Old ESPN article on Evans..

[AriesMar27]

The reason most get annoyed with you is that you state it as a fact that he won't be successful as a PG. Clearly this is not a fact, this is your opinion. I'm sure you must be phrasing your posts like this on purpose to get a rise out of people. Fine, whatever floats your boat. However, those arguing against you in this thread I think mainly take issue with your superiority complex. I would say most are of the opinion that they are willing to give Evans a shot to play PG in the NBA and see if how he develops. What's the percentage chance he will be successful at that position? Who knows, maybe it's really low....but it's certainly greater than zero for a player of his natural talent.

The thing is, success at the PG position is subjective. There are many different styles of play. I suspect you define success at the position as the Rubio type (i.e. the distributor.) I don't think anyone believes Evans is going to turn into that type of player, but that doesn't mean he can't be a successful PG. Fast forward 3 years and the Kings somehow lose in the western conference finals with Evans at the point. I can already see your posts...."if only they had a real PG, they'd be in the finals...."

success at pg wont be him averaging 10 assists a game... i just dont see that happening. its about the flow of the game and his ability to control the tempo. making the right decision with the ball and making those around him better. as a pg that usually means getting them the ball in their spots at the right time. evans can be a great sg... i am not saying he will be a failure in the nba...

evans can make those around him better without being a pg. look at kobe and lebron, he isnt on their level nor do i think he ever will but its possible. his style of play is tailor made for it but it will more than likely cost us martin.

i said that trading webber was a bad move, some disagreed but i was right. i thought that drafting douby was a bad move, some disagreed and thought that he could be the next bobby jackson, i was right again. i wanted rubio because i thought that he was the best pg in the draft. that has yet to be proven or not... im not against having evans on the team, he just doesnt fill a need. that need being a pg to distribute the ball and control the tempo of the game. unless you think evans attacking the basket and trying to get to the line as controlling the tempo.

and yes, i do state my opinion as fact to get a reaction. though i honestly do believe that its going to be true. you are all invited to post in my "i told you so" thread next offseason. im not down on evans, i dont dislike him... i just think that we couldve drafted a better option for pg than a combo guard.... when we had so many options to get the bpa for the position that we need which is rare in the draft.

 

[Warhawk]

and yes, i do state my opinion as fact to get a reaction. though i honestly do believe that its going to be true. you are all invited to post in my "i told you so" thread next offseason. im not down on evans, i dont dislike him... i just think that we couldve drafted a better option for pg than a combo guard.... when we had so many options to get the bpa for the position that we need which is rare in the draft.

Yeah, instead we just got the BPA at any position available when we drafted. And when you suck, which we did last season, that is what you do with a hitgh pick.









Oh, yeah, and we traded down a couple picks in the second round to get a decent PG from Portland we have eyed for a long time to help fill in the PG needs.

 

[bajaden]

outside of martin i dont think we have another player that wants to score that can actually do it. we'll have to see what thompson and hawes do this coming season but i doubt that either one will 20ppg scorers any time soon. evans is our best shot at a 2nd scoring threat on this team. garcia isnt the guy to do it and he is our best bench player. which is a damn shame.

I'm not going to say your wrong, because results speak louder than stats. However, as Bricky has pointed out on several occasions, Martins numbers are a little skewed. He is constantly referred to as a player that scores a lot of points without taking many shots. The flaw in that theory is that if your fouled while taking a shot, and you don't make the shot, your not credited with taking a shot.

Last year Martin was credited with taking 811 shots in 51 games. He also took 527 freethrows. Now there's no way of breaking down the freethrows between 2 freethrows for a shooting foul and a And One after a made shot. So to be fair, I divided the freethrows by 3 to come up with a number for the amount of shot attempts that weren't recorded as shot attempts. I did the same thing for Thompson, Hawes, and Garcia. I've only listed the final results. Anyone that doesn't like that can go do for themself.

Martin: 51 games, 19.3 shots per game with a .420 total shooting %, 24.6 PPG
Thompson: 82 games, 9.9 shots per game with a .497 total shooting %, 11.1 PPG
Hawes: 77 games, 10.9 shots per game with a .466 total shooting %, 11.4 PPG
Garcia: 65 games, 11.1 shots per game with a .444 total shooting %, 12.7 PPG

As you can see. Martin took twice as many shots as Thompson and almost twice as many as Hawes and Garcia. He also has the lowest shooting percentage of the four.

Out of curiosity I decided to compare Martin with other known scorers around the league using the same formula. The only note here is that I used Michael Redd's numbers from the year before since he was injured most of last year.

K. Martin: 19.3 FGA, .420%, 24.6 PPG
K. Bryant: 23.1 FGA, .467%, 26.8 PPG
M. Redd: 19.5 FGA, .442%, 19.5 PPG
R. Jefferson: 17.0 FGA, .439% 19.6 PPG
V. Carter: 18.5 FGA, .437%, 20.8 PPG
K. Durant: 18.9 FGA, .430%, 20.3 PPG
P. Pierce: 16.8 FGA, .457%, 20.5 PPG
R. Allen: 14.2 FGA, .480%, 18.2 PPG
B. Roy: 19.0 FGA, .480%, 22.6 PPG
C. Anthony: 20.6 FGA, .443%, 22.8 PPG
L. James: 23.0 FGA, .489%, 28.4 PPG
D. Wade: 25.2 FGA, .491%, 30.2 PPG
And for the hell of it..
E. Gordon: 13.0 FGA, .456%, 16.1 PPG

Now to be fair to Martin, his low field goal percentage deserves a little slack due to his ankle injury. However, over the last three years there is a small trend to his game. His field goal percentage has slipped each year from three years ago, and his shots per game has gone up at the same time. His injuries have increased over the last three years. None of these things are criticisms. Just facts. There are a lot of reasons for the slipage, such as defenses focusing more on him. Despite all this, he has maintained his scoring average per game.

Getting back to your orginal statement. It could be argued that if Thompson, Hawes, or Cisco took as many shots per game as Martin, they might be capable of scoring 20 pts per game. Too many variables to say for sure. But it is possible...

 

[bajaden]

success at pg wont be him averaging 10 assists a game... i just dont see that happening. its about the flow of the game and his ability to control the tempo. making the right decision with the ball and making those around him better. as a pg that usually means getting them the ball in their spots at the right time. evans can be a great sg... i am not saying he will be a failure in the nba...

evans can make those around him better without being a pg. look at kobe and lebron, he isnt on their level nor do i think he ever will but its possible. his style of play is tailor made for it but it will more than likely cost us martin.

i said that trading webber was a bad move, some disagreed but i was right. i thought that drafting douby was a bad move, some disagreed and thought that he could be the next bobby jackson, i was right again. i wanted rubio because i thought that he was the best pg in the draft. that has yet to be proven or not... im not against having evans on the team, he just doesnt fill a need. that need being a pg to distribute the ball and control the tempo of the game. unless you think evans attacking the basket and trying to get to the line as controlling the tempo.

and yes, i do state my opinion as fact to get a reaction. though i honestly do believe that its going to be true. you are all invited to post in my "i told you so" thread next offseason. im not down on evans, i dont dislike him... i just think that we couldve drafted a better option for pg than a combo guard.... when we had so many options to get the bpa for the position that we need which is rare in the draft.

Just out of curiosity, how many times did you watch him play last year? One game? Two? Did you watch him at all? Now I'm lucky. I use a system down here in Ensenada that I won't go into, but lets just say that if there's a college game being broadcast anywhere, I can watch it if I want to.
I stated during the college season that I thought Griffin was the best big man in the draft and the most athletic big that I had seen in a long time. I had people disagree with me and actually say they thought he was slow and non athletic. I had people say that he was really only 6'6". I heard similiar statements about the athleticism of Hardin. I knew these people were wrong because, depending on how many years a player stays in college, I've watched him play 20 to sometimes 50 games. Not just one game on a lazy saturday afternoon.

Lets be clear about one thing. I was not a big fan of drafting Douby. And, to the best of my knowledge, he never played point guard. He was always a scoring guard. I always thought he was drafted with the idea of him being a defensive stopper at the one or the two. However, they had to find a way to justify his being on the floor offensively. His height and build pretty much leaned him in the point guard direction. When he couldn't handle the ball well enough to even bring the ball up the floor consistantly, his fate was determined. Petrie took a chance and it didn't pay off. Would I have taken that chance? No! But its done and over with, so get over it.

Evans has played point guard before. He played it in highschool. Unfortuantely, in highschool your forced to play positions because of your height and body type, and that can slow down your development at another position. Like the point guard position. He has the skill level to play the position. Its just a matter of what his mentality is. Its a matter of what he thinks, not what you think. If you've played organized sports at any level, you should know that your a victim of your system.

If you had watched Kevin Johnson play at Cal, and unless you watched almost every televised game, you would have had no idea he would turn into the player he became. Because the system he was forced to play in, hid his talents. But every once in a while you would see him break from the rigid system, and for a brief moment take over the game. Of course this was followed by a timeout and a benching.

I have seen this kid play a lot of games. I think he's the real deal. I'm not saying that he'll be the be all, end all of point guards. But I do believe that in three years, or less, he will be the best player on the Kings. That means better than Martin. And just so you know exactly what I mean by that. It doesn't mean he'll necessarily score more than Martin, although he might. It means he plays both ends of the floor. He'll be better defensively. He'll be a better rebounder. He'll be a better passer, a better leader, and maybe a better scorer.

And if you think that its a bad thing for a player we drafted to be better than our suspossed best player, then your thinking is flawed. Because thats what you hope for. That you just drafted someone that will be better than anyone else on your team.

 

[AriesMar27]

I'm not going to say your wrong, because results speak louder than stats. However, as Bricky has pointed out on several occasions, Martins numbers are a little skewed. He is constantly referred to as a player that scores a lot of points without taking many shots. The flaw in that theory is that if your fouled while taking a shot, and you don't make the shot, your not credited with taking a shot.

Last year Martin was credited with taking 811 shots in 51 games. He also took 527 freethrows. Now there's no way of breaking down the freethrows between 2 freethrows for a shooting foul and a And One after a made shot. So to be fair, I divided the freethrows by 3 to come up with a number for the amount of shot attempts that weren't recorded as shot attempts. I did the same thing for Thompson, Hawes, and Garcia. I've only listed the final results. Anyone that doesn't like that can go do for themself.

Martin: 51 games, 19.3 shots per game with a .420 total shooting %, 24.6 PPG
Thompson: 82 games, 9.9 shots per game with a .497 total shooting %, 11.1 PPG
Hawes: 77 games, 10.9 shots per game with a .466 total shooting %, 11.4 PPG
Garcia: 65 games, 11.1 shots per game with a .444 total shooting %, 12.7 PPG

As you can see. Martin took twice as many shots as Thompson and almost twice as many as Hawes and Garcia. He also has the lowest shooting percentage of the four.

Out of curiosity I decided to compare Martin with other known scorers around the league using the same formula. The only note here is that I used Michael Redd's numbers from the year before since he was injured most of last year.

K. Martin: 19.3 FGA, .420%, 24.6 PPG
K. Bryant: 23.1 FGA, .467%, 26.8 PPG
M. Redd: 19.5 FGA, .442%, 19.5 PPG
R. Jefferson: 17.0 FGA, .439% 19.6 PPG
V. Carter: 18.5 FGA, .437%, 20.8 PPG
K. Durant: 18.9 FGA, .430%, 20.3 PPG
P. Pierce: 16.8 FGA, .457%, 20.5 PPG
R. Allen: 14.2 FGA, .480%, 18.2 PPG
B. Roy: 19.0 FGA, .480%, 22.6 PPG
C. Anthony: 20.6 FGA, .443%, 22.8 PPG
L. James: 23.0 FGA, .489%, 28.4 PPG
D. Wade: 25.2 FGA, .491%, 30.2 PPG
And for the hell of it..
E. Gordon: 13.0 FGA, .456%, 16.1 PPG

Now to be fair to Martin, his low field goal percentage deserves a little slack due to his ankle injury. However, over the last three years there is a small trend to his game. His field goal percentage has slipped each year from three years ago, and his shots per game has gone up at the same time. His injuries have increased over the last three years. None of these things are criticisms. Just facts. There are a lot of reasons for the slipage, such as defenses focusing more on him. Despite all this, he has maintained his scoring average per game.

Getting back to your orginal statement. It could be argued that if Thompson, Hawes, or Cisco took as many shots per game as Martin, they might be capable of scoring 20 pts per game. Too many variables to say for sure. But it is possible...

i talked bout this earlier in this thread... martin shot 0.9 more shots per game this past season than last year where he shot like 45% its a one shot difference that dropped his shooting % by 3% had he made 1 more shot per game he would have shot over 49%... that and because he doesnt convert many of his and1 shots they dont get counted as fg attempts...

its unfair to compare the shots bewteen martin against garica, thompson and hawes... garica only had 5 games where he shot the ball at least 15 times... thompson had 2 games where he shot at least 15 times... hawes had 10 but half of them were in the last week of the season...

martin only played in 51 games but shot the ball more than 15 times in more games than all 3 of them combined. the only time one of them shot that many shots were the games where they happened to be hot. like garica's game against the lakers that we actually won. could you see garica shooting 44% and averaging 21 ppg? same thing could be said about thompson and hawes it would be asking too much of them.

 

[Chupacabra]

Im pretty sure the people who doubt Evans's ability to play pg are the people who have a preconceived stereotype for what a pg is. Some seem to have it stuck in their head that a pg is strictly limited to someone that is a distributor. There are plenty of guys in the league that look to score first and are able to involve their teammates once they break the defense down. I dont think its fair to attribute Evans minor turnover problem to him being a "combo guard" instead of acknowledging that hes 19 years old. Id say 90% of 19 year old guards are turnover prone. I think you could only make the case that Evans will struggle if Evans wasnt such a tremendous talent that wasnt so highly regarded as a future star by so many people in basketball.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Im pretty sure the people who doubt Evans's ability to play pg are the people who have a preconceived stereotype for what a pg is. Some seem to have it stuck in their head that a pg is strictly limited to someone that is a distributor. Their are plenty of guys in the league that look to score first and are able to involve their teammates once they break the defense down. I dont think its fair to attribute Evans minor turnover problem to him being a "combo guard" instead of acknowledging that hes 19 years old. Id say 90% of 19 year old guards are turnover prone. I think you could only make the case that Evans will struggle if Evans wasnt such a tremendous talent that wasnt so highly regarded as a future star by so many people in basketball.

Man, you can't talk sense to some people. I've been fruitlessly trying this for the past few weeks. AM27 is a more knowledgeable basketball expert than one of the greatest coaches in college basketball in Calipari. It's almost like he can predict the future. He KNOWS Reke will never succeed as a pg. So just bow down, the future has been predicted. We are all just homers who know nothing about basketball. Or reason either, apparently

 

[fnordius]

Calipari took his woeful Memphis team and turned them into a top seeded team by doing what again? Oh yeah, 'calling Reke out at practice, telling him that he was going to be the pg'.

Ummm, that "woeful Memphis team" was winning 70% of its games before Tyreke was playing PG. Just sayin'.

 

[bajaden]

i talked bout this earlier in this thread... martin shot 0.9 more shots per game this past season than last year where he shot like 45% its a one shot difference that dropped his shooting % by 3% had he made 1 more shot per game he would have shot over 49%... that and because he doesnt convert many of his and1 shots they dont get counted as fg attempts...

its unfair to compare the shots bewteen martin against garica, thompson and hawes... garica only had 5 games where he shot the ball at least 15 times... thompson had 2 games where he shot at least 15 times... hawes had 10 but half of them were in the last week of the season...

martin only played in 51 games but shot the ball more than 15 times in more games than all 3 of them combined. the only time one of them shot that many shots were the games where they happened to be hot. like garica's game against the lakers that we actually won. could you see garica shooting 44% and averaging 21 ppg? same thing could be said about thompson and hawes it would be asking too much of them.

I'm not sure I follow your logic here. I think the point I was trying to make is that Martin certainly scores a lot. No one is disputing that. What I'am disputing is that, if your were to count in all the shots that aren't counted that become freethrows, he actually shoots almost as much as all the other big scorers in the NBA. He just happens to do more of it from the three throw line than most of them.

You admit that he takes a lot more shots than Thompson, Hawes, and Gracia. My question is, how many points would any of them score if they took the same amount of shots? I don't think its a reach by any measure of the imagination that to think, with improvment in their games, that Hawes or Thompson couldn't average close to 20 points a game if they took as many shots a game as Martin.

 

[bajaden]

Ummm, that "woeful Memphis team" was winning 70% of its games before Tyreke was playing PG. Just sayin'.

They were struggling though. They were an entirely different team once Evans took over the point. He wasn't always pretty, but he got the job done. Guess what 70% gets you in the NCAA championships....

 

[AriesMar27]

Im pretty sure the people who doubt Evans's ability to play pg are the people who have a preconceived stereotype for what a pg is. Some seem to have it stuck in their head that a pg is strictly limited to someone that is a distributor. Their are plenty of guys in the league that look to score first and are able to involve their teammates once they break the defense down. I dont think its fair to attribute Evans minor turnover problem to him being a "combo guard" instead of acknowledging that hes 19 years old. Id say 90% of 19 year old guards are turnover prone. I think you could only make the case that Evans will struggle if Evans wasnt such a tremendous talent that wasnt so highly regarded as a future star by so many people in basketball.

the fact that he isnt a prototypical pg or much of a pg at all is the reason why he is turnover prone... not his age. rubio is 18... chris paul was 20 when he was drafted 4th over all and his a/to ratio was fine.... same goes for deron williams who was 21. tj ford was 20 and his a/to ratio wasnt that bad and he is a horrible shooter... i think of a single player to compare evans to in terms of pg play because he doesnt play like a pg. if you can think of a player be my guess...

wades a/to rario was 1.40 his rookie season... that ranks him at 155th in the nba his rookie season thats over all in the nba and 42nd as a sg in the nba... this is dwayne wade we are talking about.

lebron's a/to ratio his rookie season was 1.70... thats 116th in the nba and 16th at sf behind luke walton and our own rodney buford and john salmons at the time.

both wade and lebron played pg thie rookie season, we kings fans all got to see lebron play his first nba game as a pg. what makes you guys so sure that evans will be able to do what wade and lebron f'n james couldnt do? what has evans done to make you so confident that he will do the impossible? lebron james couldnt do it. dwayne wade couldnt do it.... but tyreke evans will?

 

[AriesMar27]

I'm not sure I follow your logic here. I think the point I was trying to make is that Martin certainly scores a lot. No one is disputing that. What I'am disputing is that, if your were to count in all the shots that aren't counted that become freethrows, he actually shoots almost as much as all the other big scorers in the NBA. He just happens to do more of it from the three throw line than most of them.

You admit that he takes a lot more shots than Thompson, Hawes, and Gracia. My question is, how many points would any of them score if they took the same amount of shots? I don't think its a reach by any measure of the imagination that to think, with improvment in their games, that Hawes or Thompson couldn't average close to 20 points a game if they took as many shots a game as Martin.

the same could be said about kobe or wade... he is credited for taking 20+ attempts a game what about the ones that dont count? that and most of the top scorers are major bangers... they throw it down a lot more than martin could ever dream of, they are taking higher % shots. wade going for a dunk is a lot different than martin shooting a mid range jumper or any jumper. because martin isnt trying to throw it down on anyone. kobe, wade and lebron make it a daily occurence. thats why their shooting % is so much higher. its the same reason why bigmen usually have higher fg% than most guards they arent better shooter, its usually quite the opposite.

 

[fnordius]

They were struggling though. They were an entirely different team once Evans took over the point. He wasn't always pretty, but he got the job done. Guess what 70% gets you in the NCAA championships....

Struggling? The prior year is outlined in a giant footnote, taken from Wikipedia's page on the Tigers. Under Calipari they had been dominating their conference for years, had just won their 3rd consecutive conference title, had just been ranked #1 in the NCAA, and had made it to the finals. They then started the season with Evans at SG, and won 7 of their first 10 games. They switched Evans to being the nominal PG (although, by all accounts, it changed nothing except to have Evans start out with the ball in his hands, since it usually ended up there anyway), and continued to dominate their opponents.

I have a really hard time with characterizing an NCAA finalist team with a 70% win record as either "woeful" or "struggling." Instead, how about we call them "better than our franchise has been in 94% of its seasons."

--------
The 2007–08 Memphis Tigers men's basketball team achieved a No. 1 ranking in the Associated Press basketball poll in January 2008, the school's first No. 1 ranking in the poll in twenty-five years, and went on to win their third straight Conference USA title on March 15, 2008. Led by First-Team All-American Chris Douglas-Roberts and future No. 1 overall lottery pick Derrick Rose, the team received a No. 1 seed in the 2008 NCAA tournament and defeated No. 16 seed Texas-Arlington in round one, No. 8 seed Mississippi State in round two, and No. 5 seed Michigan State in the Sweet Sixteen. Memphis convincingly defeated No. 2 seed Texas in the Elite 8 round to advance to the school's first Final Four since 1985. Following this win, Memphis went on to beat No. 1 seed UCLA on April 5, 2008, advancing to the National Championship game on April 7, 2008. With this win, Memphis became the first team in NCAA history to achieve 38 wins in a single season.[4] After holding a nine point lead with two minutes and twelve seconds left in regulation, the Tigers lost to Kansas in the National Championship in overtime by the final score of 75–68, becoming the second NCAA runner-up team in Memphis history. [5]

 

[Chupacabra]

the fact that he isnt a prototypical pg or much of a pg at all is the reason why he is turnover prone... not his age. rubio is 18... chris paul was 20 when he was drafted 4th over all and his a/to ratio was fine.... same goes for deron williams who was 21. tj ford was 20 and his a/to ratio wasnt that bad and he is a horrible shooter... i think of a single player to compare evans to in terms of pg play because he doesnt play like a pg. if you can think of a player be my guess...

wades a/to rario was 1.40 his rookie season... that ranks him at 155th in the nba his rookie season thats over all in the nba and 42nd as a sg in the nba... this is dwayne wade we are talking about.

lebron's a/to ratio his rookie season was 1.70... thats 116th in the nba and 16th at sf behind luke walton and our own rodney buford and john salmons at the time.

both wade and lebron played pg thie rookie season, we kings fans all got to see lebron play his first nba game as a pg. what makes you guys so sure that evans will be able to do what wade and lebron f'n james couldnt do? what has evans done to make you so confident that he will do the impossible? lebron james couldnt do it. dwayne wade couldnt do it.... but tyreke evans will?

lol so are you saying that younger players arent typically more turnover prone than older players? Shenanigans!

 

[AriesMar27]

lol so are you saying that younger players arent typically more turnover prone than older players? Shenanigans!

no i am saying that trying to force a player to play pg who isnt or shouldnt play pg is a waste of time and even the best players in the game today couldnt do it. what makes you think that evans will be able to do it?

can anyone here answer that question? what has evans done to convince you that he will be a good pg? if he were drafted by another team and they planned on playing him at pg would you guys still be singing his praise?

 

[mac]

no i am saying that trying to force a player to play pg who isnt or shouldnt play pg is a waste of time and even the best players in the game today couldnt do it. what makes you think that evans will be able to do it?

can anyone here answer that question? what has evans done to convince you that he will be a good pg? if he were drafted by another team and they planned on playing him at pg would you guys still be singing his praise?

If he were drafted by another team I wouldn't even know bout him cos I don't follow college ball. In fact, even though he's on our team I don't know much about him. Majority of the people aren't saying that Evans WILL be successful, they're just saying it's not guaranteed that he won't. The dude hasn't even played a single game yet and you're going around with your "I'm an encyclopedia everything i say is true bow to me and lick my feet" attitude.

Can anyone here answer that question? What has Evans done to convince you that he won't be a good pg?

 

[Chupacabra]

no i am saying that trying to force a player to play pg who isnt or shouldnt play pg is a waste of time and even the best players in the game today couldnt do it. what makes you think that evans will be able to do it?

can anyone here answer that question? what has evans done to convince you that he will be a good pg? if he were drafted by another team and they planned on playing him at pg would you guys still be singing his praise?

What Evans has done to convince me of his ability to play pg is that on the largest stages of basketball he's been on so far he has shined the brightest as a pg. the 27-1 Memphis tigers have shown me this and VSL has shown me this. I think Evans can pull it off because of ball handling ability and size. If Evans were drafted to play pg somewhere else i would be very interested in watching him. Theres a reason all of the NBA draft commentators unanimously said that they thought Evans was the best point guard available. Those commentators are just reverberating the opinions of almost every other front office executive in the league.

 

[VF21]

You know, it really isn't about what Evans has or hasn't done to convince US he's able to play the point. What really matters is that he obviously did something to convince Petrie and TPTB of the possiblity...and from what CruzDude and others said about his performance in the VSL, I think there's more reason to be hopeful than cynical...

 

[fnordius]

Theres a reason all of the NBA draft commentators unanimously said that they thought Evans was the best point guard available.

When I google "best point guard in the 2009 nba draft" (without quotation marks), and look at the results, here's what I find on page 1 of the results:

Bleacher Report, top 5: Rubio, Jennings, Flynn, Curry, Lawson.
Collegehoops.net: Rubio, Jennings, Curry, Teague, Holiday.
Nbadraft.net: Rubio, Jennings, Curry, Flynn, Teague.
Collegebasketballnews.scout.com: Rubio, Evans, Curry, Holiday, Jennings.

So, looking at 4 sites as google serves them up, 3/4 didn't even consider Evans as a PG, and the only one that did, did not consider him the best. You might want to be careful with those sweeping generalities.

 

[AriesMar27]

You know, it really isn't about what Evans has or hasn't done to convince US he's able to play the point. What really matters is that he obviously did something to convince Petrie and TPTB of the possiblity...and from what CruzDude and others said about his performance in the VSL, I think there's more reason to be hopeful than cynical...

did petrie ever say that evans was going to be a pg let alone our starting pg? in summer league didnt thompson start at center? that wont be happening during the regular season unless hawes gets injured. summer league itself is a poor way to judge talent. didnt greene score 40 points in a summer league game last year?

im not doubting his talent just his ability to be a starting pg in the nba. beno started last year and he sucks we all know that he isnt a starting quality pg yet petrie signed him to a long contract based on a season of mediocrity. petrie's judgement of talent is kinda suspect when it comes to pgs not named jason williams whom he ended up trading anyways...

 

[Warhawk]

When I google "best point guard in the 2009 nba draft" (without quotation marks), and look at the results, here's what I find on page 1 of the results:

Bleacher Report, top 5: Rubio, Jennings, Flynn, Curry, Lawson.
Collegehoops.net: Rubio, Jennings, Curry, Teague, Holiday.
Nbadraft.net: Rubio, Jennings, Curry, Flynn, Teague.
Collegebasketballnews.scout.com: Rubio, Evans, Curry, Holiday, Jennings.

So, looking at 4 sites as google serves them up, 3/4 didn't even consider Evans as a PG, and the only one that did, did not consider him the best. You might want to be careful with those sweeping generalities.

He said NBA draft commentators. Not sure if that is true, but your list isn't comprised of what he was discussing.

 

[AriesMar27]

Can anyone here answer that question? What has Evans done to convince you that he won't be a good pg?

his pg play has been suspect his entire life playing against inferior competition and even then he is still insanely turnover prone. that and the long track record of combo guards failing as starting pgs in the nba doesnt help his case either when the player he is most compared to failed at it as well... with superior talent and athleticism.

history is not on his side.... hell, history isnt even in the same building, its down the street watching district 9 in imax and doesnt even know that evans so nearby....

 

[sdballer]

Man, you can't talk sense to some people. I've been fruitlessly trying this for the past few weeks. AM27 is a more knowledgeable basketball expert than one of the greatest coaches in college basketball in Calipari. It's almost like he can predict the future. He KNOWS Reke will never succeed as a pg. So just bow down, the future has been predicted. We are all just homers who know nothing about basketball. Or reason either, apparently

If he was such a can't miss pg prospect, why didn't Memphis take advantage of that all season by starting him at point. It took concerns about the teams performance to play him at not his natural position.

Also I can't understand how easily the opinions of almost all the top experts, who seem to think Evans has a bright future just not at pg. Doesn't that carry as much if not More weight that anything else.

 

[AriesMar27]

He said NBA draft commentators. Not sure if that is true, but your list isn't comprised of what he was discussing.

espn.com draft page doesnt even have him listed as a pg either. nba.com doesnt have a position ranking for the draft... just tons of dumb videos that dont say much.

 

[bajaden]

Struggling? The prior year is outlined in a giant footnote, taken from Wikipedia's page on the Tigers. Under Calipari they had been dominating their conference for years, had just won their 3rd consecutive conference title, had just been ranked #1 in the NCAA, and had made it to the finals. They then started the season with Evans at SG, and won 7 of their first 10 games. They switched Evans to being the nominal PG (although, by all accounts, it changed nothing except to have Evans start out with the ball in his hands, since it usually ended up there anyway), and continued to dominate their opponents.

I have a really hard time with characterizing an NCAA finalist team with a 70% win record as either "woeful" or "struggling." Instead, how about we call them "better than our franchise has been in 94% of its seasons."

--------
The 2007–08 Memphis Tigers men's basketball team achieved a No. 1 ranking in the Associated Press basketball poll in January 2008, the school's first No. 1 ranking in the poll in twenty-five years, and went on to win their third straight Conference USA title on March 15, 2008. Led by First-Team All-American Chris Douglas-Roberts and future No. 1 overall lottery pick Derrick Rose, the team received a No. 1 seed in the 2008 NCAA tournament and defeated No. 16 seed Texas-Arlington in round one, No. 8 seed Mississippi State in round two, and No. 5 seed Michigan State in the Sweet Sixteen. Memphis convincingly defeated No. 2 seed Texas in the Elite 8 round to advance to the school's first Final Four since 1985. Following this win, Memphis went on to beat No. 1 seed UCLA on April 5, 2008, advancing to the National Championship game on April 7, 2008. With this win, Memphis became the first team in NCAA history to achieve 38 wins in a single season.[4] After holding a nine point lead with two minutes and twelve seconds left in regulation, the Tigers lost to Kansas in the National Championship in overtime by the final score of 75–68, becoming the second NCAA runner-up team in Memphis history. [5]

I don't think I was talking about the prior year. They were one of the best teams in the nation the prior year. And I didn't use the term struggling. Someone else did. I was simply talking about how they were playing. I happened to watch some of their games. Yes they were winning at a 70% rate, but they weren't playing well, which is to be expected after losing Rose and Roberts etc.

 

[bajaden]

the same could be said about kobe or wade... he is credited for taking 20+ attempts a game what about the ones that dont count? that and most of the top scorers are major bangers... they throw it down a lot more than martin could ever dream of, they are taking higher % shots. wade going for a dunk is a lot different than martin shooting a mid range jumper or any jumper. because martin isnt trying to throw it down on anyone. kobe, wade and lebron make it a daily occurence. thats why their shooting % is so much higher. its the same reason why bigmen usually have higher fg% than most guards they arent better shooter, its usually quite the opposite.

Go back and read my comparison post. I used the same formula on Kobe and Wade and all the others as I did Martin. So the shot comparison is fair and accurate. As to how they scored their points. Its immaterial to this disscussion. Who cares whether they threw it down of shot three pointers till hell froze over. They took a certain amount of shots and scored a certain amount of points. If Wade or any of them can score as many points as Martin, and do it at a higher field goal percentage, am I susposed to penalize them because they dunked the ball more than Martin..

Of course most big men shoot at a higher percentage.And yes, its because they take higher percentage shots. But your arguing that one of our bigs can't score 20 points a game because why? Because he takes higher percentage shots? Who cares if he's not a good outside shooter if he's not taking outside shots. I fail to see your logic.

 

[bajaden]

no i am saying that trying to force a player to play pg who isnt or shouldnt play pg is a waste of time and even the best players in the game today couldnt do it. what makes you think that evans will be able to do it?

can anyone here answer that question? what has evans done to convince you that he will be a good pg? if he were drafted by another team and they planned on playing him at pg would you guys still be singing his praise?

Because he's played the position before!!!!! What is it about that, that you don't understand? He played it in highschool. He played it in college. Its not as though he's being asked to do something he hasn't done before. I've given you plenty of examples of players are screwed up by the system they played in, but you won't even acknowledge any of it. You just sit there and keep saying the same thing over and over again and ignore everything anyone else says as though their irrelevant.

Here's the difference between you and I. You bring up points, and I come back and address those points. You simply ignore what I say and go right on making the same point again and again. There's an old saying. Some people listen, but they don't hear. I'm hearing you, but your not hearing me. So whats the point of my continuing?

 

[fnordius]

He said NBA draft commentators. Not sure if that is true, but your list isn't comprised of what he was discussing.

Okay, so if we go to NBA.com's 2009 Consensus Mock Draft page, we have a dozen mocks by people like Givony (draftexpress), Ford (EPSN), Thomsen (SI), Deveney (Sporting News), etc. Twelve out of twelve put Rubio above Evans in the draft, regardless of which teams they had picking which guy. I don't think that anyone disputes that Rubio is a PG, or that most of those guys are "commentators." I can therefore only conclude that either all of those guys think that NBA managers are idiots who will pick the wrong PG first, or that they did not think Evans was the best PG in the draft.

If someone would like to try to present evidence that "NBA draft commentators unanimously said that they thought Evans was the best point guard available," well, have at it.

 

[63royals]

A good NBA team needs to have someone to initiate the offense. If you have a classic point guard, that's his role. The alternative is to have more than one player do it, like the Kings of a few years ago. Some of the not-a-true-point-guard criticisms I'm hearing about Tyreke could have been aimed at Mike Bibby, because he wasn't primarily responsible for initiating the offense.

If the Kings are going to get better, this is one of the areas they need to improve in. Tyreke, while clearly not a classic point guard, can provide some of this role. His #1 priority must be the turnovers. I want to see
if Francisco and Omri can play some point forward like Hedo did with the Magic, and whether Spencer or Jason could do the Princeton high-post center thing. I also want to see what Sergio and Beno can contribute.

A backcourt of Tyreke and Kevin is going to be a huge matchup problem for teams with small guards. The big question is whether the Kings can cover the role of initiating the offense with that backcourt. As to how they'll do -- I don't know. I'm going to wait until they play some games before forming an opinion.

 

[AriesMar27]

uh... bibby is a real pg. he wasnt trigger happy until webber was traded. he can run a offense without a problem, most people had problems with his defense... not his offense or his ability to run one.