Post Trade Discussion
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I think of it as:
Webber for Thomas Large Downgrade: -rebounding -scoring -passing -leadership +athleticism +defensive rotation
Barnes for Corliss Moderate Upgrade: +scoring +experience -rebounding -defense
Bradley for Skinner Slight Upgrade: +shotblocking +rebounding
Overall: +depth +athleticism +experience +defense -rebounding =scoring
We're not really saving any money in this deal, despite what many people seem to think. I'd need NME to back me up on this, but I believe the total $$$ owed on these three contracts actually exceeds that left on Webber's.
Here's the thing: If Webber gives out physically again, this turns out to be an unquestionably good deal for us. Kenny Thomas on the court is 100% better than Webber in a suit (except for the ladies). His trade value was at his highest now since his recent 3Ds and overall play. We all know Petrie is not an idiot. He took a very bold, calculated risk. Whether it was a good move or not only time will tell.
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Webber for Thomas Large Downgrade: -rebounding -scoring -passing -leadership +athleticism +defensive rotation
Barnes for Corliss Moderate Upgrade: +scoring +experience -rebounding -defense
Bradley for Skinner Slight Upgrade: +shotblocking +rebounding
Overall: +depth +athleticism +experience +defense -rebounding =scoring
We're not really saving any money in this deal, despite what many people seem to think. I'd need NME to back me up on this, but I believe the total $$$ owed on these three contracts actually exceeds that left on Webber's.
Here's the thing: If Webber gives out physically again, this turns out to be an unquestionably good deal for us. Kenny Thomas on the court is 100% better than Webber in a suit (except for the ladies). His trade value was at his highest now since his recent 3Ds and overall play. We all know Petrie is not an idiot. He took a very bold, calculated risk. Whether it was a good move or not only time will tell.
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random rants to no post in particular:
One game does not define the success of the trade It was a nice win against a team we should have beaten. period. Tomorrow will be a better test.
Adleman won't suddenly change his stripes and go deeper than 7 or 8.
With the new "complexion", Peja should be forced to earn his minutes. They are not an entitlement. If the Webber trade shows us anything it is that no one player is guaranteed anything.
I hope that Thomas and Corliss don't get "Carill-ized" and become strictly elbow jump shot and outside pick setters. Some inside presence was a refreshing addition tonight.
Does Philly not know what they got in Barnes???? DNP-CD, hmmmmmmm
Don't get too attached. One (or more) of Williamson/Thomas will not be with the Kings next year.
One game does not define the success of the trade It was a nice win against a team we should have beaten. period. Tomorrow will be a better test.
Adleman won't suddenly change his stripes and go deeper than 7 or 8.
With the new "complexion", Peja should be forced to earn his minutes. They are not an entitlement. If the Webber trade shows us anything it is that no one player is guaranteed anything.
I hope that Thomas and Corliss don't get "Carill-ized" and become strictly elbow jump shot and outside pick setters. Some inside presence was a refreshing addition tonight.
Does Philly not know what they got in Barnes???? DNP-CD, hmmmmmmm
Don't get too attached. One (or more) of Williamson/Thomas will not be with the Kings next year.
Petrie was right.
I respect and appreciate Chris Webber very much, but I doubt that he will play more than half of his remaining-available-minutes (rems) for the season. That is, he will play 30 or more minutes per game WHEN HE PLAYS. However, I am quite certain that he will have to sit-out some games to recover from stress and knee-abuse. If he can't play very much, and Philly continues to lose games, I'll bet Philly fans will see Chris in the same light that we once saw Ralph Sampson, except that they won't be so nice. As Napear told Jerry Reynolds tonight, "Philly fans boo Santa Claus."
Still, this game can not be a proper guage of how well the Kings will be with our new players. We still don't have Peja Stojakovic or Bobby Jackson. I think the Kings will be very impressive when everyone is healthy.
The new forwards are going to save our collective butts when they have an opportunity to play within the Adelman-Corrill system.
This is going to be an interesting 60 days.
I respect and appreciate Chris Webber very much, but I doubt that he will play more than half of his remaining-available-minutes (rems) for the season. That is, he will play 30 or more minutes per game WHEN HE PLAYS. However, I am quite certain that he will have to sit-out some games to recover from stress and knee-abuse. If he can't play very much, and Philly continues to lose games, I'll bet Philly fans will see Chris in the same light that we once saw Ralph Sampson, except that they won't be so nice. As Napear told Jerry Reynolds tonight, "Philly fans boo Santa Claus."
Still, this game can not be a proper guage of how well the Kings will be with our new players. We still don't have Peja Stojakovic or Bobby Jackson. I think the Kings will be very impressive when everyone is healthy.
The new forwards are going to save our collective butts when they have an opportunity to play within the Adelman-Corrill system.
This is going to be an interesting 60 days.
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So I guess now we can only wait and see what happens. We have an excellent coach who i think can work all these guys into an excellent system and use them to their full potential. We now some front court presence, we can actually reebound and play defence, and this is only with a single shoot around-imagine after a couple of practices.
The only thing that can make this team better now is time and maybe a couple of postseason moves to acquire more leadership and more defence.
The only thing that can make this team better now is time and maybe a couple of postseason moves to acquire more leadership and more defence.
<sigh> I guess it doesn't matter, but guys...we got outrebounded tongiht. We were playing a fairly weak opponent as disjointed as we were, and the new guys were all playing inspired ball because it was their first game back and they had something to prove. Its not always going to be this smooth, and the guys aren't always going to be this good. There are still bumps ahead.
P.S. remember how Mobley looked like an All-Defensive team member his first couple of games for us? Same syndrome.
P.S. remember how Mobley looked like an All-Defensive team member his first couple of games for us? Same syndrome.
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I don't even think tonights game was smooth. We got out of there with a steal. Our initial rebounds before the half were great, then that all went to the wayside.
It was obvious to me tonight that our team needs some work. Needs some practice or whatever, very (not even sure I have a word for it here) but they need some work.
I am happy for the win, as I will take em anyway I can to make the playoffs and hold some ground in our standings.
It was obvious to me tonight that our team needs some work. Needs some practice or whatever, very (not even sure I have a word for it here) but they need some work.
I am happy for the win, as I will take em anyway I can to make the playoffs and hold some ground in our standings.
haha thanks for ruining our happy momement Bricklayer 
, but you have a good point. Mobley was barely the same Cat we saw in the first couple of games, I just hope that it won't be the same with K9 and Corliss (does he have a nick-name?). We are going to have low games, they are only human, but these will be as limited as possible ::knock on wood::
, but you have a good point. Mobley was barely the same Cat we saw in the first couple of games, I just hope that it won't be the same with K9 and Corliss (does he have a nick-name?). We are going to have low games, they are only human, but these will be as limited as possible ::knock on wood::
Kings-Lakers-Fan said:
haha thanks for ruining our happy momement Bricklayer , but you have a good point. Mobley was barely the same Cat we saw in the first couple of games, I just hope that it won't be the same with K9 and Corliss (does he have a nick-name?). We are going to have low games, they are only human, but these will be as limited as possible ::knock on wood::
, but you have a good point. Mobley was barely the same Cat we saw in the first couple of games, I just hope that it won't be the same with K9 and Corliss (does he have a nick-name?). We are going to have low games, they are only human, but these will be as limited as possible ::knock on wood::
Let's put it this way -- they've been one of the weaker rebounding teams in the league this year (with our new players BTW), albeit slightly better than us. And they outrehbounded us. Their new PF had 11 against us. They grabbed two huge and potentially game turning O-rebounds off of missed FTs late.
I think the new guys did a good job on the glass, but it was really nothing that we couldn't have gotten from the old guys at any time assuming Peja came out of his shell. 10 for the PF. 6 for the SF. 0 actually for maybe the best rebounder of the bunch (Skinner).
I think the new guys did a good job on the glass, but it was really nothing that we couldn't have gotten from the old guys at any time assuming Peja came out of his shell. 10 for the PF. 6 for the SF. 0 actually for maybe the best rebounder of the bunch (Skinner).
No, I think that is generally fair tonight. And that is the problem -- we traded away our best boarder (actually with Matt maybe our TWO best boarders) to get these new guys. So they hustle and do a pretty good job on the glass, but they really aren't any better than the guys we lost. Chris Webber and Matt Barnes were NOT why we were a poor rebounding team. Both guys were near the top of the charts for players at their positions. The problems were elsewhere. And that obviously hasn't been corrected.
Chris is a good rebounder, but I think his lack of mobility and speed has made him somewhat of a defensive liability. Thomas went right around him. That is more of a problem than simple rebounds. People run right past our players to the net. I thought that Webber and Iverson were largely controlled tonight. Neither went off for major points. Songaila did pretty well with Chris.
No, I agree defensively we DO have a chance to be a little better (the ealier post was in regards to rebounding). And I say a little, because of the guys we got back only Skinner is noted at all for defense. I actually think Larry Brown ran Corliss out of town (for Derrick Coleman -- duh!)partially because he was not much of a defender, and Thomas is a good effort guy, but as you can tell from having seen him just way way too little to bother big players or challenge anybody around the rim. They'll hustle and move better, but only Skinner is remotely intimidating as a defender.
Collectively, they'll be fine, not great, but fine. But the real hope has to be that the hustle will wear off on some of our regulars, because that's where the problem lies.
Collectively, they'll be fine, not great, but fine. But the real hope has to be that the hustle will wear off on some of our regulars, because that's where the problem lies.
Bricklayer said:
Well, if you want to I suspose, but the "genius" is still very much in question.
Can't be stressed enough -- 1 game against a disjointed mediocre opponent. This isn't going to happen everytime out -- the flip side of these guys being old pros is that they don't have any surprsies in store. Nobody's suddenly going to become a stud. Just be what they are, and then probably get moved in a few months when we try to re-contender ourselves in the offseason.
Can't be stressed enough -- 1 game against a disjointed mediocre opponent. This isn't going to happen everytime out -- the flip side of these guys being old pros is that they don't have any surprsies in store. Nobody's suddenly going to become a stud. Just be what they are, and then probably get moved in a few months when we try to re-contender ourselves in the offseason.
No offense to your judgement skills, but if you think moving from Barnes to Big Nasty is a slight upgrade, you need to sit in a corner and think about what you've done. Big Nasty is a proven NBA player and while Barnes has the potential, Williamson is a HUGE upgrade overall. That said I hope Philly waves him so he can come back!!! Barnes will be a huge player
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I've got questions -- issues? -- with the trade that probably won't be addressed until the offseason, and certainly won't be addressed after one shorthanded and overly emotional game. So, its way too early to go there for me.
However, on a strictly personal level, I learned that I was, in fact, able to root for the new guys* and that I could (for the first time ever) root for Chris to miss a shot. Watching the game got me closer to closure, and, damn that feels good.
*I knew that I could, of course, root for anyone and everyone wearing a Kings jersey, but it was nice to get confirmation of that fact -- the emotion of the trade hit hard
However, on a strictly personal level, I learned that I was, in fact, able to root for the new guys* and that I could (for the first time ever) root for Chris to miss a shot. Watching the game got me closer to closure, and, damn that feels good.
*I knew that I could, of course, root for anyone and everyone wearing a Kings jersey, but it was nice to get confirmation of that fact -- the emotion of the trade hit hard
Agreed^, It's just one game but I felt a little sense of closure tonight too. The new guys I think exceded most peoples expectations, they certainly exceded mine. I'm looking foward to seeing what this new team can do once we get Peja back, It's still early but this game gave me hope that Corliss and crew can play like this on a consistant basis... and hope is something I have been missing the last few days.
Damn, girl. You took the words right out of KG and my mouths. We were discussing the exact same thing on the ride back to Sacramento from my house a bit ago. However, we're still suffering that mysterious sudden urge to wail like wounded banshees. I personally believe it has something to do with the decor of KG's home. There isn't a wall, desk, table, lamp, bit of floor, etc. that doesn't have something Kings related on it. For example, walking down the hall one is faced with the choice of staring at the floor OR looking at a poster of Jason Williams with Chris Webber on his left and Vlade Divac on his right. Instant sobs and you don't even need to add water.
This is gonna be tough. As KG said, in the TDOS it would have been somewhat easier because.... because... because... okay, I don't remember why exactly she said it would be easier but it sure sounded good at the time.
At least the part I heard between sobs sounded good.
Closure? Right now I'll settle for anything less than sniveling mound of hysteria...and that's a good thing.
This is gonna be tough. As KG said, in the TDOS it would have been somewhat easier because.... because... because... okay, I don't remember why exactly she said it would be easier but it sure sounded good at the time.
At least the part I heard between sobs sounded good.
Closure? Right now I'll settle for anything less than sniveling mound of hysteria...and that's a good thing.