Potential Trade Scenario - ESPN

[DocHolliday]

You don't take on attitudes and more importantly contracts like Marbury when you are trying to rebuild. WHat exactly would taking on his $47 million contract accomplish for the kings during a rebuild where we are trying to foster youth?

 

[VF21]

thedofd - They aren't going to give us Lee or we could have pulled the trigger on an Artest for Lee trade a long time ago.

 

[thedofd]

thedofd - They aren't going to give us Lee or we could have pulled the trigger on an Artest for Lee trade a long time ago.

strikes me that the Knicks are in a poorer bargaining position now than then

 

[Entity]

You don't take on attitudes and more importantly contracts like Marbury when you are trying to rebuild. WHat exactly would taking on his $47 million contract accomplish for the kings during a rebuild where we are trying to foster youth?

because you get it over with in 2 years. Whereas if you keep KT and SAR it will be for 3 years and over that 3 years you pay those 2 over 40 mil as well. So you get a 1 year jumpstart waiting for cap space and roster space. Unless of course somebody else takes on those contracts. Which i don't see many takers.

 

[thedofd]

because you get it over with in 2 years. Whereas if you keep KT and SAR it will be for 3 years and over that 3 years you pay those 2 over 40 mil as well. So you get a 1 year jumpstart waiting for cap space and roster space. Unless of course somebody else takes on those contracts. Which i don't see many takers.

Also, because there's at least an itsy bitsy, teeny weenie chance that Marbury will contribute something (the Artest effect: keep your nose clean for a couple of months in the new surroundings). I've totally given up on getting anything positive out of KT; am real close to giving up on SAR (is there a younger player with older knees in the league?); and (although I know it's early) getting very nervous about Mikki.

 

[Bricklayer]

You don't take on attitudes and more importantly contracts like Marbury when you are trying to rebuild. WHat exactly would taking on his $47 million contract accomplish for the kings during a rebuild where we are trying to foster youth?

You're not adding a contract, you're subtracting two.

 

[beb0p]

I didn't check hoopshype, whose salary information is notoriously bad. I used the information from the article itself:

This deal makes sense for Sacramento because it gets them out from under the $17.3 million they owe Thomas for '08-09 and '09-10 and the $12.8 million they owe Abdur-Rahim over those same two seasons.

Er... those numbers do not include the current season. If you have to exclude 07-08 then its $30 millions for SAR+KT and "only" $22 millions for Stephon.

The numbers that I gave includes the current season, which is roughly $43 millions (SAR+KT) vs $42 millions (Steph). Which is also very close to the salary cited in the article.

Either way, it's cheaper to get rid of the dead weight.

 

[Smills91]

Well Marbury is certainly a lot closer to what he was than is Shareef. If we even wanted to play him of course. This would be close in structure to what Portland did with Zach Randolph, and they just bought out Steve Francis rather than bother with him.

At 4x's the cost, it's not even close. Give me SAR 10x's out of 10 over Blobbury.

 

[VF21]

Er... those numbers do not include the current season. If you have to exclude 07-08 then its $30 millions for SAR+KT and "only" $22 millions for Stephon.

The numbers that I gave includes the current season, which is roughly $43 millions (SAR+KT) vs $42 millions (Steph). Which is also very close to the salary cited in the article.

Either way, it's cheaper to get rid of the dead weight.

Ah, then I stand corrected on the financials. I STILL wouldn't touch Marbury with a 1,187 1/2 ft. pole.

If the guy isn't happy and producing in NY, I can pretty much double-guarantee you he'll be even worse here. And that's not the kind of bad apple I want in the barrel... We know the "evils" we're currently dealing with. Bringing in another potential for disaster is about as far from what I'd want to do as even remotely possible.

 

[thedofd]

Ah, then I stand corrected on the financials. I STILL wouldn't touch Marbury with a 1,187 1/2 ft. pole.

If the guy isn't happy and producing in NY, I can pretty much double-guarantee you he'll be even worse here. And that's not the kind of bad apple I want in the barrel... We know the "evils" we're currently dealing with. Bringing in another potential for disaster is about as far from what I'd want to do as even remotely possible.

Do you believe there's more potential for Marbury to do something harmful or outrageous than Ron-Ron?

 

[pkballr]

And to think, Larry Brown had a possibility to become our new head coach. Nice.

 

[nbrans]

I don't mind Marbury, I don't know what the big deal about him is besides the fact that he's not much of a winner. But it's not like we'd bring him in to win. He's had to deal with some pretty crappy situations in NYC, I'd be going postal at this point too.

All that said, I'm a bit uncomfortable in giving up Artest to get him, even if Balkman comes back. That just doesn't feel like a great value. Yes, it clears contracts a season early, but I'd almost rather that it included Bibby because when you give up Artest you give up an ender.

I think my preference would be:

Bibby/Thomas for Marbury/1st Rounder

That way, you're only giving up the salary you already have committed, you clear Thomas' deal a season early and get a pick in the deal. It leaves open the possibiliy of trading Artest and SAR separately to clear some more breathing room.

 

[kingsfan101]

Ah, then I stand corrected on the financials. I STILL wouldn't touch Marbury with a 1,187 1/2 ft. pole.

If the guy isn't happy and producing in NY, I can pretty much double-guarantee you he'll be even worse here. And that's not the kind of bad apple I want in the barrel... We know the "evils" we're currently dealing with. Bringing in another potential for disaster is about as far from what I'd want to do as even remotely possible.

Understand what you are saying, but if this deal is really available, we should pull it off. Consider the following

1. We save one year of both KT and SAR. We get two huge expirings next year, in Bibby and Marbury. Either or both can be valuable trade chips, or we could get some cap space.
2. There is a good chance we lose Ron for nothing.
3. Marbury's attitude can be a problem. So can KT's, and if SAR's minutes remain depressed, we don't know if he shall start whining too. At least Marbury's whining shall be for one less year. Plus, Ron is always Ron, and one never knows when and what he shall do.
4. If Ron does play well, he is just likely to cost us a few lins. That could have been ok, if he were part of our long term plans. Even if he is on his best behavior the rest of the year, it shall take a really brave GM and owner to sign him to a long term deal (assuming he opts out).

Ideally, it will be great to get expirings with good attitude, picks, young guys with potential to be good in 2-3 years. However, we have to be realistic in what we can get for our vets. It shall help pull in our rebuild by an year.

 

[GeraldWallace#3]

Stephon Marbury

Stephon Marbury left the Knicks Tuesday morning upset about his role on the team, heading home to Phoenix. He skipped the morning shootaround and it appears he'll miss tonight's game. "We hope he's at the game," coach Isiah Thomas said. "If not, make no mistake about it, we do want him as a member of this basketball team. He is welcome back, and we want him as a member of this team." The abrupt departure could spell the end of his Knicks career. Nate Robinson will benefit.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/He...rt=NBA&hl=86779

http://www.nypost.com/seven/1113200...icks_408228.htm

Marbury is a crazy-boy.

 

[venom_7]

Do you believe there's more potential for Marbury to do something harmful or outrageous than Ron-Ron?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=l_89i-QCP7c
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5gwOLq9rsj8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=h_1P0WdOOiQ
the fun in this one starts at the :55 mark

'Nuff said.

 

[bajaden]

I would be more interested in this trade if Lee were included. I don't like Balkman. He's a 6'6" overacheiver with no offense. If you check the stats he's not getting significant minutes on a Knicks team that needs all the help it can get. Artest has value and I would like to get something of value back, and not just expiring contracts. I understand where everyone is coming from, and its tempting. I just hate letting Thomas get Artest for chump change. At least throw in a first round pick.

 

[SacKings4Life21]

Our team sucks. The faster we start the rebuilding, the better. Kingsfan101 said it all right.

 

[TheRaven]

Our team sucks. The faster we start the rebuilding, the better. Kingsfan101 said it all right.

Exactly. The faster we clear salary, the closer we are to being competitive again.

In this scenario, I think Marbury would readily agree to an early buyout of his contract in order to try to jump to a team competing for a ring. Even if he doesn't, he has an early opt-out clause after this season. Even if he doesn't opt out, we still clear salary one year earlier.

I don't see how we lose in this deal, because I don't care if he is a headcase or how he plays on the court. It is irrelevant to our plans, because we will not be competing for anything until we get a couple of good drafts and some cap space cleared out to put together a proper roster.

 

[DocHolliday]

Exactly. The faster we clear salary, the closer we are to being competitive again.

In this scenario, I think Marbury would readily agree to an early buyout of his contract in order to try to jump to a team competing for a ring. Even if he doesn't, he has an early opt-out clause after this season. Even if he doesn't opt out, we still clear salary one year earlier.

I don't see how we lose in this deal, because I don't care if he is a headcase or how he plays on the court. It is irrelevant to our plans, because we will not be competing for anything until we get a couple of good drafts and some cap space cleared out to put together a proper roster.

If we haven't bought out Kenny Thomas, or Shareef Abdur-Rahim's contract what leads you to believe we would buy out Marbury's? Let's take it one stpe further, when is the last time the leadership curently in place in the Kings organization EVER bought anyone out? This isn't Los Angeles, New York, Philadelphia, or Chicago. They don't throw money around like that

From what they have shown the Kings organization does not like to pay people go away, just to let them go and sign somewhere else. So, your logic is flawed. You're counting on a buyout, or that someone will want to take on the other 20 million of Marbury's contract next year as an expiring contract at the end of next season. What gurantees that? Exactly, NOTHING guarantees that.

So the reality that people on the pro side of this deal are failing to recognize is you might be stuck with Marbury for 2 season with over 40 million owed, and having him be unhappy every second of it.

What position does Marbury play? I'll answer that, PG. What is so unhappy about right now that he left the team and didn't even show up for shoot around? I'll answer that to, loss of playing time. Who will be the starting PG when he returns from his injury? Mike Bibby when he returns. What role would Marbury take on this team? Most likely a backup. Do you see where I'm going here?

I understand people wanting to make moves, but this isn't the one to make. You don't start making moves JUST to shake things up with a WHOLE lot of what if's attached. The organization could find itself in a much worse position that it was to begin with doing business like that.

 

[KCKingsCountry]

We need expiring contracts, first round picks or good young talent.

 

[kingsfan101]

If we haven't bought out Kenny Thomas, or Shareef Abdur-Rahim's contract what leads you to believe we would buy out Marbury's? Let's take it one stpe further, when is the last time the leadership curently in place in the Kings organization EVER bought anyone out? This isn't Los Angeles, New York, Philadelphia, or Chicago. They don't throw money around like that

Valid point. However, even if we don't buy him out or are unable to trade him, we are stuck with him for one less year than with KT and Reef.

 

[Smills91]

Valid point. However, even if we don't buy him out or are unable to trade him, we are stuck with him for one less year than with KT and Reef.

It's really not a valid point, they're very distinct situations. It's one thing to buy out a guy that will expire this year that will just sit on the bench and rot that NOONE has ANY interest in, it's ENTIRELY different buying out mulptiple years, because that's just a burdenon the cap that CAN'T be traded in the future. You're essentially paying for nothing for multiple years AND you lose the risk of having decent salary filler if a big trade were to come your way. I don't like buying out contracts unless you get them to agree to 25% or less of their remaining deal(which almost NEVER happens). It's bad business. If they want out, let them opt out of their deal, but buying players out is a burden on the cap.

 

[hearns]

The ESPN trade doesn't make much sense. NY would have Randolph, Lee, Thomas, Rose and SAR at PF, and Sacramento Bibby and Marbury at PG. I like this trade:

Marbury, David Lee for Bibby, Kenny Thomas.

 

[Merdiesel]

no Lee, no Artest.

simple as that.

 

[beb0p]

So the reality that people on the pro side of this deal are failing to recognize is you might be stuck with Marbury for 2 season with over 40 million owed, and having him be unhappy every second of it.

Who cares if Marbury will be unhappy in Sac? Not me.

We trade two headcases and one very bad knee for an unhappy Marbury + two young players? Where do I sign up!

Marbury will take over when we do trade Bibby. In fact, Stephon is perfect for a rebuilding team - he's flashy and he doesn't win games therefore ensuring that Kings will be entertaining while securing a top draft pick.

 

[AriesMar27]

id be down if we trade bibby by the deadline.... i dont like marbury but im down for any trade that gets rid of thomas and reef....

 

[hrdboild]

As bad as Thomas and Reef are playing right now, I still think you'd have an easier time trading them than you would trading Stephon Marbury. Nobody wants him. So if you make this trade, you are pretty much guaranteeing an expensive buyout situation (unless you actually want Marbury on your team which I think would be a disaster both in terms of on-court play and off-court team chemisty). It would probably be cheaper to buy out Thomas and Reef than Marbury, so if that's the idea why make the trade at all? Artest is too good of a player to be unloaded in a salary dump. Especially when he's got a bargain contract with an opt out after this year. I think Balkman is a solid player, but he's not a starter. If we wanted Randolph Morris we could have offered him a contract when he was a free agent like any other team in the league. Artest for David Lee is the only Knicks deal that makes sense for us. If someone wants to trade a pick for the privelage of adding Shareef or Thomas to their roster, great. Otherwise let them sit on the bench until they earn themselves either playing time or a buy out.

 

[DocHolliday]

Who cares if Marbury will be unhappy in Sac? Not me.

We trade two headcases and one very bad knee for an unhappy Marbury + two young players? Where do I sign up!

Marbury will take over when we do trade Bibby. In fact, Stephon is perfect for a rebuilding team - he's flashy and he doesn't win games therefore ensuring that Kings will be entertaining while securing a top draft pick.

Marbury taking over I disagree with. Bibby is the PG unless he's not on this team. I'd rather see Beno out there being a good personality in the locker room, and doing what he does than Marbury. Sucking and having the players like each other is one thing, sucking and having locker room problems is a catastrophy.

 

[kennadog]

Marbury....ugh. In attitude, I think he makes KT look like Pollyanna. No thanks.

 

[TheFifthMookie]

after today, I would only make this deal if a buyout was pre-negotiated. No way we want this kind of mayhem on our team. Way better to just suck than to suck AND be crazy stupid.