Peja!!

[sashaXJR]

all that talk about leadership, i just can't believe....you know my grandmother is a great "leader", but saddly she is 78 years old, so all she does is talk......no more walk, and the same goes for Mr. Webber....that guy, as good as he was 3 years ago, he is not anymore, and he knows that himself.....but he goes out blaming teammates for smoking, giving up, not fighting, this or that....just the talk, no action....why is everyone looking at the statistics, when trying to look for a team player...it is a team game, and triple doubles are no good for a single player...that means he is choking the game, taking the ball out of someone hands.....Tim Duncan is a perfect example, and now Webber has better numbers than Duncan.....would you rather have Tim or Chris in your team...

 

[bigbadred00]

Sloter, same can be said last year. We're going in circles. We also played Hedo instead of Peja in 2002 for 4 complete games and Peja averaged 6 ppg.

Point being Webber #1, Kings "not that good 11-13" regular season still beat a 50 win Mavs team in 5 games while we couldn't seem to muster it. Your right we never won anything with Webber except a trip to the WCF, 3 trips to the Semi-Finals. What was our playoff record before Webber got here? I'll give you we definitely had help for Webber, but we have never won a playoff series in the last what 15 years without Webber being in the lineup for all of the games.

 

[bigbadred00]

dude, if we couldn't run offensively which you guys keep complaining about, our offense was stagnant, then why were we 2nd in the league in scoring. please give me the rationale. you guys better look defensively before you start blaming chris for making our offense look like crap.

 

[sashaXJR]

what about Detroit...one great coach, bunch of loosers and a championship team, in a matter of one season....The Kings started falling appart when they (Chris)started talking about leadership....we didn't have a leader back in 2002, and we had a heck of a team....and we don't need Peja to be the leader, just to step up, and play his game.....we have a core of bibby, miller, stojakovic and those (3) would make up a great euro-style type of a team...you know Argentina national kind of........Lebron will be the greatest ever, but not without a good team....the only kings leader should be R Adelman, but thats where all the problems start (remember Portland)...

 

[bigbadred00]

sasha, triple doubles, 10 are ASSISTS!!!!!!!!!! ASSISTS....wtf....the points part is the easiest part its the assists part thats the hard part, I can't believe I'm arguing this. What does Webber need to average 12 assists a game to prove he's a team player.

 

[sloter]

Webber was a Mavs killer. I give you that, although last year he did have a negative +/- against them. He wasn't the reason why we went pass them, in fact, in at least 2 games we won in spite of his horrible play.

 

[bigbadred00]

great coach? larry brown had adelman fever till last year sasha, could get his team to the finals and couldn't finish the deal. the only great coaches i've seen in the last 20 years are Phil Jackson and Pat Riley. Don't you dare put Larry Brown into great coach catagory

 

[bigbadred00]

+/- really tells the story every time. Jumaine Jones is top 10 in +/- this year next you'll tell me he's an all-star.

 

[Bricklayer]

Brick, and what has Webber ever won ?

Indeed nothing.

But then again he came to his maturity late and injuries told the tale. he came frighteningly close in '02, without Peja BTW, and maybe given a ntoher year of maturity he makes one more play and we win. He was ready to win in '03, and then the knee went, and that as they say was that. He has busted his *** for us for three years now, but the body is fading. Finally became the guy who could win a championship on fire at the same time he became a guy unlikely to win one physically.

But in any case, this is not about Webber. He's gone. Probably never will win that title. But you know what? He's going to give it his best shot. The concern was never with replacing Webber -- if you had told me we traded him for KG (unrealistic as that may have been) I would have flown into town just to drive him to the airport. It was with replacing Webber with a non-competitor.

Peja may feel perfectly free to hit the glass, hit the floor, come through inthe clutch, inspire his teammates, and otherwise turn into a stud. Would LOVE to see it. But its got nothing to do with Webber. That formula is as old as sports -- its never changed. Great comeptitors win it all. Lesser ones do not. Webber is relevant only in that he finally discovered the formula late in his career. Peja has not.

 

[sashaXJR]

sasha, triple doubles, 10 are ASSISTS!!!!!!!!!! ASSISTS....wtf....the points part is the easiest part its the assists part thats the hard part, I can't believe I'm arguing this. What does Webber need to average 12 assists a game to prove he's a team player.

webber's 5 assist don't mean nothing...did you watch kings games before, the guy makes a mess inside, and than just shoots from perimeter....in a Kings team where we have two of the best shooters in the league....we need a power forward that is going to play under the basket...a one that is going to be less of a star, but worker....not a holywood tyra banks dating kind of a player....
that was a joke

 

[sashaXJR]

great coach? larry brown had adelman fever till last year sasha, could get his team to the finals and couldn't finish the deal. the only great coaches i've seen in the last 20 years are Phil Jackson and Pat Riley. Don't you dare put Larry Brown into great coach catagory

you obviously don't know much about basketball.......

No other coach has ever won a title without a superstar, a team full of 2nd rounders....Phil Jackson should take the KNicks over next year, and than you tell me he is a good coach....

 

[AleksandarN]

Peja is irrelevant (and indeed may have had no direct hand at all) -- except that the move was made in reference to him, if not at his behest, and now the fate of MY team lies in his butter soft hands. That is the problem. There has never been an NBA champion led by a player like Peja, EVER so far as I know. Not one. As my continuing goal is to see MY team win an NBA championship, seeing the franchise hitched up to a player who does have "it" is a bit alarming. If he were on another team, I would have no problem at all rooting for him because he seems like a basically nice man. But when he is on MY team, and holds MY team's fate in his hands, then being a weenie is 100% not acceptable, no matter how nice he is.

Peja has never performed like aplayer that bring an NBA championship to the Kings, or anywhere else. Not once. Not even for 50 games last season when his coring was up, but his hustle, rebounding, ability to beat the best defenders were same ole same ole. Vlade made him last year -- Vlade was the heart and passion to Peja's talent. It was a two-headed monster.

Now for you, so what, its just a team, and their ultimate success is irrelevant except as pertains to Peja. If he were traded to Orlando, you would suddenly arrive on an Orlando messageboard with the same hopes and concerns as you had here. For me, exactly the opposite is true -- Peja's ultimate success is irrelevant except as pertains to the Kings. Fundamentally opposed foci.

For both the sake of my team, as well as to a lesser extent Peja's sake as a nice guy, I hope he learns how to burn. But if he does not, if he continues on as he has throughout his entire career, then he's not simply not good enough, and my team will not win the title we have been chasing until he is replaced as the goto guy.

You people do not understand Pedja will never be a leader people will have realize that like you did brick in one of your other posts. The team is not in Pedja's hand it is the team that decides it's own destiny. Pedja is a major part in the team do not get me wrong but he is still part of the team. Pedja will have to step up no matter what. Let's get this straight Pedja's job is become the primary scorer on this team not take over this team. They do not need someone dominate the team they need players to play like a team. Once you get people trying to dominate the team it no longer is a team it uis a bunch of individuals Each person have a job on this team and everyone should be accountible how they carry out their job.

 

[outsider62]

Peja is irrelevant (and indeed may have had no direct hand at all) -- except that the move was made in reference to him, if not at his behest, and now the fate of MY team lies in his butter soft hands. That is the problem. There has never been an NBA champion led by a player like Peja, EVER so far as I know.
...
For both the sake of my team, as well as to a lesser extent Peja's sake as a nice guy, I hope he learns how to burn. But if he does not, if he continues on as he has throughout his entire career, then he's not simply not good enough, and my team will not win the title we have been chasing until he is replaced as the goto guy.

There are two wrong assumptation here. First: Kings can win without Peja being the man, but he should not be overlooked in offense. Also, he is not paid as the man, so there should be enough room for another star (Kid type, Ben Wallace type, TD type, CW type before injury) or for a good team (see Pistons last year). Second: Doug choked against Lakers in game 7, but two years later he was the man.

One more thing, nobody won it all having pg playing no defense. I believe Bibby can be the man if he decides to play defense and we all know that he can.

 

[bigbadred00]

And you do? You blame Webber for holding down the offence yet we were 2nd in the league in scoring? Are we supposed to get better.

Larry Brown has been with around 10 teams in his career, has gotten to the finals for the 3rd time and finally won it last year. He was the same as Adelman except for once Larry one the title. He is a good coach, I would never say a great coach. Adelman is also a good coach.

Larry had a great team, got a steal at the trade deadline and does have a superstar. Ben Wallace is a superstar defensive player. Sheed has been an all-star and has that kind of skill. Hamilton and Billups could have easily made the All-Star team this year except there is a glut of all-star quality guards in the east. And Prince is one of the best stoppers in the game. To top it all off they had a great bench. Yes they won without an offensive superstar but they had the best team going into the playoffs, did not suffer any injuries and definitely benefitted from Malone getting hurt and not playing. They probally would have won anyway.

 

[bigbadred00]

If Webber was out of the offense this year? Do we put up 110 points? 115? 120 points? What do you guys want. We didn't have an offensive problem we had 2 big problems, Rebounding and Team Defence.

 

[sashaXJR]

our only problem was Webber, and now it is solved....the guy is no good, no wonder Tyra dumped him like that........so, let's move on

 

[sloter]

You people do not understand Pedja will never be a leader people will have realize that like you did brick in one of your other posts. The team is not in Pedja's hand it is the team that decides it's own destiny. Pedja is a major part in the team do not get me wrong but he is still part of the team. Pedja will have to step up no matter what. Let's get this straight Pedja's job is become the primary scorer on this team not take over this team. They do not need someone dominate the team they need players to play like a team. Once you get people trying to dominate the team it no longer is a team it uis a bunch of individuals Each person have a job on this team and everyone should be accountible how they carry out their job.

You are a wise man. Great post.

 

[bigbadred00]

my god man your a hater. i don't know why i even began with you. now i know why your a hater and i will stop reading your utter trash. your the type of kings fan i hate. our only problem is webber, are you utterly stupid. you better watch more games and watch the team more closely, the problem wasn't only webber.

 

[sloter]

bigbadred, do you mind me asking how old you are ?

 

[bigbadred00]

sasha you better hope to green god that 1 of those 3 players becomes the next ben wallace or NONE of our problems will be solved.

 

[bigbadred00]

22 years old. point? dude look at his posts i've said the major weakness and he just keeps harping on webber.

 

[AleksandarN]

our only problem was Webber, and now it is solved....the guy is no good, no wonder Tyra dumped him like that........so, let's move on

you are so wrong on so many levels it is not funny. Our problems are not solely Cwebber or any other player for that matter. Our problem stems from our make up of our team. We need to become better defensively and rebound better.

 

[outsider62]

you better watch more games and watch the team more closely, the problem wasn't only webber.

That's right, his defense was 1/4 of problem. The main problem is Bibby. Unlike physically incapable Webber he needs just to decide to play defense and he is the man. On top of that we need backup pg, hope Petrie aquires one soon (KA or GP).

 

[sloter]

22 years old. point?

you got too upset over a ridicilous comment.

 

[burekijogurt]

Brick, Webber is at a different point in his career than Peja is in his. The maturation process takes time, and Peja can still come around. The question here is not so much whether Peja can singlehandedly lead a team to a championship a la MJ, but whether he can be a major contributor to the success of the team. If he gets embraced back by the team as one of theirs, i beleive he can be. With inclusion, hustle and fire will come. Its hard to have the heart if you feel you are not wanted there by your teammates. Lets see how this plays out before we reach the verdict.

One thing that stands though, we did not get anything in return for Webb. Evan adding a center such as Nazh or getting Dalamber straight out would have been better than this.

 

[bigbadred00]

Webber can play defence, it's choose to play and when. He chose to play D in the playoffs last year. He chose to play D when we beat the Spurs this year. Can he play D for 82 games anymore, nope. Can he play for a 7 game series where games are not back-to-back, yup.

 

[sloter]

Yeah, Dirk only averaged about 26 points a game in those 5 games. Good D.
I don't even dare to look up Garnett's stats.

 

[bigbadred00]

sloter, I'm sick of all sasha's comments. never has had a positive one.

bure-that's what i wanted a center who plays a little D can board and block shots and move brad to the 4, we put the harder of the 2 guys to guard with the center and give brad the guy easier to guard. that's all i wanted. i just didn't want what we got. i love webber but i wanted something in return, i wanted a capable player who could play D. that's what i'm worred about. i would have rather gotten, Glen Robinson, Dalembert and Willie Green for Webber than what was given.

 

[bigbadred00]

sloter, Dirk was guarded by Peja right? Give me a break your going in circles. Webber doesn't guard Dirk when he plays the perimeter and that's what he usually does right? I thought we called Peja the Dirk stopper, now it was Webber on him the whole time, right.

 

[outsider62]

Webber can play defence, it's choose to play and when. He chose to play D in the playoffs last year. He chose to play D when we beat the Spurs this year. Can he play D for 82 games anymore, nope. Can he play for a 7 game series where games are not back-to-back, yup.

We can't have him and Bibby (the way he doesn’t play defense right now) and Miller in the same team and play a good defense. It is probably his best friend’s Bibby fault that he and Miller must help and he is not quick enough to do it anymore. He still can play good defense against less athletic opponents.