Petries job in doubt?

[Return To Glory]

As others have said in this thread, very little will change unless the Maloofs are gone. I'm hoping Petrie is retained for a while more. I just don't trust the Maloofs ability to hire a competent replacement GM. They'll probably hire John Whisenant as the new GM.

 

[Glenn]

As others have said in this thread, very little will change unless the Maloofs are gone. I'm hoping Petrie is retained for a while more. I just don't trust the Maloofs ability to hire a competent replacement GM. They'll probably hire John Whisenant as the new GM.

Jerry Reynolds was the GM for the Monarchs.

 

[BLNINJA #81]

What's Jerry West doing these days?

 

[JB_kings]

Jerry Reynolds was the GM for the Monarchs.

Reynolds retired as GM in 2003. Whisenant followed him and later added coaching to his duties. Currently Whis is back in the WNBA with the NY Liberty as coach. That is the perfect place for him.

 

[Section 101]

What's Jerry West doing these days?

Working for the Warriors.

Dell Demps should be the target.

 

[IfAt1st]

I wish I knew who was more responsible for Westy's tenure. Was it heavy restrictions put on Petrie in the first place, and the Maloofs gave him an incredibly low budget to get a head coach, or was Westy the man the Maloofs wanted. Then, who kept him here for over 2 years? Was it more Petrie, who wanted Westy and continued to back that decision, or was it the Maloofs all the way, and simply didn't want to spend on another head coach?

I wish I knew, because if it was Petrie who wanted Westy, and it was Petrie who kept him here a few weeks into this season, then the complete lack of teaching/development/system over 2+ seasons falls at the feet of Petrie. If that were true, it's not just the last off season which was a disaster, but the last 2+ years as well.

Let's reason this one out.

The Maloofs were pretty clearly the hirers of Musselman.
I think most people think they were instrumental in hiring Theus.
Natt was a complete void, directly caused because the ORGANIZATION (primarily Petrie) didn't have a capable assistant ready to take the reins in case things blew up (which they of course did).

Enter Westphal.

I really, really, REALLY doubt that the Maloofs picked Westphal.
He has Petrie's fingerprints ALL over him.
Older guy, "seasoned", player's coach, easygoing, passive, etc.

IIRC, Petrie went out of his way to make it clear that Westphal was his man especially around the time the Kings picked up Westphal's contract option.
Here's an article littered with how close Petrie and Westphal were, and how the team was all their picks:
http://ecink.net/2010/04/12/kings-pick-up-option-on-paul-westphals-contract/
Cisco is the ONLY King remaining that pre-dates Petrie and Westphal's direct decisions.

This current roster debacle cannot reasonably be placed at the feet of the Maloofs.
If we are concluding that the last 2 years was an utter waste of learning time that hasn't coalesced into a competitive team, than Petrie and the FO, as well as the current assistant coaches and trainer(s) on the team, are to blame MUCH more than the Maloofs, who do not make the day-to-day decisions for the team.

 

[JB_kings]

Let's reason this one out.

The Maloofs were pretty clearly the hirers of Musselman.
I think most people think they were instrumental in hiring Theus.
Natt was a complete void, directly caused because the ORGANIZATION (primarily Petrie) didn't have a capable assistant ready to take the reins in case things blew up (which they of course did).

Enter Westphal.

I really, really, REALLY doubt that the Maloofs picked Westphal.
He has Petrie's fingerprints ALL over him.
Older guy, "seasoned", player's coach, easygoing, passive, etc.

IIRC, Petrie went out of his way to make it clear that Westphal was his man especially around the time the Kings picked up Westphal's contract option.
Here's an article littered with how close Petrie and Westphal were, and how the team was all their picks:
http://ecink.net/2010/04/12/kings-pick-up-option-on-paul-westphals-contract/
Cisco is the ONLY King remaining that pre-dates Petrie and Westphal's direct decisions.

This current roster debacle cannot reasonably be placed at the feet of the Maloofs.
If we are concluding that the last 2 years was an utter waste of learning time that hasn't coalesced into a competitive team, than Petrie and the FO, as well as the current assistant coaches and trainer(s) on the team, are to blame MUCH more than the Maloofs, who do not make the day-to-day decisions for the team.

You forgot part of your reasoning. It was in print at the time of the coaching search. The Maloofs put a cap on the money that could be spent on the coach salary. I forget the amount, but it was a joke and at the bottom of the league in coach salary. Even before Westpahl accepted, a lot of coaches were excluded because they wouldn't even interview for that low pay.

 

[whozit]

If I remember correctly, the team was looking better at the end of Westphal's first year. The team picked up the Westphal's option in the name of continuity to promote stability since the previous coaching hires were less than stellar. Stupid mistake in hindsight but understandable at the time.

As far as replacing Petrie be careful of what you ask for, the team doesn't need an Adleman part II.

Get new ownership and then consider it.

 

[JB_kings]

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/01/06/4167042/westphal-timeline.html

After Los Angeles Lakers assistant Kurt Rambis turns down their offer, the Kings hire Paul Westphal as their 11th (non-interim) coach in the Sacramento era and 23rd in franchise history. He signs a three-year contract that pays him $1.5 million (among the league's lowest) annually in the first two seasons. The third is a team option at $2 million.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2012/01/06/4167042/westphal-timeline.html#storylink=cpy

 

[JB_kings]

http://weaksideawareness.wordpress.com/2011/06/09/salary-and-contracts-of-nba-coaches/

Interesting. Each year since Adelman left, the coaches salary has gone down. Even Theus was paid more than Westphal. Adelman was paid 6.86 million. Westphal made 1.5 last year and 2 this year.

 

[rainmaker]

Let's reason this one out.

The Maloofs were pretty clearly the hirers of Musselman.
I think most people think they were instrumental in hiring Theus.
Natt was a complete void, directly caused because the ORGANIZATION (primarily Petrie) didn't have a capable assistant ready to take the reins in case things blew up (which they of course did).

Enter Westphal.

I really, really, REALLY doubt that the Maloofs picked Westphal.
He has Petrie's fingerprints ALL over him.
Older guy, "seasoned", player's coach, easygoing, passive, etc.

IIRC, Petrie went out of his way to make it clear that Westphal was his man especially around the time the Kings picked up Westphal's contract option.
Here's an article littered with how close Petrie and Westphal were, and how the team was all their picks:
http://ecink.net/2010/04/12/kings-pick-up-option-on-paul-westphals-contract/
Cisco is the ONLY King remaining that pre-dates Petrie and Westphal's direct decisions.

This current roster debacle cannot reasonably be placed at the feet of the Maloofs.
If we are concluding that the last 2 years was an utter waste of learning time that hasn't coalesced into a competitive team, than Petrie and the FO, as well as the current assistant coaches and trainer(s) on the team, are to blame MUCH more than the Maloofs, who do not make the day-to-day decisions for the team.

While I'm convinced Petrie bears and is responsible for a lot of the issues/problems we currently have, I'd also say if the Maloofs are putting a cap on everything, and that cap doesn't allow us to be competitive in the coaching search or FA search, then even though it's a single aspect of all of this, it's an aspect which directly effects everything else.

 

['89 Kings Fan]

Who do you replace him with!?

Bricklayer?

Quite frankly you could take any random Kingsfan poster and they would do about as good a job as Petrie.

Winning% from 06-07 to present (Post Adelman era)

27. Clippers.360
28. Nets .353
29. Kings .332
30. Timberwolves .277

I did better than Kahn isn't much of an endorsement, especially since the T-Wolves are 9-11 this year and moving up.

Quite frankly at this point the only people they should keep in the organization is Gary Gerould and Bobby Jackson.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Who do you replace him with!?
Bricklayer?

The good part is Dalembert would be on the team. The bad part is Brick would have given him 5 years/$100 million.

 

[King Baller]

I think you have to stick with GP until the arena issue is settled. If the Kings end up moving I think GP will retire from the Kings. If the arena is built the Maloofs may sell the Kings. A new owner may appreciate what Petrie can do and spend the money to let him do it. Remember Petrie is not spending his own money.

Folks the Kings fired their Coach. Now you want the GM's head???

KB

 

[IfAt1st]

IMO, it's a big fat excuse to say "Petrie couldn't hire a good coach because the Maloofs wouldn't pay the $"

Bull****.

Wanna know why?

Because the Maloofs, first and foremost, are businessmen.

And businessmen would have listened when Petrie SHOULD have told them - "Look, guys - we can pay bottom $ for a weak coach, but from my experience, if we're planning on rebuilding thru the draft, the coach HAS to be able to develop and teach the players, by instilling in them the skills and qualities they'll need to become stars and implement a system that youngsters with little experience can digest.
If we don't get a serious coach who can develop talent, we're going to be wasting YEARS of your precious investment dollar, and risk the entire franchise's present and future value just because you wanted to save a few million bucks."

Is that too much knowledge to expect from a guy making millions of dollars like Petrie is?
He HAS to know what a rebuild thru the draft looks like, walks like, and needs to talk like.
If he doesn't, why is he there, making big bucks himself?

No businessmen would listen to a reasoned, credible argument like that and say, "Na - the few million bucks we can save by skimping on a real coach is more important than the vastly increased moneys we can make if and when this team turns around and becomes competitive again."

I'm not buying it.

Petrie's JOB is to do this kind of stuff - rebuild.
He's the expert.
He's the professional at it.
He was obviously OK with selecting Westphal as the coach.
I'm not buying this "It was all the Maloofs fault" BS.

 

[Larry David]

Petrie hides behind the Maloofs problems, and the Maloofs can do some of the same. Finally, things have gotten so bad that Petrie will fall but not without some merit.

Maloofs are out of cards. No move and the team slides further into irrelevance locally. Fire Petrie and no more cover.

 

[VF21]

Because the Maloofs, first and foremost, are businessmen.

That's not really a valid premise for your argument.

The Maloofs INHERITED wealth and business. If you compare what it/they were worth 15 years ago with what it/they are worth now, discounting the general economic situation, i would argue that while they are businessmen, it's pretty obvious they aren't very good businessmen.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

maloofs are dip****s. they hired muss and fired him in what 2 years? i'm pretty sure he had at least a 3 year contract. so essentially on the hook for the remainder of the contract after they canned him. they go hire theuss for i believe it was 3 years. so the first year of theuss's contract + muss last year of contract. how long did theuss last? 2 yrs? it's no wonder they can't afford any real talent... they are still paying for the ones sitting at home collectin a paycheck. westphal gettin paid handsomely to chill at home collectin that 2 mill contract.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

maloofs are dip****s. they hired muss and fired him in what 2 years? i'm pretty sure he had at least a 3 year contract. so essentially on the hook for the remainder of the contract after they canned him. they go hire theuss for i believe it was 3 years. so the first year of theuss's contract + muss last year of contract. how long did theuss last? 2 yrs? it's no wonder they can't afford any real talent... they are still paying for the ones sitting at home collectin a paycheck. westphal gettin paid handsomely to chill at home collectin that 2 mill contract.

I'm pretty sure Musslemen only lasted one year.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

I'm pretty sure Musslemen only lasted one year.

so the maloofs were paying his contract for 2 more years on top of theuss's starting contract. SWEET! powerpoint presentations FTW

 

[Löwenherz]

Because the Maloofs, first and foremost, are broke businessmen.

Adjectives can be important.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

so the maloofs were paying his contract for 2 more years on top of theuss's starting contract. SWEET! powerpoint presentations FTW

All that overlapping pay for fired bad coaches probably ended up costing them more than if they'd just paid a real coach to begin with.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

All that overlapping pay for fired bad coaches probably ended up costing them more than if they'd just paid a real coach to begin with.

that's how the vegas boys roll!

 

[IfAt1st]

That's not really a valid premise for your argument.

The Maloofs INHERITED wealth and business.

I'm just not buying the conspiracy theory that everything is the Maloofs fault because "they're bad businessmen."

That's just too convenient, superficial, and simplistic. (I'm not saying you're simplistic, VF21 - just using your response as a springboard for discussion)

And it's discounting the fact that to businesspeople, it's about the money.
And if Petrie made an argument centered around them LOSING money if they hire a coach who can't develop young players, there's little chance they wouldn't listen, even if they're "bad businessmen".

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

All that overlapping pay for fired bad coaches probably ended up costing them more than if they'd just paid a real coach to begin with.

Thus is not logic with any Maloof...they who built 2 more casino/hotel/condo mega towers during a recession, when...if they would have stayed the course with the very successful ONE Palms tower they probably would have been okay, and in better control of their BASKETBALL TEAM! Just sayin'...

 

[Sac.1989]

This is pure desperation from the Maloofs. Rid the one loyal guy whose stuck it out while operating at the bare minimum.

Sure hes got his faults but its a joke that they are even considering moving him on when the problem lays at their feet

 

[Prince_XY]

Geoff, over the last few years, has made some very poor decisions in FA and with trades. On the other hand, he's drafted very well. He's a relatively safe GM to have, won't do anything majorly stupid, but isn't going to be aggressive like he should be with a rebuilding team.

If he hasn't done major stupid moves, then we wouldn't be complaining in this board. It is exactly all those stupid trades/moves that he allowed over the past several years now that is the reason for making this thread.

Also, being not-so-aggressive as a GM is probably one of the worst traits of Petrie that makes this team dwell at the bottom.

Petrie just isn't working hard enough. Of course you won't be able to sign those marque FA, or retain your own players (i.e. Dalembert) if you don't work hard enough and aggressive enough to convince them. Our GM only knows how to inquire, probably make an offer, negotiate a little, and if the offer gets turned down, he quits convincing the player, and worst withdraws the offer even before the player signs with another team.

I see Petrie as an old burned-out GM. I think he already lost that burning desire to work harder and make this franchise work. He probably does not think hard enough too. This GM makes moves/trades just for the sake of moving/trading. Then he lets his rabid fans in this board second guess his intentions for making the move and/or make excuses for him when the move proves to be a major mistake. This has been the trend in this board. A lot of fans will blame the owners, the coach, or even put the blame on the players when it was Petrie the GM who allowed and pulled the trigger for such move.

I think it is about time the Maloofs change their GM. Their business is not going anywhere for several years now. It is time to make that big change at the top.

 

[Bricklayer]

After a long dry spell Petrie had done just about everything RIGHT for the first two years of the rebuild. I'm willing to stand by almost all of his moves from 09-11. But of course now he got the heat turned up on him by having a bad offseason at precisely the time we should have been set up for a good one.

Thing is that we were THIS close to having the opposite. It wouldn't have taken much of a tweak to fortunes. If you a) don't make the Salmons trade and kept Beno (in our control); b) we were in the running for Dalembert, if you get him; and c) we made an offer to Kirilenko, if he takes it...combined with the resinging of Thornton it would have been a perfect reasonable offseason. The one many of us were asking for. You coudl still have drafted Jimmer if you wanted. Or one of the other PGs or SFs. You cmight even still have gone out and used an MLE on Hayes maybe, although he would not be needed. But we were right in the running, had all the right names were attached to us in rumors. We just somehow did not get it done.

Not inventing names at all, not pie in the sky, but just stuff we were attached t and pursuing but failed to get we could easily have been this as a 14 man roster

Starters
C - 6'11" Dalembert
C/PF - 6'11" Cousins
SF - 6'11" Kirilenko
SG - 6'4" Thornton
PG/SG - 6'5" Evans
Bench
PF/C - 6'11" Thompson
PF - 6'9" Hickson
SF/PF - 6'11" Greene
SF/SG - 6'7" Garcia
SG/PG - 6'2" Fredette
PG/SG - 6'3" Udrih
PG - 5'9" Thomas
D-League
SF - 6'8" Honyecutt
C/PF - 7'0" Whiteside

And that's jsut so much stronger and better balanced than what we have. And it was right there. And Petrie apparently at least made some offers to Dalembert and Kirilenko...just all went wrong. the thing we don't know is if it went wrong because of us, because we wouldn't move the numbers large enough, or whether it wetn wrong because we're the Sacramento Kings, small market losing franchise with a moving van poised over our heads and maybe those guys just did not want to come. Of course obviously the Salmons mistake appears to duplicate Petrie's Nick Anderson error, seeing a guy for what he once was rather than he is now. And frankly liking him far too much for waht he once was anyway, since he was always going to be a questionable fit.

Of course maybe the biggest thing was just that Westphal had apparently lost the team before the season even started, or lost them by stupidly trying to institute a new systemless system right at the begining of the season. Its hard to assess that. We were playing better at the end of last year, having Westphal coach out the last year of his contract and get a full season to make Reke/Cousins/Thornton work did not seem completely unreasonable on its face. But it blew up so fast and so hard it makes you wonder if there weren't signs.

 

[Dime Dropper]

If he hasn't done major stupid moves, then we wouldn't be complaining in this board. It is exactly all those stupid trades/moves that he allowed over the past several years now that is the reason for making this thread.

Also, being not-so-aggressive as a GM is probably one of the worst traits of Petrie that makes this team dwell at the bottom.

Petrie just isn't working hard enough. Of course you won't be able to sign those marque FA, or retain your own players (i.e. Dalembert) if you don't work hard enough and aggressive enough to convince them. Our GM only knows how to inquire, probably make an offer, negotiate a little, and if the offer gets turned down, he quits convincing the player, and worst withdraws the offer even before the player signs with another team.

I see Petrie as an old burned-out GM. I think he already lost that burning desire to work harder and make this franchise work. He probably does not think hard enough too. This GM makes moves/trades just for the sake of moving/trading. Then he lets his rabid fans in this board second guess his intentions for making the move and/or make excuses for him when the move proves to be a major mistake. This has been the trend in this board. A lot of fans will blame the owners, the coach, or even put the blame on the players when it was Petrie the GM who allowed and pulled the trigger for such move.

I think it is about time the Maloofs change their GM. Their business is not going anywhere for several years now. It is time to make that big change at the top.

Major was obviously the key word. He made mistakes undoubtedly. But he's not going to mess up by trading Tyreke or Cousins, he's far too conservative in nature. Now that is a good thing when it comes to not doing anything majorly stupid with your best players, but it's also hurt him, as we've all seen, in some of his trades and FA signings. I'm not saying he's perfect, far from it, but the grass isn't always greener. I'm just as frustrated as others in his apparent lack of interest in Dalembert, who was a good fit, and the trade for Salmons. Both cases were failures but we don't know the full story, at least with regards to Dally. Similarly he's had some terrible moves in FA - Mikki Moore etc.. He also should have been much more aggressive in getting more picks during our rebuild, but there is some question marks about whether he was allowed to do so given the Maloofs financial woes.


People need to be wary of who is going to replacing him. It can get much worse, despite what some think.

 

[ParniValjak]

After a long dry spell Petrie had done just about everything RIGHT for the first two years of the rebuild. I'm willing to stand by almost all of his moves from 09-11. But of course now he got the heat turned up on him by having a bad offseason at precisely the time we should have been set up for a good one.

Thing is that we were THIS close to having the opposite. It wouldn't have taken much of a tweak to fortunes. If you a) don't make the Salmons trade and kept Beno (in our control); b) we were in the running for Dalembert, if you get him; and c) we made an offer to Kirilenko, if he takes it...combined with the resinging of Thornton it would have been a perfect reasonable offseason. The one many of us were asking for. You coudl still have drafted Jimmer if you wanted. Or one of the other PGs or SFs. You cmight even still have gone out and used an MLE on Hayes maybe, although he would not be needed. But we were right in the running, had all the right names were attached to us in rumors. We just somehow did not get it done.

Not inventing names at all, not pie in the sky, but just stuff we were attached t and pursuing but failed to get we could easily have been this as a 14 man roster

Starters
C - 6'11" Dalembert
C/PF - 6'11" Cousins
SF - 6'11" Kirilenko
SG - 6'4" Thornton
PG/SG - 6'5" Evans
Bench
PF/C - 6'11" Thompson
PF - 6'9" Hickson
SF/PF - 6'11" Greene
SF/SG - 6'7" Garcia
SG/PG - 6'2" Fredette
PG/SG - 6'3" Udrih
PG - 5'9" Thomas
D-League
SF - 6'8" Honyecutt
C/PF - 7'0" Whiteside

And that's jsut so much stronger and better balanced than what we have. And it was right there. And Petrie apparently at least made some offers to Dalembert and Kirilenko...just all went wrong. the thing we don't know is if it went wrong because of us, because we wouldn't move the numbers large enough, or whether it wetn wrong because we're the Sacramento Kings, small market losing franchise with a moving van poised over our heads and maybe those guys just did not want to come. Of course obviously the Salmons mistake appears to duplicate Petrie's Nick Anderson error, seeing a guy for what he once was rather than he is now. And frankly liking him far too much for waht he once was anyway, since he was always going to be a questionable fit.

Of course maybe the biggest thing was just that Westphal had apparently lost the team before the season even started, or lost them by stupidly trying to institute a new systemless system right at the begining of the season. Its hard to assess that. We were playing better at the end of last year, having Westphal coach out the last year of his contract and get a full season to make Reke/Cousins/Thornton work did not seem completely unreasonable on its face. But it blew up so fast and so hard it makes you wonder if there weren't signs.

I get depressed just thinking about what might have been. That is EXACTLY what I wanted us to do during the off-season and you know what, that team right there would have been one of the top 8 teams in the West this season. VERY strong 3 man rotations both in the big men department and in the backcourt. Some real depth and quality and LENGTH!

IMHO, Kirilenko was always a long shot to turn his back on CSKA this year BUT insert any half decent veteran SF instead of him (eg Prince) and we are STILL strong.

A couple of bad moves and we are struggling. The sad thing is, we would not have been too much different in terms of payroll either. Might have been some $4-5 million more than now but would have a MUCH MUCH better team.

At times like this, its really sucks to be a Kings fan. If we had rich owners, we could STILL turn this around but burning up some money BUT since we don't, I think it will be a longer than needed time before we recover form this off-season.