#pace #jazzband = Karl

Chubbs said:
And prince, bud, stop implying that I am racist. It's really starting to pee me right off. Stop it.
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John Galt said:
I think it is out of line for you to suggest that people don't trust Vivek or believe his spin machine because of his looks or an inherent bias against a "foreign-looking" guy. That's just an invention of yours - nobody has said anything like that - and it is a pretty nasty thing to say about the rest of the people on the board.
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I did not mean anything about race, but I apologize to the whole board if that sounded like racism and offended anyone. I was actually about to type alien-looking. But I thought it was more denigrating very much the same way as using gerbil to refer to PDA.:p

And again, I do not have any connection with the FO. They don't even know I exist. I even thought my source was adding BS information to add drama at times and this is why I did not share those information in advance. But the infos I got were always confirmed later by shocking reports weeks or even months later on. That made me so excited to share those info in this board. But if you think it does not help, then I'll quit on citing my source on my postings.

Also, I am not invested to the Vivek/PDA family. I don't even know those guys for me to care. I am not defending their agenda. There are no reasons for me to do so. Like some of you, I was skeptical on how this ownership/FO will do at the very first time they took over. But I have to admit I felt the need to defend them because I kind of know what had transpired. And they seem to be telling the truth. It is no more than playing as a good samaritan when I seem to defend them.
 
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Not sure if this deserves its own thread so I'll drop it here but Howard Beck claims Karl would love to acquire Ty Lawson and that Karl would be willing to move Cuz.

George Karl's first power move as Sacramento Kings coach was to trade for Andre Miller, a trusted old hand from his Denver days. Expect more of the same this summer. Sources say Karl would love to acquire Ty Lawson—if the rebuilding Nuggets were to make him available—or any other members of his last Nuggets team, which won 57 games in 2012-13. Karl wants players who move the ball and push the tempo, and that could mean wild upheaval on the Kings roster. Even DeMarcus Cousins, their franchise center, is not untouchable, according to a source with insight into Karl's thinking. "At the trade deadline, everyone was available," the person said. Including Cousins? "Every single person (on the Kings roster) was available." Although Karl does not hold a front office title, "he definitely has control" of future personnel decisions, the source said.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...talent-sorting-fact-fiction-in-nba-stats-wave
 
Hopefully BS.

I wouldn't mind Ty, but trading Cousins would be a mistake...

.... unless it's for Davis, who is probably more of what Karl wants in a big, and the talent drop off is debatable. I'd still rather build around Cuz.

We'll see how this starts to play out over the summer.
 
gunks said:
Hopefully BS.

I wouldn't mind Ty, but trading Cousins would be a mistake...

.... unless it's for Davis, who is probably more of what Karl wants in a big, and the talent drop off is debatable. I'd still rather build around Cuz.

We'll see how this starts to play out over the summer.
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How Karl felt about Cuz before he coached him and at the end of the season may be two different things.

Also, I'm sure Karl doesn't mind this being out there. Karl is going to be the leader of this team and in order for that to happen, the players need to know that they go before he goes. His way or the highway so to speak. But I doubt Karl wants to trade Cuz.
 
Livinthedream said:
How Karl felt about Cuz before he coached him and at the end of the season may be two different things.

Also, I'm sure Karl doesn't mind this being out there. Karl is going to be the leader of this team and in order for that to happen, the players need to know that they go before he goes. His way or the highway so to speak. But I doubt Karl wants to trade Cuz.
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Be quite the final legacy and finish off any of his "want to win a title" talk. Denver was B.S., never remotely close. Denver 3.0 without the altitude = Karl going the way of Bill Fitch or Lenny Wilkens or Rick Adelman, old ball coach staying at the party one stop too long.

However if I were one of Cuz's people I would laugh at the old man, and say "do it gramps", as there are about 28 spots where my guy would have at least as good a chance of achieving his potential. Being traded from the Kings is not a threat, its a reward.
 
Well, this FO's track record about inside sources leaking lies that fit their agenda is staggeringly bad, considering how short of time they've been at the helm:

I wouldn't trust anything that used the phrase "according to a source with insight into Karl's thinking", especially since this report came stapled at the end of an entire in-depth article about Analytics and interviewing Dean Oliver himself.
The entire article reads as a insecure defense of stats nerds who've never played the game (their phrasing!), which is basically a personal defense of our insecure PDA, and then "sources say Karl would trade Demarcus".

Yeah, sure - just like Malone didn't want to extend Demarcus or trade for Rudy Gay (who this FO incessantly trumpets as their greatest achievement (other than the new arena coming in 2016!).
This just screams of more slimy FO leaks to try to control the narrative and cloud the waters, allowing them more freedom to act in the future and not take the blame.
 
Chubbs said:
If true about looking to trade Boogie, this is all going downhill quickly.

Feels like more crowdsourcing. Be careful what you say folks.
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I don't think our Front Office or anyone else connected with the Kings had anything to do with this crap on toast. "...according to a source with insight into Karl's thinking..." just might be the worst source cite I've ever seen. There is only one reason this was put out there ... Boston fans are still trying to figure out a way they can get DMC to come to the Celtics.
 
The only team with enough assets to make it happen is the 76ers:

"Hi, we would like Cousins. Which first round pick would you like?"


"All of them."

If the FO is floating the idea to get fan perspective, I've got a few words for them, but before I respond, uh, hey mods, how many bad deletes does a guy get before he is launched?
 
VF21 said:
I don't think our Front Office or anyone else connected with the Kings had anything to do with this crap on toast. "...according to a source with insight into Karl's thinking..." just might be the worst source cite I've ever seen. There is only one reason this was put out there ... Boston fans are still trying to figure out a way they can get DMC to come to the Celtics.
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indeed! i was thinking the same. this source isn't quoted as any kind of confidant of karl's or any kind of representative of the kings, it's a source that's quoted as claiming to know what george karl is thinking. hell, you might as well cite Miss Cleo...
 
also, george karl is 63 years old, he's a two-time cancer survivor, and he's an attention-seeker. he wants to make noise in what will likely be the final coaching stint of his career, and he's no doubt got his sights set on moving further up the all-time win list, as well. the best chance of winning in the west is with one or more superstars, and, last time i checked, it's extremely uncommon for teams to swap superstar-level talents. even if you trade demarcus cousins at peak-value, you'll never get one player or any collection of players who will be able to replicate his impact on both sides of the ball. demarcus is karl's best chance to finish off his career on a high note...

that said, i can't imagine the kings would seriously entertain trading cousins unless he demanded to be traded. given big cuz's unflinching (and irrational) loyalty to this team, i don't envision a trade demand coming unless the kings end up with a sub-.500 record once again at the end of next season. in the meantime, if anybody associated with the team is actually promoting the narrative that nobody on the roster is untouchable--including demarcus... well, that's just a disaster waiting to happen...
 
Howard Beck isn't some chump. We've also got an organization with arguably the loosest lips in basketball who leak info at seemingly every opportunity.

I don't put much stock in this, but I also don't completely toss it aside based on common wisdom/belief, as this regime has proven common wisdom/belief isn't part of their thought process. I doubt Karl would be in favor of trading Cuz in any capacity, however completely believe some of the nutjobs in our FO are crazy enough to leak crap like this for whatever the reason.

My first thought given the division in our FO is this is the first leak from the anti-Karl faction attempting to stir **** up. That's the issue I see, not Karl vs Cuz or Boston.
 
Spike said:
The only team with enough assets to make it happen is the 76ers:
"Hi, we would like Cousins. Which first round pick would you like?"
"All of them."
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This is a misperception. Philly only owns three first-round draft picks total on top of their own over the next seven years. Boston owns at least five and possibly six, depending on whether Minnesota finishes out of the top-13 next year. Philly just owns like every other second-round pick until the end of time, not that they'll be able to do anything with them.
 
Hey Kings - if you're crowdsourcing how we would react to trading Cousins... my answer is "Pace you". Yep, RITP. You'd better not!

But, that said - this is a non-story. Of course DMC would be available at the trade deadline. For KD, for Lebron, or for a package including M Gasol. So to say "every player on the roster was available at the trade deadline" is to say nothing really.

I actually don't see how any player in the NBA except Lebron James would be truly "un-tradeable". It means nothing.
 
Chubbs said:
Hold up.

You've repeated numerous times the unconfirmed report that Malone didn't want to re sign Cousins or Rudy. At one point, it was your primary excuse for firing Malone.

Now, for Ranadive contradicting himself, since you want to take him at his word.

From ESPN, before he had his story down:



He says he never suggested 5 on 4, then one sentence later describes suggesting 5 on 4. He refutes the to the coach part.

In your quotes, vivek says "I know a lot of people talk about the 5-on-4 and so on. So that was not something that I ever proposed to anyone."

Uh, but also in his own words, he did propose/suggest 5-on-4. In my world, that's a lie. It's at minimum a bending of the truth.

It makes everything else hard to believe. For me anyway.

That's my concern with vivek, his owns words not adding up completely, not where he is from or what he looks like.
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My interpretation of that is this: what he meant to say was "I was not telling the coach to play 4 on 5. I asked the question once upon a time (to other people, maybe), but I never told our coach to do it."
 
John Galt said:
or for a package including M Gasol.
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As long as PDA and Vivek are crowdsourcing, I would just like to mention if they ever pondered trading Boogie for a 30yr old overrated second tier center I would resign from my job, move to Syria, join ISIS, learn bombmaking techniques, and then come back and blow their ****ing houses up. :p
 
Bricklayer said:
As long as PDA and Vivek are crowdsourcing, I would just like to mention if they ever pondered trading Boogie for a 30yr old overrated second tier center I would resign from my job, move to Syria, join ISIS, learn bombmaking techniques, and then come back and blow their ****ing houses up. :p
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Don't disagree... its why I said 'package including'.... but - how many tiers of Centers are there if Gasol is in the second one?
 
rainmaker said:
Not sure if this deserves its own thread so I'll drop it here but Howard Beck claims Karl would love to acquire Ty Lawson and that Karl would be willing to move Cuz.

George Karl's first power move as Sacramento Kings coach was to trade for Andre Miller, a trusted old hand from his Denver days. Expect more of the same this summer. Sources say Karl would love to acquire Ty Lawson—if the rebuilding Nuggets were to make him available—or any other members of his last Nuggets team, which won 57 games in 2012-13. Karl wants players who move the ball and push the tempo, and that could mean wild upheaval on the Kings roster. Even DeMarcus Cousins, their franchise center, is not untouchable, according to a source with insight into Karl's thinking. "At the trade deadline, everyone was available," the person said. Including Cousins? "Every single person (on the Kings roster) was available." Although Karl does not hold a front office title, "he definitely has control" of future personnel decisions, the source said.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...talent-sorting-fact-fiction-in-nba-stats-wave
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I'll just say that there is a large, LARGE gap between saying "no one on the team is/was untouchable" and saying "George Karl wants to trade DeMarcus Cousins."
 
John Galt said:
Don't disagree... its why I said 'package including'.... but - how many tiers of Centers are there if Gasol is in the second one?
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Just a few important ones, namely "franchise players/HOFs" (Cousins) and "18 and 8 with good defense stars" (Gasol).
 
John Galt said:
Hey Kings - if you're crowdsourcing how we would react to trading Cousins... my answer is "Pace you". Yep, RITP. You'd better not!

But, that said - this is a non-story. Of course DMC would be available at the trade deadline. For KD, for Lebron, or for a package including M Gasol. So to say "every player on the roster was available at the trade deadline" is to say nothing really.

I actually don't see how any player in the NBA except Lebron James would be truly "un-tradeable". It means nothing.
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I actually wouldn't trade Cousins for anyone, including Lebron. Lebron has 4-5 years of prime left, max, and then it'll be a quick drop off. Cousins has 10, and he'll still be quite useful after that, Duncan style.

I think sometimes I have a much higher opinion of Cousins than even those around here who love him. I truly believe we have one of the top 20 players, if not top 10, of all time unfolding before our eyes. He's done everything so far with some of the worst coaches to ever lead a team, save Malone of course. Almost no leadership to guide him. Now, finally, he has Karl. He was beginning to blow up under Malone.

Cousins will win at least one MVP award during his career, He'll be the best player in the game in three years. Absolutely dominant. People compare him to Shaq -- sure. But Shaq couldn't shoot outside of ten feet, and couldn't hit free throws.

Cousins is still just scratching the surface of his potential. It's insane.
 
Spike said:
... when all the data points say it was a bad move, regardless of the fact that we ended up with Karl. We could have had Karl the moment Malone was let go.
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I've thought the same thing, but here's an interesting sidebar: If Karl had been brought in right after the firing, would the players (who loved/trusted Malone) have embraced him or given him more of the Ty Corbin treatment? The ends don't justify the means, but I'm thinking that long weeks of Basketball Hell made me - and likely the players - much more receptive. Karl's hiring has started to appease me as a fan, but that's largely because we're winning and I don't know that we would be had Karl immediately succeeded Malone.

Though I'd attribute it to dumb luck and not any brilliant master plan, I would suggest this has worked in Karl's favor (and ultimately ours) very strongly.

Mizzou King

PS: For the record, I'm still pissed about Malone. ;)
 
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You bring up a good point. I think there would have been discomfort for sure, but I also agree on the dumb luck angle. Karl may end up just bringing this group back to where Malone had them, or he might take them even higher. We won't know, and, judging by the fact that there's going to be a firesale this offseason, we may never know. Having the players go through hell certainly helped them appreciate Karl a lot more. I know it did for the fans. I feel it would have been diabolical for the FO to intentionally toy with everyone (players, Corbin, fans), so I'm going to assume that it was dumb luck.

I also wonder if Corbin's hiring was more of a safety net for Malone than he'd care to say. "You're going to let him replace me? Good luck with that." It'd be diabolical. Right up my alley, but I'm going to assume that he was a professional.
 
If they thought crap hit the fan once they sacked Malone and promoted Corbin, they have seen nothing yet. If they trade Cousins there will be nuclear war in Sacramento and these idiots would be on top of all crap lists.

I can understand the interest in Lawson and in some ways, I can see some merit in it but if they trade Cousins, they will burn all bridges and they will be right on them. Karl is on his last fumes, a great coach but Cousins will still be a superstar long after Karl is no longer coaching innthe NBA.
 
So, the celtics are talking the exact same transition from structure (Sousa) to pace and space (jazz) basketball.

I posted this elsewhere in the Isaiah Thomas watch thread, but it seems relevant to point out the Kings aren't the only team talking the same things.

Nice and weird is an accurate description of where the Celtics are right now. Thomas’ play has already helped begin the transition from a highly structured offensive philosophy into more of the pace-and-space method that’s in vogue these days. All of that is fine with Stevens, who has been thrilled with what his new guard brings to the team.

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/3/1/81...ltics-jae-crowder-rebooted-sunday-shootaround
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