Playoff-quality

What does that have to do with anything?

My point is that the only challenge that matters is advancing in the playoffs, that should be the only goal; not just making them and getting knocked out in the first round, that accomplishes nothing.

In the early history of the Kings, the fans would have killed just to make the playoffs. I was just wondering how much of the history of this team that you are intimately aware of. I believe it can effect your views. You don't have to answer of course.

I do not share your opinion.
 
dime dropper said:
We are possibly in the worst situation of all the teams in the NBA. And here you are wanting to continue drifting, wandering into complete oblivion until we are completely forced into making a change for the better.

Totally absurd. We are far from being in the worst situation in the league.
 
Playoff revenues

Ok, I've been reading up on this thread (many good points, y'all) and I wonder what are the playoff revenues for each round of the playoffs? For each team, surely, the playoff revenues must be in the millions, so that enables a team to get better players, yes?


This coming Jan, 2008, is a most-critical month for the Kings franchise, I sense. Good play with a good number of wins by the Kings will be vital for Petrie to be able to pull off good trades for good players and, hopefully, he'd be able to package the abominable KT, the antediluvian SAR along with a good trade. Good, progressively-improving play of the Kings would show that the coaching is of high-caliber, so that would be a good draw for quality players who wish to impact a team in positive ways.


For the team so tank and suck at this time would be useless. The current Kings are too good to totally tank and suck, so they might as well play hard to win and progressively get better as the season goes along. If the Kings get better and better progressively with wins in more and more games with other playoff-quality teams, then the Kings stand a better chance of enabling GP to make a block-buster trade or two that can catapult the Kings into being a dangerous playoff challenger.


The Kings themselves--and Coach T--have stated that they believe that are a playoff-quality team, so there. Mark my words, they will be in the playoffs this season and for a number of the next several seasons. Theus will be the big draw/reason for this--and future--season's success.


In this season, I've seen consistently progressive improvement with the Kings in every phase of the game, so I am now confident that this kind of progressive improvement will continue--and this is a lot due to good coaching, as well as players putting out sincere effort.


The big question that I have still remains: how much is the playoff revenue for each team during each round?
 
I would like to see how good this team is when the other 40% of its starting 5 is healthy.

I doubt they are going to be much better when they get Martin and Bibby back. On paper, they'll be a tad better because of depth, which will help on back-to-backs. But the primary area of need is in the frontcourt and Bibby and Martin don't help in defend the paint/rebound the ball/low post score role. Also, I would be surprised if Bibby and Martin come back to seamlessly fit into the Kings rotation. It could take weeks for both Bibby and Martin to get in the groove. In the meantime Salmons and Garcia and Beno's minutes diminish. Those guys could be in a basketball funk when they don't go their minutes...
 
Ok, I've been reading up on this thread (many good points, y'all) and I wonder what are the playoff revenues for each round of the playoffs? For each team, surely, the playoff revenues must be in the millions, so that enables a team to get better players, yes?

Not necessarily. It doesn't change the cap for that team. If the owners don't want to spend it they won't. And recently, NOBODY is paying the luxury tax (by nobody I mean maybe a handful of teams like the Knicks and the Mavs).
 
Not necessarily. It doesn't change the cap for that team. If the owners don't want to spend it they won't. And recently, NOBODY is paying the luxury tax (by nobody I mean maybe a handful of teams like the Knicks and the Mavs).

5 teams are paying luxury tax and it is possible with Martin's new contract that the Kings may pay a small amount next year.

Knicks are paying $45 mil in luxury tax which goes to show ya the luxury a big market team has. They can be way over the limit and still suck. :) Hilarious mismanagement of a team.

Of course having more money doesn't change the salary cap but with all the exceptions to the cap, there is still plenty of opportunity to spend money if you've got it to spend. I believe that's what all the griping about the use of the MLE is about. Whether you agree with spending that money or not, the Maloofs were willing to spend it. Next year there will be a monetary decision about extending Cisco's contract.







At least I know what I mean. :eek:
 
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Totally absurd. We are far from being in the worst situation in the league.


Care to elaborate? They're are very few teams in a worse situation that us. The Knicks are possibly the only team I can think of. That doesn't seem far from the worst to me.

We can paint it purple all we want, we are not near contenders now, nor do we have an exciting, promising young team.


And you think NOT signing people like Salmons and Moore and totally sucking will make us look like what? What?

We will have cap space in two years and nothing we have done in the last two years could have changed that. The MLE signings are irrelevant to that. The only thing that the MLE signings have done is improve our team.

If you are not willing to listen, why converse?


Why do you care if we suck? It's called rebuilding. Signing role players to big long contracts does nothing except hurt future cap space, get us a worse pick, pro-long the rebuilding process and hamper the few young guys we have.
What good has possibly come out of those signings?

Nothing could have changed? Well, lets see. GP could trade for other expirings that year to gain more space (not saying he hasn't tried). It's clear you'll believe what you want to believe, you're the one going to end up disappointed the next few years when we don't make the POs.

I have listened to the same argument on here for the last few years, mainly from the same posters. I have weighed each possible direction equally and going your way is going to achieve nothing. This is all just my opinion, and not to be taken personally.
 
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Care to elaborate? They're are very few teams in a worse situation that us. The Knicks are possibly the only team I can think of. That doesn't seem far from the worst to me.

We can paint it purple all we want, we are not near contenders now, nor do we have an exciting, promising young team.





Why do you care if we suck? You seem like a fairweather fan to me. It's called rebuilding. Signing role players to big long contracts does nothing except hurt future cap space, get us a worse pick, pro-long the rebuilding process and hamper the few young guys we have.
What good has possibly come out of those signings?

Nothing could have changed? Well, lets see. GP could trade for other expirings that year to gain more space (not saying he hasn't tried). It's clear you'll believe what you want to believe, you're the one going to end up disappointed the next few years when we don't make the POs.

I have listened to the same argument on here for the last few years, mainly from the same posters. I have weighed each possible direction equally and going your way is going to achieve nothing. This is all just my opinion, and not to be taken personally.

You think the Heat are better off?

As far as having a young, exciting team goes, I guess you need to actually watch the games to see what I've seen. This team - even with the short-comings - IS FUN to watch!

As an aside, please knock off the "fair weather fan" accusations. They don't belong around here. People are entitled to view the team in different ways without having their "fan status" questioned.
 
In the early history of the Kings, the fans would have killed just to make the playoffs. I was just wondering how much of the history of this team that you are intimately aware of. I believe it can effect your views. You don't have to answer of course.

I do not share your opinion.

I've been a kings fan since about 98. This is my opinion as a basketball fan though.
 
You think the Heat are better off?

As far as having a young, exciting team goes, I guess you need to actually watch the games to see what I've seen. This team - even with the short-comings - IS FUN to watch!

As an aside, please knock off the "fair weather fan" accusations. They don't belong around here. People are entitled to view the team in different ways without having their "fan status" questioned.


Probably, depends what way you look at it. They came away with a 'ship a couple years ago, most teams go through a stage afterwards of re-shaping. Their situation is kinda unique though, what with Shaq taking up half the payroll. They also have a young superstar, something we don't have. That one is down to opinion.

I know the Kings are fun to watch, we wouldn't be fans if we didn't enjoy watching them play. However, my point was that we are not a team on the rise. We are not not a team doing anything. We need a purpose/goal to work towards.

I will not make a comment such as that one again, but I don't retract it.
People are not looking at the bigger picture and are actually hoping we mess up our future even more than it is now.
 
There is an assumption that there is only one way of developing a team and of course, it's the way of the person writing the note.

Those people who jumped on the bandwagon when the Kings had a great team or were entering high school at that time will have a perspective different than those who have been a fan of the NBA for 50 years or so. There may be 10 different ideas about how to develop this team.

A little less arrogance and a little more willingness to listen to a different point of view would make this far more interesting. Simply saying the same thing over and over and implying a lack of mental capacity for those who do not fall down in awe at this repetitive yammering is useless on a board that has thrived on the discussion of issues.

I understand the point of view of developing via young folks but I think we have already passed that fork in the road. Can we deal with what IS and not what SHOULD HAVE BEEN? Besides, Udrih, Cisco, Hawes, Douby, Jones, Williams, and Martin are young. That's about half the team. As these people mature, the team will get better.
 
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I definitely don't think we're the worst situation in the league and I do think we have a shot at the playoffs. Do I really care if we make it? Depends on the situation. But look on the bright side, Miller/Salmons etc. all are getting positive trade value by playing well.
 
A little less arrogance and a little more willingness to listen to a different point of view would make this far more interesting. Simply saying the same thing over and over and implying a lack of mental capacity for those who do not fall down in awe at this repetitive yammering is useless on a board that has thrived on the discussion of issues.

I understand the point of view of developing via young folks but I think we have already passed that fork in the road. Can we deal with what IS and not what SHOULD HAVE BEEN? Besides, Udrih, Cisco, Hawes, Douby, Jones, Williams, and Martin are young. That's about half the team. As these people mature, the team will get better.


I apologise if I came across as arrogance, that wasn't my intention, I've never thought, and never will think, that I'm above someone else.

I've just heard the same type of argument that you've been putting across for a long time and I don't agree with it. That doesn't mean I'm right. We're all entitled to our opinions.

Of the players you've name, only about two are starter quality on a 'ship team, Hawes and Martin. That's my guess, the others may surprise us. But we need to build elite talent through the draft and let them mesh together, that along with some savvy signings in a few years will help us get back in contention. That's my opinion, anyway.


:)


Merry Christmas to all!
 
You forgot about the Twolves, Bobcats and possibly the Bulls.

I think the bulls easily have a better young core than us and they're more financially flexible, obviously a lot depends on whether they keep Gordon and Deng though. The twolves are borderline, but they are prime to get a top 4 pick, they have cap flexibility and an all-star big to build around. Charlotte isn't that bad, they have a very solid starting rotation; if they can draft a solid center and grap a couple role players they're good to go. They have cap flexibilty and a good young core to build around.
 
Like I have said a number of times, starting with my first "optimistic" post early in the season, the Kings are a PLAYOFF-QUALITY TEAM in the making!


Any questions?

Been reading the replies and I will agree with your post. I believe the Kings are a playoff quality team in the making sort of (read below). We are probably a healthy Bibby, and Martin away from .500. I was thinking 25 wins when the year started. Boy was I off. This is a .500 team when all is healthy.

The part that I am not agreeing with is that I don't think this team is considered "in the making". I have a feeling that a couple major pieces will be torn from this team, and we will get a bit worse before we get a bit better.
 
Say what you want about Durant, but Seattle is in a pretty crappy situation too. And that goes beyond basketball. Charlotte isn't worse that us, but Jordan is helping steer that ship so it might go down eventually. Miami is definitely in a horrible situation because that young superstar they have won't want to be there much longer because he has like 2 teammates that are younger than him and he is 25.
 
I have a feeling that a couple major pieces will be torn from this team, and we will get a bit worse before we get a bit better.

That is the hard part, like ripping off a band-aid (think someone else may have used that). My fear is that the Maloofs will try and avoid the pain longer than needed. I'd rather go there sooner than later and I agree the Kings will need to get worse before they are contending for anything. At the same time I am not ready to let go of Martin or Artest as of yet. Move the rest for all I care.
 
Those people who jumped on the bandwagon when the Kings had a great team or were entering high school at that time will have a perspective different than those who have been a fan of the NBA for 50 years or so. There may be 10 different ideas about how to develop this team.

A little less arrogance and a little more willingness to listen to a different point of view would make this far more interesting.

just a note, questioning how long someone has been a fan also comes off as arrogant. being a new fan to the team or to the game does not invalidate what a person's opinion is.
 
just a note, questioning how long someone has been a fan also comes off as arrogant. being a new fan to the team or to the game does not invalidate what a person's opinion is.

The length of being a fan does not make an opinion more valid or not. I hope I didn't say that because that is not what I believe. I am suggesting that it very well may effect the type of opinion one has re: rebuilding. Different experiences and all that stuff. I also think it is bull rot that there is only one true way of rebuilding a team.

Perhaps I was only trying to explain to myself why different people seem to have such entrenched and opposing views while at the same time there is no proof that one opinion as more valid than another.

_____

Addendum: It may appear from my use of the word bandwagon that I am demeaning someone. Not so. We all get on one bandwagon or the other. It's human nature to watch what is great and exciting. When we had Webber, Vlade, Williams, etc, many people became fans of the Kings and then just persisted as fans. It's great that the Kings attracted fans from all over the world. They are different from long term fans, usually residents of the Sacto area, in that they may have less loyalty and are likely to abandon ship if the excitement does not persist. Therefore they may be more impatient.
 
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I would also like to add, in Glenn's defense, that how long you've been a fan of a team/sport has jack and **** to do with how much you know about its history. Knowledge/appreciation of the team's history doesn't have anything to do with how long you've been around here.
 
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