He didn't pass in Summer League either.So based just on this open practice, and forgetting anything he did last year or in summer league,or anything he may do in the coming exhibition games, Casspi is a selfish SOB and Donte should get the starting job. Great observation there. I like a man that keeps an open mind.
And even Bricklayer has some concern and mentioned he has long been concerned with the flashes of selfishness Casspi seems to suffer from - which means this is not sort of a one-game/open practice observation. And strangely, he agreed and said spot on.He didn't pass in Summer League either.
Thats not it at all. I'm fine with Casspi taking open shots or creating for himself. But when that is ALL you see from him, and when he takes the ball to the basket only looking to score and not even trying to involve his teammates it gets frustrating.
I just saw the game and, seriously, calling him selfish is just nitpicking and a very wild exaggeration, he wasn't more "selfish" than the other players and especially not more than Greene, all of his shots were when he was open, either while getting the pass or after a dribble, and in fact he only penetrated and tried to score once the entire game and just finished poorly, but he got to the basket, also, his assist was from a short penetration and a pass.
If you are so sure of his selfishness, please, we have the game's recording here, tell us in what minutes he made selfish plays, so we all can objectively review it.
You are entitled for an opinion, so do I, but i don't know why, it seems like you made your mind(for whatever reason) that Casspi is selfish and nothing will convince you otherwise, no matter what stats or factorial comparison to other players I might give you.
You know the situation when police detectives thinks they already know the solution to the case and unconsciously just match the evidence to fit their theory? i think this is what you are doing now.
This whole opinion that Omri is selfish is not based on the scrimmage alone friend.
I think the point made was that Omri has shown selfish moments beyond just this one game. Weren't complaints made about this aspect of him during summer league as well? And just one example from last year, but he infamously stole a rebound from Tyreke that would have given him a triple double.
This is one of the clearest example of why I see Casspi as seemingly a "me-first" kind of player and seems to be oblivious of his teammates as long as he gets his thing. I think what MDM was saying is not a nonsense thing and you don't have to have played the game to actually understand the psychology of players behind the situation. What MDM was saying is in fact a BIG thing.You have to be kidding me? You really think that Casspi intentionly stole a rebound from Tyreke in order to keep him from getting a triple double? You need to get a life pal. Have you played the game? Never mind, I'm not going to waste my time with this nonsense.
Wow, you really believe that? I'm sorry but thinking he did that on purpose is just nonsense, and again, nitpicking.
Maybe it's hopeless to even start answering you, but bajaden "Have you played the game?" comment is quite right, there are numerous occasions of professional players taking a defensive rebound and immediately dunking the ball in their own basket, it's not because these players are stupid, it's because they practice so much on certain actions and movements that sometimes they just do it automatically without thinking about it, Casspi saw a ball in the air and jumped to get it because that's what he is used to do, maybe when he landed he realized Evans could have got it, but it was already too late, that's it, no conspiracy, no hidden agenda.
True. I don't think anyone is saying that he intentionally grabbed the rebound to prevent Tyreke from getting the triple double. Rather, as a team mate he could (not should) have been more aware of the situation and let Tyreke get the board
They should change Omri's middle and last name to 'No Passpi'. That guy does NOT pass the rock. I'll take Donte in my starting lineup based on his unselfishness alone. No Passpi never met a shot he didn't like. He only made one pass that was not from a rebound or loose ball, and it resulted in his lone assist of the game.
Jeter is a stud. Reke's jumper is about to make playing defense on him unfair, JT stayed under control, Donte's new muscle doesn't affect his athleticism, M Landry hit his shots, C Landry never got a flow, Cousins quietly scored about 14 AND made passes few centers of all time could have made AND gobbled up boards, Beno picked his spots, Garcia picked his spots, and Darnell Robinson needs to make the squad.
So based just on this open practice, and forgetting anything he did last year or in summer league,or anything he may do in the coming exhibition games, Casspi is a selfish SOB and Donte should get the starting job. Great observation there. I like a man that keeps an open mind.
So:
-- Casspi looked strong, but rarely matched against Greene head to head. While I have long been concerend with the flashes of selfishness he seems to suffer from, not at all concerend about anything I saw in this, an intrasquad scrimmage to cap the first week of camp.
-- DeMarcus did most of his damage against Darnell Jackson, so not truly a one on one with Dalembert.
-- Reke was pressing and sloppy early
-- JT was missing everything early, but the shots/selection looked very solid and not spastic. Was drawing fouls again later with the activity.
-- Cousins court vision remains fantastic for a big
-- Sloan actually had a couple of nice scores in the first half. In fact might have looked better here than in any of the Summer League games. Not enough to save him however.
-- J.R. couldn't contend with either Reke or Casspi on defense, and hence the release probably. Also couldn't finish anything inside. Looks like it might be time to queue up Springsteen's "Glory Days" for him. He seems to have peaked in high school.
-- Marcus Landry will have to make it as a wide SF, classic tweener and not able to handle JT in the post as a PF. Knocked down his shots though.
-- When they were matched Cousins and Daly were having a pretty good physical battle with some talking, Cousins could not take Daly in the post, but stepped out and got him with several jumpers
-- Reke's ability to pull up and hit the jumper vastly improved. In fact given the early pressing, may have been the best thing he was doing and ironically, and promisingly, he almost used the fear of his jumper to set up his later drives this time. On the flip side late in the game he had so much confidence in it that he chucked up two ill advised jumpers without looking to do much else -- I would rather his arm snap off at the wrist then he ever become a player for whom the jumper is his first option.
-- DeMarcus still looks like more Mikki than Daly as an interior defender -- his primary help defense is trying to take the charge
-- Darnell Jackson, per his rep, was aggressive offensively both inside and showing no hesitation in knocking down jumpers. As mentioned above, Jackson could not guard Cousins at all.
-- Pooh's game has nothing to do with Bobby Jackson, come on guys. But he did look like he more than belonged out there, and might have as much to do with Sloan's release as anything. Very much knew what he was doing and capable of the highlight pass.
-- Antoine Wright couldn't stay in front of Reke either, and that's his speciality, but he did show an understanding of how to be an offensive asset as a roleplayer by cutting to the hoop repeatedly.
-- Carl was not so much awful as just invisible
-- Not sure how I felt about the extra weight Donte is carrying. First I would never have guessed he was up at 250. Secondly thre was no obvious sluggishness. But third he never quite got by people and wasn't quite dynamic out there, leading to middling results. Nothing you could really put your finger on, and could very well just be early training camp stuff. That's all I would have chalked it up to if I had not heard about the weight. But still... Did do a nice job staying in front of Reke on one of this drives though.
-- Head was too often being used as a PG, and too often chucking up wild threes that did not even draw iron.
-- Dalembert looked a little soft physcially to me. Moved decently though, and still has an almost comically long reach when he sticks his arms up.
-- Cisco scored in a variety of ways and looked good. Also defended Reke decently early. If there was a critique it would be that it was largely just scoring, making the choice between he and Beno more stark as far as skillsets.
-- Beno didn't do much, but did hit the tough sealing layup for his team in the final 30 seconds.
Does someone have the "Aww jeez. Not this ____ again" image?
We should save that for the "is Evans a PG or a SG threads."See: Post #94
We should save that for the "is Evans a PG or a SG threads."![]()
Prince said:People better make-up their minds whether to agree or disagree, or just plainly say I don't agree with you because I don't like you.
This is one of the clearest example of why I see Casspi as seemingly a "me-first" kind of player and seems to be oblivious of his teammates as long as he gets his thing. I think what MDM was saying is not a nonsense thing and you don't have to have played the game to actually understand the psychology of players behind the situation. What MDM was saying is in fact a BIG thing.
Who would have thought that in the NBA game players are not aware whether their teammate is on the brink of a triple-double, especially when fans are shouting about it? Tell that to the marines if you think those players are not aware OR maybe it was a case of Casspi showing his self-centered character who usually think of himself only and not mindful of others during games.
I guess the bottom line is that Casspi was seemingly thinking of himself only and not mindful of his teammates and he should have known that Evans needed that rebound to get that triple-double. He could have let Evans get that rebound and get the glory, but he did not. Nice-guy.
That's the impression I got from Summer League. Exaggerations aside, Casspi needs a reality check. Passing the ball is not an elective activity.
Well, as I stated, I heard the directions coming from Ellie's own mouth to both Casspi and Greene. And to the best of my knowledge both were trying to implement what they were being told to do. Now how well they accomplished that is certainly up for debate. But I have a hard time being critical of a player for trying to do as he's told. As I said, I don't think pasing the ball is Casspi's strong suit, and he certainly needs to work on that part of his game, but I think thats a long way from being selfish. But thats just my opinion. Plus, I don't like negative labels. Especially on a player just starting his second year, and thats had a lot more pressure on him than the average rookie would have had.
Just to reiterate, I never said Omri is selfish. I said he never met a shot he didn't like and that I would take Donte based on his unselfishness. I said that Omri would (to me anyway) be best suited as a volume scorer off the bench because that seems to be his major area of focus when he is on the court.
Maybe my comment was taken out of context being that I called Donte unselfish so people jumped to the conclusion that I was intimating that Omri in fact IS selfish. That is not the case. I'm not calling Omri selfish. I'm only stating that when he gets the ball he is focused on scoring. Not a bad thing if he has a defined role (off the bench volume scorer and not a starting SF where he POTENTIALLY can disrupt chemistry by not passing and/or sharing with Tyreke and Cousins who by all rights should have the ball the most as they are much more willing passers) and he accepts that role.
I just remember seeing Cousins get a little frustrated in the VSL when Omri took ill-advised shots and Cousins wanted the ball. I don't want to see that this upcoming season. Not when it looks like the guys are getting along so well and they have great chemistry off the court already. That's my major concern and I think it is a valid one. I'm sure Westphal will be able to keep these guys happy, and the more they are having fun then the better they will perform. The Kings have something here. And I hear everybody talking about the focus is on the team and winning and it not being about them.
And if you reread Omri's interview SHC posted, nowhere is he really mentioning the team, but he does spend a lot of time saying "I" and "me". Just a bit scary for this longtime Kings fan.
Okay, that's all well and good, but as a basketball player -- since some are so fond of asking if others have ever played the game -- when you drive to the hole and a man comes open, you pass the ball. That's just good basketball. If the coaches tell you to look for your own shot, that doesn't mean you ignore the fundamentals of the game. In the NBA, you cannot be an effective scorer if you refuse to pass the ball to the open man.
I'm not labeling Casspi as a selfish player. I just don't like to see a player drive into a double team and then fail to hit his open teammate. Especially on our team, which saw its glory days when players wouldn't hesitate to make the open pass. Casspi did plenty of that in Summer League, and it annoyed me. I'm not calling him a ball hog. I'm just saying he needs to move the rock.
And this is particularly concerning when it pertains to a player who is being pulled in two different directions like Casspi. On the one hand, he's a secondary part of a young team struggling to find an identity, and on the other hand he's viewed as the best thing since sliced bread by his homeland fans. There was even the article last year about how he's viewed back home, and we discussed here how that view simply doesn't mesh with his role on our team. That's why I said he might need a reality check, because while it's really cool that he can carry the banner for his country, he's not a star player. He's likely not gonna be a star player. He has a role on this team, and that role is best fulfilled when he's functioning as part of a cohesive unit, not when he's gunning for himself.
So yeah, I'm not calling him Allen Iverson or anything. I'm just saying that I want to see him -- and everyone else, for that matter -- hit the open man when he gets doubled on a drive. I also want to see him take his open shots, and go strong to the rim and finish. I don't need him to pass everytime he gets the rock, or everytime he drives. I just don't want to see him looking his teammates off, which he did consistently in Summer League, and which he apparently did in the scrimmage.
I'm not disagreeing with you. I agree that when he drives to the basket he sometimes makes bad decisions. And he needs to improve in that area if he wants to become a good player. I seem to remember Jon Barry doing the same thing, but for different reasons. Jon would drive to the basket with the intent of passing to a teammate. Unfortunately he would leave his feet with no one to pass to. Now that may be more admirable because he was trying to set up a teammate, but the end result was the same. Usually a turnover.
I went back and rewatched the scrimmage and I saw where Casspi drove to the basket twice. Once he had nothing and forced up a shot. The other time he made a nice pass for an assist. The rest of the time he took open shots that he should have taken. I'm not going to go back and relive last season. But if we wanted to be fair, why don't we compare Donte's rookie season to Casspi's. Thats the season where Donte became the black hole from three point land. Donte came out of college with the rep as a player that never saw a shot he didn't like. I think we can safely say that Donte's game has improved considerably.
As far as Casspi being a role player or a star? I've learned to wait before making declarations. Logic tells us that he'll be a role player. Lets face it, the majority of players in the NBA are role players. Some are just higher on the food chain than others. But not all stars start off as stars. Nowitzki didn't look lke much more than a role player his first year in the league. He only shot 20% from 3 pt range that year. Ginobili certainly didn't look like a star his first two years. Especially his first year. One could almost draw comparisons between Ginobili and Casspi in style of play. Pop's said that no player on his team gave him more grey hair than Ginobili. I guess one could also make the analogy that using Ginobili as an example, Casspi should come off the bench.
Anyway, you could be right about Casspi being a role player. The odds are in your favor. But I'd still wait if I were you..
@bajaden:
1) If Casspi is going to be a star, it's going to have to be on another team, assuming the obvious about Tyreke and Cousins.
2) As for Ginobili, he's a really, really good player, and he plays a crucial role for his team. He has the ball in his hands a whole lot. But he's also a willing passer. He's always done a great job of setting his teammates up, no matter whether he was starting or coming off the bench with more scoring responsibility. He may have driven Pop nuts at times, but it's not because he looks his teammates off. Assuming Tyreke and Cousins reach their potential, we would welcome a Ginobili-type player.
3) I'm willing to run the risk of pegging Casspi as "not a star," even this early in his career. I don't see Dirk potential in Casspi. He could turn into Peja or Rashard Lewis or someone like that, and that's fine, and he'd fit in that role, but Lewis knows how to hit his teammates when he's doubled, and Peja never drove the lane, so this wasn't an issue. Even still, Peja as a vet displayed better court vision than Casspi has so far, so he'll still have to work on that aspect of his game.
4) I didn't see the scrimmage, or the preseason game last night. I don't know whether this is going to continue to be an issue. I do know that he's displayed these traits in the past, and they've been well documented. My original contribution to this topic was that the concern over Casspi's passing had a lot more to do with just the scrimmage. I had the same concern without even seeing the scrimmage. It's a valid concern, and it's something that he'll have to improve on.
5) There's something to be said for a player that can score in bunches, off the bench or not. If Omri is going to be a gunner, I'm sure we could find a role for him and capitalize on that ability. Nothing wrong with getting him his shots if he has that ability. But he'll still need to be able to hit the open man when he's doubled. That's a part of basketball, no matter your status or your role.
Let me be clear. I'm not saying that Casspi is going to be a star. All I'm saying, is that I never say never, after just one year in the league, especially if a player has shown above average potential, which I think Casspi did at times last year. My use of Ginobilli and Dirk was to show they did nothing their first year to make people believe that they could be stars. Quite the contrary. People in Dallas were starting to say that Dirk was a bust after his first year. To say that Ginobilli is a really good player, is to mean he's a really good player now, but he wasn't such a good player his first two years in the league. As a matter of fact he played in a very similar way to Casspi.
But were beating this subject to death, and to be honest, I'm not sure why it really came up. Casspi may suffer from tunnel vision at times, but I think he's still learning how to play in the NBA. Last night he had seven rebounds, shot the ball well, and had 4 assists to go with no turnovers. I didn't see him play, but stat wise he looks just fine to me. From what a friend told me that was at the game, Casspi played pretty good defense as well. Like I said, I wasn't there, nor did I see it on tv. So its all second hand info.
I know you weren't calling him Dirk or Ginobili. I compared him to Ginobili because, while their playing style might bear some resemblance, even when Ginobili first came in, he was a willing passer. If Casspi turns out to be a Ginobili-level player, that would be great, but only so long as he's passing the ball when someone comes open. And there's not too much point in comparing him to Dirk, because Dirk was on a team that needed and allowed him to become the #1 option. Perhaps Casspi has that ability, but it's not the role we need him to play.
Tunnel vision is one thing, and that's something that you would expect to improve. It's also another thing to look to pass too much, as the expense of going strong and finishing. I like Casspi's game. Maybe it's just tunnel vision. I wouldn't be so concerned about it if there weren't indications that he views himself as #1 option material, and thinks that the team should use him in that capacity. If it were 2007, I'd be screaming that we should get him the ball, because that's a good mentality to have when you're on a team with no #1 option. We have a clear #1, and assuming the obvious, we have a #2, and everyone else is going to have to conform to the dynamics that go with that inside-out duo, regardless of what they feel they're capable of.
I welcome Casspi's scoring, as long as it comes within the proper context. If so, it would be beneficial to the team. I just wonder whether he needs an attitude adjustment, and it's not just because of a scrimmage. There's been little hints here and there, and it might be starting to manifest itself on the court. I think it's a substantive concern.