterson would get a kick start in his shooting if he came off the bench. It's worth a shot. But then you're options are limited when it comes to substituting for Cousins at center. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
In conclusion, there's really no point in playing Salmons or Thornton. I'd look in the developmental league for whomever over those two right now.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
Um, what?
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sactownfan
Guest
im in no way defending MT… he's a total mess and WWAAAAAYYYYY to talented to be stuck at this awful level if it was really all about a slump. ITS NOT… like treach said his sense of entitlement due to his large contract and self perception of being a star are whats really got him down. No fault to malone but it probably dated back to last years mess. It probably wasn't fun to be a member of that disaster, and it appears it carried over into this year. He's just not happy here or with his role end of story, and his reaction has been to sulk…. Having to dig deep and put forth the effort to hold onto his spot and role is beneath him at this point.
so oh well maybe we find a taker for a gunner at the all-star break …. until then he can sit the bench and pout
Glenn
Hall of Famer
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KingMilz
Guest
In boxing they say you can tell a lot about a fighter by looking into his eyes and if you look into eMTptys eyes there is no fire in them the dude's thrown in the towel a long time ago.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
All true, but he needs to take some leadership tact/B.S. courses methinks.
Let the coach take the heat for it, you just vague it up.
Simply to get more scoring punch out there and keeping our best facillatator out of foul trouble. Theres alot worse matchups to defend pg wise than there are at the 3 right now. Im up to trying anything at this point to cover up some of these guus weaknesses.
Livinthedream
All-Star
Malone is referring to effort in all facets of the game. Not necessarily poor play. PPat is just not hitting shots that we all know he can and probably will start making in the future. His effort has been consistent in rebounding and D, even if he hasn't been effective. You send a mixed message if you bench him now for missed shots. Thornton and Salmons are the obvious targets. With Thornton almost a lock to be benched. But, I don't think you make wholesale changes right away.
Ray McCallum please. Defense always plays. And he's our best defensive guard. A matter of time before he's in for maybe 10 minutes a game. Don't care about who is a PG or who is a SG or who is a combo guard.....play GV, IT, Ben and Ray in any combination the coach sees fit. Please don't play MT ....at......all. And I'm fine with Jimmer playing but since he won't be here, what is the point?
I'd start GV and Ben. You can play IT and Ray together and let them share ball-handling duties to take pressure off Ray. Ray is almost as big as MT anyway and he's slightly taller than Jimmer. More physical than all of our guards except Ben.
I think Malone is going to give Jimmer his opportunity first though and I don't think anyone can question if Jimmer will play hard, but his defense most likely will cost him in the end. I think we are seeing a systematic approach to weeding out guys like MT, Salmons, maybe Hayes(that 6'6" center thing doesn't quite work).....not sure about Outlaw. I think he may get his extended shot. I DO think the systematic process now gets Mbah a Moute onto the floor. As far as PPat, well, he's been disappointing. I'm not giving up on him yet but he's got to pay better. I think we mat have to go back to JT and his averageness.....because on this team, his averageness keeps being our best option unfortunately.
I'd start GV and Ben. You can play IT and Ray together and let them share ball-handling duties to take pressure off Ray. Ray is almost as big as MT anyway and he's slightly taller than Jimmer. More physical than all of our guards except Ben.
I think Malone is going to give Jimmer his opportunity first though and I don't think anyone can question if Jimmer will play hard, but his defense most likely will cost him in the end. I think we are seeing a systematic approach to weeding out guys like MT, Salmons, maybe Hayes(that 6'6" center thing doesn't quite work).....not sure about Outlaw. I think he may get his extended shot. I DO think the systematic process now gets Mbah a Moute onto the floor. As far as PPat, well, he's been disappointing. I'm not giving up on him yet but he's got to pay better. I think we mat have to go back to JT and his averageness.....because on this team, his averageness keeps being our best option unfortunately.
Livinthedream
All-Star
If Lillard had better games against the Kings, I believe we would have seen McCallum. PGs have just been doing as they please against us and I'm sure that's why Ray got activated. I believe we see him in short spurts in the near future, ready or not. We almost have no choice because he's the only one that can be an effective defender at that position.
I will be so happy when the day comes that John Salmons no longer plays a single minute for us. Sick and tired of always hearing G&J go on about how talented he is, how his shots just aren't falling. When a guy's shots aren't falling for 3 seasons in a row you don't tell him to be more aggressive - you tell him to go sit in the corner while you play someone else.
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
Grant Napear said on his show today that he is almost certain changes will be made at the SG and SF before wednesday, and that he is unsure on the PF position, and he thinks PG will stay the same.
he said he's not sure who will start at SG and SF but if he had to guess it would be Luc at SF, and Jimmer or Ben at SG but most likely Ben
he said he's not sure who will start at SG and SF but if he had to guess it would be Luc at SF, and Jimmer or Ben at SG but most likely Ben
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