NYDaily: Kings to Anaheim?

The entire city of Sacramento cannot agree on anything.

And it's not a matter of choosing between an arena and critical functions. That's the most often stated misconception around.

Houston and San Antonio both managed to get new arenas built. If I remember correctly, both times the team owners had to pretty much make it clear they would be forced to look elsewhere if deals weren't agreed to ...

It's a matter of realizing IMHO that this cannot be put off any longer. Arco isn't getting newer, it's not going to become more profitable, AND the area is losing more concerts, major attractions, etc. because Arco simply isn't state of the art enough to fulfill the wide variety of needs a new arena could serve.
 
VF21 said:
I think you're reading it the wrong way, BigWaxer. I don't think the Maloofs want to leave. I think they want the City Council and everyone else to either **** or get off the pot, however.

The Maloofs, I'm quite sure, do NOT want to pick up and move a successful franchise. But at what point are they going to have to make it very clear to the City of Sacramento that it WILL happen unless the august body known as the City Council (yes, that is DRIPPING with sarcasm) faces reality and HELPS to get a realistic arena proposal out there?

I am NOT going to point the finger of blame at the Maloofs for this in any way, shape or form. That "honor" goes directly towards Heather Fargo - she who didn't even want to keep the Kings here in the first place and has changed her position more often than some people change their socks - and the elected officials of the city of Sacramento. Their lack of true vision for the town I have loved most of my life is appalling...and if they don't do something, it could be the beginning of the end for our Kings.

And don't kid yourself. If the Kings are forced to leave because they cannot come to terms with the (insert whatever deragatory term you like to use for the City Council here), we will NOT get another team. Bottom line? Where would they play?

It's about a venue. It's about a city growing by leaps and bounds and a City Council with about as much vision as the "three blind mice." Only there are more than three of them...
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VF... I see it that way then I see it from the other side of the fence. What are the Maloof's doing to keep/make/drum up support for an arena? Nothing, it's not going to build itself. Thats the part that bothers me the most. If they so wanted to be here I think we would hear a lot more discussion about it. At least on the public front it seems like its more a "we need a new arena get it done city council". I think that if they wanted to truely stay they would be a lot more aggressive. Of course then I flip to the other side and think maybe they are trying to do this in a way which won't offend/insult anyone that lives here. IMO the Maloofs if they truely want to stay here need to be a LOT more aggresive.

I think they could easily influence the politics of the discussion if they were more public about it. I think this is such a popular/hot button issue that they could influence future elections. I don't blame Fargo alone I think there is enough blame to go around to all the council members including the Maloofs.
 
You don't KNOW what the Maloofs have been trying to do to get an arena deal done. You're jumping to a conclusion that is, I think, too common but also erroneous.

Most big businesses DON'T conduct most of their negotations in public.

Look at it this way: This little tidbit in the NY Daily News could well be the tip of the iceberg. They may be deciding to become more aggressive and testing the waters...

This thing could end up getting pretty bad before it's all done...and I STILL hold the City Council responsible. The Maloofs were blindsided in at least ONE council meeting; who knows what else has happened we haven't heard about?

It's not about pointing fingers of blame at this point, however. It's gotten past that.

IMHO it's now to the point where people - especially those who live in Sacramento proper - have to make their feelings known.

Call your city councilman. Tell him/her you support the idea of a new arena for Sacramento - NOT just the Kings - and you'll be supporting candidates who think the same way.
 
I agree VF... :) I don't know what the Maloofs are doing and I think that is part of the problem. THIS entire arena issue is a very POLITICAL process and the people need to know what is going on.

IMO if this is the real crunch time, if the Maloofs really want to stay here then now is the time to be getting all the support you can from the public. Lay it out on the line and get the people behind you. If you want to pressure politicains you do it at the ballot box or by that threat they may be voted out of office. Simply waiting for them to be voted out is not going to get it done.

Like you said maybe this media clip is just the start, they are going public little by little to get the word out. I would not agree with this approach as it will turn voters off not on.

One thing is for sure. THIS will get very very ugly, for one look were we live. Nothing gets done/accomplished here in CA. The Giants were all but moved into a new stadium in Florida and at the last minute were saved. I think this is going to be a last minute deal.

I hope the Maloofs are being honest with us, I have no reason to think they are not as of right now. Just for my sanity I would like them to be more open about it. I understand how big business works but this is one time where they have to play the politics. Which I think they have been pretty poor at so far.
 
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captain bill said:
You also have to consider Kings fans come from all over NorCal, not just Sacramento proper, which does really put an unfair burden on the Sac taxpayers as opposed to the fanbase and those who use the arena. I honestly think if it came down to the Kings or public education, I'd side with education. The city can recognize the good of the Kings and try to keep them in town, but not at the cost of critical functions. Which means there is a more creative solution needed, maybe state funding, getting more sponsors on board, something. But arguing that the entire city of sac wants this is wrong.
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Education money comes from the State, not the city, so that isn't even an issue. No arena does not create any money for schools or anything else. There is not a pot of money sitting there that we get to spend. If people really care about money for those things, then they need to go public about a proposal to raise taxes (or some other revenue source) for those purposes.

Saying no to an arena does nothing in the absence of other actions. Personally, I think these people are against more taxes for anything. You don't see these people indignant about no arena-we need money for other civic things proposing any raises in taxes for those things. I guess they truly think you can get something for nothing. Gain with no pain. :rolleyes:

Do Sacramentans really think no other city in the country has the needs Sacramento has? How do those cities still manage to do civic improvements? Geez, Stockton and Fresno built new arenas with no rich sport s team owners. Sacramento has never spent one cent on an arena or stadium. Heck, even dirt poor Wesr Sacramento built a very nice baseball stadium, when Sacramento failed miserably.

As I said in the other thread I don't know why nobody talks about a multi-jurisdictional sports authority. Except that other cities so far just say what's in it for them. There aren't many things left anymore than can unite citizens across a city and create civic pride. At their best a sports team can do that.

And beyond the Kings, why don't people care if Sacramento has an entertainment venue worthy of a city the size of Sacramento that is also the state capital. Even if the Kings leave, what will we do then for events that now come to Sacramento. (Altho fewer and fewer are booking Arco, because its so physically in economically lacking.) I don't know what ever happened to any sense of community pride.
 
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kennadog said:
I think these people are against more taxes for anything.
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While I agree with the princeple of your post KD, I must say I am one that says NO NEW taxes. I hate paying for the taxes we currently have, I would not be for any new tax.

There has to be a way that this arena can get funded without tax dollars. If it is tax dollars it needs to be done were we dont get an increase
 
kennadog said:
Education money comes from the State, not the city, so that isn't even an issue. No arena does not create any money for schools or anything else. There is not a pot of money sitting there that we get to spend. If people really care about money for those things, then they need to go public about a proposal to raise taxes (or some other revenue source) for those purposes.

Saying no to an arena does nothing in the absence of other actions. Personally, I think these people are against more taxes for anything. You don't see these people indignant about no arena-we need money for other civic things proposing any raises in taxes for those things. I guess they truly think you can get something for nothing. Gain with no pain. :rolleyes:

Do Sacramentans really think no other city in the country has the needs Sacramento has? How do those cities still manage to do civic improvements? Geez, Stackton and Fresno built new arenas with no rich sport s team owners. Sacramento has never spent one cent on an arena or stadium. Heck, even dirt poor Wesr Sacramento built a very nice baseball stadium, when Sacramento failed miserably.

As I said in the other thread I don't know why nobody talks about a multi-jurisdictional sports authority. Except that other cities so far just say what's in it for them. There aren't many things left anymore than can unite citizens across a city and create civic pride. At their best a sports team can do that.

And beyond the Kings, why don't people care if Sacramento has an entertainment venue worthy of a city the size of Sacramento that is also the state capital. Even if the Kings leave, what will we do then for events that now come to Sacramento. (Altho fewer and fewer are booking Arco, because its so physically in economically lacking.) I don't know what ever happened to any sense of community pride.
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Very well said. I might add that in a recent Sacramento City Council meeting the frigging City Council solicited ideas from the audience as to how to spend $72 million (I think that was the amount) that the City simply had not yet allocated. They frigging asked for "ideas". They considered expansion of the bike trail and improvements on all the City parks.
 
Well BigWaxer, it doesn't necessarily mean it has to be new taxes or maybe only slight taxes. I mean if everyone had to pay an extra $2 a year, would that be so horrific? Would it really not be worth it?

As to the article about Anaheim, can anybody say they are shocked that the Maloofs are at least exploring other options? They have been extremely patient. In my opinion, more patient than 99 out of 100 owners would have been. After all there are cities with brand new free arenas just waiting for them. A lot of folks in here are cyncial, but I do not believe the Maloofs want to move the franchise. This is a great fan base and they know it. Besides, if they had wanted to move the Kings, they could have done that as soon as they bought the team.

The Maloofs have never used the threat of moving the team as a bargaining chip. But they don't have to make a threat. Its a financial fact. They are a business, not a charity. They will go where the franchise can thrive. The Kings have been in the red more years than not, the arena is in need of increasing and increasingly expensive repairs. Apparently a lot of shows, events are bypassing Sacramento now. How do they even maintain Arco with less and less revenue, let alone afford a competitive team here? No businessman is going to keep throwing money into a losing business just because we want to them do it. When they are gone and will contribute nothing to a new arena, then the City will have to pay for one all by themselves. Just like Stockton, Fresno, Memphis, Kansas City, etc.
 
BigWaxer said:
While I agree with the princeple of your post KD, I must say I am one that says NO NEW taxes. I hate paying for the taxes we currently have, I would not be for any new tax.

There has to be a way that this arena can get funded without tax dollars. If it is tax dollars it needs to be done were we dont get an increase
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I forgot to add that I have no problem with that sentiment. That is how you feel.

What I don't like is the hypocrites that say no arena, because we need money for this list of other things and they wouldn't support money for that list of other things either, if it meant an increase in their taxes. They cloak themselves in all this civic concern about education, police or whatever, but they are just flat out anti-tax.
 
I just think it sucks that Sac. has the best NBA fans and they want to move the team. That's no way to treat loyal fans. I'm not blaming the Maloofs but it's just not right. Even though I'm not in Sac. it just wouldn't be right to have them somewhere else. the Anaheim Kings? ugh!:mad: Politics should not be in sports. Unfortunately it is though and that's what it boils down to.
 
kennadog said:
I forgot to add that I have no problem with that sentiment. That is how you feel.

What I don't like is the hypocrites that say no arena, because we need money for this list of other things and they wouldn't support money for that list of other things either, if it meant an increase in their taxes. They cloak themselves in all this civic concern about education, police or whatever, but they are just flat out anti-tax.
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First off Education funding does not come from the local level. It is a State issue and that's what my property taxes go to so people who say we don't want an arena because our schools are in shambles need to look elsewhere as they are barking up the wrong tree. Second, for the life of me I can't understand why no one is bringing up the airport/travel tax.....People who travel know that when you rent a car, stay at a hotel, etc.... in some cities you are actually helping to pay for their new arena. Houston and Portland are prime examples of this. Hello???? Anyone listening?????
 
Ryle said:
First off Education funding does not come from the local level. It is a State issue and that's what my property taxes go to so people who say we don't want an arena because our schools are in shambles need to look elsewhere as they are barking up the wrong tree. Second, for the life of me I can't understand why no one is bringing up the airport/travel tax.....People who travel know that when you rent a car, stay at a hotel, etc.... in some cities you are actually helping to pay for their new arena. Houston and Portland are prime examples of this. Hello???? Anyone listening?????
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The car rental tax is a very viable source of income. The problem is that most of the cars are rented at the airport and not in the city of Sacramento. The airport is County of Sacramento. While the city council has taken it's lumps on this, and rightly so, the county supervisors are trying to keep their names out of the public eye. IMO, they need to get a task force made up of both the city and the county. Both have a stake in this.
 
Ryle said:
First off Education funding does not come from the local level. It is a State issue and that's what my property taxes go to so people who say we don't want an arena because our schools are in shambles need to look elsewhere as they are barking up the wrong tree. Second, for the life of me I can't understand why no one is bringing up the airport/travel tax.....People who travel know that when you rent a car, stay at a hotel, etc.... in some cities you are actually helping to pay for their new arena. Houston and Portland are prime examples of this. Hello???? Anyone listening?????
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Essentially what I said up above in an earlier post. That doesn't mean that the anti-arena people don't keep using that as an excuse. They do and a lot of people fall for it. The bottom line is a lot of these people wouldn't vote for a new tax or any kind of government financial involvement in ANYTHING, if there is the remotest chance it might cost them something as citizens. They just hide behind saying we need all these other things, like they'd actually support new funding for those things.:rolleyes:

We can't even get the city council to work together. To work with other jurisdictions is the impossible dream. Yet, I still keep dreaming it.
 
kennadog said:
We can't even get the city council to work together. To work with other jurisdictions is the impossible dream. Yet, I still keep dreaming it.
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Good points but I think the City Council is the main problem. I loved all of their comments in the Bee about our levee problems and the continued growth in areas that will be completely underwater if the Levee's can't hold.
 
Merdiesel said:
BS. The day the Kings move from sac is the day Im not a kings fan anymore. Sacramento is one of the best basketball towns in the League. There not going anywhere.
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I'm guessing some of us will remain kings fans no matter where they might end up.
 
Wert said:
I'm guessing some of us will remain kings fans no matter where they might end up.
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I think it might end up being easier for Kings fans who aren't in the Sacramento area to continue to be their fans if they move. It's like Slim - he has no vested interest in where the team actually calls home.

On the other hand, if the team does eventually leave, I think there may be some who just cannot bear to watch them play with another city's name on the uniforms.

Who knows? Hopefully it won't come to that.

I have to wonder, however, how many Kansas City folk still follow the Kings...
 
Ryle said:
Good points but I think the City Council is the main problem. I loved all of their comments in the Bee about our levee problems and the continued growth in areas that will be completely underwater if the Levee's can't hold.
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Well, that's not new with this city council. They've been building in areas like that since gold rush days. ;)

If the Kings leave, I'd likely still be a Kings fans, as I don't have any other team I'd rather root for. And I love that the Kings have fans from all over the world. But some joy would be gone for me in not having the Kings be my "home town" team. Aplace where they are what is talked about on the sports page, radio and local TV. Where any time, I might actually bump into someone from the team. Where I drive a short drive and actually see my team in person. That represents my home every where they go with "Sacramento" on their jersey.

I will make a shocking confession....I grew up in the LA area.:eek: Yes, I sort of followed the Elgin Baylor, Jerry West Lakers. But I was really a rabid Dodgers fan growing up. I moved north in high school and ended up in Sac my senior year in HS. Until the Kings came to Sac, I'd forgotten the special joy of actually having a "home town" team to root for. Of actually having people know where your city is. (Most people in the US would give me a semi-blank stare, when I said Sacramento.)

Yes, I'd still be a Kings fan, but it would break my heart if they left Sacramento.:(
 
ShatteredVision said:
Does Sac have any good corporate ties that can help finance...?
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I still don't know why the Indian Casino's and Southwest Airlines haven't been approached. Boath turn a profit. Southwest is one of the few airlines that continues to turn a profit. Southwest Airlines Areana baby. Their headquarters is right here in sac. My dad has been saying this for a while now. Don't know why the people that matter aren't approaching these 2 options. You could probably have the majority of the funding between Southwest and an Indian Casino. Then the last little bit kicked in by the Maloofs like they said they would. They said they would put in around 20% if the funding got that close to what they need.
 
DocHolliday said:
I still don't know why the Indian Casino's and Southwest Airlines haven't been approached. Boath turn a profit. Southwest is one of the few airlines that continues to turn a profit. Southwest Airlines Areana baby. Their headquarters is right here in sac. My dad has been saying this for a while now. Don't know why the people that matter aren't approaching these 2 options. You could probably have the majority of the funding between Southwest and an Indian Casino. Then the last little bit kicked in by the Maloofs like they said they would. They said they would put in around 20% if the funding got that close to what they need.
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Southwest is based out of Texas. They are no longer a "corporate partner" of the Kings as of this year.
 
Sacramento has very few large corporations. There are a gawd-awful number of State, federal, and local government employees in the region. That alone explains the lack of corporate money and the propensity for local government to exhibit little concern for professional sports. Most big sports franchises have viable corporate sponsers. Even the large corporations that have facilities here (Southwest, Intel, etc.) in the Sacramento area have corporate offices in major cities elsewhere.

Sacramento has a lot of small and medium-sized businesses, but I assume that most of them are focused on marketing, production, and cash-flow. I would have to assume that most people around here do not have much discretionary income. Prospective sponsers might be listed on official contributors to the Sacramento Symphony and similar cultural venues. Perhaps Teichert, Sutter Hospital, Raleys, and the cluster of high-dollar legal firms serving all the government agencies and politicians.
 
quick dog said:
Sacramento has very few large corporations. There are a gawd-awful number of State, federal, and local government employees in the region.
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Me being one of them.;) It is the state capital. But, yes, not much corporate base. Not just because of so much government here (and there used to be 2 air force bases and an army depot), but because Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego all made much more sense for businesses, being on the coast with major ports.

The only draw for businesses to Sacramento is cheaper land, salaries and housing. And that only became more important in recent years. Unfortunately, a lot of really big coporations would still rather be located in those places, because the general quality of life and amentities is higher there. Those are more prestigious locations and the other businesses you want to conduct business with are there, too.
 
Ryle said:
Southwest is based out of Texas. They are no longer a "corporate partner" of the Kings as of this year.
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Didn't they used to have their corporate headquarters here in Sac?? I could have sworn they did. Well that still leaves Indian Casinos. Cache Creek Arena. Jackson Ranchoria Arena. I don't care what you name it, just build it.
 
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