Pat Pat

HereWeBoogie

Hall of Famer
so after seeing more and more minutes from Patterson. i'd really like to see him starting over JT when DeMarcus returns. unlike JT, he actually understands how to defend the pic n roll, as well as run a pic n roll. his mid range game is far better than JT, and his 3pt shooting is a skill JT does not even possess. ive also been really happy with his ability to keep loose balls alive, and he has been rebounding better than i think anyone expected.

look how well he played in his starting roll last night (11pts, 5reb in the first quarter before getting into foul trouble, and then getting the patented Keith Smart icing the rest of the half)

plus i think JT is a solid "first big off the bench" guy and he has played well off the bench in the past.




what do you guys think about this?
 
He did a great job last night shooting the lights out and pulling his defender out of the paint. The Kings need better spacing and PPat provided that last night. It really gave the wings room to operate.

KB
 
i feel like im alone here on this one... but i had no problem with the trade... i think patterson is greatter than robinson... i think there both basically role players. i have a really really hard time picturing Robinson becoming a All-Star or KEY starter in this league. he will probably end up being a more polished hustle guy at one point. but patterson is a proven, UNDERCONTROL player. who can be counted on to be consistent. i think he complements this team of non shooters perfectly while not being quite as soft as spencer hawes.
 
i feel like im alone here on this one... but i had no problem with the trade... i think patterson is greatter than robinson... i think there both basically role players. i have a really really hard time picturing Robinson becoming a All-Star or KEY starter in this league. he will probably end up being a more polished hustle guy at one point. but patterson is a proven, UNDERCONTROL player. who can be counted on to be consistent. i think he complements this team of non shooters perfectly while not being quite as soft as spencer hawes.

I agree. I actually liked the trade. Gasp. In my opinion, lots of people get too caught up on 'when a player was drafted'. A player can either play at a high level in this league, or they can't. Robinson was exposed as a project player at best.

Also what nobody else seems to have read, according to Aleine Voison of the Sac Bee, Robinson has a 'brooding' nature, and often gloated to teammates about how high of a draft pick he was.
 
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so after seeing more and more minutes from Patterson. i'd really like to see him starting over JT when DeMarcus returns. unlike JT, he actually understands how to defend the pic n roll, as well as run a pic n roll. his mid range game is far better than JT, and his 3pt shooting is a skill JT does not even possess. ive also been really happy with his ability to keep loose balls alive, and he has been rebounding better than i think anyone expected.

I don't think it matters which one of them starts; they bring different skill sets and the both ought to be getting minutes. I disagree that PPat has a better midrange game. JT has probably the best mid-range game on the team this year. JTs gonna get you more boards, PPat can stretch the floor bettter. The jury is still out on overall defensive impact, but I will agree that PPat has shown some strength on position defense so far.
 
Well, I've always envisioned JT as a great big off the bench. He's versatile and can play either Center of PF, and you could give the bulk of the minutes to Cousins, Patterson, and JT, and use Hayes in case of need. However, at this late date in the season, I'm reluctant to make that switch, even though it may improve the team short term. There aren't that many games left in the season, and I just don't think its appropiate to demote JT to the bench at this late date. However, next season is a different story. If you want to experiment this season, just sub out JT a little earlier in the 1st quarter, and still get him his minutes throughout the game. But keep starting him.

As for the trade. In the short term, we got the better of the deal. Give it 2 or 3 years, and maybe Houston got the better deal. But the old saying, a bird in hand is better than two in the bush, is very true!
 
Also what nobody else seems to have read, according to Aleine Voison of the Sac Bee, Robinson has a 'brooding' nature, and often gloated to teammates about how high of a draft pick he was.[/QUOTE]



I think this is very telling as too who TRob is! Not saying though guys with a massive ego dont become NBA superstars....
He seemed like such a nice guy when we drafted him and then during the Detroit game is was like WTF?!


Not saying hes a jerk though! However, watching him play was baffling at times and stuff i would obviously credit to being a rookie lol Time will tell i guess!

I wish we could get more info on what type of guy TRob is xD

PPat balances our team more imho and though i was angry at the trade at first im over it now...PPat is more NBA ready for a team that needs to start showing improvement!
 
After watching the game against the Lakers, does anyone thing TRob would have been more valuable? Probably the final determination will come in a few years but I have no regrets about that trade. We at least got a little defense although not spectacular, in Douglas and Aldrich. That's moving in the right direction.

Bravo P Pat, P squared, PP, Pat Pat or whatever.
 
I've always liked Jason Thompson, but the dude is so clumsy sometimes. He killed all our momentum on that fast break in the 4th quarter when it was a 3 on 1 and he fumbled the ball leading to a turnover. Patrick Patterson would be better for this team, since he can stretch the floor and leave the middle open for Demarcus and Tyreke to operate.
 
I've always liked Ppat as a player and really liked the strides he's made the last few years with Houston. So that was never an issue. What irked me was our organization was willing to give up on a talented young player after 50 games. The biggest change I'm looking forward to with new ownership is hopefully more importance being placed on developing our young talent. Who knows, Trob might flame out still and we might look like a genious organization for getting a solid return for a future bust. But, we never gave him that opportunity to grow as a player.
 
Do you guys think Pat could start at SF? I mean, he defends great, he has the shot of an SG, he can get rebounds, he has Pick'n Roll skill and best of all, he passes efficiently.
 
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I haven't seen enough of him to see how he would consistently do against smaller players, but a starting lineup of:

Thomas
Evans
Patterson
Thompson
Cousins

could be interesting. I mean, we've done everything else, right? Then again, if he's never played it, it's probably not worth investigating.
 
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I haven't seen enough of him to see how he would consistently do against smaller players, but a starting lineup of:

Thomas
Evans
Patterson
Thompson
Cousins

could be interesting. I mean, we've done everything else, right? Then again, if he's never played it, it's probably not worth investigating.

He most likely has played it, seeing as he's listed as a PF/SF.
 
I've always liked Jason Thompson, but the dude is so clumsy sometimes. He killed all our momentum on that fast break in the 4th quarter when it was a 3 on 1 and he fumbled the ball leading to a turnover. Patrick Patterson would be better for this team, since he can stretch the floor and leave the middle open for Demarcus and Tyreke to operate.

indeed. regardless, i am tempted to believe it's a better idea to choose patterson over thompson in the event of retaining only one of them, even if we were to consider thompson and patterson a near-wash, talent-wise. when francisco garcia was traded, JT became the longest-tenured king on the roster, and the kings have only disappointed in that span. it may be best to purge the bad vibes of the last five years by using thompson's modest value around the league as a utility big as leverage to bring back... well, whatever complementary piece(s) the kings are in need of when that moment arrives. patterson is certainly a servicable big who can hold down JT's role, all the better if he's able to do so from the bench because the kings have managed to acquire a worthy defensive presence at PF to start alongside cousins...
 
indeed. regardless, i am tempted to believe it's a better idea to choose patterson over thompson in the event of retaining only one of them, even if we were to consider thompson and patterson a near-wash, talent-wise. when francisco garcia was traded, JT became the longest-tenured king on the roster, and the kings have only disappointed in that span. it may be best to purge the bad vibes of the last five years by using thompson's modest value around the league as a utility big as leverage to bring back... well, whatever complementary piece(s) the kings are in need of when that moment arrives. patterson is certainly a servicable big who can hold down JT's role, all the better if he's able to do so from the bench because the kings have managed to acquire a worthy defensive presence at PF to start alongside cousins...

Perhaps we could obtain Noel Nerlens from the draft and start Pat at the 3?
 
I haven't seen enough of him to see how he would consistently do against smaller players, but a starting lineup of:

Thomas
Evans
Patterson
Thompson
Cousins

could be interesting. I mean, we've done everything else, right? Then again, if he's never played it, it's probably not worth investigating.

Too many scorers.
 
Too many scorers.

Not really. Patterson can score, yes, but he isn't ball dominant and he's effective off-ball as well. If there's anyone in that lineup I'd get rid of, it's Thomas. We should trade him for the 15th pick from the Utah Jazz and draft Michael Carter-Williams. He's a great athlete and leads the NCAA in assisting. He has a middle-range turnover problem, but that can be rectified in our new organization. And if he turns out to be a bust, well, there's always Nate Wolters in round 2. If we can't get him with our pick, then we trade Jimmer for him (Hey, it's just a second rounder.)
 
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Three problems usually attach to "stretch 4's".

1) they are perimeter pansies. No guts. No inside play. They practically squeal at the first sign of physical contact, and faint at a bruise. Hence they run away and hide out where the big meanies won't hurt them.

2) for many of the same reasons, as well as their position on the floor, they are useless as rebounders, which is a core PF trait. Your center is stuck doing all the work inside on the boards, and even if he is a great rebounder, you as a team may suck because he has no wingman.

3) for many of the same reasons, many stretch 4s are poor defenisve players, especially against physical power players.


So now let's look at "Pat Pat":
1) his background is not born and bred tutu wearing weenie. Its as a fairly tough college PF. And he actually has some post game, at least at the same level as a JT. He's just too small and weak to use it consistently. But thing is, we have Cousins. So the normal problem of your team getting too perimeter oriented with a stretch 4 is not so much for us. You can really only play one post player inside at a time anyway (I still remember Dale Brown's attempt to run a double low post system with Stanley Roberts on one block, and Shaquille O'Neal on the other -- it was great fun, but also highly messy). And with the right matchup, Patterson is not so much of a weenie he doesn't know how to post a guy up.

2) rebounding. a Huge HUGE issue for a terrible boarding team like ourselves. We can't afford to get any worse, indeed need to get better. But here's some intersting numbers. First, Pat Pat's per36 rebounding numbers:
Yr 1: 8.3
Yr 2: 6.9
Yr 3: Hou: 6.5
Yr 3: Sac: 7.9

And then JT's rebs/36:
Yr 1: 9.5
Yr 2: 9.7
Yr 3: 9.4
Yr 4: 9.6
Yr 5: 8.5

what you get there is this: during Patterson's rookie year he was on the level of barely acceptable, but then fell off the last 2 to being simply not a starter level. Meanwhile, Jason was very consistent as a good but not great rebounder in his first 4 years, but this year he has fallen off badly, and since coming over Patterson has improved enough that he is rebounding in the same general range as JT this year. Now neither guy is rebounding well enough to get us out of the rebounding doldrums, but at least iin deciding between the 2, Patterson has been better than normal, and JT worse, and now the gap is much smaller that it was last year when it would have almost decided the question itself. No idea if that will last, but its critical.

3) defense. I've seen Patterson get bounced in there by power, but aside from that he's felt like he generally knows what he's doing, and his block numbers per minute (a poor proxy in this case, but it is what it is) have bounced back a little like his rebounding has thus far with us. It should be noted that most Houston fans will tell you he was a lousy defender for them there, so it might just be a case of another team's lousy defender lookng like gold to us because they don't know what lousy defenders really are on the level we do.
 
I've been pleased by what I've seen of Patterson so far, as I was truly expecting virtually nothing. Of course, as has been pointed out, we've been fooled before by the performance of newly acquired players. If he's around next year, it might be interesting.
 
P
Three problems usually attach to "stretch 4's".

1) they are perimeter pansies. No guts. No inside play. They practically squeal at the first sign of physical contact, and faint at a bruise. Hence they run away and hide out where the big meanies won't hurt them.

2) for many of the same reasons, as well as their position on the floor, they are useless as rebounders, which is a core PF trait. Your center is stuck doing all the work inside on the boards, and even if he is a great rebounder, you as a team may suck because he has no wingman.

3) for many of the same reasons, many stretch 4s are poor defenisve players, especially against physical power players.


So now let's look at "Pat Pat":
1) his background is not born and bred tutu wearing weenie. Its as a fairly tough college PF. And he actually has some post game, at least at the same level as a JT. He's just too small and weak to use it consistently. But thing is, we have Cousins. So the normal problem of your team getting too perimeter oriented with a stretch 4 is not so much for us. You can really only play one post player inside at a time anyway (I still remember Dale Brown's attempt to run a double low post system with Stanley Roberts on one block, and Shaquille O'Neal on the other -- it was great fun, but also highly messy). And with the right matchup, Patterson is not so much of a weenie he doesn't know how to post a guy up.

2) rebounding. a Huge HUGE issue for a terrible boarding team like ourselves. We can't afford to get any worse, indeed need to get better. But here's some intersting numbers. First, Pat Pat's per36 rebounding numbers:
Yr 1: 8.3
Yr 2: 6.9
Yr 3: Hou: 6.5
Yr 3: Sac: 7.9

And then JT's rebs/36:
Yr 1: 9.5
Yr 2: 9.7
Yr 3: 9.4
Yr 4: 9.6
Yr 5: 8.5

what you get there is this: during Patterson's rookie year he was on the level of barely acceptable, but then fell off the last 2 to being simply not a starter level. Meanwhile, Jason was very consistent as a good but not great rebounder in his first 4 years, but this year he has fallen off badly, and since coming over Patterson has improved enough that he is rebounding in the same general range as JT this year. Now neither guy is rebounding well enough to get us out of the rebounding doldrums, but at least iin deciding between the 2, Patterson has been better than normal, and JT worse, and now the gap is much smaller that it was last year when it would have almost decided the question itself. No idea if that will last, but its critical.

3) defense. I've seen Patterson get bounced in there by power, but aside from that he's felt like he generally knows what he's doing, and his block numbers per minute (a poor proxy in this case, but it is what it is) have bounced back a little like his rebounding has thus far with us. It should be noted that most Houston fans will tell you he was a lousy defender for them there, so it might just be a case of another team's lousy defender lookng like gold to us because they don't know what lousy defenders really are on the level we do.

I think it's also important to note that Pat does a decent job of boxing his man out. The rebound numbers may not show him being an even decent rebounder, but he certainly plays a bigger part in rebounding than his numbers show
 
Definitely need to look at starting him with Cousins. Anyone with a brain knew coming into this year having a stretch 4 made a ton of sense, now they have one, use him. JT is a production player and when he's not getting touches or involved in the offense, or if he's getting boxed out, he's just not doing a whole lot for you. I'd like to see him come off the bench and get some touches in a unit with Thornton, Douglas, and Hayes.
 
I've been pleased by what I've seen of Patterson so far, as I was truly expecting virtually nothing. Of course, as has been pointed out, we've been fooled before by the performance of newly acquired players. If he's around next year, it might be interesting.

The interesting part of this trade is that both Patterson and Aldrich were once pretty high, if not top 5 lotto picks at one point. Their problem was that they stayed too long in school. The good thing for the Kings is that they are both more solidified in their abilities as a result.
 
I just saw this quote from Patterson:

"If the ball is stuck on one side just try to set a flare for another teammate, try to cut, dive, even throw the ball into the post and try to move off of that post up," Patterson said. "Even just running over to the side of the person dribbling on the side to make him come off a ball screen and you'll have some action. There's a number of things we can do but just didn't."

Read rest here...

It's amazing how he gets it and yet our head coach doesn't have a freaking clue.
 
I just saw this quote from Patterson:

"If the ball is stuck on one side just try to set a flare for another teammate, try to cut, dive, even throw the ball into the post and try to move off of that post up," Patterson said. "Even just running over to the side of the person dribbling on the side to make him come off a ball screen and you'll have some action. There's a number of things we can do but just didn't."

Read rest here...

It's amazing how he gets it and yet our head coach doesn't have a freaking clue.

Ppat's b-ball IQ is my favorite part about him. The great thing is he can still develop his game further at only 23 years old, but just watching him play the last few weeks has given me a real appreciation for his game. He's always in the right place on defense. He's never forcing bad shots and only shooting when he has a great look. He might be the only guy on the team who understands proper defensive rotations on the PnR.

He'll have his limitations certainly, but until the mythical defensive PF presence comes along, I have no problem seeing Ppat starting for the team. We need his Bball IQ to rub off on our guys
 
I just saw this quote from Patterson:

"If the ball is stuck on one side just try to set a flare for another teammate, try to cut, dive, even throw the ball into the post and try to move off of that post up," Patterson said. "Even just running over to the side of the person dribbling on the side to make him come off a ball screen and you'll have some action. There's a number of things we can do but just didn't."

Read rest here...

It's amazing how he gets it and yet our head coach doesn't have a freaking clue.

It's also amazing how nobody on our team has a freaking clue other than Chuck Hayes, Cole Aldrich and Patterson. I also saw Tyreke attempting to set some screens for IT in the Lakers game, but let's just say his quality of screens set left much to be desired. Still, A for effort for the only non-big on the entire team who tries to set screens. JT and Cuz can't for the life of them imagine going out to set a screen for a guy when he's in trouble. They only ever do it as part of the planned offense, never to help bail someone out.
 
I just saw this quote from Patterson:

"If the ball is stuck on one side just try to set a flare for another teammate, try to cut, dive, even throw the ball into the post and try to move off of that post up," Patterson said. "Even just running over to the side of the person dribbling on the side to make him come off a ball screen and you'll have some action. There's a number of things we can do but just didn't."

Read rest here...

It's amazing how he gets it and yet our head coach doesn't have a freaking clue.

And I thought I was crazy for seeing flare-screens in a Kingsgame! So it did happen! I thought Patterson was great in the last couple of games, but I don't want to get too opportunistic and say that he should be starting. Keep the rotation as it is for the remainder of the season with Chuck, Pat and MT coming off the bench.
 
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