nickmcclure
Bench
quoted for truth.
of course with all the trades that went down today 12/18 kingz dont take any action
- Thread starter Tha Kali Way
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quoted for truth.
They beat NY, who was also beasting on weak teams and lost to cleveland last night as well. They did not beat Dallas however. The only impressive win Miami had in this stretch was the road victory against Utah. But again, the regular season doesn't mean anything. Look at Cleveland's and Boston's regular seasons last year and tell me how that turned out. I'm just pointing to problems that they have and still haven't proven they can consistently overcome against good, intelligent teams. We'll see if they pull it off in the playoffs, which I dont think will happen. Also, let's not forget that Tyreke+Carmello <<<<<<<< LeBron+Wade.
RookieOfTheDay
Starter
That's primarily because they weren't a bad team but a mediocre team getting picks in the teens and 20s. Bottoming out may be the best thing that's happened to the team since signing Divac and getting Webber because it's gotten them back to back top 5 picks and probably another one on the way..
Also, I think at this point we should be a bit more careful with assuming that Reke is going to be a superstar and making that an axiom. He still has a lot to learn and overcome before that happens, and it's not just his plantar fasciitis.
I measure the success of a team by expectations vs. results. If Miami is eliminated in the first round of the playoffs then their season will be considered worse than ours even if we end up with only around 13 wins. Miami put themselves in the perfect position to fail. They had a championship parade before they even played one game together and made ridiculous promises like that 7 championships crap. When you get LeBron and Wade, anything less than winning a ring is considered a failure, and they are on the fast track to that failure of a season. If they end up not winning any championships (which is a possibility) this will be one of the biggest flops in NBA history.
In our case, if we looked like a team and managed to sneak into the 8th seed, our season would've been considered one of the best in the NBA, even though a lot of teams finished ahead of us. If we got Carmello and kept hyping Tyreke as a superstar and made a first round playoff exit or not even made the playoffs (which is also a real possibility if that pairing doesn't work) then that would be just as much a failure as our current season.
nickmcclure
Bench
Touche, failure on my part they did lose to Dal but that was their last loss...3 weeks ago. hey have since beaten everyone including NOH, UTAH and ATL. Tyreke+Carmelo is probably not as good as Wade + Lebron but name a better tandem in basketball.
RookieOfTheDay
Starter
That's an interesting way to look at but I'd still take the gamble on Evans and Melo on the same team without even thinking about it.
nickmcclure
Bench
Eh I don't completely agree. We should be better by now:
2007 10th pick
2008 12th pick
2009 4th pick
2010 5th pick
nickmcclure
Bench
True, but I think it would be to his benefit to have another threat on the team. He takes most of the defensive adversity.
nickmcclure
Bench
I think you're one of the many NBA fans who's really demonizing the Heat. If they make the playoffs at all they are instantly better than us. They have doubled our wins in a single streak...
In terms of individual talent, there's probably none, but in terms of basketball efficiency and practicality you have Kobe+Gasol, Boston's big 4, Rose and Noah, etc. In the past, of course, there was Stockton+Malone, Magic+Kareem, etc. Basically one ball dominant perimeter superstar and one superstar big-man who naturally doesn't expect to run the offense but gets fed by the team, is a lot more efficient than having two ball-dominant perimeter superstars, even if they are more talented than the other balanced duos.
The one exception to the big+small rule was Jordan+Pippen, but that worked because Pippen was great at playing off the ball, and willingly accepted the natural hirarchi in which he played second fiddle to Jordan. Oh and they had Rodman to defend the paint and grab every rebound within 30-feet range...
RookieOfTheDay
Starter
We probably would be if Hawes hadn't turned out to be sort of a bust. It's too bad we can't travel back in time because they could have used the Hawes pick for Arron Brooks or Rodney Stuckey.
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RookieOfTheDay
Starter
Haha, when you look at it that way it's pretty damn funny...and pathetic.
nickmcclure
Bench
Hawes was a complete bust. This video http://www.nba.com/video/channels/top_plays/2010/12/18/20101218_top10.nba/?ls=iref:nbahpt2 is basically highlights of players clowning on Hawes and it's from a single game@!
Where did I even imply that they are not better than us? Of course they are better. We are the worst team in the NBA. And they are for sure one of the best, but they are far from meeting their own expectations. People were talking about breaking the 72-win record and winning 7 consecutive championships, and now they are celebrating a regular season victory over the mother-frickin Knicks as if they just saved Darfur... All I'm saying is in this whole ridiculous race to acquire the best talent in the free agency frenzy they forgot that to win in basketball you also need to have a balanced team. They have great talent, but they also have huge holes that they are far from fixing.
But no, of course we are not even in the same league as they are. They are still theoretically championship contenders. Our best case scenario coming into this season was sneaking into 8th place, and that was a big stretch, as reality taught us. I'm not sure we will even win 11 games the entire season...
nickmcclure
Bench
It's "heirarchy" lol but yeah I mean Melo and Tyreke would certainly be an experiment. At the same time though everyone deemed the Tyreke/Martin backcourt as a failure before Martin was even rehabed. That was considered a failure with what less than 10 games? And we finished with 17 wins or so?
Damnit I wasn't sure how to spell it and was waiting for the speller to correct me but it didn't...
nickmcclure
Bench
To be fair I know what you mean but I think the expectations placed on them were unreasonable. Also, if we were to win 25 games and exceed expectations and Miami loses in the Eastern Conference Finals I will not consider it a success.
RookieOfTheDay
Starter
That's entirely possible with the way the schedule is in January and February. Brutal! There's a stretch of like 10 games where they basically play the 10 best teams in the league one after the other. I'm not looking forward to that stretch.
nickmcclure
Bench
PS Rookieoftheday, Asaf and I are the only true Kings fans left lol.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Thank you for pointing that out, I suppose the rest of us are just bandwagoners then
He would, but maybe not in the way you might first imagine.
First off, let's be realistic about the going rate for Carmelo Anthony. It looks like it's something in the neighborhood of Derrick Favors, Devin Harris, and about 3 first round picks. Well, we've got an equivalent to Derrick Favors - he's called DeMarcus Cousins and he was drafted two slots after him (alternately, you could slide Tyreke in his place, I'm sure the Nuggets would be OK with that, too). Then, instead of Devin Harris let's say either Donte or Omri. We'd have to throw in Garcia for salary reasons. And we'd need to give up our draft picks in 2011, 2013, and 2015.
OK, where does that leave us?
Beno/Tyreke/Carmelo/Thompson/Dalembert, with Landry and Omri off the bench. The rest of the bench (Jeter/Head/Taylor/Jackson/Whiteside) is kind of scrubby. Carmelo helps, but we're already in a big hole at 5-20. Let's say Carmelo is so good that we go .650 the rest of the season. That would get us 42 wins and 40 losses...probably still on the outside looking in for a playoff slot in the West.
Then over the summer, Carmelo leaves in free agency for New York. After missing the playoffs in our only Carmelo season, we are now left with:
Beno/Tyreke/Omri/Thompson/Whiteside with Jeter on the bench. That's what's left. And 2 draft picks in the next 5 years.
What a disaster. If we're patient for just this year, we have Tyreke, we have Cousins, we have another probable top-5 talent (Kyrie Irving?, Perry Jones?, Harrison Barnes?), and we have a pretty darn decent (and young) supporting cast. That's a heck of a lot better than Tyreke and half of that supporting cast and nothing else.
So what I'm trying to say is, that while getting Carmelo would be very nice, you can't just wave a magic wand and trade an expiring contract and a few practice court basketballs for Carmelo or a player of his stature. Reality, in the form of a high asking price, gets in the way. And unless that Carmelo-level player comes with a 3-4 year contract attached, we can't afford the price. Window shop all you like, but we have a much better chance of getting a Carmelo-level player with our lottery pick this year than in trade, and if we do, we can pair him with 'Reke AND Cousins. That's our route, however much it hurts.
nickmcclure
Bench
yeah I guess so, that's too bad for you guys
/sarcasm
nickmcclure
Bench
You're extrapolating like 2 seasons ahead here but that's a reasonable example. Alternatively though we could possibly trade Landry/Casspi/Garcia/Dalembert's awesome expiring for Carmelo. Go 50-32, make the playoffs, advance to the 2nd round and save our team. Who knows really?
We will not go 50-32 this season even if we trade for Kobe, LeBron, Carmelo, Wade, and Dwight Howard, and bring Durant off the bench...
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
What if we resurrected Wilt Chamberlain and de-aged Michael Jordan?
Boogie-havoc
Bench
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Justin Williams.
RookieOfTheDay
Starter
To get 50-32 they'd have to go 45-12 for the rest of the season. I'm pretty certain that line up could go 45-12. They might even go 50-7.
mcsluggo
Starter
the kings don't need more "future" at the moment, they are chocked up with future and potential. They ALSO don't need a "shot in the arm"... even if it is somebody that can come in and fill out stat sheets and eeke out a few more wins through sheer will or desire.
what they need is one or two veterans with calm on the court leadership and good fundementals. They basically need Vlade in his second-to-last season (or so). Perhaps a Grant Hill or Andre Miller type of character (although, perhaps those two are still arguably TOO GOOD for the role i envision).
hell.... they need Paul Newman from slapshot
edit::: I didn't say it very well... but what I think the kings need is some veteran presence, BUT some that takes the form of leadership, without smothering the rising talent on the kings roster. Right now the King's talent doesn't seem to be growing or maturing or expressing itself very well. This is a failure of leadership, and i am not AT ALL impressed with the coaching right now. But this could be mitigated by an on-the court leader and calming influence--- someone with enough of a combination of history (of winning) and charisma to play shepperd for these little children that currently are just bleating around on the court like they lost their parents in the play are at the mall.
the kings don't need to win much right now, but they DO need to win ENOUGH to maintain drive, and the desire to strive. they really need leadership in an awful way.
---AND--- it makes me feel dirty just talking about it, because I think "leadership" is the most abused word by punits in the english language. THe gobs and volumes written about leadership in business books that are required reading in MBA programs across the land are of less use than the power rankings Slim uses to cleanse his colon each week. but the kings DO need a solid, steadying, calm influence on teh court.... and they don't have enough of it (beno and Dally? Garcia? they all seem largely unsuited to the role)
what they need is one or two veterans with calm on the court leadership and good fundementals. They basically need Vlade in his second-to-last season (or so). Perhaps a Grant Hill or Andre Miller type of character (although, perhaps those two are still arguably TOO GOOD for the role i envision).
hell.... they need Paul Newman from slapshot
edit::: I didn't say it very well... but what I think the kings need is some veteran presence, BUT some that takes the form of leadership, without smothering the rising talent on the kings roster. Right now the King's talent doesn't seem to be growing or maturing or expressing itself very well. This is a failure of leadership, and i am not AT ALL impressed with the coaching right now. But this could be mitigated by an on-the court leader and calming influence--- someone with enough of a combination of history (of winning) and charisma to play shepperd for these little children that currently are just bleating around on the court like they lost their parents in the play are at the mall.
the kings don't need to win much right now, but they DO need to win ENOUGH to maintain drive, and the desire to strive. they really need leadership in an awful way.
---AND--- it makes me feel dirty just talking about it, because I think "leadership" is the most abused word by punits in the english language. THe gobs and volumes written about leadership in business books that are required reading in MBA programs across the land are of less use than the power rankings Slim uses to cleanse his colon each week. but the kings DO need a solid, steadying, calm influence on teh court.... and they don't have enough of it (beno and Dally? Garcia? they all seem largely unsuited to the role)
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