Perception is Reality: A Discussion on BMac and DWill

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
Let's talk about Ben McLemore some more. Some called him the best prospect in the draft. Most of the way through his rookie season, impatient Kings fans are already dangling the dreaded B word. Where did we go so wrong?

I'm not going to tell you where, but I think I might know when. December 7th, 2013 is the date we're looking for. Let's go back in time for a minute to that fateful day... <-- time travel ellipse

Totals for the first 18 games of the season:
181 points (10ppg)
59 rebounds (3.3rpg)
18 assists (1apg)
18 TO (1topg)
16 steals (0.9spg)
4 blocks (0.2bpg)

170 shots taken and 64 shots made (38% fg)
81 3s taken and 28 3s made (35% 3pt)
30 FTs taken and 25 FTs made (83% ft)

18 games, 436 mins (24mpg)

Nothing here looks particularly bad, especially for a rookie playing his first month of NBA ball. You'd like to see those percentages come up, but 18 games is a pretty small sample size in any circumstances and even more so for a player who took 48% of his shots from behind the three point line. At this point in the season I don't think there was anything to be alarmed about. If anything, the signs were looking good. Since Williams joined the team he and Ben had sparked some instant chemistry (an understanding shared perhaps only by players who live above the rim) and Ben's averages were up for that 5 game span: 13.4pts 4.4reb 1.6ast 1.8stl. This includes consecutive performances of 20pts 6rebs and 15pts 9rebs on the Dec 6th to 7th home/away back-to-back against the Lakers and Jazz.

So what happened? Ben's minutes didn't get cut, at least not until January when such a move was entirely justified. Okay, why pretend. We all know what happened. The Rudy Gay trade happened and Isaiah Thomas moved into the starting lineup to replace the departed Greivis Vasquez. This gives me an opportunity to test out a little pet theory I've been developing regarding McLemore and Williams' lack of production this season. I'll call it the...

10 shot standard.

Before the Rudy Gay trade, Ben McLemore played in 18 games and he took at least 10 shots in 10 of those games. (55%). Why am I using 10 as the standard? It's a nice big round number and easy to identify on game logs. Since the Rudy Gay trade, Ben McLemore has played in 49 games and has taken at least 10 shots only 12 times (24%). Sidenote here -- only JT, IT, and Ben have played in all 67 games for us this season. That's a pretty dramatic change. Let's look at what happened in those games:

12/17...@CHA 2-10......7 pt 3rebs 3asts
12/20...@MIA 8-13....20pt 4rebs 1ast
12/31...@HOU 5-12....13pt 4rebs 3ast
1/22.....@HOU 3-10....11pt 1reb
1/26.........DEN 6-12......18pt 3rebs 3ast
1/27......@UTH 6-12....14pt 9rebs 2ast
2/7........@BOS 3-11.......8 pt 4rebs 2ast
2/9........@WSH 5-12....11pt 6rebs 1ast
2/23......@DEN 2-10.....6pts 4rebs 1ast
2/25..........HOU 4-16....15pt 1reb
3/7........@TOR 4-11....14pt 2rebs 1ast
3/15.......@Chi 3-12........6pts 6rebs 1ast

His averages on these 12 games are 11.9pts 3.9rebs 1.5asts 1.2stls 1.5to in 30mpg
He made 51 out of 141 fgs (36%) 18 out of 64 3s (28%) and 23 out of 26 fts (88%).

Aside from the big drop in 3pt% (and Ben's big fat 0 for 7 against Chicago this weekend didn't help matters there), there's not much in those numbers that's off from his averages before the trade. His minutes went up slightly and so did his averages in every category. I went back and added in steals and turnovers and those match up with the slight increase in minutes as well. Just for the hell of it, he also had 3 blocks in those 12 games compared to 4 in the first 18 (small sample size alert!). It's not forward progress, but it's not a disaster either.

Ah, but 12 games out of 49 does not a successful season make. The point I'm trying to make here though, is that Ben's apparent lack of consistency is more a factor of the circumstance he now finds himself in than a complete failure on his part to develop his talent. While MCW and Oladipo have been given free reign to fire away on their mediocre teams to the tune of 15 and 12 shots per game, respectively, our own Ben McLemore is afforded that same privilege in only 1 out of every 4 games.

Which is not to say that MCW's performance wouldn't be impressive under any circumstances (it is) and Oladipo's all-around game is developing nicely as well, but more to the point -- McLemore has been asked to play off the ball on a team with three players each averaging 20+ points per game (and a combined 48 shots between them). If you sort out all the times when he's in the game but may as well not be for all the attention his teammates pay him, he's actually meeting expectations for the most part or at least close to it. And when you're talking about a first year player, everything is about projection.

One last note here, because it's so blatant I can't not mention it, is the puzzling disparity between home and away games which meet the 10 shot standard. 10 of the 12 games that met the standard were on the road. I have my own tentative theory for why this might be the case, but think about it for a minute while I move on to DWill and we'll come back to this at the end.

Derrick Williams and the 10 shot standard:

I'm not going to go into as much detail with Derrick Williams, basically just focusing on points and rebounds here. In reverse order, this is every game in which Derrick Williams has taken at least 10 shots since being traded from Minnesota (starting with the most recent game on Sunday):

3/16..@MIN ....26 and 11
2/28..@LAL ......26 and 12
2/11..@CLE ......10 and 3
2/7....@BOS ......11 and 12
1/27...@UTH ....17 and 15
1/22...@HOU ....22 and 11
1/15...@MIN ......16 and 5
1/14...@ORL .......9 and 6
1/10.......ORL ......14 and 6
12/15.....HOU ....11 and 6 [Rudy Gay's first game]
12/13..@PHX .....14 and 4
12/11......UTH ......13 and 7
12/9.........DAL .......31 and 5 [Isaiah Thomas' first game as the starter]
12/3.........OKC .......13 and 0
11/29.......LAC ......12 and 6

That comes out to averages of 16.3pts and 7.6rebs over those 15 games. Not bad. In fact, if these were his averages for the season we would all be lauging at Minnesota's blunder and how lucky we were to score our new SF for nothing. In these 15 games Williams took 187 shots and made 90 (48%). Unlike Ben, Williams actually thrived initially after the Rudy Gay trade -- mostly because Rudy Gay was sitting on the bench and we'd traded every other legitimate SF on the roster (actually, scratch that we had none to begin with). Williams took at least 10 shots in 4 straight games right up until Rudy Gay suited up, at which point he promptly disappeared for almost a month. He resurfaced again in mid-January as Malone's go-to sixth man and then as emergency injury relief when we lost both Rudy and DMC in Houston (this must have felt like last season all over again for him). The sightings since have been few and far between.

So what to make of all this?

Let me explain my theory and the reason for the 10 shot standard. Everyone is probably familiar with the "good numbers on a bad team" phenomenon. We've seen a lot of it over the years here in Sacramento. There's a corollary to this phenomenon though which is less often discussed -- and it has to do with opportunity. Every game has a limited number of possessions. You can get yourself more by gaming the shot clock ala Mike D'Antoni or by forcing a lot of turnovers, but essentially every team has a fixed number of possessions in which they control the ball. What you choose to do with those possessions constitutes your offense. That means a team in last place has just as many possessions to use (more or less) as a team in first place. And that means there's sometimes (not all the time) an opportunity for a mediocre player to stand out statistically amid a weaker pool of available talent.

A casual basketball fan (often a fan of another team) will glance at a boxscore and take note of who's scoring the ball, who's working the boards, who's setting up their teammates and so on. Us hardcore fans watch the games and see where the performance aligns with the stats and where it doesn't. But I'm here to tell you that you've all been tricked!

Both groups of fans are wrong.


The casual fan is wrong because they aren't familiar with the personnel on the team and how they interact and they aren't seeing the plays which don't add up statistically. The numbers don't tell the whole story. The hardcore fan is wrong because they're living within a relative standard where players are comparable only to other players in the same system. Statistics are supposed to allow you to compare players from one team to players from another but they don't work that way because not every player has an equivalent level of opportunity. You're probably not watching more than one team's games on a regular basis unless you're employed by an NBA team or a complete junky (which, admittedly, there are a few). And without intimate knowledge of every team's system and players to compare them to, your intimate knowledge of your own has only the illusion of credibility.

Not even the best scout has time to watch every single player in every single game.

There has to be an easier way. Let's build backwards. What happens when you take a prototypical "good numbers on a bad team" player and remove him from the equation? You open up an opportunity for someone else to fill that void. Given the same number of opportunities, will they perform better or worse than whomever they've replaced? There's no way to know until you actually try it out. Hypothesis --> Experiment --> Analyze Data. We need some kind of theory though or we're just shooting in the dark. Which brings me back around to the 10 shot standard. What you thought I forgot? Here's the theory in a nutshell:

Minutes played is a poor indicator of individual opportunity. We've all seen first-hand that offensive possessions are seldom distributed on an even playing field. To better level the field, I suggest that there should be some standard applied which takes individual opportunity within the offense into account.

[Note: As I mentioned before, I chose 10 shots for arbitrary reasons,
a better average could probably be measured and agreed upon]


Let's apply it to a comparison of Derrick Williams and Rudy Gay.

Gay has played 43 games as a Sacramento King and taken 10 or more shots in 40 of those games. That 43 number includes the Houston game where he played only 6 minutes because of injury but somehow managed to put up 5 shots anyway in that time. I'm not going to go through all 40 games and add up the numbers this time, let's just cheat and use his totals for the 43: 20.4pts 5.6rebs 3.2ast with 645 shots taken (Rudy really likes to shoot) and 318 made (49%). Not bad. Those are All-Star numbers right? Compare that to William's averages with the 10 shot standard applied: 16.3pts and 7.6rebs on 48% shooting. What do these numbers mean? Well, I'm suggesting that this is a way to approximate what we might see if Rudy Gay left the team and Derrick Williams took his place. That level of production would actually be pretty good if he could keep it up. And presumably, with Gay departed his relative level of opportunity would allow for him to keep it up.

It's not a 1-to-1 swap, but considering Gay makes $19 million a year and is probably looking at a new contract in the $12-15 million per year range while Williams is only 22 and is almost certainly going to cost less than $10 million a year with his best years still ahead of him, it's a much closer call than it would appear to be on the surface isn't it?

One last thing...

Did you notice that home/away pattern again with Williams' games? He had 13 games since December 7th in which he took 10 or more shots and of those 13, 9 were played on the road and 4 were played at home. It gets even worse -- 2 of those home games were before Rudy Gay joined the team. Both BMac and DWill consistently fail to meet the 10 shot standard in home games. How consistently? It's happened 3 times in 2014. That's combined, between the two of them. I told you I had a tentative theory here. And I'll share it with you, but maybe someone else would like to take a crack at solving that mystery first?
 
At this point of the season I think the solution is pretty obvious. Start Mccallum and bring IT off the bench as the sixth man. It allows more touches for the starters, it puts IT back into his most effective role and it upgrades the starting units defense. DO IT.
 
Let's talk about Ben McLemore some more. Some called him the best prospect in the draft. Most of the way through his rookie season, impatient Kings fans are already dangling the dreaded B word. Where did we go so wrong?

I'm not going to tell you where, but I think I might know when. December 7th, 2013 is the date we're looking for. Let's go back in time for a minute to that fateful day... <-- time travel ellipse

Totals for the first 18 games of the season:
181 points (10ppg)
59 rebounds (3.3rpg)
18 assists (1apg)
18 TO (1topg)
16 steals (0.9spg)
4 blocks (0.2bpg)

170 shots taken and 64 shots made (38% fg)
81 3s taken and 28 3s made (35% 3pt)
30 FTs taken and 25 FTs made (83% ft)

18 games, 436 mins (24mpg)

Nothing here looks particularly bad, especially for a rookie playing his first month of NBA ball. You'd like to see those percentages come up, but 18 games is a pretty small sample size in any circumstances and even more so for a player who took 48% of his shots from behind the three point line. At this point in the season I don't think there was anything to be alarmed about. If anything, the signs were looking good. Since Williams joined the team he and Ben had sparked some instant chemistry (an understanding shared perhaps only by players who live above the rim) and Ben's averages were up for that 5 game span: 13.4pts 4.4reb 1.6ast 1.8stl. This includes consecutive performances of 20pts 6rebs and 15pts 9rebs on the Dec 6th to 7th home/away back-to-back against the Lakers and Jazz.

So what happened? Ben's minutes didn't get cut, at least not until January when such a move was entirely justified. Okay, why pretend. We all know what happened. The Rudy Gay trade happened and Isaiah Thomas moved into the starting lineup to replace the departed Greivis Vasquez. This gives me an opportunity to test out a little pet theory I've been developing regarding McLemore and Williams' lack of production this season. I'll call it the...

10 shot standard.

Before the Rudy Gay trade, Ben McLemore played in 18 games and he took at least 10 shots in 10 of those games. (55%). Why am I using 10 as the standard? It's a nice big round number and easy to identify on game logs. Since the Rudy Gay trade, Ben McLemore has played in 49 games and has taken at least 10 shots only 12 times (24%). Sidenote here -- only JT, IT, and Ben have played in all 67 games for us this season. That's a pretty dramatic change. Let's look at what happened in those games:

12/17...@CHA 2-10......7 pt 3rebs 3asts
12/20...@MIA 8-13....20pt 4rebs 1ast
12/31...@HOU 5-12....13pt 4rebs 3ast
1/22.....@HOU 3-10....11pt 1reb
1/26.........DEN 6-12......18pt 3rebs 3ast
1/27......@UTH 6-12....14pt 9rebs 2ast
2/7........@BOS 3-11.......8 pt 4rebs 2ast
2/9........@WSH 5-12....11pt 6rebs 1ast
2/23......@DEN 2-10.....6pts 4rebs 1ast
2/25..........HOU 4-16....15pt 1reb
3/7........@TOR 4-11....14pt 2rebs 1ast
3/15.......@Chi 3-12........6pts 6rebs 1ast

His averages on these 12 games are 11.9pts 3.9rebs 1.5asts 1.2stls 1.5to in 30mpg
He made 51 out of 141 fgs (36%) 18 out of 64 3s (28%) and 23 out of 26 fts (88%).

Aside from the big drop in 3pt% (and Ben's big fat 0 for 7 against Chicago this weekend didn't help matters there), there's not much in those numbers that's off from his averages before the trade. His minutes went up slightly and so did his averages in every category. I went back and added in steals and turnovers and those match up with the slight increase in minutes as well. Just for the hell of it, he also had 3 blocks in those 12 games compared to 4 in the first 18 (small sample size alert!). It's not forward progress, but it's not a disaster either.

Ah, but 12 games out of 49 does not a successful season make. The point I'm trying to make here though, is that Ben's apparent lack of consistency is more a factor of the circumstance he now finds himself in than a complete failure on his part to develop his talent. While MCW and Oladipo have been given free reign to fire away on their mediocre teams to the tune of 15 and 12 shots per game, respectively, our own Ben McLemore is afforded that same privilege in only 1 out of every 4 games.

Which is not to say that MCW's performance wouldn't be impressive under any circumstances (it is) and Oladipo's all-around game is developing nicely as well, but more to the point -- McLemore has been asked to play off the ball on a team with three players each averaging 20+ points per game (and a combined 48 shots between them). If you sort out all the times when he's in the game but may as well not be for all the attention his teammates pay him, he's actually meeting expectations for the most part or at least close to it. And when you're talking about a first year player, everything is about projection.

One last note here, because it's so blatant I can't not mention it, is the puzzling disparity between home and away games which meet the 10 shot standard. 10 of the 12 games that met the standard were on the road. I have my own tentative theory for why this might be the case, but think about it for a minute while I move on to DWill and we'll come back to this at the end.

Derrick Williams and the 10 shot standard:

I'm not going to go into as much detail with Derrick Williams, basically just focusing on points and rebounds here. In reverse order, this is every game in which Derrick Williams has taken at least 10 shots since being traded from Minnesota (starting with the most recent game on Sunday):

3/16..@MIN ....26 and 11
2/28..@LAL ......26 and 12
2/11..@CLE ......10 and 3
2/7....@BOS ......11 and 12
1/27...@UTH ....17 and 15
1/22...@HOU ....22 and 11
1/15...@MIN ......16 and 5
1/14...@ORL .......9 and 6
1/10.......ORL ......14 and 6
12/15.....HOU ....11 and 6 [Rudy Gay's first game]
12/13..@PHX .....14 and 4
12/11......UTH ......13 and 7
12/9.........DAL .......31 and 5 [Isaiah Thomas' first game as the starter]
12/3.........OKC .......13 and 0
11/29.......LAC ......12 and 6

That comes out to averages of 16.3pts and 7.6rebs over those 15 games. Not bad. In fact, if these were his averages for the season we would all be lauging at Minnesota's blunder and how lucky we were to score our new SF for nothing. In these 15 games Williams took 187 shots and made 90 (48%). Unlike Ben, Williams actually thrived initially after the Rudy Gay trade -- mostly because Rudy Gay was sitting on the bench and we'd traded every other legitimate SF on the roster (actually, scratch that we had none to begin with). Williams took at least 10 shots in 4 straight games right up until Rudy Gay suited up, at which point he promptly disappeared for almost a month. He resurfaced again in mid-January as Malone's go-to sixth man and then as emergency injury relief when we lost both Rudy and DMC in Houston (this must have felt like last season all over again for him). The sightings since have been few and far between.

So what to make of all this?

Let me explain my theory and the reason for the 10 shot standard. Everyone is probably familiar with the "good numbers on a bad team" phenomenon. We've seen a lot of it over the years here in Sacramento. There's a corollary to this phenomenon though which is less often discussed -- and it has to do with opportunity. Every game has a limited number of possessions. You can get yourself more by gaming the shot clock ala Mike D'Antoni or by forcing a lot of turnovers, but essentially every team has a fixed number of possessions in which they control the ball. What you choose to do with those possessions constitutes your offense. That means a team in last place has just as many possessions to use (more or less) as a team in first place. And that means there's sometimes (not all the time) an opportunity for a mediocre player to stand out statistically amid a weaker pool of available talent.

A casual basketball fan (often a fan of another team) will glance at a boxscore and take note of who's scoring the ball, who's working the boards, who's setting up their teammates and so on. Us hardcore fans watch the games and see where the performance aligns with the stats and where it doesn't. But I'm here to tell you that you've all been tricked!
Both groups of fans are wrong.

The casual fan is wrong because they aren't familiar with the personnel on the team and how they interact and they aren't seeing the plays which don't add up statistically. The numbers don't tell the whole story. The hardcore fan is wrong because they're living within a relative standard where players are comparable only to other players in the same system. Statistics are supposed to allow you to compare players from one team to players from another but they don't work that way because not every player has an equivalent level of opportunity. You're probably not watching more than one team's games on a regular basis unless you're employed by an NBA team or a complete junky (which, admittedly, there are a few). And without intimate knowledge of every team's system and players to compare them to, your intimate knowledge of your own has only the illusion of credibility.

Not even the best scout has time to watch every single player in every single game.

There has to be an easier way. Let's build backwards. What happens when you take a prototypical "good numbers on a bad team" player and remove him from the equation? You open up an opportunity for someone else to fill that void. Given the same number of opportunities, will they perform better or worse than whomever they've replaced? There's no way to know until you actually try it out. Hypothesis --> Experiment --> Analyze Data. We need some kind of theory though or we're just shooting in the dark. Which brings me back around to the 10 shot standard. What you thought I forgot? Here's the theory in a nutshell:

Minutes played is a poor indicator of individual opportunity. We've all seen first-hand that offensive possessions are seldom distributed on an even playing field. To better level the field, I suggest that there should be some standard applied which takes individual opportunity within the offense into account.

[Note: As I mentioned before, I chose 10 shots for arbitrary reasons,
a better average could probably be measured and agreed upon]


Let's apply it to a comparison of Derrick Williams and Rudy Gay.

Gay has played 43 games as a Sacramento King and taken 10 or more shots in 40 of those games. That 43 number includes the Houston game where he played only 6 minutes because of injury but somehow managed to put up 5 shots anyway in that time. I'm not going to go through all 40 games and add up the numbers this time, let's just cheat and use his totals for the 43: 20.4pts 5.6rebs 3.2ast with 645 shots taken (Rudy really likes to shoot) and 318 made (49%). Not bad. Those are All-Star numbers right? Compare that to William's averages with the 10 shot standard applied: 16.3pts and 7.6rebs on 48% shooting. What do these numbers mean? Well, I'm suggesting that this is a way to approximate what we might see if Rudy Gay left the team and Derrick Williams took his place. That level of production would actually be pretty good if he could keep it up. And presumably, with Gay departed his relative level of opportunity would allow for him to keep it u

It's not a 1-to-1 swap, but considering Gay makes $19 million a year and is probably looking at a new contract in the $12-15 million per year range while Williams is only 22 and is almost certainly going to cost less than $10 million a year with his best years still ahead of him, it's a much closer call than it would appear to be on the surface isn't it?

One last thing...

Did you notice that home/away pattern again with Williams' games? He had 13 games since December 7th in which he took 10 or more shots and of those 13, 9 were played on the road and 4 were played at home. It gets even worse -- 2 of those home games were before Rudy Gay joined the team. Both BMac and DWill consistently fail to meet the 10 shot standard in home games. How consistently? It's happened 3 times in 2014. That's combined, between the two of them. I told you I had a tentative theory here. And I'll share it with you, but maybe someone else would like to take a crack at solving that mystery first?

Sorry I don't have time to read all of this. But I think you are over analyzing this. The team is in flux this year. Players where starting partly because they where on the trade block. Players where traded etc. I have criticized B Mac myself. But I have to remember he was a freshman before he was drafted. He will need more time to develop.
 
Sorry I don't have time to read all of this. But I think you are over analyzing this. The team is in flux this year. Players where starting partly because they where on the trade block. Players where traded etc. I have criticized B Mac myself. But I have to remember he was a freshman before he was drafted. He will need more time to develop.

And Two years ago BMac was in High School! Yep our own BMac thrust into the NBA where the talent leap is the greatest of all Sports.

BMac is still a work in progress, so is DWill.
 
Malone and I just want to know: Why is D. Williams is so inconsistent? And knowing the reason(s), we want to know how he can become consistent. Play against Minni every time? If his consistency is just a function of playing time, then why was he so inconsistent before Gay arrived?

Also, this analysis poses the cause and effect problem: Is D. Will shooting a good percentage because he's taking 10 shots or more, or is D. Will taking 10 shots or more because he is shooting a good percentage?

I'll tell you that the stat that I'd be interested in taking a look at: rebounds per minute played for all of his games. Then take a look at the standard deviation of that stat to see his consistency or lack thereof. Compare his standard deviation to that of Williams and Acy. If rebounding is effort, that gives you an idea of how consistent D. Will's effort has been.

As far as "good numbers on a bad team", I attribute that phenomena to blowouts, when the opposing team inserts subs and the "bad team" is throwing up shots to narrow the margin of the loss. However, the Kings have been blown out very few times this year. Ergo, I don't think the Kings' numbers this year have much to do with "good numbers on a bad team".
 
I believe in your theory for the most part. When raw talented players are trying to develop, improve skills, gain understanding (IQ), and increase confidence,....they need a "long rope". They have to be able to play for extended periods of time and have the chance to play right through their mistakes. If that means going to the D-League, then that's what it should be.

D-Will is the perfect example of this. He has a good shooting stroke, he can shoot well from beyond the arc,..but you can't pull him after a couple misses and lead him to believe that he shouldn't continue to shoot and be aggressive.

It would have been very interesting to see where he could have develop his game to, if he had the chance to continue to start. He had a lot of confidence and momentum going in those first few games, through his career high 31 in that Dallas home game.

I don't believe his game will ever peak to it's fullest, if he has to play "behind" anyone. He needs to be the lead player at his position on a team, which IMO is the (3) position. His best advantages are at the 3.

Really an odd situation how those first two trades worked out
 
I think it is WAY too soon to hang the "B" word on Ben. He has played all season on a team in flux. He has had inconsistent play from whomever is playing the PG position. No time to develop a rapport with a back court player, and no consistent play from the PG with regard to scoring opportunities for Ben. IT is a shoot first, shoot second, pass third PG. I don't think Greivis Vasquez is as consistent as his stats from last season may indicate. I think with a better PG, Ben's numbers will only improve. With consistent time with the same PG, and a rigorous off season program where he works on his ball handling and shooting, I think that Ben will be just fine.

Defensively he needs playing time to develop a consistency on that side of the floor. Athletically he has the potential to become a very good defender. He is young, and he has time to grow as a player. Athletic is not something you can learn, it is something you either have or don't. You can become more athletic, but that doesn't always equate to PLAYING more athletically. If we are having this same discussion at the all star break next season, then we will know what the verdict is. The jury is still out at this point.

As for Derrick Williams, he is more of a mystery. His inconsistency from game to game is astonishing. It seems not to be effected by any measurable changes in situation. He is just inconsistent. At times he appears to lack motivation. His effort level just seems to not be as high as it needs to be. But when his effort level is there, he plays well. Something needs to be done to keep his effort level consistent from game to game (even quarter to quarter). He is another player who is athletic and needs to work on his shot consistency. If he can improve his shot consistency, he has an opportunity to become a very solid NBA player. Defensively he needs time to develop. He needs playing time to improve defensively. Jury is still out on DWill as well.

But if you look at the moves made by the FO, the Kings are in much better shape than when the season started. The players that have left were overpaid underachievers with little to no upside. The players they have now at least have some upside. When you are bad, change is inevitable. Not necessarily change just for the sake of change, but meaningful change with an eye on improving athletic ability and consistency on both sides of the floor.
 
Nice thread! I've actually been working on something similar with regards to Ben, D-Will and Rudy.

Essentially, your theory is what is called "Usage %" in the advanced stats world. If I'm reading you correctly, you want to know the individual opportunity players have when they're on the floor? USG does a pretty good job at it . Basically, it's how many FGA, FT's, turnovers, and minutes a player has divided by team FGA, FT's, turnovers and minutes. Right now, D-Will's is incredibly low at 16.9%. That's roughly where the Thabo, Kendrick Perkins, Nick Collison type players are at.

Anyway, sort of my thoughts with Rudy is that if we sign him long-term, we are extremely limited to what we can do over the next 3 years with regards to building a winner around Cousins. I simply don't see Rudy getting less than $13 mil from somebody. So if we do end up signing Rudy long-term, we're tied into him and Cuz for between $26-$30mil/year over the course of their extensions.

Now, I have no problem with this if we had guys around them for us to take a shot with. Unfortunately, we don't. IT, our 3rd biggest asset, has some questions to his fit with those 2 and very well might be gone next season if we don't match a contract. JT, as we saw from the trade deadline, likely doesn't have much value. Neither does Landry. That leaves us with roughly $42 mil tied up into just Cuz, JT, Landry, and Gay until the end of the 2017/2018 season. Add in our rook, Ray McCallum and it's now hovering around $46 mil in cap. I don't know about you, but only have $12 mil to fix ALL those holes that core leaves is an incredibly daunting task. And that's if we let our 3rd best asset walk for nothing.

So that leaves us with Ben and D-Will as the two guys on the team with the best chance of breaking out. Your numbers coincide with my original thoughts that they played extremely well together those first few games before Rudy joined the team. They were always flying in transition and making awesome plays. Some were incredibly stupid, but at least it sparked energy.

I'm starting to lean towards hoping Rudy opts out, try and resign IT to a reasonable $6mil/year type deal and we go all-in with development next season with Ben, D-Will, our new rook, IT, and Cuz as the main core. I just don't think we're in a position as a team to commit to Rudy-Cuz as a duo moving forward. We simply do not have the flexibility money wise or the assets on the roster to make it work.
 
In my opinion, McLemore is more of the mystery than Derrick Williams and his inconsistency. Derrick has had more time in the NBA. In my opinion he is a solid player, but inconsistent. And to me it's not much of a mystery. It seems to me that he doesn't have a very big repertoire of post moves. Because of this he often settles for odd mid-range fade away jumpers. His dribbling is marginal. It's fairly common for him to get the ball slapped away while driving to the hoop, especially is there is more than one defender (maybe that part is obvious). Also Derrick's basketball IQ leaves some to be desired. Overall a solid player, I hope we hang on to him, but clearly there are reasons why he isn't dominating game in and game out.
 
It's not a 1-to-1 swap, but considering Gay makes $19 million a year and is probably looking at a new contract in the $12-15 million per year range while Williams is only 22 and is almost certainly going to cost less than $10 million a year with his best years still ahead of him, it's a much closer call than it would appear to be on the surface isn't it?

I agree. At this point, I'd rather have enough space to sign an additional solid player, say a proven (2) guard, as opposed to having to pay one player in Gay, that huge chunk. 19 million next year is just absurd. He's a quality player, but he's not worth that much of your teams cap. 19 mil + 15 mil over the next two seasons would really hand cuff us.

Theoretical question: would you rather have enough room to sign Williams and a solid guard, for a example a Wes Matthews type,...or pay Gay that much?
 
A difficulty always with a threshold beyond which you count stats, is why that threshold was exceeded. Especially amongst lesser/roleplayers, and young inconsistent ones at that. There's some chicken and egg to it: Player A plays better given 10 shots or more. But Player A was only given 10 shots or more because he was playing well. In the games he came out sluggish he only got 19 minutes and 5 shots.

Difficulty 2 is whether better numbers for those guys means better results for the team. In the case of Ben and DWill, we have been at our best since they have been neutered. basically a .500 team with the Cousins/Gay/IT trio. So yeah, maybe we could cater to those players more...but to what end. Theirs?

Difficulty 3 as regards DWill is this -- same pattern as in Minny, and I think you are right. He needs to be a featured player in order to be effective. But that's a problem. That's good numbers on bad team stuff. Sure, he can be featured and be a "6" on a 10 scale, or whatever. But if in order to do that you have to remove an "8" in Rudy, then you aren't better. And if he's not featured, all of a sudden he sinks down to become a "4". If he could play like a 6 off the bench, hey, groovy. But in essence you need to start and feature him, and you could do better starting and featuring others. Only works if you are able to convert one of the IT/Gay duo into a "7" or "8" elsewhere in the lineup.

Ben's problems of course are myiad. Merely focusing on his inability to shoot is just the tip of the iceberg. Inability to dribble, defend, or compete are just as large and not shot dependent. As I've said several times, his utter failure to step forward here in the back half of the season could really deal a blow to his career, or to our prospects. His career in that any rational non-invested GM would feel compelled to go out and sign or acquire a solid vet to put in front of him next season, because the current gaping hole has shaved numerous wins off our total this year. How much? Kings PER/Opp PER per position this year:

C: 20.4 / 17.9 +2.5
PF: 13.0 / 18.1 -5.1
SF: 14.0 / 14.1 -0.1
SG: 9.2 / 15.3 -6.1
PG: 20.0 / 17.1 +2.9

You can't do that again. You'd have no chance to win. So you have to replace him, unless you are irrationally invested. Or you don't replace him, and literally risk the season on something he hasn't shown. You can't run and off and create a roster catering to a 36% shooting 31% form 3pt land shooting non-defending bust of a SG. And say oh oh, look, we could help him. I'm sure we could. It would be impossible not to. But that's a ridiculous thing to even be bothering with. Ben is going to have to find his own way now as just another bench scrub looking for daylight. Maybe he'll find his way. But there is no way we can be making roster moves with him in mind as anything except a wildcard.
 
Sorry I don't have time to read all of this. But I think you are over analyzing this. The team is in flux this year. Players where starting partly because they where on the trade block. Players where traded etc. I have criticized B Mac myself. But I have to remember he was a freshman before he was drafted. He will need more time to develop.

If you don't have time to read it, then you really shouldn't be critiquing it. I may not necessarily agree with everything hrdboild has presented in that post, but I have read it and I applaud the effort and detail he has put into it.
 
It's interesting to me that the Kings have decided they will stick with Ray and Ben and give them plenty of time no matter what but have not given the same kind of promise to Derrick for the last 15-20 games. The thing about D-Will is when he's playing hard he's a very good fit next to Cousins imo cause of his cutting ability/finishing, he's kind of like Thornton in a way but and that's if you don't give him the odd touch to get his confidence up he will pretty much quit on you. His offence pretty much impacts his whole game which is a shame. Still kind of head scratching why we don't play more Williams/Rudy as SG/SF when Ben is being himself.
 
I'm starting to lean towards hoping Rudy opts out, try and resign IT to a reasonable $6mil/year type deal and we go all-in with development next season with Ben, D-Will, our new rook, IT, and Cuz as the main core. I just don't think we're in a position as a team to commit to Rudy-Cuz as a duo moving forward. We simply do not have the flexibility money wise or the assets on the roster to make it work.

I second this although I'd rather us go after Eric Bledsoe and let IT walk. Bledsoe/McCallum would be great defensively and Bledsoe showed he
is the real deal.
 
I second this although I'd rather us go after Eric Bledsoe and let IT walk. Bledsoe/McCallum would be great defensively and Bledsoe showed he
is the real deal.

I'm a huge Bledsoe (and Dragic fan), but I just don't see is as plausible. They view him as their franchise player moving forward. Even with the injury, I don't think there's a deal they don't match. If Rudy opts in, there's just no money. We're at $66mil without offering IT a contract. If Rudy opts out, I believe we're around $47 mil. Add the 2 rooks in and you'd be looking at roughly $8mil. Just not going to get it done for Bledsoe.
 
While rolling with D-Will makes sense economically, I am hesitant to go that route.

We don't know how he'll respond when teams have to game plan for him. Will he shut down? Rudy Gay is a known entity. He's a legitimate Robin to our Batman in Cousins. He's shined in crunch time.

Despite defenses planning for him, he can get to the rack effectively. Unfortunately, you do have to pay for a player like that. He's a complementary piece at what I feel is the perfect position.

I guess the offseason will tell us a lot. Does he opt out and sign with us for a long term deal? I think this impacts how we move forward with DWill. I don't see DWill's game as complementary. He needs to be set up a lot more. It isn't a bad thing, just not what I would like in a slugfest.
 
While rolling with D-Will makes sense economically, I am hesitant to go that route.

We don't know how he'll respond when teams have to game plan for him. Will he shut down? Rudy Gay is a known entity. He's a legitimate Robin to our Batman in Cousins. He's shined in crunch time.

Despite defenses planning for him, he can get to the rack effectively. Unfortunately, you do have to pay for a player like that. He's a complementary piece at what I feel is the perfect position.

I guess the offseason will tell us a lot. Does he opt out and sign with us for a long term deal? I think this impacts how we move forward with DWill. I don't see DWill's game as complementary. He needs to be set up a lot more. It isn't a bad thing, just not what I would like in a slugfest.

DWill is a guy, like McLemore, who is built as more of a blown up roleplayer than star goto guy type. Its highly unlikely DWill will ever be able to do what Gay did last night, you lose that in any swap. Cousins has to be the guy all the time then. But on the other hand, athletic roleplayers like DWill and Ben would thrive as complimentary players next to Cousins given a pass oriented PG. Assuming something we very much can not know -- that their shooting would improve with reps and focus on them, you could entirely restructure the team with the idea that they are there just to provide space/work off of Cuz, not to be able to take a game over themselves. Try to build Hakeem's old Rockets, or Ewing's old Knicks.

But thing is: we kinda had that. And we sucked. Over the summer we let a very talented wingman type guy go in Tyreke. We barely recovered that same sort of talent level by picking up Gay, and with him and Cuz and IT we've been near .500. But in between it was Cuz, IT, and then roleplayers and whatnot, and we couldn't win. Not enough talent. Not enough guys who could help Cuz. He was swarmed. Now Ben and DWill are obviously very young and could be more ready next year. With the acquisition of some steadier shooters to put around Cuz, maybe we could keep him from being engulfed inside. But to go into a second summer and once again dump your second best player so you can try to restructure yourself into a 1-stud surrounded by roleplayers offense is just highly dubious. So easy for dumping talent not to work out for you, and then where are you? Another losing season while the clock ticks on Cousins' patience and the enthusiasm from saving the team wear's off? You can't just keep on coming up with Tyreke/Gay level talents if you are a little NBA outpost like Sacto.

The difficulty here is that history suggests there is cap on how far a 3- 20pt scorer type team can go. Maybe about 45 wins or so. The Warriors had that structure for 1 year (the wild Nellie/Baron Davis and friends group). In the late 80s the Sonics had it for 1 year. Both teams made the playoffs as a #7/#8 type seed. Both teams went nowhere and had to tear it down to restructure. But that tearing down step is a doozy for a team already 8 years from its last playoff appearance. We simply MUST demonstrate to Cousins that this franchise can put a winner on the floor. We have to. He can be loyal as a dog, but he's got a power agent and people all over the league who will be whispering to him. He missed out on being an All Star largely because we sucked. I'm crossing my finger he at least gets some All NBA recognition to soothe the sting a bit, but his reputation, not to mention his competitiveness, cannot stand continued incompetence as a team. We're well past the age of adventures now as a franchise. Whatever they do next year just has to work or the whispers are going to grow frighteningly loud.
 
Assuming Rudy Gay opts out and we don't land one of the SF's in the draft I would love if we could offer the same money we were going to give to Iggy to Gordan Hayward that way we can see out of Derrick/Mclemore who is better and which one to keep (or maybe keep both and see who's better as a starter) since Hayward can play both positions equally well and brings us a point forward/guard who could work well with Isaiah (or anothe scoring PG/6th man type) and Cousins.

If we could replace Gay with Hayward I would be all for that since Hayward is like the ultimate glue guy and has enough star quality to really help you win when he's got other players around him like Cousins to take off the pressure. To me if Rudy stays and signs a longer term deal than you have to look at packaging either Williams or Mclemore for other needs the team is going to have depending on free agency and drafts.

I like both players I think Derrick right now is better but my biggest issue with the team is we have a bunch of guy's who sadly don't bring it effort wise night in night out and Derrick is the biggest one out of all of them while Ben has at times just been AWFUL he does bring effort and is a guy with a endless motor which once /if he get's himself mentally stable should make him a guy you want on your team. Both have frustrated me endlessly this season in particular D-Will because at his best he's such a good fit with Cousins imo and can make momentum changing plays. We need more complete players who bring it every night not guys with great talent that bring it 1-2 quarters a game and that take games off.
 
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I'm starting to lean towards hoping Rudy opts out, try and resign IT to a reasonable $6mil/year type deal and we go all-in with development next season with Ben, D-Will, our new rook, IT, and Cuz as the main core. I just don't think we're in a position as a team to commit to Rudy-Cuz as a duo moving forward. We simply do not have the flexibility money wise or the assets on the roster to make it work.

The Landry acquisition is looking pretty bad.
 
Other than overanalyzing a rookie and a 3rd yr player who did not play that much prior to Kings, an interesting take. But.... Ben, as you pointed out, was a freshmen last year on a very good team. Now he is a rookie on a very poor team with many changes going on (IT from bench to starting, adding DWill and Gay, etc) and perhaps too high expectations on himself. His up side is really great and many others from other teams and broadcasters have said so. Sometime next year should be his breakout year to the next level and a year or two later to the top level. PDA and Malone have said the rebuilding is a multi-year process and player eval is only part of player-integration into a winning culture.

DWill, IMHO, is sort of in the Tyreke situation, very high expectations on a team that did not use him correctly (Minny) and now on a poor team where his position suddenly got filled with a super player in Rudy and his role is still being experimented with. Is he a 3 or a 4? If he is a 4 then is JT a bench 5? or a 4 where he has played 80-90% of the time? Is DWill best off the bench with an IT and Acy or.........? That's what rebuilding is all about I think. There are 1,255,000,000 (1 billion 255 million) combinations of 5-player teams on a 13 man roster plus personalities and abilities to consider. A daunting task being addressed by real experts (IMHO) in a practical time frame.

I am more encouraged now than at any time since 1998. The core, Cuz, is there. The top SF is there. A hotshot guard is there. Other pieces seem like they will contribute big time but it will take time. Like the young bull and the old bull said standing on a hill overlooking a herd of beautiful heifers below. The young bull said, "Oh boy, lest run down there and get one!" to which the old bull said, "Lets walk down there and have them all!".
 
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Other than overanalyzing a rookie and a 3rd yr player who did not play that much prior to Kings, an interesting take. But.... Ben, as you pointed out, was a freshmen last year on a very good team. Now he is a rookie on a very poor team with many changes going on (IT from bench to starting, adding DWill and Gay, etc) and perhaps too high expectations on himself. His up side is really great and many others from other teams and broadcasters have said so. Sometime next year should be his breakout year to the next level and a year or two later to the top level. PDA and Malone have said the rebuilding is a multi-year process and player eval is only part of player-integration into a winning culture.

DWill, IMHO, is sort of in the Tyreke situation, very high expectations on a team that did not use him correctly (Minny) and now on a poor team where his position suddenly got filled with a super player in Rudy and his role is still being experimented with. Is he a 3 or a 4? If he is a 4 then is JT a bench 5? or a 4 where he has played 80-90% of the time? Is DWill best off the bench with an IT and Acy or.........? That's what rebuilding is all about I think. There are 6,227,020,800 (6 billion 227 million) combinations of players on a 13 man roster plus personalities and abilities to consider. A daunting task being addressed by real experts (IMHO) in a practical time frame.

I am more encouraged now than at any time since 1998. The core, Cuz, is there. The top SF is there. A hotshot guard is there. Other pieces seem like they will contribute big time but it will take time. Like the young bull and the old bull said standing on a hill overlooking a herd of beautiful heifers below. The young bull said, "Oh boy, lest run down there and get one!" to which the old bull said, "Lets walk down there and have them all!".

Well put. It is interesting that fans of other teams and announcers of other teams see more in Ben than a lot of us here do. I think we are seeing him through the frustrated eyes of the last half decade. There is also a theoretical fear that we need to win very quickly because Cuz may tire of us so we are expecting too much from Ben.

As to both of them, I say keep them and lets see what they evolve into. This team is in so much flux it is asking a lot to expect a player still trying very hard to find his way in the NBA to do that while he is finding his way within his own team. We are building an athletic team and these two guys are part of it.
 
Well put. It is interesting that fans of other teams and announcers of other teams see more in Ben than a lot of us here do. I think we are seeing him through the frustrated eyes of the last half decade.

No, its just the normal ignorance other teams/national fans have of a backwater like Sacto. They don't see anything in Ben this year. They don't know even know how he's played. They are just stuck on the predraft evaluations, because that is the last time they paid any attention. The reality of the performance here, or the reasons for it, is lost on them. A lot of Kings fans keep trying to do the same thing, but less out of ignorance than partisanship/homerism.

There is also the point that everyone assumes we are a stupid franchise who messes up players, and so its probably our fault he's not what the predraft rankings thought he was.
 
There's a lot of interesting thoughts being shared here, too much probably for me to respond to anything directly, but I like the direction the conversation is going. My intention in starting the thread was to kind of gauge where people were at regarding the direction the team is going or should be going this off-season. We're in a very different place right now than where we were at the start of the season -- the personnel has completely changed, the decisions that need to be made are completely different. Any fading hope of a Cousins/Evans duo is long gone now and the question everyone is trying to answer is whether IT/Gay/Cousins is a core we can build around and succeed.

For those who didn't want to read the whole essay -- here's what I was getting at: Both BMac and DWill were trending up at the time of the trade. McLemore had just taken 17 shots in back to back games (still his best stretch of the season). Williams had taken at least 10 shots in his last 4 consecutive games and his averages for those games were 17 points and 5.5 rebs. You could look at the record and even see some progress competitively. We lost by 6 to the Clippers, lost by 2 to Golden State, lost by 2 to OKC, lost by 6 to the Lakers and then went 2-2 in the next four. After that, these guys just completely disappeared. I don't think they both suddenly and coincidentally regressed at the exact moment we shuffled our lineup -- I think they were on an upward trend and then their roles changed so dramatically that they've spent the next three months trying to find their spots again.

No one wanted to tackle the question I posed at the end regarding the lack of involvement of both DWill and BMac offensively in home games since the Rudy Gay trade. I said I had a tentative theory, here it is:

IT, Rudy Gay, and DMC all have something in common personality wise. They all want the ball at the end of the game. With the surge of adrenaline provided by a cheering friendly crowd behind them, they chuck the offense in the fourth quarter and take turns "putting the team on their backs" instead. This worked for us in the Washington game but more often the opposite is true.

Look at the shot distribution in our last game:

In the 4th quarter:

Rudy Gay took 4 shots and 3 FTs
DMC took 5 shots and 3 FTs
IT took 2 shots
DWill took 3 FTs
McCallum took 1 shot (at the 8:33 mark)
JT took 1 shot (at the 10:45 mark)
BMac took 1 shot (at the 11:22 mark)

In OT:

Rudy Gay took 5 shots
DMC took 6 shots and 2 FTs
IT took 4 FTs
BMac took 1 shot.

Whatever role in our offense exists for players not named Gay, Cousins, or Thomas completely evaporates down the stretch particularly in home games. McLemore actually beat the odds and took more than 10 shots in a home game for only the third time this year. 15 of those shots came in the first 3 quarters.

The idea of "we've got more 20pt scorers than you" sounds like a good one in theory but it almost never works out as well as you'd expect. Piling on scorers doesn't lead to wins. Indiana this season has 1 go-to scorer. San Antonio has 1 go-to scorer. Miami for the most part has 1 go-to scorer. OKC has 1 go-to scorer (or at least they did while they were the best team in the conference). What wins consistently in the league is when you have a system in which every player knows their role and you identify players with the right skill-set to execute your system efficiently. Indiana and San Antonio aren't necessarily better at drafting talent than everyone else, they're better at identifying guys who fit particular roles and then putting those guys in a position to succeed. That's why they're consistently competitive.

Bottom line here is something we all agree on... Cousins is our guy. He's already a top 10 scorer playing only 32 minutes a game. He's 6th in PER. With any justice he's first team all-NBA this season at 23 years old. He's going to get even better. Before we commit all of our salary cap flexibility for the next few years to the three-headed monster, I think we really need to stop and reassess whether flashy point totals is really what we're after here. I'm leaning the opposite way. McLemore is 21. Williams is 22. We could go into all sorts of explanations for why they've been so inconsistent, but we can see that they are capable of producing exactly what we need given more opportunity. 17 pts is more than enough for a second option. 14 points is more than enough for a third option. We get better from here by building a system around complimentary players not by chasing after point totals and bankable name recognition.
 
The sad part is talent does not develop much with the Kings lately. I thought initially it was the Maloof's culture but maybe there still remnants of that curse with the new ownership. I had hope Coach Malone and Alessandro would have changed that.

I'd imagine BMac in NY would be enjoying the same success as T.Hardaway had he landed in NY.
Or had we drafted MCW, he would also sucked and not be the ROY contender he is now in Philly.
I also think if the Kings had drafted Steph Curry instead of Evans on draft day, there wouldn't be any all-star Steph Cury in the NBA now. He would be just another twinner point guard who can't defend and zero confidence. Same with Klay Thompson, had the Kings drafted him instead of Jimmer, his style of play would definitely had him benched and never had a chance to shine if was with the Kings. Kawhi Leonard would have been another John Salmons/Gerald Wallace cast off if had he ended up with Kings and not Spurs.

There are a lot of players to sight examples of. I mean the team environment, system, personnel contributes a lot to the development and chance to succeed of the player unless the player is a natural superstar ie. Lebron, Durant, MJ, Duncan etc.
 
When Williams was starting with Ben, it did seem that Derrick was helping Ben's development, because he had no preconceived ideas about what Ben was or wasn't. It was just two young players trying to help each other get to the rim as much as possible.

D-Will set up Ben going to the rim better than anyone else these season. Both of these guys thrive on getting their hands on the rim as much as possible. With that style in common, they did seem to have very good chemistry.

What this means or could have meant going forward, I have no idea. Just something I noticed...and it did feel completely different before the Gay trade
 
When Williams was starting with Ben, it did seem that Derrick was helping Ben's development, because he had no preconceived ideas about what Ben was or wasn't. It was just two young players trying to help each other get to the rim as much as possible.

D-Will set up Ben going to the rim better than anyone else these season. Both of these guys thrive on getting their hands on the rim as much as possible. With that style in common, they did seem to have very good chemistry.

What this means or could have meant going forward, I have no idea. Just something I noticed...and it did feel completely different before the Gay trade

Are you just thinking of that one game where they lob citied lob city? I can only recall them setting each other up a couple times after that one game.