Joshyjosh31
Starter
There’s zero chance Ellis starts over Cam
Potential Free agent/trade/sign tracker
- Thread starter iowamcnabb
- Start date
twslam07
All-Star
It’s a fair point regarding the assets we’d be sending out for Johnson only to have him come off the bench behind Simmons and Murray. So let me propose this alternative…
DAL GETS: DeMar DeRozan
DAL GIVES: Daniel Gafford & Naji Marshall
PHX GETS: Daniel Gafford
PHX GIVES: Royce O’Neale
SAC GETS: Naji Marshall & Royce O’Neale
SAC GIVES: DeMar DeRozan
I’d still look to sign Ben Simmons with our exception which leaves us with a roster of…
PG - Ellis / Monk
SG - LaVine / Carter
SF - Murray / O’Neale
PF - Simmons / Marshall
C - Sabonis / Valanciunas / Jones
- Again, we’d solve our “PG issue” without having to move on from any of our guards (and it makes a starting backcourt of Ellis/LaVine make much more sense).
- Our forward rotation would be much bigger, longer, and athletic while being much better defensively.
- Sabonis finally gets that big, long, athletic PF next to him who’s an elite defender
- We’d still have all of our 1sts available to us for future details, attaching them to LaVine for a “star upgrade,” or to pivot towards a rebuild
Joshyjosh31
Starter
Dallas believe in size and defense why would they trade both for a non defender who’s 35? If they were to do that they’d just target KD who can score and defend and he’s close to Kyrie and AD
twslam07
All-Star
Well that’s easy…because KD would cost severely more to obtain than DeRozan…that’s why.
Dallas would still be able to prioritize their size and defense since they’d be starting Irving, Thompson/Christie, Washington, Davis, & Lively, but they’d have the added luxury of having DeRozan lead their bench unit and slow the pace down (which likely benefits Dallas because of their great half court defense).
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Joshyjosh31
Starter
I’m pretty sure ever GM would rather pay up for KD than cheap out for Derozan y’all gonna be surprised how cheap he goes.
Durant won’t even cost a lot he’s an expiring he’s gonna determine where he goes which will diminish his value. If he says he wants to go to dallas they probably could get him for the same package plus salary fillers
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I would be shocked if he doesn’t end up in Houston. There have been confirmed reports of mutual interest and they can easily provide the best package back to Phoenix.
Krunker
Northernmost Kings Fan
What do you guys think about the idea of trading LaVine for Paul George + picks? It would probably mean a 3-4 year rebuild plan since we'd be stuck with PG for the next 3 years. It would also probably mean a full-on rebuild because I don't think our current higher-end guys would appreciate sucking that long.
twslam07
All-Star
Every GM? That’s a bold statement
And I don’t consider that package for DeRozan all that attractive. Gafford is an expiring and probably would leave SAC the next offseason as I’m sure he’d like to try and find a starting gig somewhere. And Marshall is a solid rotational forward to have off the bench. The package doesn’t seem super attractive.
twslam07
All-Star
Scratch that…I forgot PHX is over the 2nd apron. They can’t take in more salary than what is sent out.
Maybe I can figure out a way for them to get Bitadze as their C instead. He makes less than O’Neale and seems like he’d be a solid starting C for them.
twslam07
All-Star
I posted something similar awhile back. This was the general framework…
——————————
BOS GETS: Malik Monk
BOS GIVES: Jrue Holiday
WHY FOR BOS? The Celtics shed a considerable amount of salary and save them a lot on their tax bill while still replacing Holiday with a productive player on a decent long term deal.
——————————
DAL GETS: DeMar DeRozan
DAL GIVES: Caleb Martin, Naji Marshall, & Dwight Powell
WHY FOR DAL? Nico is obviously all in on trying to win now. They bring in DeRozan who can give them a legitimate scoring threat from the wing to play with Irving and Davis. I’d probably look to have DeRozan come off the bench and start Irving, Thompson, Washington, Davis, & Lively. That’s a very good starting lineup and their bench would be really strong with guys like Williams, Christie, DeRozan & Gafford leading the way.
——————————
PHI GETS: Zach LaVine, Caleb Martin, & Naji Marshall
PHI GIVES: Paul George & Jared Butler
WHY FOR PHI? The 76ers get out from underneath George’s contract and replace him with another scorer who is much younger. They also get some solid role players in Marshall and Martin to help bolster their rotation. They could start Maxey, LaVine, Oubre, Marshall, & Embiid with McCain off the bench.
——————————
SAC GETS: Paul George, Jrue Holiday, Dwight Powell, & Jared Butler
SAC GIVES: Zach LaVine, DeMar DeRozan, & Malik Monk
WHY FOR SAC? Holiday gives them a legit PG to help run the offense while also being able to defend at an elite level, space the floor, and provide some scoring. He’ll also be a good mentor for Carter and Ellis. George gives them more length, shooting, and defense from the wing while still giving them a go-to option. This also frees up Ellis to start at SG and you all of a sudden have a very elite defensive 4 around Sabonis who can all space the floor for him (Holiday, Ellis, George, and Murray). If we resign LaRavia and Lyles, we’d have a solid bench in Carter, LaRavia, Lyles, and Valanciunas to help fill in when injuries hit.
——————————
We could get some trade assets back in this framework as well considering how negative George’s contract is so the trade could do a few things…
- Make us more competitive next season (the team is MUCH more complementary)
- Established a tough, hard nosed, defensive culture (essentially the entire roster is filled with good defenders/players that don’t take plays off)
- Improve the future outlook of our team. We’d still have the extra MIN and SAS 1sts (as well as all of our future 1sts) and any additional 1sts we squeeze out of this deal
- Holiday is a great mentor for Carter & Ellis and can hand over the reigns as he continues to age. George is a solid mentor/archetype for Murray to emulate and can hand over the reigns as he continues to age.
PG - Holiday / Carter / Butler
SG - Ellis / Davis
SF - George / LaRavia
PF - Murray / Lyles / Jones
C - Sabonis / Valanciunas / Powell
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twslam07
All-Star
I still have to go with Ellis at this point.
He’s already very impactful and is a legit 2 way player. I feel like his offense isn’t super limited either. He has some ability to attack close outs and hit a midranger or floater, kick it out, etc.
The offensive end is where Carter is going to need to grow. I am really excited to see what type of player he is in his 3rd season. I think that’s a good chunk of time for him to sharpen his tools and be impactful on both sides of the floor.
I do standby what I said though in that I think Carter has the potential to be both a better offensive player and defensive player than Ellis. And if he reaches that level, well that’s a damn fine player.
Both have the quality of tough nosed defender but DC is more stout and looks to me like he may become more aggressive when it comes to penetrating. Would like to keep both
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I love Keon but I’m leaning Carter. I think his defense could be better over all due to strength and BBIQ. Offensively Keon is obviously the better shooter but Devin gets to the line and is a better passer. It all comes down to shooting for him. If he is 36 or above from 3 with high volume and gets in the high 70s or better from the line his impact will be huge
twslam07
All-Star
Alright swapping in CHA for PHX…
CHA GETS: Daniel Gafford
CHA GIVES: Grant Williams
DAL GETS: DeMar DeRozan
DAL GIVES: Daniel Gafford & Naji Marshall
SAC GETS: Naji Marshall & Grant Williams
SAC GIVES: DeMar DeRozan
I think the Ball to Gafford lob threat would be excellent and CHA could really use a great defender at C to help lift that team’s defense up. I’m assuming that things are still sour between CHA and Mark Williams after the rescinded trade so I’m assuming Williams isn’t in their long term plans which makes Gafford to CHA a good fit.
With Ben Simmons signed, we’d have…
PG - Ellis / Monk
SG - LaVine / Carter
SF - Murray / Williams
PF - Simmons / Marshall
C - Sabonis / Valanciunas / Jones
twslam07
All-Star
Yeah I’m like 65% Keon / 35% Carter for next season, but like I mentioned, I could see Carter really start to get the hang of it and take off in his 3rd season as he continues to get more and more comfortable, adjusts to NBA speed, and continues to grow his confidence.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Ain't that guy the Devin locked up? haha.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
That would likely put this team in that 8 year rebuild window. Johnson wasn't getting firsts before, he shouldn't now. Gafford is solid but while they would help, the Kings aren't guaranteed to be those level of players away from jack. Too risky, not enough return.
QWERTYLICIOUS
Starter
Any scenario that sees us with Ben Simmons on the roster, I have ZERO interest in entertaining.
Yeah, I like the idea of trying to take a stab at Nico and take advantage of him this summer. They have quite a few ancillary pieces that would fit us well and he clearly has no idea what he's doing. Can easily see him parting with pjw/gafford/naji for "bigger name" players
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
That's actually a pretty solid why not. Charlotte straight across for DeMar or maybe even Domas could be a decent trade partner.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
This is a big summer for Carter and Jones. They are close to ready for prime time, they've already shown it, so hopefully they take it seriously and have a very productive summer.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Who knows what they'd go for but if the Kings could parlay DeMar into PJ that would solve a lot of issues for both teams.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Yeah, the difference between Ellis and Carter is the pick and roll ability. Again, if you compare their college years in almost every area Carter projected far higher than Ellis in almost every area hence why he was where he was in the big boards. Ellis looks like a 3 and D guy through and through, we'll see where Carter goes but his potential is certainly as a legit pick and roll scorer. Does he get the chance or develop? We'll see.
If a player can't score in pick and roll they're going to be limited to spot shooting or limited off the dribble. Keegan is the same way but he's starting to use his body to create separation. It's only one real game with this last play in, but the question with an Ellis defensively is what can he get away with? I brought it up before, players that play handsy defense tend to have very up and down postseasons. Refs aren't going to let you swipe down at every star when they make their move. They will however let you play physical defense. Carter plays classic winning defense. With is chest. He locks onto his man, denies the ball, and he doesn't just play passing lanes. The thing we have look at as it goes forward is what kind of strength and size Carter adds with a proper summer to workout. There was a play in the Dallas game where PJ tested him and immediately decided that was unwise. Carter is learning the ropes and was really trying to pull out the flop at times. Flopping on offense is the way to go, defensively he just needs to stay strong and lock in. On the screens he's getting respect though. That flopping has worked so far. One on one, probably not. He might want to cut that out.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Even if he were close to free? He does look pretty roasted and toasted the last number of seasons.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Jones is interesting because if he is going to make an impact with us he needs to bring it defensively. He had a few highlight plays but mostly got cooked on that end. If he can take a big leap defensively he could be a part of the rotation for sure. He is a plus garbage man on offense and he gets to the line. More than enough to be part of the rotation if he can use that length on defense.
How many picks would we be getting back to suffer through 3 years of PG vs one or two of LaVine? Does Philly actually have anything attractive or did they blow it all trying to get Embiid over the top?
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
In the end Jones should be playing summer league with the goal to replace Lyles. Jones was playing well enough to not be taken out of the rotation. Hopefully the Kings young guys being placed in and out at various points was planned and part of whatever development scheme they had. Keon was the same way. They took it a little more slowly with him as well. Lyles was having like 3 solid months of really mediocre play before the April run of contract play kicked in.
To be fair to Lyles, wasn't he hurt?
That said, it would be a mistake to retain him at this point. Free up that money for someone else and let him play for a team in contention. Play Jones, play Jake if we can keep him, spend the money on an MLE guy if you really want to at that spot. Be mindful that we may be in a teardown in 9 months.
Hopefully Perry understands the assignment even if Vivek does not.
