Peja needs to go

[shaka zulu]

Dont flame me for this, but maybe our problem lies in the combination of Brad Miller and Chris Webber. I think they are both great player, but together, they might not be a good pair because they dont really compliment each other's, at least not defensively. Offensively, they're awesome although they both offer the same thing (medium range jumpers, occasional drive, and great passing from the high post.) Defensively, they're both slow and not a blocking presence. It seems to me IF, and thats a big if, we're going to make any change. It should be to change our front court so that we have two starter that are a bit more complimentary to each other, so they can each cover the other's weakness rather than exposing it even more. That means, along with a jumper/passer in the high post, we need a back to the basket player who's strength is interior defense. Who is that player? i have no idea.

Interior presence defensively is all mental it's an attitude that comes with protecting the paint.If you look at the 80's boston celtics kevin mchale 6'10 larry Bird 6'9 and robert parish 7'0 were all slow to the foot players who helped the celtics win 3 championships 81,84,86.These dudes had little lateral defensive movement to slide defensively against quicker players that they matched up against often.what they did to make up for this lack of athletic ability was use position help defense intelligent timing and major hustle and desire to force the opposition to do things they didn't want to do.Larry bird slow foot and all was on several defensive 1st team 2nd team all league his early seasons, as was slow lateral shuffling kevin mchale who used his long wing span to intimidate the painted area .The celtics of the 80's made a committment to play defense using will power and desire to WIN at any cost even if they had to crawl to do it.There is no excuse for chris webber,Brad miller and peja to allow the nonsense that they do in the paint.

Chris webber can become a better interior defender if he wills to do so.He showed this against the spurs during the first spurs and kings arco arena game.He was ruffling his shorts and had tim duncan so frustrated Tim tried to be real physical after getting stripped two plays in a row by sealing chris with MAD ANGRY AGRESSION.He was defintely in his head and the papers raved about his defensive play the next day and tim was hot and the next game the REFS played into his cry baby favor by letting him play with no competiton.Chris wasn't allowed to be agressive and tough the next spurs and kings contest.

Peja also showed agression that first arco spurs and kings contest he lit bowen up for 29 pts I believe.If the kings are allowed to defend themselves and they make the effort to be agressive and play tough,they don't need to make any changes they just need to show some desire and get some breaks by the REFS to be able to compete like every one else.

Brad miller can also get more AGRESSIVE in that painted area Brad can move his feet with the best of them when he wants.You see brad dribbling hard to the basket.He does this with the same speed of kevin garnett, just watch how fast KG goes to the hole from free throw line out and then watch Brad go the hole free throw line out.You will see Brad maybe can get to the whole quicker with dribble than KG.That same speed can be used to moving his feet and clogging dribble drives on help defense.You don't need athleticism always to defend the paint and contest shots if you establish good position that's sometimes all you need because alot of the times good position can suprise the opposition into giving you the mistake with out having to have a 45 inch vertcal.

Now with peja his defensive presence has improved and can even get better.He moves his feet well on lateral movements and he probably is one if not the best perimeter defenders on the TEAM even better than mobley.MOBELEY gambels alot and doesn't move his feet like he probably can do.Peja's area of improvment is probably his help defense which is nox existent and he also needs to shed the soft label and become more larry birdish with this personality,this alone will keep the predator agressive opponents off balance for peja.

 

[kperica]

Dont flame me for this, but maybe our problem lies in the combination of Brad Miller and Chris Webber. I think they are both great player, but together, they might not be a good pair because they dont really compliment each other's, at least not defensively. Offensively, they're awesome although they both offer the same thing (medium range jumpers, occasional drive, and great passing from the high post.) Defensively, they're both slow and not a blocking presence. It seems to me IF, and thats a big if, we're going to make any change. It should be to change our front court so that we have two starter that are a bit more complimentary to each other, so they can each cover the other's weakness rather than exposing it even more. That means, along with a jumper/passer in the high post, we need a back to the basket player who's strength is interior defense. Who is that player? i have no idea.

Great post. Listen, we can fault each of our players for what they aren't; the kings in particular have a number of players who have amazing strengths and glaring weaknesses (and we all know what they are). The problem is less with each of them, but that the particular combination creates a team that can't play D, can't rebound, and can't execute down the stretch. Now, a lot of people on this board cry foul every time a trade is suggested; I'm as loyal as the next guy, and I love our group of guys. I think I have a problem lots of Kings fans have - I see huge, glaring holes that need to be filled, but I don't want to give up any one to fill them.
Meanwhile, I agree with the assesment above - our frontcourt, despite the huge stats they put up, can be exploited pretty easily.

 

[slugking50]

Sheesh. You know our players cannot play great defense all the time. They cat exert it all like they do in the playoffs in everygame. Wed have players with empty tank by the allstar break. And would be screwed.

 

[Pacboy]

Sheesh. You know our players cannot play great defense all the time. They cat exert it all like they do in the playoffs in everygame. Wed have players with empty tank by the allstar break. And would be screwed.

No, not all the time, but at least more than a few time. The only game where i notice our defensive intensity was the game against the spur that we won.

 

[Kingsgurl]

Interior presence defensively is all mental it's an attitude that comes with protecting the paint.If you look at the 80's boston celtics kevin mchale 6'10 larry Bird 6'9 and robert parish 7'0 were all slow to the foot players who helped the celtics win 3 championships 81,84,86.These dudes had little lateral defensive movement to slide defensively against quicker players that they matched up against often.what they did to make up for this lack of athletic ability was use position help defense intelligent timing and major hustle and desire to force the opposition to do things they didn't want to do.Larry bird slow foot and all was on several defensive 1st team 2nd team all league his early seasons, as was slow lateral shuffling kevin mchale who used his long wing span to intimidate the painted area .The celtics of the 80's made a committment to play defense using will power and desire to WIN at any cost even if they had to crawl to do it.There is no excuse for chris webber,Brad miller and peja to allow the nonsense that they do in the paint.

Chris webber can become a better interior defender if he wills to do so.He showed this against the spurs during the first spurs and kings arco arena game.He was ruffling his shorts and had tim duncan so frustrated Tim tried to be real physical after getting stripped two plays in a row by sealing chris with MAD ANGRY AGRESSION.He was defintely in his head and the papers raved about his defensive play the next day and tim was hot and the next game the REFS played into his cry baby favor by letting him play with no competiton.Chris wasn't allowed to be agressive and tough the next spurs and kings contest.

Peja also showed agression that first arco spurs and kings contest he lit bowen up for 29 pts I believe.If the kings are allowed to defend themselves and they make the effort to be agressive and play tough,they don't need to make any changes they just need to show some desire and get some breaks by the REFS to be able to compete like every one else.

Brad miller can also get more AGRESSIVE in that painted area Brad can move his feet with the best of them when he wants.You see brad dribbling hard to the basket.He does this with the same speed of kevin garnett, just watch how fast KG goes to the hole from free throw line out and then watch Brad go the hole free throw line out.You will see Brad maybe can get to the whole quicker with dribble than KG.That same speed can be used to moving his feet and clogging dribble drives on help defense.You don't need athleticism always to defend the paint and contest shots if you establish good position that's sometimes all you need because alot of the times good position can suprise the opposition into giving you the mistake with out having to have a 45 inch vertcal.

Now with peja his defensive presence has improved and can even get better.He moves his feet well on lateral movements and he probably is one if not the best perimeter defenders on the TEAM even better than mobley.MOBELEY gambels alot and doesn't move his feet like he probably can do.Peja's area of improvment is probably his help defense which is nox existent and he also needs to shed the soft label and become more larry birdish with this personality,this alone will keep the predator agressive opponents off balance for peja.

Good points, Shaka. Although I think all this focus on our interior defense is ignoring the obvious. Our perimeter defense is pathetic. It all STARTS with allowing penetration in the first place.

 

[shaka zulu]

Good points, Shaka. Although I think all this focus on our interior defense is ignoring the obvious. Our perimeter defense is pathetic. It all STARTS with allowing penetration in the first place.

It's a little bit of both when you are talking about TEAM DEFENSE.alot of times Good defenses have anchors that head up the defensive schemes from the center and power forward positions.when you talk about the lakers of 2000,2001,and 2002 that TEAM presented two people that locked up on the opposition defensively from the center position and the guard position,But mainly the center spot with SHAQ being the anchor that allowed kobe to apply presssure and semi pressure he could even be lackadasical and take breaks but SHAQ was right there as a safety valve to intimidate,fly swat the ball or change the direction of the shot attempt.Everyone else from Rick fox to derek fisher etc had more confidence in their personally defense mechanisms to play loose and not really worry about pressure as hard as other TEAMS that didn't have that type of luxury.


The kings don't have that type of luxury with a SHAQ but if the BIG people step up their position defensive and rebounding skills,Which they have the tools and defintely can do,If chris uses that slam dunking energy that he uses for DUNK SHOTS here and there to slide and move his feet which he can and I know he can because I have seen him do it before and that is slide his feet laterally to get in position.The wierd thang about chris is you see him push the ball up the floor like a point guard I mean he does it better than alot of #1 players around the league with shakes and bakes and a little quickness.The question is why he cannot do this on the defensive end to slide his feet,He should be able to use that dribble shake n bake energy that he shows when he wants to get to the basket.He showed this quickness against AMARE from the SUNS,He showed it against theo ratliff and several other High jumping blazer forwards.iT'S NO EXCUSE really other than WEBB is lazy and he has no desire to play on the defensive end of the floor.He can if he chooses to do so but the question is will he.

Brad miller the same if he uses his suprisingly quick feet to get in better help position on defense he and chris together can compensate for their lack of jumping abilty by getting in better position on drives and other plays that come to the basket.what this does is help mike bibby's confidence in his one on one defense and allows him to apply pressure from all energy levels.The utah jazz had similar slow foot non athletic players in their fron court.Karl malone was a strong player but not what you would call a good shot blocker.what he did to negate his lack of shot blocking was get in better position in clogging up the lanes karl along with greg O who is now a saramento king did a wonderful job by playing position defense to alter the oppositions offense.

Rick adleman probably needs to sacrifice some un needed offense sometimes and trust greg O that he can make some plays down the stretch with rebounds,shot blocks and shot changes.he can make a contribution if given the oppurtunity.But yeah like you were saying the perimeter Defense does need to step and take some intiative defensively all they need is will an desire everything else Good will follow.

 

[Kingsgurl]

The fact is, we DON'T have a shaq in the middle. In order to be effective defensively, this team needs to play good help defense, the rotations have to be sharp and EVERYONE needs to do their job. The breakdowns by the guards are causing everyone else to have to work harder, putting MORE pressure on guys who haven't got the lateral quickness to keep up.
If you ask me, the key to our success or failure defensively in the post season, is going to begin with Mike. If he can begin to pressure his man, take responsibility for his assignment, make it his mission to keep his guy out of the lane, everyone else's job will be 10 times easier.

 

[6th]

The fact is, we DON'T have a shaq in the middle. In order to be effective defensively, this team needs to play good help defense, the rotations have to be sharp and EVERYONE needs to do their job. The breakdowns by the guards are causing everyone else to have to work harder, putting MORE pressure on guys who haven't got the lateral quickness to keep up.
If you ask me, the key to our success or failure defensively in the post season, is going to begin with Mike. If he can begin to pressure his man, take responsibility for his assignment, make it his mission to keep his guy out of the lane, everyone else's job will be 10 times easier.

Absolutely!! Best post in this entire thread.

 

[shaka zulu]

The fact is, we DON'T have a shaq in the middle. In order to be effective defensively, this team needs to play good help defense, the rotations have to be sharp and EVERYONE needs to do their job. The breakdowns by the guards are causing everyone else to have to work harder, putting MORE pressure on guys who haven't got the lateral quickness to keep up.
If you ask me, the key to our success or failure defensively in the post season, is going to begin with Mike. If he can begin to pressure his man, take responsibility for his assignment, make it his mission to keep his guy out of the lane, everyone else's job will be 10 times easier.

It works both ways It's easier for the backcourt people to defend when you can look over your shoulders and you know you have help coming from that area and help defense is alot of times bringing your man to one area of the floor shutting him off in that direction.Times with the kings the red sea is parted and it's no help provided and you get guy's coming in and out of the lane without one shot being contested.You must provide some type of intimidation be it shot change or a hard foul and maybe that dude won't think twice about coming in the paint that freely.It doesn't have to be a SHAQ or a major shot blocker you only need to establish position be physical clogg the lane no easy buckets.

Then from the perimeter mike must do a better job at stopping penetration he must bring his man to one weak side or stay in front of him better and like you said this will take pressure off of the interior presence and stop the over use of help D.Because sometimes you can help too much and when you are constantly switching and changing men you are leaving the 3 point shooters open to hit daggers.But basically it takes a TEAM committment interior men need to step up and don't allow easy ones do some knocking down or anything else besides an easy layup.THen the perimeter people need to anticipate movement off the dribble better and make more committment to play better position on tehe defense.

 

[piksi]

If you ask me, the key to our success or failure defensively in the post season, is going to begin with Mike. If he can begin to pressure his man, take responsibility for his assignment, make it his mission to keep his guy out of the lane, everyone else's job will be 10 times easier.

we are screwed

 

[Bricklayer]

There is a sea of differernce between offensive quickness, and defensive quickness. The offensvie player ALWAYS has an advantage, because he is the guy who knows where he is going, and he is the guy who gets to determine what sorts of moves he is goign to make. Defensive quickness is about reaction, and puts a much greater emphasis on actually being quick, as opposed to being skilled. Lots of guys are offensively "quick" without havign any real athletic quickness at all. They just practice and practice and practice certain moves until they make them by second nature while the defensive players have to react to them.

Brad Miller is basically "quick" in one situation -- he's got one move, and if he decides to go to the hoop he can beat many big men. But he's not quick in any other situation. He can't improvise, he doesn't react quickly to the ball. he's "quick" only when he's in control of the situation and doing the one thing he feels comfortable doing. Force him to react, and he's a slow player. And when it comes to shotblocking -- well he combines short arms with lack of vertical leap, and perhaps worse yet, is a slow leaper.

Webb is a much more multifaceted offensive player, but even so, you don't see nearly the number of quick moves from him you once did. That face up game he had where he'd try to pull his man out and take him off the dribble is rarely seen anymore, and rarely successful when it is seen. He is one of the slickest PFs of all time with the ball, but the legs themselves are not nearly so fast. And while he can leap on offense, its again somethng where he has to be in control and have his feet under him just perfectly. He can't just spring after balls at all angles or make adjustments. In fact you still see him down int he paint holding the ball for long periods of time trying to adjust his feet to get them just perfect to jump. He's got great hands to poke away steals, but he can't get off the ground in time to to make a difference and can't change direction rapidly in response to opposing slashers. What he still CAN do is play big men pretty well in the post. And hence his tremendous effort agaisnt Duncan. Tim wasn't going to blow by him, he was going to try to overpower him in the post. And Chris can still defend that very well on nights his legs are under him. But now you run a little dart like Ginobilli into the paint and ask Chris to try to track him or get in front of him, and its just problematic.

What we've been seeing a lot of in recent weeks is our guards/SFs getting beat off the dribble and little guys charging into the paint. Two things happen. Either a) our big guys are too slow to react; or b) our big guys, Webb in particular, DO react to the drive (not always successfully), but then are simply too slow to recover back to their man if the ball is dumped off. They ALMOST have enough quickness to stop the inital drive, but they simply don't have a prayer to react a second time on one play. Only two solutions barring a trade for a major shotblocker, 1) the little guys have to sag off of their opponents, give up the jumper but at least protect the paint; or 2) our little guys have to rotate far far better and come diving back into the paint to take those big men as Webb or Miller react to the drive. Of course that opens up the jumpers as well. But that's kind of it. Our big guys are "short", groundbound, and have slow reactions. There's no good there. Brad is already averaging more blocks for us right now than he ever has in his career, and he's still irrelevant inside on most nights. Webb has shown basically zero flashes of being able to react on penetration -- he can muscle somebody up, but the qucikness is gone. Peja, of course, doesn't use his height at all and is no help at all on help defense.

P.S. BTW, setting aside Bird for a second, who was only one of the 5 or so greatest players ever to pick up a basketball, that Boston frontcourt was LONG. Parrish was 7ft with long arms, and McHale was 6'11" and could probably tie his shoes without bending over. Tag's not a good athlete either, but blocks shots by being big and long. Our frontcourt guys are not. Brad, Darius and Peja are "short" for their size, and Webb is decently long, but only of average height for a PF. Nobody remotely blots out the basket.

 

[shaka zulu]

There is a sea of differernce between offensive quickness, and defensive quickness. The offensvie player ALWAYS has an advantage, because he is the guy who knows where he is going, and he is the guy who gets to determine what sorts of moves he is goign to make. Defensive quickness is about reaction, and puts a much greater emphasis on actually being quick, as opposed to being skilled. Lots of guys are offensively "quick" without havign any real athletic quickness at all. They just practice and practice and practice certain moves until they make them by second nature while the defensive players have to react to them.

Brad Miller is basically "quick" in one situation -- he's got one move, and if he decides to go to the hoop he can beat many big men. But he's not quick in any other situation. He can't improvise, he doesn't react quickly to the ball. he's "quick" only when he's in control of the situation and doing the one thing he feels comfortable doing. Force him to react, and he's a slow player. And when it comes to shotblocking -- well he combines short arms with lack of vertical leap, and perhaps worse yet, is a slow leaper.

Webb is a much more multifaceted offensive player, but even so, you don't see nearly the number of quick moves from him you once did. That face up game he had where he'd try to pull his man out and take him off the dribble is rarely seen anymore, and rarely successful when it is seen. He is one of the slickest PFs of all time with the ball, but the legs themselves are not nearly so fast. And while he can leap on offense, its again somethng where he has to be in control and have his feet under him just perfectly. He can't just spring after balls at all angles or make adjustments. In fact you still see him down int he paint holding the ball for long periods of time trying to adjust his feet to get them just perfect to jump. He's got great hands to poke away steals, but he can't get off the ground in time to to make a difference and can't change direction rapidly in response to opposing slashers. What he still CAN do is play big men pretty well in the post. And hence his tremendous effort agaisnt Duncan. Tim wasn't going to blow by him, he was going to try to overpower him in the post. And Chris can still defend that very well on nights his legs are under him. But now you run a little dart like Ginobilli into the paint and ask Chris to try to track him or get in front of him, and its just problematic.

What we've been seeing a lot of in recent weeks is our guards/SFs getting beat off the dribble and little guys charging into the paint. Two things happen. Either a) our big guys are too slow to react; or b) our big guys, Webb in particular, DO react to the drive (not always successfully), but then are simply too slow to recover back to their man if the ball is dumped off. They ALMOST have enough quickness to stop the inital drive, but they simply don't have a prayer to react a second time on one play. Only two solutions barring a trade for a major shotblocker, 1) the little guys have to sag off of their opponents, give up the jumper but at least protect the paint; or 2) our little guys have to rotate far far better and come diving back into the paint to take those big men as Webb or Miller react to the drive. Of course that opens up the jumpers as well. But that's kind of it. Our big guys are "short", groundbound, and have slow reactions. There's no good there. Brad is already averaging more blocks for us right now than he ever has in his career, and he's still irrelevant inside on most nights. Webb has shown basically zero flashes of being able to react on penetration -- he can muscle somebody up, but the qucikness is gone. Peja, of course, doesn't use his height at all and is no help at all on help defense.

P.S. BTW, setting aside Bird for a second, who was only one of the 5 or so greatest players ever to pick up a basketball, that Boston frontcourt was LONG. Parrish was 7ft with long arms, and McHale was 6'11" and could probably tie his shoes without bending over. Tag's not a good athlete either, but blocks shots by being big and long. Our frontcourt guys are not. Brad, Darius and Peja are "short" for their size, and Webb is decently long, but only of average height for a PF. Nobody remotely blots out the basket.

it's all about what you emphasize in coaching.When yo usay webb can't jump from angles and can only jump when he is in control I don't really agree. there is a drill when you have th basketball in your hands and you stand under the basket and you practice on power jumping from that position with the ball it was extremley harder than with out tehe basketball.Webb has sone reverse dunks DUNKS on other individuals and alot of twited moves in the air.There is no excuse of why he can't use that athletic abilty to jump in one spot when a player drives the ball to the basket.He doesn't have the weight of the ball and he's not up against any opposition that he would have to turn or make a extra body movement adjustment to avoid the conflict.If you can bend your knees and legs to shake n bake then you can also Bend them knees to slide defensively.To me it must not be something that they work on in pratcice because if you can run and jump and dunk with memeory on offense,you should be able to do the same on defense.There must not be pratice enough on muscle memory on the defensive end in practice or through out the players career to get the muscle memory needed to play defense.DEFENSE and REBOUNDING are attitude and desire to not be out worked if you can bring these things it will makeup for the lack of athletic abilty a player may not have.

I watch brad miller sprint from end line to end line to get his butt back defensively.That same sprinting can be used in practice to teach brad to slide defensively to get better position.Brad short arms and all doiesn't need to block shots all he needs to do is clogg the area's of intrusion,keep the offfense off balanced.

Aslo with the offensive player having the advantage you must look at the size of the floor.Defense rules now and it has ruled for the last 10 seasons in the NBA.The reason why it rules is because the size of the players and the size of the floor.There isn't really that much room when you really are out there on that floor.The players are Bigger than ever and faster than ever the offense know in this day don't really have the advantage as they did in the 80's this is why the pistons and spurs and even the lakers were succesful in winning.

When you teach and emphasize defense correctly anyone can be stopped because of how the game is played now and what you can do that you couldn't do in the 80's different.You can pressure on inbounds and full court or take the ball out of kobe or bibby's hand at half court.You can go zone right into man to man defense and back to a zone with out it being illegal.yo ucan run a box in one on the major offensive player of the team.Basically you can run college low scoring defesnes all of them in one in the NBA game.DEFENSE if you look at the SPURS AND last years NBA champs PISTONS has the advantage in this ERA of basketball.iT ALL DEPENDS on what yo uwork on and what means TEH MOST TO YOU AS HEAD COACH.

NOW the comparison of the CELTICS and KINGS.Kevin mchale was 6'10 WEBBER IS LISTED AS 6'10.Kevin mchale's aram migh tbe slightly longet tha webb's but no that much.Webber has more quickness than mchale.Therefor he can move defensively alot faster and should.The difference is webb's unwillingness tobe a defensive presence and mchale's willingness to be one.Also withe robert parish he had longer arms than Brad miller but brad should be quicker to the basketball no excuses.NO EXCUSES

 

[Andriod_KiNg]

Hmm we cant trade Peja no matter how bad he is doing... we will get the short end of the deal because of Peja salary and abilities... when he starts doing good agian i expect you guys to be on his nuts agian....

 

[shaka zulu]

? Basically Brick what your saying is Webb,bibby and brad only have muscle memory to play on offense.

 

[WhyNotUs?]

brick, nice analysis. If what is symptomatic of the Kings were easily diagnosed, I suspect it would have already been corrected. There seems to be a great deal of banter about "who" should do what. As you have so eloquently described (really in several posts) is that what the players are is what they are, not what they should be based on some mythical comparison to former, or even current, NBA players. There seems to be some search going on for the panacea, the majic bullet that will make things "right". The illusion at work here is that the solution is at least as illusive as the problem. It's not one player, one coach, one GM - hell, not even the ref's - it is the sum total. Are the Kings soft? Sure. Is that THE PROBLEM? I dunno, and even if it is, what are we gonna do about it NOW. Do the Kings have absolutely abysmal lapses in defense from time to time. You bet they do. Is that THE PROBLEM? I dunno. (as an aside, if my research is correct - I was astonished to find that the Kings are 22-4 when holding an opponent under 100. Prolly more surprised that in 53 games they have actually accomplished that feat 26 times LOL). So rather than merely saying, the problem is......... or what we need is ............ or so and so sucks ........... let me get my two cents in for a wee beety goal/improvement. Can we see a game without an offensive board on a missed free throw???? No it isn't either the problem or the solution, but as the sage says - every journey begings with a single step.

 

[Bricklayer]

No it doesn't all depend on what you work on -- at LEAST as much depends on personnel.

Pat Riley was a great defensive coach in his latter years. But its not because he sat around and made crappy defenders into great ones. He went out and GOT great defenders. His whole structure was built around great defensive centers who were great defensive centers BEFORE he got them (Ewing/Mourning). Then he went out and imported other top flight defenders, found them in camp, traded for them, traded away weak/middling guys to get ever more defense.

Gregg Popovich is a great defensive coach, but he has NEVER had to coach without great defensive interior people. David Robinson was a defensive monster long before Pop arrived. Tim Duncan only led the NCAA in blocked shots. GREAT defenders, not by practice, but by nature.

Larry Brown preaches defense, but where has he had his greatest success with it? Philadephia, where he rebuilt the team from the ground up for defense defense defense. Imported Theo Ratliff, to guard the paint, already a great shotblocker, then traded for Ditkembe Mutumbo, who had only won three(?) defensive player of the year awards. Then he goes to Detroit and finally wins a championship. And what does he have anchoring the paint? Only Ben Wallace, the defensive player of the year before Brown arrived, and then a trade for another excellent interior defender in Rasheed Wallace.

These coaches didn't make weak interior defenders into championship level defensive players, then either went out and intentionally imported that type of player, or they intentionally took over teams with that type of player already. Not one of those players ever became a great defensive player because of those coaches. They already were great defenders.

You know what Riley would do if he took over the Kings? Make trades. Brad would be gone in about a nanosecond if Riley could find anybody out there. No post game to build the offense around, no shotblocking = goodbye if you're a center in Riley's system. He wouldn't sit around and waste time trying to make Brad into something he wasn't. He'd just go get somebody who already was, just as all of those coaches always have. There's a reason Pop went out and got Rasho instead of Brad two years ago.

 

[shaka zulu]

muscle memory comes from reps of doing something over and over.If chris can juke and shake his man out of his pants and he just recently started to settle for the jump shot.But before this all star thang he was shaking everybody up.I think it's desire to play on both ends and chris webber along with mike bibby only make that committment on OFFENSE.I have seen mike bibby fly swat lebron james and a few other people just recently.I have seen webber shut TIM DUNCAN down.They can play better INDIVIDUAL AND TEAM DEFENSE.If they will to do so.The great ones apply whatever athleticism that they have to both ends of the floor.

 

[shaka zulu]

No it doesn't all depend on what you work on -- at LEAST as much depends on personnel.

Pat Riley was a great defensive coach in his latter years. But its not because he sat around and made crappy defenders into great ones. He went out and GOT great defenders. His whole structure was built around great defensive centers who were great defensive centers BEFORE he got them (Ewing/Mourning). Then he went out and imported other top flight defenders, found them in camp, traded for them, traded away weak/middling guys to get ever more defense.

Gregg Popovich is a great defensive coach, but he has NEVER had to coach without great defensive interior people. David Robinson was a defensive monster long before Pop arrived. Tim Duncan only led the NCAA in blocked shots. GREAT defenders, not by practice, but by nature.

Larry Brown preaches defense, but where has he had his greatest success with it? Philadephia, where he rebuilt the team from the ground up for defense defense defense. Imported Theo Ratliff, to guard the paint, already a great shotblocker, then traded for Ditkembe Mutumbo, who had only won three(?) defensive player of the year awards. Then he goes to Detroit and finally wins a championship. And what does he have anchoring the paint? Only Ben Wallace, the defensive player of the year before Brown arrived, and then a trade for another excellent interior defender in Rasheed Wallace.

These coaches didn't make weak interior defenders into championship level defensive players, then either went out and intentionally imported that type of player, or they intentionally took over teams with that type of player already. Not one of those players ever became a great defensive player because of those coaches. They already were great defenders.

You know what Riley would do if he took over the Kings? Make trades. Brad would be gone in about a nanosecond if Riley could find anybody out there. No post game to build the offense around, no shotblocking = goodbye if you're a center in Riley's system. He wouldn't sit around and waste time trying to make Brad into something he wasn't. He'd just go get somebody who already was, just as all of those coaches always have. There's a reason Pop went out and got Rasho instead of Brad two years ago.

some good points but you casn make a deefender out of a bad one.I'll get back with what I mean

 

[WhyNotUs?]

He (webber) doesn't have the weight of the ball and he's not up against any opposition
didn't know the weight of the ball had increased from when I last played.

When you teach and emphasize defense correctly anyone can be stopped because of how the game is played now and what you can do that you couldn't do in the 80's different.You can pressure on inbounds and full court or take the ball out of kobe or bibby's hand at half court.QUOTE]
Been watching NBA for some forty years now, I never recall a time when the press was illegal. Indeed, Walt "Clyde" Frazier was one of the great pickpockets when the floor presumably was "larger" due to the "smaller" players.

 

[shaka zulu]

He (webber) doesn't have the weight of the ball and he's not up against any opposition
didn't know the weight of the ball had increased from when I last played.

When you teach and emphasize defense correctly anyone can be stopped because of how the game is played now and what you can do that you couldn't do in the 80's different.You can pressure on inbounds and full court or take the ball out of kobe or bibby's hand at half court.QUOTE]
Been watching NBA for some forty years now, I never recall a time when the press was illegal. Indeed, Walt "Clyde" Frazier was one of the great pickpockets when the floor presumably was "larger" due to the "smaller" players.

never said full court press was illegal but not too many teams utilized it's means.It's kind of like an unspoken thing with full court pressure 48 minutes and I don't think it has anything to do with athleticism or anything but in the 80's you didn't see everyone pick up full court not just the point guard but everyone.What walt frazier did was apply pressure but yo udidn't see bill bradley and everyone else picking up with him.But in today's game you see tim duncan to tony parker picking up full court as soon as a made basket.

 

[shaka zulu]

He (webber) doesn't have the weight of the ball and he's not up against any opposition
didn't know the weight of the ball had increased from when I last played.

When you teach and emphasize defense correctly anyone can be stopped because of how the game is played now and what you can do that you couldn't do in the 80's different.You can pressure on inbounds and full court or take the ball out of kobe or bibby's hand at half court.QUOTE]
Been watching NBA for some forty years now, I never recall a time when the press was illegal. Indeed, Walt "Clyde" Frazier was one of the great pickpockets when the floor presumably was "larger" due to the "smaller" players.

what I mean by weight of the basketball what I was saying was if yo ucan vertically leap change directions in the air offensively with the weight of teh basketball in your hands contort your body in mid air make a layup or dunk shot all in one motion this is saying that this player has athleticism.This same athletic abilty should be able to be transfered to shot blocking and contensting shots.There should be no execuses if your standing under the basket with no one around you and someone comes your way that you can't jump freely standing alone with no inhibitations to contest a shot.It's all what you apply your abilties to do.

 

[swisshh]

It seems that on ESPN News Rick Bucher reported that the Lakers offered Lamar Odom for Peja straight up, but the Kings rejected the deal.

 

[SaCKiNgS24]

lamar, caron and grant for peja and he got me listening!

 

[AriesMar27]

if odom were still with miami.... i'd do it.... but he's a laker so i wouldnt.... even if he were still a clipper i would do it without hesitation

 

[G_M]

It seems that on ESPN News Rick Bucher reported that the Lakers offered Lamar Odom for Peja straight up, but the Kings rejected the deal.

Salaries don't match. But, I'd have to think about that one. Again, hard to say what Peja is going to show up after the break. I would DEFINETLY do it for this years Peja. But, wouldn't do it for last years Peja.

 

[swisshh]

Yeah, salaries don't work but ESPN doesn't bother with fact checking. =D

 

[6th]

Yeah, salaries don't work but ESPN doesn't bother with fact checking. =D

Facts? Facts? Don't weigh us down by facts.

 

[Bricklayer]

It seems that on ESPN News Rick Bucher reported that the Lakers offered Lamar Odom for Peja straight up, but the Kings rejected the deal.

wow...that's interesting.

 

[SacTownKid]

It seems that on ESPN News Rick Bucher reported that the Lakers offered Lamar Odom for Peja straight up, but the Kings rejected the deal.

IF the Kings were going to trade Peja, would they do it to the West. Not only that but in the same division!! No way. Don't forget ladies and gentlemen one good run by the Lakers and we could be out of the playoffs. Houston and Memphis are breathing down our necks already.

 

[Bricklayer]

IF the Kings were going to trade Peja, would they do it to the West. Not only that but in the same division!! No way. Don't forget ladies and gentlemen one good run by the Lakers and we could be out of the playoffs. Houston and Memphis are breathing down our necks already.

Um...I think the idea of any trade is it would make US better too. We're still considerably better than the Lakers with such a swap. Similar talent levels in different players. And its still our 5 guys against their 3 or so.