Hadlowe
Starter
I must be missing something? Are we supposed to trade Gay for Hayward?
One-Two Punches
- Thread starter Bricklayer
- Start date
I must be missing something? Are we supposed to trade Gay for Hayward?
Follow the links to NBA sports ProBasketballTalk. They give grades for Tuesday night. Cousins and Gay received an A as an explosive duo.
Dreadnought
Bench
I clearly see the performance. For a small forward, I personally like the play style of Andre Iguodala over someone like Rudy. Completely omitting salary, past judgement, etc., I just prefer a different kind of player, that's all.
JSin
Bench
I guess somebody has to buy those kings-shaded glasses...
Uncia03
Starter
Excellent. I'm glad you decided to comment on this. I was hoping you would.
The Numbers
First Lillard vs. Gay
Lillard had 42 points on 24 shots, 4 assists, 7 rebounds, 0 Steals and 6 TOs
Gay had 32 points on 16 shots, 4 assists, 5 rebounds, 1 Steal, and 1 TO.
It took Lillard 8 more shots to get 10 more points. He also gave up 5 more possessions via TO and didn't get any back with 0 steals to Gay's 1.
Second Lillard vs. Cousins
Lillard had 42 points on 24 shots, 4 assists, 7 rebounds, 0 Steals and 6 TOs
Cousins had 35 points on 28 shots, 2 assists, 13 rebounds, 2 Steals and 2 TOs
So Lillard had 7 more points on 4 less shots which is quite nice. But had half the rebounds. Also Cousins Assist/TO/Steal ratio is better than Lillards...and that should never be the case when comparing a Center to a PG.
Behind the Numbers
Gay was clearly more efficient with his game. He scored with ease and he didn't hurt his team with more turn-overs than assists.
Cousins did what a dominate center is supposed to do. He scored, he went to the line, and he rebounded.
Lillard did not play a good PG game. His 4 Assists to 6 TOs in 38 minutes of play is really bad.
And to top it all off...the primary reason why both Gay and Cousins had better games than Lillard should be abundantly obvious.
Lillard scored 16 points in the last 2 minutes of the game in a "run-and-let's jack up anything we can" style of basketball.
Those points didn't come when the game mattered.
On the other hand both Gay's and Cousins' points put the Kings up so much that it made irrelevant the points that Lillard scored late.
So take away the 16 points in the last two minutes and you've got Lillard sitting on 26 points, 4 assists, and 6 TOs in a losing effort. Sorry that just isn't good enough in this game.
Funny how most fans voted 1-3 and 4-6. How does a team have a top NBA ranked 5 duo, yet is the 4th suckiest team right now? I think they would be in the teens area because I don't think they are players who compliment another. I know this says for the future, but someone mentioned yesterday that Cousins could make Gay stay.. really? Gay isn't going to waste the rest of his NBA career with the kings especially if we don't make any noise in the playoffs next year. He's still in his prime, and I'm not sure if he would want to be a part of rebuilding team for the next 5 years when he could be on a contending team.
I think the only way he stays is if we spend money to keep him here, or if we become a playoff team. I think the kings can become contenders if Pete makes the right moves.
I think the only way he stays is if we spend money to keep him here, or if we become a playoff team. I think the kings can become contenders if Pete makes the right moves.
I think Gay was the best player of the night. Cuz and Lillard are ones to talk about. I don't know if you watch the Blazers very much, but Lillard isn't much of a passing pg. You can't really judge TOs between players of 2 different positions... you're comparing a PG's TO to a C's TO ratio. It must mean half of IT's stats are pointless too. He gets hot in the 4th quarter when it doesn't matter anymore. Lillard played exceptionally well. I still think Cuz just outplayed Lillard last night by a small margin, but you can't deny that Lillard is clutch. The game does matter in the 4th quarter. I honestly thing games come down to the 4th quarter. Kings have played a majority of games where they've played pretty good in the first 3 quarters, but have a break down in the 4th. I think teams give up way too early even when down in the 4th quarter. The whole 48minutes in game time matters. It wasn't good enough in this game, but it was pretty damn good.
Uncia03
Starter
Well I'm glad we're in agreement that Cousins and Gay outplayed Lillard in last night's game.
I just want to point a couple of things out.
I am familiar with Lillard's game and understand that he isn't a traditional PG, but is a scoring PG. But he normally has 6 assists and 2.5 TOs a game. So it's perfectly acceptable to point out that he played poorly in the actual PG aspect of this game.
Also notice that when comparing the players I talked about their accumulative Assists, Steals, & TOs. While you normally wouldn't compare those three stats from one position to another, you can do that for PGs.
PGs with-out question should crush all other positions when you look at those combined metrics.
Its the same thing as expecting a Center to crush a PG or SG when looking at the combined metrics of rebounds and blocked shots.
In this game Lillard lost in the PG-heavy metrics to a Center and a SF. This is one of the reasons why he didn't have as good of a game as the other two.
Finally, no-one is saying that the game doesn't matter in the 4th quarter. What I am saying is that junk ball at the end of the game, when it's pretty much been decided doesn't matter.
Lillard scored 16 points in the final 2 minutes. Yay!
IT scored 9 points in the final 2 minutes. Yay again!
Those points for both players were largely irrelevant.
If Lillard scores those 16 points in the first two minutes of the 4th quarter then perhaps he gets the nod for 'best player' honors because scoring those points at the start of the 4th quarter changes the entire dynamic of the game, and probably end up giving the Blazers the win.
4th quarter points matter until the game is so far in hand that they don't matter any longer. Both IT and Lillard's points in the last 2 minutes fall in the category of 'Nice but ultimately not impactful'.
JSin
Bench
Nothing like some points that don't matter to put the fear of God into the game's best player... how about we agree on this, statistically, Gay and Cousins were superior. But like I mentioned earlier, Lillard has no fear, and while some fans will just look at the box score and say "Gay was better", there are alot of teams in the league that would sacrifice some points for clutchness, which Lillard has shown in spades very early in his career.
PS- You know how you can tell you have Kings-colored glasses on, you only see the stats that help prove what you already think. No mention that he outrbounded Gay... as a PG (which should never be the case), or that he was significantly more efficient shooting that a C (which again, should never be the case... to use your words).
PPS- Not a single Kings fan would have said that Gay>Lillard before he put on that Kings uniform. I'm shocked that this is even an argument. Kool-Aid for everyone!
You might want to re-read the question of the poll:
Cousins is on a great progression curve, that is very likely to bring him to being top-3 NBA player within 2 years. Gay is entering his prime and looks like above average second-option right now.
Finally bringing stats for long-range bomber when he plays against most inadequate perimeter defense in the League is not logical.
BTW Lillard gets to fight Oladipo at home right now, and 11 point on 12 shots doesn't look as pretty...
You're basically discrediting Lillard for those 16 points, which is ridiculous. The Blazers were awful in the start of the 4th and obviously picked up a sense of urgency when the game looked like it was done. Why would you discredit him those points? It doesn't matter how you start the game, it matters how you finish it. It would be like discrediting McGrady for his 13 points.
He lost in the PG heavy metrics? How many times did DMC and Gay bring up the ball? The Blazers ALMOST won, but they didn't, and that's what really counts. You don't count out a guys effort because it came late in the game. Good basketball players know that the game isn't over till the buzzer goes off. Just because we've seen many times where the kings just give up, with a few minutes left in the 4th, doesn't mean we should accept that.
