[OBIT] Former Enron CEO Kenneth Lay dead

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

USA Today.com: Kenneth Lay dead at 64

I'm surprised that this wasn't mentioned here before; it's current events rather than politics, so it ought to be fair game.

 

[StevenHW]

It seems that more people are mourning the passing of the Pillsbury Doughboy instead of Ken Lay! But that makes sense; at least the Doughboy never swindled anyone's life savings and pension!

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I'm quite aware of his involvement in the Enron scandal. I didn't say anything about mourning his loss, I'm just reporting the news.

There's already too much fluff in the Lounge, IYAM; a couple of non-political news stories aren't going to kill anybody.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Can we post conspiracy theories?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

:: shrugs ::

As long as you stay on topic and don't get contentious, I don't care what you post.

 

[PixelPusher]

USA Today.com: Kenneth Lay dead at 64

well...that's one way to keep yourself out of the slam.

 

[VF21]

Why are you surprised it wasn't posted? It's not like he had a lot of fans or anything...

Okay, he's dead. That's pretty much about it for me...

What's there to discuss? Fond memories? Favorite films? Contributions to mankind?

Sorry, Slim, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

I'd rather talk about the demise of the Pillsbury Doughboy.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Why are you surprised it wasn't posted?

Because it's current events; we used to have non-fluff threads in the Lounge, and I miss that.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Well, there is the issue of his death before sentencing resulting in the near certainty that his conviction will now be overturned and his family/heirs will get to hold onto ~40-50 million dollars that would be owed in restitution.

I love a good conspiracy theory as much as anyone but odds are he just kicked the bucket, the stress of going from a life of luxury to going to jail, even if its "club fed" would probably do in any 60-something with a lingering heart issue.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Well, there is the issue of his death before sentencing resulting in the near certainty that his conviction will now be overturned and his family/heirs will get to hold onto ~40-50 million dollars that would be owed in restitution.

I love a good conspiracy theory as much as anyone but odds are he just kicked the bucket, the stress of going from a life of luxury to going to jail, even if its "club fed" would probably do in any 60-something with a lingering heart issue.

Actually the Feds filed claims on much of Lay's wealth to cover fines and damages so it is likely Lay's heirs will now be embroiled in lenthy court battles aganst the Feds.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Actually the Feds filed claims on much of Lay's wealth to cover fines and damages so it is likely Lay's heirs will now be embroiled in lenthy court battles aganst the Feds.

Those fines will all be tossed out with the conviction. Supposedly the way it works is because a) he plead not guilty and b) had yet to be sentenced he c) could not begin his appeals process. As a result of those 3 criteria - conviction thrown out. A Stanford law professor was on the news talking about this and said the law is 100% crystal clear on this.

There will be plenty of civil suits though.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Those fines will all be tossed out with the conviction. Supposedly the way it works is because a) he plead not guilty and b) had yet to be sentenced he c) could not begin his appeals process. As a result of those 3 criteria - conviction thrown out. A Stanford law professor was on the news talking about this and said the law is 100% crystal clear on this.

There will be plenty of civil suits though.

Although I am no expert on federal law my understanding is that the conviction can stand and that the Federal claims will likley remain inplace. Since Lay is dead I don't think any civil suites can be filed against him personally now. Regardless the funds will no doubt be tied up for a very long time. I just hope that SOME of it comes back to those of us who were riped off.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

There's something I didn't know before...

Does that circumstance only occur if the defendant pleads not guilty? If he'd pled guilty, would it still be overturned? And why does death allow for the overturning of a conviction, anyway?

 

[VF21]

I think it's because the process was not completed. He was convicted but not sentenced. Because he's dead, his right to appeal is denied to him. Thus I think the situation is the same had he died during the trial.

 

[GoGoGadget]

Hmmm... where's law-boy when we need him?

 

[VF21]

I was thinking exactly the same thing - well, except for the "law boy" part.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Huh. You (try to) learn something new every day.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

According to the lawyer and the talk show guy if he had plead guilty the conviction would stand so it was strictly a result of the combination between his original plea and the sentencing not taking place.

I know wikipedia isn't definitive, but there is already a section on this which site the legal precedent in the 5th Court of Appeals (Lay's district):

Death and abatement of conviction

While vacationing in Colorado on July 5, 2006, Kenneth Lay died from coronary artery disease. The Pitkin Sheriff’s Department confirmed that officers were called to Lay’s house in Old Snowmass, Colorado, near Aspen at 1:41 AM MDT. He was taken to Aspen Valley Hospital, where he was pronounced dead at 3:11 AM MDT.

Since Lay died prior to exhausting his appeals, his conviction may be considered abated under precedent in the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals, the Federal appellate court governing the district where Lay was indicted.[10] Civil suits are expected to continue against Lay's estate. However, claimants may not seek punitive damages against a deceased defendant, only compensatory damages. [11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Lay

 

[HndsmCelt]

Interesting. I had heard a "legal expert" on the radio yesterday claim that the conviction would likley stand and that civil suits would be very difficult, but it seems that lots of other experts are saying the exact opisit...
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/fn/4029304.html

I guess thats what I get for being lazy and trusting radio instead of doingmy own reading on this one.

 

[VF21]

Since Lay died prior to exhausting his appeals, his conviction may be considered abated under precedent in the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals, the Federal appellate court governing the district where Lay was indicted.[10] Civil suits are expected to continue against Lay's estate. However, claimants may not seek punitive damages against a deceased defendant, only compensatory damages. [11]

Interesting wording, especially the "may be" part. At least it appears the civil suits to regain some of the lost funds can continue.

 

[BigWaxer]

A little off topic:

Anyone watch Enron: the smartest guys?

As far as the death - no comment. I don't have one nice thing to say and anything I want to say is inappropriate since he has passed.

 

[PixelPusher]

A little off topic:

Anyone watch Enron: the smartest guys?

As far as the death - no comment. I don't have one nice thing to say and anything I want to say is inappropriate since he has passed.

Yes, I saw that documentary. Aside from the technical and financial details, it's a great expose on the culture and psychology of corporate executives; it's basically one big "Revenge of the Materialistic, Narcissistic, Hyper-competitive Nerds".

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

... that got caught...