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KingMilz
Guest
Caught red handedAh, come on. Just admit you didn't see his final sentence when you originally replied.
Overall Impressions from Summer League
- Thread starter Jerichoholic
- Start date
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Really an odd situation. Since they haven't made any real statement at all,..I almost wonder if something happened off the court in Vegas. Who knows, but without a trade happening, it doesn't make much sense....unless like several around here, they finally just said "forget him, time to move on"
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KingMilz
Guest
Didn't me play really well but the game before he vanished? Probably the first time in D-Will's career someone helped him vanish during a game normally he does it all on his own.
In general the average basketball fan would look at the 3.5ppg and 44% and think he's crap, but I know you Jamal your above average so you know what's up
I'm just saying from watching Moreland he was the most impactful player in the SL
Sure, the average fan might see that, but if they spent another 30 seconds looking up his 16.4 RPG/36 minutes and his 5 BPG/36, they'd wet their pants and wonder who reincarnated Ben Wallace.
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KingMilz
Guest
I need diapers
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Maybe his agent pulled him. It's not great marketing of yourself to play poorly in summer league.
King Baller
All-Star
Moreland and Oriakhi got more minutes and that led to the wins IMO. Both of those guys are hard nosed Bigs that do all the dirty work that disrupts the other team.
Time after time it has been proven that if a team gets after it on defense, blocks shots and rebounds the heck out of the ball they can win even while shooting poorly.
Albatros
Starter
Chupacabra
Starter
Stauskas always plays with composure. Mclemore is terrible at making interior passes. Moreland needs to be signed and kept somewhere that only we have access to.
Yes he was. Of the guys listed Vonleh averaged the most minutes at 28 per game. If you adjust everybody else to per 28 minutes Moreland is the best rebounder at 12.8 boards per 28 minutes followed by Vonleh at 10.4. Payne was a distant third at 7 rebounds per 28.
And in terms of blocks, Moreland blocked 3.9 per 28 minutes followed closely by Noel at 3.4 blocks per 28. McGary a distant third at 1.9 per 28 and the rest of the guys at 1 per game or less.
And this is where I'm trying to not get too excited about an undrafted rookie and reminding myself that (1) he's older than everybody other than Payne (who is a few months older than Moreland) by a year to three years (2) his offensive game is practically nonexistent and (3) it's just summer league.
That said, there are only a couple skills that you expect to transfer from the NCAA level to the pros. One is shooting and the other is rebounding. Everyone knew Vonleh was a long term project but at the very least he projected to be a good rebounder from day 1. And Nerlens Noel was drafted as the best shot blocker/rim protector to come around in a number of years. Statistically he was a better interior defender in college than Anthony Davis. And yet Moreland actually rebounded better than Vonleh and blocked more shots and was just a big a force defensively as Noel. Again, you can say that Noel only played a couple games so the statistics are skewed. Sure, but Moreland also played the last three games as back-to-back-to-backs and still grabbed 8, 12 and 10 rebounds and blocked 3 shots in each game averaging just around 20 minutes per contest. That's impressive in terms of both consistency and the ability to bring it with what you'd assume are tired legs.
Right now all we have to go on is summer league. And Moreland was the best interior defender and rebounder of anybody who played. Why is he not signed already?
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Yep. I like watching SL without draft pick status in mind. Helps you eliminate some bias and just watch performance. It might have been you, but I absolutely love the line when someone said, "If Moreland was a top 10 pick, we'd all be thrilled with the way he performed and clamoring for him to start." Essentially, if you asked someone who had no clue where people went in the draft, based of SL performance, they'd probably take Moreland before just about every big in the draft.
Obviously, being a SL hero is only one step to being a productive NBA player. But it's a crucial one for players who aren't lottery picks or don't get drafted at all. Had Ben been an undrafted rookie FA last year, or 2nd round pick, we probably cut. Just a reality of the NBA that Lottery picks get years to figure out
Everyone else pretty much has to show something right away to get into a rotation. Moreland has done that and more. Sign him to the Ray McCallum deal and let him play 30+ MPG in Reno for a year and see what he does. Then it's up to him to take the next step.
There's a lot of moves that could be debated one way or the other for the FO to do. This one would just be flat out incompetence if we don't make it happen. He fits the traits of a team weakness, we have the roster space open, and he's cheap. If we screw it up, I guarentee you'll see at least 5+ teams trying to get him on their roster
gunks
Hall of Famer
That was my first thought....Without the pants wetting.
Then I saw Moreland's pedestrian steals per game average and sunk back to earth
Big Ben was such a beast...
Jerichoholic
Bench
As impressive as Moreland's rebounds and blocks were I think perhaps even more impressive was his behind the stats impact. Blocks are recorded, shots altered are not and he altered plenty, he definitely protected the paint on a consistent basis. Also key to our successful defense was his ability to defend the pick and roll, he switched when necessary, stayed when necessary, and when he had to switch he was able to switch back at the right moment, very smart play. The great thing about this is that it doesn't really come down to level of talent of your competition as much as just having a good feel for the game. This is something Moreland can do well at when he gets to the next level, something that Jason Thompson for example will never be able to do well. The last thing was his energy level and stamina, he was able to play with a lot of energy for extended minutes which is a good sign.
No question he needs to put on some muscle and playing a full NBA season will take a lot out of him early on, just like with any rookie. However after watching every game I think we might have more here than just an end of bench guy or D-League guy. We better sign him and if we do come training camp I think he will surprising many people and teammates.
No question he needs to put on some muscle and playing a full NBA season will take a lot out of him early on, just like with any rookie. However after watching every game I think we might have more here than just an end of bench guy or D-League guy. We better sign him and if we do come training camp I think he will surprising many people and teammates.
I agree. I think it's interesting that so many people think the Kings should sign Moreland and send him to the D-league. He was the best defensive big man in the summer league. Better than rookies taken in the top ten. Better than 2nd year players who contributed significantly last season. I thought he looked better than Nerlens Noel, at least on the defensive end and definitely on the glass. He's coming in comparable in size and athleticism to nearly every athletic PF shot blocker that Kings fans have lusted after: Noel, Davis, Sanders, Henson, Chandler etc. He's incredibly limited on offense but defensively he's so far showed he's at that level.
Moreland not only changed shots, he changed momentum. Don't know why Oriakhi was starting over him every game, but there was a noticeable shift when Moreland got in the game. At least on the summer league level he was an impact player. In fact, my biggest concern isn't that his size or skill level won't translate to success in the NBA, it's that I wonder if he'll still play so hungry once he lands an NBA paycheck, even one that's meager by NBA standards.
Because in a perfect world Eric Moreland would develop into a Larry Sanders like player for the Kings (and hopefully also develop a reliable 15-18 ft jumper) and start alongside Cousins with Jason Thompson serving as the third big off the bench at both PF and C. The fourth big would ideally be a stretch four (Ryan Anderson, Channing Frye, Robert Horry even a Spencer Hawes but NOT actually Spencer Hawes type player) which lets you cover all bases.
Under most circumstances DMC guards the physically bigger front court player and Moreland protects the rim. Playing a team with a pair of physical bigs? Get JT in the game early. Defense really collapsing on DMC? Get that stretch 4 out there to open things up or punish them for packing the paint.
Again, Moreland may only be a flash in the pan summer league guy (I sure hope not and he looks to be the real deal to me so far) but he's the TYPE of player you want with Cousins. And JT (minus the whining to the refs and grumbling about his role/touches etc) is the TYPE of backup big you want with Cuz as he can spell him or play with him. And a stretch four is the TYPE of bench player that adds a dimension to the team that is useful.
Evans doesn't fit any of those roles. And his lack of size and complete lack of offense doesn't even let him play the Oakley/PJ Brown role, another possible fit next to Cousins, though ideally off the bench. Acy is clearly thinking that becoming a stretch PF type player is his key to continued employment and the early results are relatively encouraging though I don't know that he'll ever be the pure shooter that a guy like Anderson or Matt Bonner are.
Landry doesn't really fit anywhere. Yeah, he can be a good scorer off the bench but that means he's really only at his most effective when Boogie is on the bench. If Cousins is in good shape and foul trouble that's ideally only 12-15 minutes a game and sometimes less.
Again, I hope the team signs Moreland. And I hope it clears some room for him to play at least a few minutes per game as an energizer by trading away a PF or two. Evans is an ending contract and could very well be dealt but will be gone from the roster in a year anyway. Acy could be gone now, but for under $ 1 million I think the Kings should pick up his option because he represents great value. Still, he could also be gone in a year.
Which really just leaves Thompson and Landry who are both signed for several seasons and who make too much money to both stick around. I think PDA will deal Thompson rather than Landry but as I've said countless times I think that's a mistake. If Boogie is your cornerstone, surround him with guys that compliment him. JT does. Landry doesn't.
If Carl gets dealt I don't think it affects the team. If Thompson is dealt you now lack a PF who can guard the likes of Z-Bo, Griffin, Aldridge, etc let alone a guy who can guard opposing centers (Howard, Hibbert, Duncan, etc) so Cousins doesn't have to. You also leave the team without a backup center.
I said last year that the Kings had essentially two starting spots filled and two key bench spots filled.
Cousins and Gay are quality starters at C and SF respectively. JT is a quality 3rd big off the bench and IT should be a top tier sixth man. What they needed was a 3&D SG, a starting PG and an interior defender at PF (or C and shift DMC to PF). Now IT is gone and they are supposedly still shopping JT.
Which means that the only way they can not lose ground (at least according to my biased view of things) is if Collison turns out to be a hit as a starting PG and/or Moreland really can become that rim protector at PF that we need. Well, I guess Stauskas and/or McLemore becoming that 3&D SG could have them better off than where they were last year.
But if JT is traded it means the bench is still a jumbled mess outside of Ray Mac showing to be a steady backup PG.
We'll see. But I'm definitely rooting for Moreland.
Moreland not only changed shots, he changed momentum. Don't know why Oriakhi was starting over him every game, but there was a noticeable shift when Moreland got in the game. At least on the summer league level he was an impact player. In fact, my biggest concern isn't that his size or skill level won't translate to success in the NBA, it's that I wonder if he'll still play so hungry once he lands an NBA paycheck, even one that's meager by NBA standards.
Because in a perfect world Eric Moreland would develop into a Larry Sanders like player for the Kings (and hopefully also develop a reliable 15-18 ft jumper) and start alongside Cousins with Jason Thompson serving as the third big off the bench at both PF and C. The fourth big would ideally be a stretch four (Ryan Anderson, Channing Frye, Robert Horry even a Spencer Hawes but NOT actually Spencer Hawes type player) which lets you cover all bases.
Under most circumstances DMC guards the physically bigger front court player and Moreland protects the rim. Playing a team with a pair of physical bigs? Get JT in the game early. Defense really collapsing on DMC? Get that stretch 4 out there to open things up or punish them for packing the paint.
Again, Moreland may only be a flash in the pan summer league guy (I sure hope not and he looks to be the real deal to me so far) but he's the TYPE of player you want with Cousins. And JT (minus the whining to the refs and grumbling about his role/touches etc) is the TYPE of backup big you want with Cuz as he can spell him or play with him. And a stretch four is the TYPE of bench player that adds a dimension to the team that is useful.
Evans doesn't fit any of those roles. And his lack of size and complete lack of offense doesn't even let him play the Oakley/PJ Brown role, another possible fit next to Cousins, though ideally off the bench. Acy is clearly thinking that becoming a stretch PF type player is his key to continued employment and the early results are relatively encouraging though I don't know that he'll ever be the pure shooter that a guy like Anderson or Matt Bonner are.
Landry doesn't really fit anywhere. Yeah, he can be a good scorer off the bench but that means he's really only at his most effective when Boogie is on the bench. If Cousins is in good shape and foul trouble that's ideally only 12-15 minutes a game and sometimes less.
Again, I hope the team signs Moreland. And I hope it clears some room for him to play at least a few minutes per game as an energizer by trading away a PF or two. Evans is an ending contract and could very well be dealt but will be gone from the roster in a year anyway. Acy could be gone now, but for under $ 1 million I think the Kings should pick up his option because he represents great value. Still, he could also be gone in a year.
Which really just leaves Thompson and Landry who are both signed for several seasons and who make too much money to both stick around. I think PDA will deal Thompson rather than Landry but as I've said countless times I think that's a mistake. If Boogie is your cornerstone, surround him with guys that compliment him. JT does. Landry doesn't.
If Carl gets dealt I don't think it affects the team. If Thompson is dealt you now lack a PF who can guard the likes of Z-Bo, Griffin, Aldridge, etc let alone a guy who can guard opposing centers (Howard, Hibbert, Duncan, etc) so Cousins doesn't have to. You also leave the team without a backup center.
I said last year that the Kings had essentially two starting spots filled and two key bench spots filled.
Cousins and Gay are quality starters at C and SF respectively. JT is a quality 3rd big off the bench and IT should be a top tier sixth man. What they needed was a 3&D SG, a starting PG and an interior defender at PF (or C and shift DMC to PF). Now IT is gone and they are supposedly still shopping JT.
Which means that the only way they can not lose ground (at least according to my biased view of things) is if Collison turns out to be a hit as a starting PG and/or Moreland really can become that rim protector at PF that we need. Well, I guess Stauskas and/or McLemore becoming that 3&D SG could have them better off than where they were last year.
But if JT is traded it means the bench is still a jumbled mess outside of Ray Mac showing to be a steady backup PG.
We'll see. But I'm definitely rooting for Moreland.
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HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
i tend to believe he is part of the proposed trade for Josh Smith. the timeline just makes too much sense. And the fact they never mentioned anything about how Williams would only be playing 3 games, and this is a guy who needs all the work he can get
Jerichoholic
Bench
It is an odd scenario. Of course the team made a comment before the fourth game saying that this was the plan all along, Derrick Williams was never going to play more than three games, that was the agreed upon plan. A couple of interesting things there though. Why did they not say this before the summer league began? Why did they not say this right after the third game? Why make the commitment to play in summer league at all for only three games? None of this is typical behavior. This didn't feel like a plan, it felt like a change at the last minute, before game 4.
So the question is, what happened? Perhaps a Josh Smith trade was imminent so he was pulled and when the trade didn't immediately happen they decided to keep Williams out for the remainder of summer league just in case the trade did eventually end up taking place. Perhaps they did pull him for the trade that didn't happen and they saw how well the team played without him and decided to test out how things would go without him for the rest of the games. Perhaps worst case is that he was such a mess and got in the way of the plan Malone was testing that they had to bench him. Remember that Malone was talking about using parts of the Spurs' offensive and defensive sets to see how it would go with these young guys to see if it was worth perhaps bringing it into training camp for the veterans. Williams didn't seem to buy in, was way too selfish, didn't move the ball, and didn't play strong defense. This is all speculation, but it is an interesting discussion.
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
very interesting
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