Playoff-quality

[SacTownKid]

Does anyone have a specific idea that will result in a great team in the season of 2010/2011? The route the Kings are taking will result in a great team in that season.

You can't predict the future, but you can certainly define the past and present to determine what road you should take. It's been long enough to determine that this franchise leans heavier to the side of youth and rebuilding than it does this current veteren squad. It isn't going to grow into a winner. Why? Because it's pretty easy to see that the pieces don't fit together. What you do is keep the ones you feel will be ready when the time comes, wipe the slate clean, get what you can for the valuable veterens you do have, have a vision of what kind of players you want and how you want to play, and do what needs to be done.

Simple fact is you just keep on tweaking it until it works. We are in the last phase of cleaning up the championship squad that wasn't. A good portion of the vets we have are only one move removed from that team. Kenny Thomas = Webber clean up, Brad = Vlade replacement, Ron = getting value for Peja, Bibby = ?, etc. Petrie or whoever tried to give it one last go, but it's pretty plain to see it isn't happening before we have to make some major commitments to players that can't get it done now. Why bring them back for what could equate to the final years of their careers? With contracts that will be very hard to build around.

 

[Bricklayer]

Does anyone have a specific idea that will result in a great team in the season of 2010/2011? The route the Kings are taking will result in a great team in that season.

Er...no. You keep on saying that. But that makes no sense. How? By magic? Just by waiting? You can't just sit around and say, ok, now the team will be great. By 2010 every major player on the Kings other than Kevin will be 30+. You will either have had to extend them for big money just to keep their aging butts, or have to replace virtually all of them anyway. If you reup them, there goes all that cap room. If you do not, then you somehow have to sign so many big free agents that summer that you replace them all. Meanwhile while sitting around trying to win all of the irrelevant games before the event, you have basically intentionally deprived yourself of great young prospects. So now your team consists of Kevin, a bunch of aging overpaid vets, and a trio of mediocre#12-#18 draft picks, or it consists of Kevin, capspace, and a trio of mediocre #12 to #18 draft picks. In neither case is that REMOTELY a great team or potentially a great team. In order to get a "great team" from where we are at you HAVE to do something. Paralysis won't get it done.

 

[Glenn]

Er...no. You keep on saying that. But that makes no sense. How? By magic? Just by waiting? You can't just sit around and say, ok, now the team will be great. By 2010 every major player on the Kings other than Kevin will be 30+. You will either have had to extend them for big money just to keep their aging butts, or have to replace virtually all of them anyway. If you reup them, there goes all that cap room. If you do not, then you somehow have to sign so many big free agents that summer that you replace them all. Meanwhile while sitting around trying to win all of the irrelevant games before the event, you have basically intentionally deprived yourself of great young prospects. So now your team consists of Kevin, a bunch of aging overpaid vets, and a trio of mediocre#12-#18 draft picks, or it consists of Kevin, capspace, and a trio of mediocre #12 to #18 draft picks. In neither case is that REMOTELY a great team or potentially a great team. In order to get a "great team" from where we are at you HAVE to do something. Paralysis won't get it done.

You are assuming that none of our draft picks other than Kevin will mature into good ball players yet you want us to depend on drafting other young players? If the only player that matures nicely is a shooting guard, perhaps the easiest position to fill, we truly are screwed.

I don't consider Salmons and Artest as old. What I consider as players in their prime you consider old and that is the primary difference in the two camps of thought, I think. I assume Bibby, SAR, KT, Brad, and Mikki will be gone with no magic needed. Don't resign them. Any other changes of present personnel would be via trade and I can't predict what the trade might be.

Lots of uncertainty no matter what is done. Sometimes it seems some people (not you) want Petrie to appear to be doing something whether it is useful or not.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I don't consider Salmons and Artest as old. What I consider as players in their prime you consider old and that is the primary difference in the two camps of thought, I think. I assume Bibby, SAR, KT, Brad, and Mikki will be gone with no magic needed. Don't resign them. Any other changes of present personnel would be via trade and I can't predict what the trade might be.

Salmons and Artest are both in their primes right now; in 2010, they'll both be thirty, which is not generally considered to be the prime of a professional athlete.

Among other things, the problem that I have with the whole salary cap premise is that quality free agents (read: star-caliber players) don't want to come here, and they're not going to want to come here in 2010, either. The two most viable options for getting a star player are drafting one and trading one and, frankly, our chances are rather better in the draft.

 

[Kingster]

Good job Dime Dropper. I for one pretty much agree entirely with everything said in his posts here.....its a hard thing to say amongst kings fans, but its dead on.

IMO:

1. The Kings are nowhere near a contending team

2. They either must package Bibby and/or Artest with contracts (KT, etc) and clear cap room, or wait until 2010 to get a FA shot.

3. All winning really does right now is lower your draft status, and placate certain fans.

4. Of course the Kings and Coach T said they're a playoff caliber team, what else would they say? Coach T also supported Musselman all year last season, so there's that as well. Grain of salt.


All wins really do right now is make some people happy in the short term. Its a merry-go-round, and just depends on your fan philosophy. If you just want to see the team try hard, high five, smile, and win as much as possible, then 30+ wins make sense.

My philosophy is simple.....there are far more positives out of an 0-82 season than a first round playoff exit. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING should be geared towards a title.

1. Set yourself up in the draft.

2. Get rid of veteran, big contracts (or exiting players like Artest) for ANY sort of value (young players, draft picks, or expiring deals).....

3. Play and develop the youngs. I really dont care about Mikki Moore getting playing time, its absolutely pointless. Like the Raiders failing the JaMarcus Russell situation, the Kings should be playing Hawes/J. Williams every possible minute.

4. When Bibby comes back, play him long enough to show the league he's healthy, let him take 40 shots a game and focus the offense ENTIRELY around him. After he puts up a couple 30 point nights, trade him for ANYTHING that involves cap relief and/or picks. If you get really lucky, you can package KT with him. Seriously. If you had the opportunity to find a team desparate enough to take both Bibby and KT, if they offered you a donut sandwich back, you should be driving them to the airport.

Trade Artest now when you can get something, ANYTHING for him. This is the most likely way to get KTs contract gone. Artest is gone next year, get something for him now.

Let guys like Udrih, K-Mart, Salmons, Garcia, and Hawes be the bridge to the future. Do everything to continue their development. THEY are the ones who should be getting 40 minutes a game, screw the Win/Loss record.

IMO, that's how you build a future. That's how you become a contender. Everything else is just window dressing.

Some people are ok with a pacific division banner. I am not in that crowd.

BINGO! You and Jerry Reynolds should talk about this sometime. He seems to think the draft is for suckers...He mentions this during the Boston games (who hasn't won a title as yet), but for some reason doesn't mention it during the San Antonio games. Hmmm..............

 

[Kingster]

I would like somebody to explain to me EXACTLY what the Kings organization should do. I mean I see alot of people saying lose games to get a higher pick. NO TEAM is goint to tank a full season so get that out of your heads. Then I hear well trade Bibby and/or Artest so we won't be that good and get some picks or youngster. Do you expect not to get any talent back? Have Beno, Martin, Garcia, Salmons not proven they can still be a formidable team without Artest and Bibby? Nobody can say play the youngsters anymore because we are. As far as Hawes goes 10 min a game at 19 years old coming off KNEE SURGURY is plenty if you want this kid to have any kind of future.

The optomist are not the problem here so don't act as if its our fault we are not bad enough to get that illustrious top 10 pick. I mean you get mad when we want this team to make the playoffs. But why? nothing you can do or I can do. So why not hope for the best at all times. So instead of getting upset when ppl say we can make the playoffs. Explain to me how you expect to be bad enough to get a good pick. Even if we do there is no garuntee. So I see ppl saying it takes 2 or 3 years to build via the draft we will just have to wait. Well in 2 or 3 years all of our BIG contracts are gone and we can then build via free agency or trade for picks or what not. But seriously face the facts WE ARE NOT GOING TO GET A GREAT DRAFT PICK as long as we have the talent we do. Unless we trade Martin, Salmons, Garcia, Artest, Bibby, Miller for scrubs we will in the 12 to 17 range come draft day. I for one don't want to see us win each night and never at ANY point during the game do I look toward a draft that MIGHT give us a great player or we could get #1 pick and he turn out to be a BUM.

So does anybody want to propose to me what you think should happen that probably won't.

1) See CDs post above. Play the young guys. Trade Artest & Bibby.

2) The term "tank" is about as useful as the term as the phrase, "Is it time to panic?" I've been waiting for years to hear when it is time to panic; never have figured that one out. They tell me even if you are lost in the Pacific surrounded by sharks and bleeding from your arterial artery that you shouldn't panic, yet people seem to ask the question repeatedly.

3) A "formidable team"? We haven't had a formidable team for quite some time now.

4) Playing the youngsters? Well, I suppose that if you played Hawes, Douby and JT for 1 minute per game you could legalistically say that Theus is playing them. Where have we heard that the doctor says that Hawes can't play more than 10 minutes a game? I think it's coaches decision.

5) Of course we aren't going to get a top 5 draft pick with our current roster. And that makes a good case for getting rid of some of these guys. And it would be nice if we didn't get anything back for Artest and Bibby, or close to nothing except for salary cap room. If we played the young guys we would get a top 5 pick.

 

[VF21]

BINGO! You and Jerry Reynolds should talk about this sometime. He seems to think the draft is for suckers...He mentions this during the Boston games (who hasn't won a title as yet), but for some reason doesn't mention it during the San Antonio games. Hmmm..............

No, Jerry Reynolds DOESN'T say the draft is for suckers. What he does continually say is that you cannot build a team solely on the draft since at least half the people drafted don't make it past their initial contracts. He has said repeatedly that not every draft contains a LeBron James and that teams need to rely on combinations of draft and GOOD TRADES, which is why he kept praising Danny Ainge.

I don't mind when people disagree with him but it would be nice if they could at least get the concept correct.

 

[Gary]

2. Get rid of veteran, big contracts (or exiting players like Artest) for ANY sort of value (young players, draft picks, or expiring deals).....

3. Play and develop the youngs. I really dont care about Mikki Moore getting playing time, its absolutely pointless. Like the Raiders failing the JaMarcus Russell situation, the Kings should be playing Hawes/J. Williams every possible minute.

4. When Bibby comes back, play him long enough to show the league he's healthy, let him take 40 shots a game and focus the offense ENTIRELY around him. After he puts up a couple 30 point nights, trade him for ANYTHING that involves cap relief and/or picks. If you get really lucky, you can package KT with him. Seriously. If you had the opportunity to find a team desparate enough to take both Bibby and KT, if they offered you a donut sandwich back, you should be driving them to the airport.

Trade Artest now when you can get something, ANYTHING for him. This is the most likely way to get KTs contract gone. Artest is gone next year, get something for him now.

Let guys like Udrih, K-Mart, Salmons, Garcia, and Hawes be the bridge to the future. Do everything to continue their development. THEY are the ones who should be getting 40 minutes a game, screw the Win/Loss record.

Ok.. Your take on Artest I kind of agree with. We can clear about 7 mil if we let him walk. What's the difference if we get a player for Artest or not? Unless he is a starting PF than it's just useless.

Your take on Bibby is kind of skewed. I think KT is untradeable. EVEN with Bibby. I woudl rather tell KT to go home, or accept a buyout and have the chance to play for another team. That's probably more realistic than a trade.

That last paragraph about playing Beno/Martin/Salmons/Hawes/Garcia for 40 minutes is kind of....... well.... When you have a guy in Miller who has worked his *** off to get back into playing shape, and is now (since Martin has been injured) picking up a ton of the slack, you gotta play him. He is putting up about 19ppg/9rpg/3.5apg. That's pretty damn good for a center. Hawes will get his chance whether it be because of an injury or whatever.. He will get a chance to play, and this time behind Miller is just as valuable because he is learning. A good thing as well that has come of this is that Miller is now becoming more and more tradeable. He used to be blacklisted but the numbers he has put up are really injecting value into Miller again.

Your #3.. Agree.. Moore is a bench player. Pure and simple. Not a starter. He is an energy guy to get a couple dunks, and grab an offensive rebound or two. He seems to be better at the offensive rbounds than the defensive ones. Not sure why. Oh well. I woudl rather see what we have in JWilliams and finally decide if he can be a player in this league.

 

[Glenn]

Among other things, the problem that I have with the whole salary cap premise is that quality free agents (read: star-caliber players) don't want to come here, and they're not going to want to come here in 2010, either. The two most viable options for getting a star player are drafting one and trading one and, frankly, our chances are rather better in the draft.

Actually I agree and am about to change my mind which is unheard of on KingsFans.com - some sign of lack of manhood or something.

The Kings upgrades have come through trade what with Webber and Bibby being the last two. One came via free agency and that was Vlade. In a trade, it requires risk as no team is going to trade a super star who also is a good citizen - that's how we got Webber.

Drafting one requires all the planets to be aligned and a perfect storm of good luck. Drafting might be the best way to get ONE star but when all the arguing is over, aren't we stuck? Isn't the probability of developing a championship quality team just a pipe dream?

 

[kupman]

Isn't the probability of developing a championship quality team just a pipe dream?

I would not say that it is a pipe dream. However, I would say that the chances are roughly 1 out of 30.

 

[Glenn]

I would not say that it is a pipe dream. However, I would say that the chances are roughly 1 out of 30.

It assumes equality of possibilities. I think large market teams have an advantage over small market teams. I'm not even sure if that is arguable.

 

[kupman]

It assumes equality of possibilities. I think large market teams have an advantage over small market teams. I'm not even sure if that is arguable.

I was mostly just joking around to show that building a championship quality team is actually quite difficult. It seems that is often times forgotten. But more to your point, I agree - this is why I included the term "roughly."

 

['89 Kings Fan]

Totally absurd. We are far from being in the worst situation in the league.

What makes our situation in probably the bottom 5, is that we have already achieved our maximum potential at 33 wins with this roster. Looking down our roster barring trade where is the improvement going to come from.

1. Martin when he comes back he was already a top 10 scorer.
2. Artest already playing at a high level.
3. Salmons I don't think he can achieve any more as a starter and can he do it off the bench?
4. Miller already having a career resurgence.
5. Bibby is not going to go back to being a 20ppg scorer, and when do we play Beno?
6. Mikki 8 pts and 5 boards is about all we can expect from him.
7. Francisco already a good sixth man/energy guy he might be as good as Hedo if he gets his head on straight. Already led our team in blocks one year.
8. Beno playing great, but when Bibby gets back can we really play Bibby/Beno together like we used to with Bobby? And he is also gone next year since there is no way we can pay him.
9. Hawes at this point I put his ceiling at Raef Lafrentz. 3-point shooting center with knee problems. Maybe he will be a little bit better, but remember Raef was drafted 3rd after Bibby.
10. Douby I was hopping he would turn into Bobby Jackson part 2. But it looks like his ceiling might be more Tyronne Lue.
11. SAR Already out for the season, doubt he will ever matter again.
12. Kenny Right now he has a PER of 3.41 in about 12min/Game
To put that in perspective Ryan Bowen has PER of 5.2 in 12/game
Or course it could be worse Mark Blount has a PER of 2.82 in 11/Game.
13. Justin Williams actually has the highest PER on the team (it might just be small sample size) but since we refuse to play him its a moot point.
14. Dahntay Jones I really like his hustle and leaping but if in 4 years in the NBA if you don't have a jump shot, he is 10th man at best.

Some games against inferior opponents are fun to watch, but I would be happier if we had some sort of strategy and fun to watch. Watching Price and Williams last year I thought we were going to develop some young talent but that apparently fell through. I think developing young players and being fun to watch are not mutually exclusive, but in fact go hand in hand at this stage.

 

[Gary]

What makes our situation in probably the bottom 5, is that we have already achieved our maximum potential at 33 wins with this roster. Looking down our roster barring trade where is the improvement going to come from.

1. Martin when he comes back he was already a top 10 scorer.
2. Artest already playing at a high level.
3. Salmons I don't think he can achieve any more as a starter and can he do it off the bench?
4. Miller already having a career resurgence.
5. Bibby is not going to go back to being a 20ppg scorer, and when do we play Beno?
6. Mikki 8 pts and 5 boards is about all we can expect from him.
7. Francisco already a good sixth man/energy guy he might be as good as Hedo if he gets his head on straight. Already led our team in blocks one year.
8. Beno playing great, but when Bibby gets back can we really play Bibby/Beno together like we used to with Bobby? And he is also gone next year since there is no way we can pay him.
9. Hawes at this point I put his ceiling at Raef Lafrentz. 3-point shooting center with knee problems. Maybe he will be a little bit better, but remember Raef was drafted 3rd after Bibby.
10. Douby I was hopping he would turn into Bobby Jackson part 2. But it looks like his ceiling might be more Tyronne Lue.
11. SAR Already out for the season, doubt he will ever matter again.
12. Kenny Right now he has a PER of 3.41 in about 12min/Game
To put that in perspective Ryan Bowen has PER of 5.2 in 12/game
Or course it could be worse Mark Blount has a PER of 2.82 in 11/Game.
13. Justin Williams actually has the highest PER on the team (it might just be small sample size) but since we refuse to play him its a moot point.
14. Dahntay Jones I really like his hustle and leaping but if in 4 years in the NBA if you don't have a jump shot, he is 10th man at best.

Some games against inferior opponents are fun to watch, but I would be happier if we had some sort of strategy and fun to watch. Watching Price and Williams last year I thought we were going to develop some young talent but that apparently fell through. I think developing young players and being fun to watch are not mutually exclusive, but in fact go hand in hand at this stage.

We are SO not bottom 5 situation wise in the league. the main reason is that we can lose lpayers and still be competative. We lot our PG, and can still compete. We lost our top scorer, and our bench picks up the slack.

There are a lot of teams that if they lose their top scorer, or PG would fall into oblivion. We have a lot of pieces to work with which puts us into adecent situation trade wise.

1. Martin is playing at a hig level, but is no leader on this team, he compliments a good post player by hitting outside shots, and slashing to the basket.
2. Artest is playing at a high level, and has leadership abilityies, but I feel he does not make this team any better than it would be w/o him. Now put in a PF that can rebound, and defend, a PG who plays well w/ Artest's type of style, than you have a good team. But as it stands there is no chemistry on the floor w/ Artest, and the rest of the bunch.
3. ?? what? Salmons playes 3x better startin than off the bench. Salmons is the type of player every team needs.. But he might be too small to start at PF full time. He's a good SG though. Good defender.
4. True statement about Miller. He is playing much better than last year. He seems energized. I still think he can be valuable, but not a difference maker on a team.
5. Bibby will be back, and Beno will come off the bench. Bibby is still better than Beno as a pure PG. Beno is a great find, but is a spot starter/bench player on a contender.. At best.
6. Moore is a bench player. We agree on his. He is an energy type player which is tailor made for the bench.

skipping to #9 - Hawes is not a Raef.. Sorry.. Hawes is 19 years old, and already has a good post game. Hawes suffers from "7 minutes a game syndrome". He's tryign to do too much in the 7 minutes he gets. Once he gets more time you will see his post game develop. The kid is nothing like LaFrentz.

 

[Dime Dropper]

We are SO not bottom 5 situation wise in the league. the main reason is that we can lose lpayers and still be competative. We lot our PG, and can still compete. We lost our top scorer, and our bench picks up the slack.

There are a lot of teams that if they lose their top scorer, or PG would fall into oblivion. We have a lot of pieces to work with which puts us into adecent situation trade wise.

1. Martin is playing at a hig level, but is no leader on this team, he compliments a good post player by hitting outside shots, and slashing to the basket.
2. Artest is playing at a high level, and has leadership abilityies, but I feel he does not make this team any better than it would be w/o him. Now put in a PF that can rebound, and defend, a PG who plays well w/ Artest's type of style, than you have a good team. But as it stands there is no chemistry on the floor w/ Artest, and the rest of the bunch.
3. ?? what? Salmons playes 3x better startin than off the bench. Salmons is the type of player every team needs.. But he might be too small to start at PF full time. He's a good SG though. Good defender.
4. True statement about Miller. He is playing much better than last year. He seems energized. I still think he can be valuable, but not a difference maker on a team.
5. Bibby will be back, and Beno will come off the bench. Bibby is still better than Beno as a pure PG. Beno is a great find, but is a spot starter/bench player on a contender.. At best.
6. Moore is a bench player. We agree on his. He is an energy type player which is tailor made for the bench.

skipping to #9 - Hawes is not a Raef.. Sorry.. Hawes is 19 years old, and already has a good post game. Hawes suffers from "7 minutes a game syndrome". He's tryign to do too much in the 7 minutes he gets. Once he gets more time you will see his post game develop. The kid is nothing like LaFrentz.

He's talking about just situation, while you seem to be thinking about how many games the team can win. Teams that can't do what you say we can (eg. have bench players step up etc.) usually have an excuse - they're all young guys learning. Not saying that's how it is and always will be, but I would definetly agree that we're not in a good position right now.

 

[Entity]

He's talking about just situation, while you seem to be thinking about how many games the team can win. Teams that can't do what you say we can (eg. have bench players step up etc.) usually have an excuse - they're all young guys learning. Not saying that's how it is and always will be, but I would definetly agree that we're not in a good position right now.

Yet 2 years ago going by this theory you and others have Chicago would be in the best situation. Hinrich, Deng, Gordan, Duhon, Ty Thomas, Ben Wallace, Noah. Yet they are one of the worst teams in the league. They have built throgh the draft for years now and still have nothing to show for it. potential only last so long then you need proven players which is why they got Wallace and it paid off for 1 season now they youngsters still aren't paying off for them and they suck.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Yet 2 years ago going by this theory you and others have Chicago would be in the best situation. Hinrich, Deng, Gordan, Duhon, Ty Thomas, Ben Wallace, Noah. Yet they are one of the worst teams in the league. They have built throgh the draft for years now and still have nothing to show for it. potential only last so long then you need proven players which is why they got Wallace and it paid off for 1 season now they youngsters still aren't paying off for them and they suck.

When did I ever say Chicago were in the best situation? Stop saying things to suit yourself. Out of all those players you named, only one can be considered old. Wallace. A far cry from our team. They are loaded with talent. But the one thing they're missing, which I have always said you need, is a superstar. They have every other position filled. You're also leaving out other young talent/role players like Sefolosha and Nocioni.

Are you saying you would take this Kings team over that Bulls team? They have heaps of time to improve,they're just going through a rough patch. They're a very young, and talented team. Deny it all you want, but this team is not going to trade for a Webber anytime soon, we do not have cap space until 2010. Which leaves two options: A) Try to get more youngsters and get a better draft pick or B) Do nothing for two years.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I just am of the opinion that the former is the better way to go.

 

['89 Kings Fan]

We are SO not bottom 5 situation wise in the league. the main reason is that we can lose lpayers and still be competative. We lot our PG, and can still compete. We lost our top scorer, and our bench picks up the slack.

I do not think you misunderstood my point. My point is it seems like we are playing to the limits of our ability and our peak ability is a 30-34 win team. I was trying to make the point that even when Martin and Bibby come back they are only marginally better than the players they are replacing, Salmons and Beno. I was examining our roster to point out that we might have the least potential in the entire league besides the usual suspects, New York, Miami and Milwaukee.

skipping to #9 - Hawes is not a Raef.. Sorry.. Hawes is 19 years old, and already has a good post game. Hawes suffers from "7 minutes a game syndrome". He's tryign to do too much in the 7 minutes he gets. Once he gets more time you will see his post game develop. The kid is nothing like LaFrentz.

1st of all until he gets his shooting percentage above 40% then we can talk about his great post moves. 2nd until he has a game like this:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/DEN20010418.html
we cannot consider him as good as LaFrentz. My point was even if he turns into LaFrentz in his prime next year, that still makes us only an 8th seed at best.

 

[carmichaeldave]

Ok.. Your take on Artest I kind of agree with. We can clear about 7 mil if we let him walk. What's the difference if we get a player for Artest or not? Unless he is a starting PF than it's just useless.

Your take on Bibby is kind of skewed. I think KT is untradeable. EVEN with Bibby. I woudl rather tell KT to go home, or accept a buyout and have the chance to play for another team. That's probably more realistic than a trade.

I think you misunderstood. No one is going to trade for Bibby AND KT, that's why I was joking about it. However, with Artest relatively cheap, and high on value, you MAY just get someone to bite on him and KT in a package. That in itself is not outlandish. If you trade Bibby to Miami or Cleveland let's say, and trade Artest and KT to whomever, and god forbid get Boston to plug Brad Miller in, you've had a more successful season than if you made the WCFs.

That last paragraph about playing Beno/Martin/Salmons/Hawes/Garcia for 40 minutes is kind of....... well.... When you have a guy in Miller who has worked his *** off to get back into playing shape, and is now (since Martin has been injured) picking up a ton of the slack, you gotta play him. He is putting up about 19ppg/9rpg/3.5apg. That's pretty damn good for a center. Hawes will get his chance whether it be because of an injury or whatever.. He will get a chance to play, and this time behind Miller is just as valuable because he is learning. A good thing as well that has come of this is that Miller is now becoming more and more tradeable. He used to be blacklisted but the numbers he has put up are really injecting value into Miller again.

That's my point. So what? The ONLY logical reason to play Brad at this point is to showcase him for a trade. So what if he worked hard? He makes 11 million a year, he'd better. As far as him making the team better, who cares? He doenst factor in to the team's future, so showcase and trade him.

 

[kupman]

I think you misunderstood. No one is going to trade for Bibby AND KT, that's why I was joking about it. However, with Artest relatively cheap, and high on value, you MAY just get someone to bite on him and KT in a package. That in itself is not outlandish. If you trade Bibby to Miami or Cleveland let's say, and trade Artest and KT to whomever, and god forbid get Boston to plug Brad Miller in, you've had a more successful season than if you made the WCFs.

It is not outlandish, but I think that it is far from easy. The idea is simple, but very hard to pull-off in the real world (in fact, making the WCFs may be easier). I am pretty sure that GP has had a giant "For Sale" sign on the heads of Artest, K-9 and Bibby for at least 1 year now, but yet no one is real eager to make the trade.....hmm, I wonder why?