Peja

[OptimusRhyme]

I'm not sure if it's just me but I think Peja is going to be back to his normal self this year. The team is more organized, Peja is our main scorer again, were energized with new additions Reef, Garcia, Wells.. It's his contract year (well player option) and he's going to have to play great to get the contract he wants, and Personally I want Peja to stick around on this team for a long time, he is a King.. I just can't see him going anywhere else...
I think his scoring and shooting percentages will be up again this year, Reef & Wells brought a whole new dimention to our team with Low post scoring being their best offensive weapon, and with Peja, Bibby & Miller floating around the arc there going to get a lot of easier looks, plus the good looks with the normal cuts and screens... I dunno, I just think alot of positive things happend this year, and I think Peja will be back.

Does anyone agree with me?

 

[Bricklayer]

Does anyone agree with me?

Yes and no. When you get right down to it he wasn't that far from his normal self last year. He's ALWAYS his normal self. Last year was a down year percentagewise and getting outrebounded by his PG. But scoringwise? 20ppg. That's right there for his career.

People are still kidding themselves with "Peja as our main scorer" stuff, at least as some sort of mega-scorer averaging 5 mroe points than anybody else. We've got about 4 main scorers. Peja is just one of them. Brad is the only starter that would rather pass than shoot. Reef's spent most of his career as a #1 option and actually has a higher career scoring average than Peja, Mike emerged last year as potentially a #1 ahead of Peja, and Bonzi has the talent to be a 20pt socrer and has come to Sacto looking for minutes and shots. If "normal self" means Peja will be back to his career averages + maybe slightly more, sure. He almost always is. If "normal self" means he will return to what he was for about 3 months in 2003-04, then no. Too much competition,and no personal assistmen to set him up. If the other guys are very aggressive and do not pass, 18ppg. If they are more willing to move the ball 22ppg. Either way its just Peja. Same scorer he's been his whole career.

P.S. As far as motivation goes, the contract shouldn't be much of one. As long as Peja puts up anything that looks like his normal numbers, some stupid club is going to offer him max next year. All that is in doubt is whether we are that stupid club or not.

 

[chelle]

I am going to agree with you completely. I do, however, reserve the right to not be too disappointed if I am wrong.

I do believe that last year was just an off year. I am also going to give him ONE more chance during the off season to prove me right- he CAN play during the second season!

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Yes and no. When you get right down to it he wasn't that far from his normal self last year. He's ALWAYS his normal self. Last year was a down year percentagewise and getting outrebounded by his PG. But scoringwise? 20ppg. That's right there for his career.

People are still kidding themselves with "Peja as our main scorer" stuff, at least as some sort of mega-scorer averaging 5 mroe points than anybody else. We've got about 4 main scorers. Peja is just one of them. Brad is the only starter that would rather pass than shoot. Reef's spent most of his career as a #1 option and actually has a higher career scoring average than Peja, Mike emerged last year as potentially a #1 ahead of Peja, and Bonzi has the talent to be a 20pt socrer and has come to Sacto looking for minutes and shots. If "normal self" means Peja will be back to his career averages + maybe slightly more, sure. He almost always is. If "normal self" means he will return to what he was for about 3 months in 2003-04, then no. Too much competition,and no personal assistmen to set him up. If the other guys are very aggressive and do not pass, 18ppg. If they are more willing to move the ball 22ppg. Either way its just Peja. Same scorer he's been his whole career.

P.S. As far as motivation goes, the contract shouldn't be much of one. As long as Peja puts up anything that looks like his normal numbers, some stupid club is going to offer him max next year. All that is in doubt is whether we are that stupid club or not.

Well when I say " Normal Self" I am referring to the 2003-2004 season where he was the MVP candidate (And I know you can't have an MVP type season every year), it just seemed like he could of had a better year last year, with his injuries, everything going on with the team, hit 70 less three pointers from the year before but that is mostly due to playing only 61 games, Aside from looking at his stats, I don't think last year he was the impact player and game changer he was in 2003-2004, it kinda seemed like last year he was in the background, when he should of been up in front... I dunno I just think things are looking alot brighter for Peja this year, with the team all settled down, no crazy trades happning or trade rumors. I think Peja will be back to All-star form again this year.

 

[Bricklayer]

Well when I say " Normal Self" I am referring to the 2003-2004 season where he was the MVP candidate (And I know you can't have an MVP type season every year), it just seemed like he could of had a better year last year, with his injuries, everything going on with the team, hit 70 less three pointers from the year before but that is mostly due to playing only 61 games, Aside from looking at his stats, I don't think last year he was the impact player and game changer he was in 2003-2004, it kinda seemed like last year he was in the background, when he should of been up in front... I dunno I just think things are looking alot brighter for Peja this year, with the team all settled down, no crazy trades happning or trade rumors. I think Peja will be back to All-star form again this year.

I assumed that was what you meant, but that's been kind of the myth. Guy had a career year. Or career half year. Had multiple designated passers who did nothing but set him up so he could have that career year, and that is somehow "normal". Hardly. That was the exception, and kind of artificial to boot. Think Vlade made that happen, and few if any players have the saavy and/or desire to do such a thing. In any case, Bonzi is no Doug, SAR is certainly no Vlade, and even both Mike and Brad take more shots than they did two years ago. The situation/team structure could hardly be more different, and frankly I'm not even sure Peja, never the hungriest of players, is as hungry as he was at that time either. Seems very satisified with his life, his game, and doesn't seem to feel much of an obligation to do anything he doesn't feel like doing.

 

[sono]

yes, I'm positive his scoring would go up. We got rid of a black hole in Cat, plus SAR's low post and Bonzi's cutting should give him more open looks than the end of the last season.
Although all our starting 5s are scorers, Peja remains the main weapon. Even he doesn't score he's the one who attracts the best defenders of the opposing teams easing the games for the rest of the teammates.

 

[Kings113]

I'm not sure if it's just me but I think Peja is going to be back to his normal self this year. The team is more organized, Peja is our main scorer again, were energized with new additions Reef, Garcia, Wells.. It's his contract year (well player option) and he's going to have to play great to get the contract he wants, and Personally I want Peja to stick around on this team for a long time, he is a King.. I just can't see him going anywhere else...
I think his scoring and shooting percentages will be up again this year, Reef & Wells brought a whole new dimention to our team with Low post scoring being their best offensive weapon, and with Peja, Bibby & Miller floating around the arc there going to get a lot of easier looks, plus the good looks with the normal cuts and screens... I dunno, I just think alot of positive things happend this year, and I think Peja will be back.

Does anyone agree with me?

Yes.

Last season was kinda disappointing overall, just up and down.

 

[Londonking]

I assumed that was what you meant, but that's been kind of the myth. Guy had a career year. Or career half year. Had multiple designated passers who did nothing but set him up so he could have that career year, and that is somehow "normal". Hardly. That was the exception, and kind of artificial to boot. Think Vlade made that happen, and few if any players have the saavy and/or desire to do such a thing. In any case, Bonzi is no Doug, SAR is certainly no Vlade, and even both Mike and Brad take more shots than they did two years ago. The situation/team structure could hardly be more different, and frankly I'm not even sure Peja, never the hungriest of players, is as hungry as he was at that time either. Seems very satisified with his life, his game, and doesn't seem to feel much of an obligation to do anything he doesn't feel like doing.

It maybe that without Vlade and Doug we do not see Peja's stats get back to his best season. However, I doubt that his motivation willbe such a big factor.

Ive never been to an NBA game but i believe the intensity of the crowd must be a factor in the way these players (like Peja) perform on the court.

I mean we're not talking about a sales job, where the employee has reached his bonus level so cant be bothered to make anymore calls, or take that trip out of town needed to secure a large order...this is NBA, heart and soul stuff. Egos are on the line and with the reenergised starting 5 that Peja finds himself in i think there is every chance we will see the positive, free scoring role player we need him to be.

 

[Bricklayer]

I made this point once partially before in another thread, but thought since its Saturday, might as well flesh it out:

Starting lineup FGAs, FTAs, Assists comparison 03-04 to today

O3-04
Vlade.....8.2 FGA 3.2 FTA 5.3ast
Miller....10.2 FGA 4.6 FTA 4.3ast
Christie..8.4 FGA 2.1 FTA 4.2ast
Bibby....14.3 FGA 4.5 FTA 5.4ast
-------------------------------
TOTAL 41.1 FGA 14.4 FTA 19.2ast
(Peja.....17.1 FGA 5.2 FTA 2.1ast)

05-06 (based on numbers last year for Mike/Brad, and numbers in last year of fulltime starting for SAR/Bonzi)
Miller....10.9 FGA 5.1 FTA 3.9ast
Rahim...14.6 FGA 6.7 FTA 3.0ast
Wells....13.2 FGA 4.2 FTA 3.3ast
Bibby....15.8 FGA 5.2 FTA 6.8ast
--------------------------------
TOTAL 54.5 FGA 21.2 FTA 17.0ast
(Peja = ???)

There is just vastly more competition there for shots, and less passing to boot even after you apply the Sacramento effect. If I was going to assume, falsely of course, that the starting lineup as a whole was going to put up exactly the same number of shots as it did in 03-04, Peja would be left with about 2 shots a game, and actually maybe only 1 shot a game since there are far more free throws in the current bunch as well. Obviously that is not going to happen. But waiting for him to somehow launch that same number of shots again with a shot-happy group of high-scoring teammates all wanting their looks is highly unlikely barring a major string of injuries to everyone but Peja.

 

[sono]

...I mean we're not talking about a sales job, where the employee has reached his bonus level so cant be bothered to make anymore calls, or take that trip out of town needed to secure a large order...this is NBA, heart and soul stuff. Egos are on the line and with the reenergised starting 5 that Peja finds himself in i think there is every chance we will see the positive, free scoring role player we need him to be.

LOL, good sample... still laughing...

The situation/team structure could hardly be more different, and frankly I'm not even sure Peja, never the hungriest of players, is as hungry as he was at that time either. Seems very satisified with his life, his game, and doesn't seem to feel much of an obligation to do anything he doesn't feel like doing.

He doesn't have to have a big hunger in order to perform to his top. He needs to feel just be part of the team to be old himself back in 03/04. I don't think he's had that feeling since CWebb's return yet.

 

[Bricklayer]

LOL, good sample... still laughing...

He doesn't have to have a big hunger in order to perform to his top. He needs to feel just be part of the team to be old himself back in 03/04. I don't think he's had that feeling since CWebb's return yet.

No, he needs to feel he IS the team in order to be back to 03-04. And that's not going to happen with this lineup.

Feeling part of the team might at least get him back to grabbing more rebounds than a member of the RCD, but he would have to be forcefed to approach 03-04 offensively, and this crew is hungry for shots themselves and don't have the time or inclination to cater to Peja the way Vlade or Doug might have.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

I made this point once partially before in another thread, but thought since its Saturday, might as well flesh it out:

Starting lineup FGAs, FTAs, Assists comparison 03-04 to today

O3-04
Vlade.....8.2 FGA 3.2 FTA 5.3ast
Miller....10.2 FGA 4.6 FTA 4.3ast
Christie..8.4 FGA 2.1 FTA 4.2ast
Bibby....14.3 FGA 4.5 FTA 5.4ast
-------------------------------
TOTAL 41.1 FGA 14.4 FTA 19.2ast
(Peja.....17.1 FGA 5.2 FTA 2.1ast)

05-06 (based on numbers last year for Mike/Brad, and numbers in last year of starting for SAR/Bonzi)
Miller....10.9 FGA 5.1 FTA 3.9ast
Rahim...14.6 FGA 6.7 FTA 3.0ast
Wells....13.2 FGA 4.2 FTA 3.3ast
Bibby....15.8 FGA 5.2 FTA 6.8ast
--------------------------------
TOTAL 54.5 FGA 21.2 FTA 17.0ast
(Peja = ???)

There is just vastly more competition there for shots, and less passing to boot even after you apply the Sacramento effect. If I was going to assume, falsely of course, that the starting lineup as a whole was going to put up exactly the same number of shots as it did in 03-04, Peja would be left with about 2 shots a game, and actually maybe only 1 shot a game since there are far more free throws in the current bunch as well. Obviously that is not going to happen. But waiting for him to somehow launch that same number of shots again with a shot-happy group of high-scoring teammates all wanting their looks is highly unlikely barring a major string of injuries to everyone but Peja.

Yah I understand the point your making, and it makes sense, I would love too see Peja average 25 a game again but I'm going to have to agree with you in that category thats its not going to happen, just too many scorers, but what I would love to see is the aggressiveness and impact Peja made on games in 2003-2004, like uping his rebounding again, shooting those high percentages, staying after practice to shoot 500 shots.. I think I recall from an article that Peja stopped doing that last year.

 

[VF21]

I don't think he's had that feeling since CWebb's return yet.

At what point - if ever - in the future can we hope to be able to discuss Peja without bringing up the most evil and diabolical person ever to don a King's uniform?

The ONLY thing Webber wanted was a team that would fight like warriors every night with the same hunger he had. Unfortunately, he may not have expressed that the right way - especially where some egos and sensitive spirits are concerned.

Can't people talk about Peja without having to bring up the Webber excuse? It's not like he tied Peja to a chair and forced him to consume grits or something...

 

[sono]

O3-04
Vlade.....8.2 FGA 3.2 FTA 5.3ast
Miller....10.2 FGA 4.6 FTA 4.3ast
Christie..8.4 FGA 2.1 FTA 4.2ast
Bibby....14.3 FGA 4.5 FTA 5.4ast
-------------------------------
TOTAL 41.1 FGA 14.4 FTA 19.2ast
(Peja.....17.1 FGA 5.2 FTA 2.1ast)

05-06 (based on numbers last year for Mike/Brad, and numbers in last year of fulltime starting for SAR/Bonzi)
Miller....10.9 FGA 5.1 FTA 3.9ast
Rahim...14.6 FGA 6.7 FTA 3.0ast
Wells....13.2 FGA 4.2 FTA 3.3ast
Bibby....15.8 FGA 5.2 FTA 6.8ast
--------------------------------
TOTAL 54.5 FGA 21.2 FTA 17.0ast
(Peja = ???)

There is just vastly more competition there for shots, and less passing to boot even after you apply the Sacramento effect. If I was going to assume, falsely of course, that the starting lineup as a whole was going to put up exactly the same number of shots as it did in 03-04, Peja would be left with about 2 shots a game, and actually maybe only 1 shot a game since there are far more free throws in the current bunch as well. Obviously that is not going to happen. But waiting for him to somehow launch that same number of shots again with a shot-happy group of high-scoring teammates all wanting their looks is highly unlikely barring a major string of injuries to everyone but Peja.

It's not accurate if you just add SAR & Bonzi's stats from the last season to get the total. Take a look (from your stat):

Miller....10.2 FGA 4.6 FTA 4.3ast 03/04
Miller....10.9 FGA 5.1 FTA 3.9ast 04/05

Bibby....14.3 FGA 4.5 FTA 5.4ast 03/04
Bibby....15.8 FGA 5.2 FTA 6.8ast 04/05

There's not much difference between these seasons.
Now it goes down to Rahim & Wells. Rahim was the 2nd & Bonzi was 3rd in scoring in their respective teams in the last season. I don't think that would remain the same this season and having these new scorers Mike & Brad's FGA might go down. Plus I don't expect Peja's FGA would be the same as in 03/04, but at least I expect him better than the last season.

 

[sono]

At what point - if ever - in the future can we hope to be able to discuss Peja without bringing up the most evil and diabolical person ever to don a King's uniform?

The ONLY thing Webber wanted was a team that would fight like warriors every night with the same hunger he had. Unfortunately, he may not have expressed that the right way - especially where some egos and sensitive spirits are concerned.

Can't people talk about Peja without having to bring up the Webber excuse? It's not like he tied Peja to a chair and forced him to consume grits or something...

I don't see anything wrong with the statment I made.

 

[bozzwell]

Yet another Pedja thread? On top of that there was an attempt at resurrecting Webber Offcially traded thread (props to Brick for superquick lockup)?

This TDOS will never end.

At any rate here is my $0.02...

Anti-Pedja spin:

1. He cannot make his own shot. Not only that, he needs his teammates to carry him around the screens, set the ball in his hands, raise his arms and flick his wrists for him in order for him to get those 20ppg.

2. He's a 3/4 player. He dissapears in 4th. It has been alleged that he spends 4th quarters of Kings games in a cave on Pakistan/Afganistan border plotting attacks on US. He's evil.

3. He's soft.

Pro-Pedja spin:

1. If only his team would use him correctly he would be superstar, 25+ppg player. He is a superman.

2. He's 3/4 player because he's Superman and in 4th quarter (after a superquick wardrobe change) he is flying around the planet fighting bad guys. In play-offs he is also working on solving World hunger problem and designing SUV's that can get 200 mpg.

3. He's soft.

My spin:

1. He is a great shooter and a very, very reliable scorer overall. On a great team he can elevate to be great part of that great team. He cannot elevate a team to greatness all by himself. Then again, very few players can do that.

2. Points from first 3/4 and regular season wins still count. Pedja does not have tools necessary for a player to perform consistently in clutch. He doesn't have separation speed or quickness to peel off of his marker when games get tight. Can he do other things or add to his repertoir to address this deficiency? I don't know. We've never been much of a close-out team and I would need to see us try different approaches in 4th quarters of close and play off games before I am ready to write Pedja off completely.

3. He's soft.

 

[VF21]

I don't see anything wrong with the statement I made.

Sorry, but it seems pretty lame to keep mentioning Webber. He was traded in February. He's gone; history; toast.

Your statement implies that Peja was so traumitized by whatever it was the evil Webber did that he STILL hasn't recovered.

If that's the case, then Peja needs to find another job - I'm thinking something that doesn't require a backbone.

Do I think it's the case? Nope. I think Peja is Peja. I think he'll put forth his usual amount of effort and I think he'll put up decent but not spectacular numbers - if he's not plagued by injuries like last season.

If people would quit making comments that liken the return of Webber to the plague of locusts, then perhaps we could just get back to being fans instead of trying to psychoanalyze someone we have virtually nothing in common with...

Webber's return wasn't the beginning of all things evil in Peja's life. Peja had played with Webber since 1999. To belabor the old argument, they weren't strangers on the court. No matter what might or might not have occurred off the court, they are both professionals and Webber coming back to the team shouldn't have caused Peja undue harm. If it did, I would like - just once - for a scintilla of the blame to fall at Peja's feet instead of being the sole responsibility of Webber.

I quoted you partially because your comment was representative of a number of other similiar comments, not simply because I was trying to single you out. It's the topic not the poster that I was reacting to...

GO KINGS!!!!!

 

[VF21]

Yet another Pedja thread? On top of that there was an attempt at resurrecting Webber Offcially traded thread (props to Brick for superquick lockup)?

This TDOS will never end.

At any rate here is my $0.02...

Anti-Pedja spin:

1. He cannot make his own shot. Not only that, he needs his teammates to carry him around the screens, set the ball in his hands, raise his arms and flick his wrists for him in order for him to get those 20ppg.

2. He's a 3/4 player. He dissapears in 4th. It has been alleged that he spends 4th quarters of Kings games in a cave on Pakistan/Afganistan border plotting attacks on US. He's evil.

3. He's soft.

Pro-Pedja spin:

1. If only his team would use him correctly he would be superstar, 25+ppg player. He is a superman.

2. He's 3/4 player because he's Superman and in 4th quarter (after a superquick wardrobe change) he is flying around the planet fighting bad guys. In play-offs he is also working on solving World hunger problem and designing SUV's that can get 200 mpg.

3. He's soft.

My spin:

1. He is a great shooter and a very, very reliable scorer overall. On a great team he can elevate to be great part of that great team. He cannot elevate a team to greatness all by himself. Then again, very few players can do that.

2. Points from first 3/4 and regular season wins still count. Pedja does not have tools necessary for a player to perform consistently in clutch. He doesn't have separation speed or quickness to peel off of his marker when games get tight. Can he do other things or add to his repertoir to address this deficiency? I don't know. We've never been much of a close-out team and I would need to see us try different approaches in 4th quarters of close and play off games before I am ready to write Pedja off completely.

3. He's soft.

Arguably one of the best overall comments - pro and con - about Peja I've seen posted in a very long time.

I especially agree with the part I emphasized.

 

[bozzwell]

Arguably one of the best overall comments - pro and con - about Peja I've seen posted in a very long time.

I especially agree with the part I emphasized.

Thank You VF21!

The part that you highlighted was originally discussed on the old forum in the thread where Brick disected Princeton offense. If I remember correctly, his argument was that despite the obvious benefits of Princeton, you still need a closer type of superstar in the clutch. Since, we don't have one, I would really like to see the team and especially the coaches think out of the box to address that.

 

[allrightythen]

I think this is a little different team than we've had in the past and that might motivate Peja to be a little different sort of a player (hopefully). Offensively not much will change, we can probably run the same style of plays before with maybe a few more post-up type plays for Bonzi and SAR, which should just open things up for Peja/Bibby to have a few more open shots. My hope is that because Bonzi and SAR can take such an active role in the offense it will free up Peja to be more well-rounded as he will have to expend less effort to be the super-scorer many believe he is. I'm probably stretching with this hope, but I have to find some reason to believe Peja will round out his game at least a little bit.

 

[Netguy115]

wow this thread is lame...trying to predict FGA and all....how can you predict such a dynamic stat?

let's just let the season start already....

 

[piksi]

some stupid club is going to offer him max next year

Kings ?