Peja needs to go

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Heuge said:
While I don't think player 1 is perfect in all he does, I think you are overstating the difference.
While you will "kill" me on the boards, you will not "kill" me defensively, nor will you "kill" me in transition, nor will you "kill" me with heart. Offensively, which is 50% of the game, you lose...by a landslide.
Offensively I lose by a landslide? Last year Odom, when alloweed to actually touch the ball, basically put up 17pts 10rebs 4ast. He has averaged nearly 6 asts before in a season. Those are Webberesque type numbers.

And please don't use heart in the same sentence with Peja. Much of this thread is about that very issue.
 
Bricklayer said:
Offensively I lose by a landslide? Last year Odom, when alloweed to actually touch the ball, basically put up 17pts 10rebs 4ast. He has averaged nearly 6 asts before in a season. Those are Webberesque type numbers.
1) We do not need another Webber type player in this offense.
2) Odom cannot score like Pedja can, I didn't even think that was arguable.
 
Bricklayer said:
And please don't use heart in the same sentence with Peja. Much of this thread is about that very issue.
Lamar and heart should also not be mentioned in the same sentence. That was more to my point.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
Lamar Odom has skills. We don't know how much "heart" he would have in our system, so to assume he has none isn't quite fair, IMHO.

The guy is playing with Kobe Bryant. If he can do ANYTHING on the court at the same time as Kobe, he could definitely flourish in our system.

Just my three cents...
 
VF21 said:
Lamar Odom has skills. We don't know how much "heart" he would have in our system, so to assume he has none isn't quite fair, IMHO.
I am refferng to the player I saw as a Clipper, just two years ago.
 

piksi

Hall of Famer
Bricklayer said:
Feel free. I'll take palyer two and kill you in every aspect of the game but one. If I need a scorer, I take Player 1. If I need everything else, its Player 2 in a landslide.
including dope ?
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Heuge said:
1) We do not need another Webber type player in this offense.
Don't we?

We just traded away one of the three creators from this offense (Doug) -- there is more than enough room for a player to come on in and assume that sort of role (might even say it would be a good thing to have a natural passer do it and make Mobley into more of a shooter), and Odom is the ideal type of guy to do it as a SF.

What we don't really have room for is a high volume shooter.


BTW, I do not argue, nor would I, that Lamar Odom is a great indomitable champion, but he's an extremely skilled player that's a pain in the *** to match up with. Suffice it to say that trying to put a twerp like Bowen or Hassel on him is not going to work. There are more than a few similarities to Webber with the guy, although he is more of a perimeter player at this point. But he's another mega-talent drafted very high (#4 overall) with tremedous all around skills who seems to be on the slow road to maturity -- he's still only 25 and has a long career ahead of him. All the reports I've heard about him say he is a nice unassuming guy, but came into the league too young and irresponsible. Grew up a lot last year in Miami though, and if there is ANY big player in the league right now beyond Garnett who can play the Webber role in an offense, its Lamar.
 
Gary said:
LOL WHY would Utah do this? The expiring contracts?
Here's the theory. How likely it sounds is up to personal opinion.

1. Freed of Boozer's contract. Maybe too rich for Larry Miller's blood in retrospect. There could be things going on behind closed doors in Utah that we're not aware of. Sloan and Miller are a demanding pair to be sure, Boozer's a laid back guy who's been slumping noticeably this month.

2. Vlade gets dumped immediately. LA probably sends along the buyout money.

3. George (iirc) has a year left on his contract. He's expensive for his output, but $5 mill isn't that hard to swallow. The Jazz were supposedly interested in him when he was last a FA. I don't know what they and Minnesota seem to see in this kid, but...diff'rent strokes.

4. Butler. He's cheap, locked in for his 4th year and he's proven capable of averaging 15-18 points over an extended period of time. He's having a decent year playing behind Kobe. As a first option, he'd be ready to maximize his potential, which is probably about 18, 6.5, 3.5, 1.75.

It would be a salary dump while acquiring a good, cheap young player. The Jazz could later target someone in free agency, they may have their eye on someone already.
 
Bricklayer said:
And please don't use heart in the same sentence with Peja. Much of this thread is about that very issue.
I don't know much from Peja, but Lamar frequently needs a kick in the butt to wake up and exploit his strengths.
 
Peja for Odom? No offense, but I would take the versatile Odom over the one-dimensional Peja. Odom is an efficient scorer who can play multiple positions, rebound the damn ball, and distribute the ball. More importantly, Odom can create his OWN shot effectively which Peja can't if his life depended on it. Guess which skill you need in the playoffs, when defense tightens up?
 
I like peja as much as the next guy but if odom is attainable then by all means PLEASE. He is an awesome talent and will not be shutdown come playoffs. He is a VERY tough player to match up with and few players in the league can stay with him.
 
Looking over the thread, observing the past few weeks, and season really, the conspiracy theorist in me says that this is maybe all part of Peja's diabolical plan. This is what he wants. He wants to the fans to become disinterested, angry and hostile towards him so he can help force his way out of Sacramento. Still hell bent over being traded he wants to anger the fans so much that the Kings brass feels pressure to move him....

I believe that not to be true. Moreover, I want it not to be true

P.S. But unfortunately for Peja, he hasn't been following along. Is he stuggling? Surely that can just be attributed to Rick Adelman and/or Chris Webber.:rolleyes: ;)
 
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for me all those comments are pointless.....with odom, with pierce or with jordan, it will be the same.....c-webb is the main guy on this team and we will depend on his ego and his health... .. def. strategy of any team in nba will remain the same "leave webber open around free throw line and we'll be fine".....
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
starks said:
for me all those comments are pointless.....with odom, with pierce or with jordan, it will be the same.....c-webb is the main guy on this team and we will depend on his ego and his health... .. def. strategy of any team in nba will remain the same "leave webber open around free throw line and we'll be fine".....
Your bias is showing.

This thread isn't about Webber. You don't need to make it about Webber. But if you HAVE to make it about Webber, at least make an attempt at being fair.

Webber's ego? Please. Without bringing up the obvious response, ALL players have egos. Some announce publicly they hope they've earned the right to retire as Sacramento Kings. OTHERS announce publicly they think the team is peaked and they want to go somewhere/anywhere else.

All this ridiculous comparion of two All-Star forwards is so old and so tiresome. The bottom line is they are BOTH Sacramento Kings. We have had a million threads about the possibility of trading Webber. We should be able to have an equal number about trading Pedja without the need for you to try and make it another bash against Webber.
 
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VF I kind of agree with him.. Although it was the wrong place to post it. No matter who we trade for, Webber will still need his shots. I think that is what is limiting our team more than anything. I believe it is almost like spotting the other team 20 shots a game when Webber is having an off night, which has been the case lately.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
Gary - you at least bring logic to the equation. All starks has done since he's been here is bag on Webber. It's tiresome, to say the least, especially when it's so obvious that he is ONLY here because of Pedja.

We're Kings fans. We can talk about our team, our favorite players, etc. without having someone continually bag on one player at every single opportunity.

I won't even argue Webber's stats this season in this thread, but anyone who can continually post nothing but derogatory comments about him is just looking for a reason to dump on him, IMHO.
 
VF21 - this is thread about trading peja and improving the TEAM performance, right?....Peja has to go, period....but it's not going to solve kings problems....now, any trade is not going to help....see christe/mobley trade....btw I'm new here and like shooters (see my nick) but I'm not here ONLY because of peja.....I like kings game (passing, up-tempo etc.) but recently I don't see that game.....Why?....You tell me....if I start you'll take that personally (read webber) as everything else written about c-webb..
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I believe many in Sacto have a bad case of Mavs-vision. It is a curious disease which seems to strike fans of high-powered offensive teams wherein a) they never think they have enough offense; and b) they think the solution to any problem is yet more offense.

With Webber "stifling" the offense, we have been LIGHTING IT UP. I mean, I read these threads and hear about how Webb is messing up the offense, and I just have to shake my head. We are #2 in the league in scoring. We LEAD the league in assists with our "selfish" leader. We are an offensive JUGGERNAUGHT. That's not the problem with the team, and there is certainly nobody on the team making us ineffective on that end of the floor.

Our problems are, and remain, defense and rebounding. Simple as that. Not Webber shooting. Any deal which can significantly alleviate either of those problems WILL make a difference. You take this offense, run the way it is now, and combine it with strong defense and rebounding, and this is a title team. Only one team in the league can outscore us (and then just barely in our head to heads). If we could stop anybody, we'd be scary.
 
Bricklayer said:
Cross post from NBA section, but I was just so terribly impressed by own cleverness -- that Ron Weinig guy ain't got nothing on me :) :

(note, Lakers have been rumored to be trying to get Boozer as well as Peja, and Utah is rumored to be trying to move both Boozer and Harpring):

Sacramento trades:
SF Peja Stojakovic(19.7 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1.9 apg in 38.3 minutes)
C Greg Ostertag(1.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.5 apg in 9.8 minutes)
PG Bobby Jackson(11.9 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 2.3 apg in 21.7 minutes)
Sacramento receives:
SF Matt Harpring(13.1 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 1.8 apg in 33.0 minutes)
PF Lamar Odom(15.7 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 3.5 apg in 36.4 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -4.4 ppg, +6.1 rpg, and +0.6 apg.

Utah trades:
SF Matt Harpring(13.1 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 1.8 apg in 33.0 minutes)
PF Carlos Boozer(17.8 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 2.8 apg in 34.8 minutes)
Utah receives:
C Greg Ostertag(1.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.5 apg in 9.8 minutes)
PG Bobby Jackson(11.9 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 2.3 apg in 21.7 minutes)
C Vlade Divac(0.8 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 0.5 apg in 4.6 minutes)
SF Caron Butler(14.6 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 1.8 apg in 35.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -2.0 ppg, -2.5 rpg, and +0.5 apg.

L.A. Lakers trades:
PF Lamar Odom(15.7 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 3.5 apg in 36.4 minutes)
C Vlade Divac(0.8 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 0.5 apg in 4.6 minutes)
SF Caron Butler(14.6 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 1.8 apg in 35.6 minutes)
L.A. Lakers receives:
SF Peja Stojakovic(19.7 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1.9 apg in 38.3 minutes)
PF Carlos Boozer(17.8 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 2.8 apg in 34.8 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +6.4 ppg, -3.6 rpg, and -1.1 apg.

+ Lakers throw Utah a pick to encourage them. Voila! (actually Utah would have to be stupid, but given that there are rumors of a Lakers garbage for Boozer trade, maybe cap room and two (or three) potential starters would do it.
TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Sacramento and L.A. Lakers being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Sacramento and L.A. Lakers had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.



You have been assigned Trade ID number 2281030

Great trade, but I think sending Tag back to Utah is worse than seeing Peja as a Laker!
 
hey im new here. i dunno if anyone has posted this but ive been thinkin lately since everybody says we need rebounding, defense, and athleticism. how bout we trade peja for ben wallace? there salaries are basically identical with ben being at 23 mil and peja at 24 mil. miller would probably be at small forward though. wut do u guys think?
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
...sigh...

Ben Wallace is a PF/C. Why on earth would Detroit give him up for a small forward who can shoot but can't create his own shot and couldn't possibly give them the kind of rebounding they currently get from Wallace?
 

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
EckoDemiks said:
oh yeah good point. well we can all dream cant we.
Well, that is a nice dream to have. I would love to see Big Ben as a King. :)

Oh, and welcome to KingsFans.com, Ecko. Good to have you here.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
ATTENTION GEOFF PETRIE:

Do whatever you need to do that will, in your opinion, make the Kings a better team. You have my support!!!
 

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
VF21 said:
ATTENTION GEOFF PETRIE:

Do whatever you need to do that will, in your opinion, make the Kings a better team. You have my support!!!
OH YEAH!!

In Petrie We Trust!!!.......credit to JSin