RookieOfTheDay
Starter
I would say The Bobcats are as talented as The Kings, not more. Basically, Wallace/Jackson are pretty close talent wise to Evans/Cousins (at least right now) and both teams fall off sharply after their top 2 players.
[Game] Nuggets @ Kings 01/06/11 Game Thread
- Thread starter Asaf
- Start date
I would say The Bobcats are as talented as The Kings, not more. Basically, Wallace/Jackson are pretty close talent wise to Evans/Cousins (at least right now) and both teams fall off sharply after their top 2 players.
Boogie-havoc
Bench
I think you're mixing 'Ability' with 'Talent' imo.
Right now they have more ability then us, but talent-wise it's a no brainer in our favor.
Right now they have more ability then us, but talent-wise it's a no brainer in our favor.
RookieOfTheDay
Starter
I don't know what you're basing "talent" on. I honestly think a lot of you are overrating players not named Cousins or Evans.
He wouldn't have been making fun if his name were up there. Funny how that works.
steelevt
All-Star
what was inaccurate that was said about them? i remember reggie and cwebb saying we were young, cousins is talented but needs to mature, and tyreke was good but has been slow this year and mentioned the plantar fascitis. webber even mentioned talking to coach carill about how talented cousins is, and many other things that we all see as kings fans. and with webber being able to talk to many kings staff and being an ex king, i think his perspective is as close to ours, the fans, than many others yet not over the top like homers jerry and grant. the only thing i might have disagreed with was when webber said landry was really good and just needed a true pg to set him up with the pick and roll.
We can't ignore the fact that Landry played really well for Houston. I don't know if the lack of a true PG is his problem, but obviously there's a gap between his performance in Adelman's system and his performance in our (non) system.
steelevt
All-Star
you're right, landry did play well for houston. but i saw him more of a scrappy player that got a lot of putbacks. maybe someone like nash or cp3 could turn him into a great player but just any other "true" pg might make him a little better but not as good as webber was making it out to be. but i added that disagreement to be nitpicky. my point overall was that i enjoyed reggie and cwebb overall and didnt think their analysis had many inaccuracies. and i assume most would agree. i just didnt understand why someone would prefer jerry and grant over what i saw tonight on tnt. but everyone has their opinions.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
That is indeed "ability'.
Talent is an absolute. ITs there from the moment you enter the league, even before. Its the possibility of greatness, not greatness itself.
Ability is where you stand today. The portion of your overall talent you have realized.
current ability + future potential = overall talent
The Kings are CONSIDERABLY more talented than the Bobcats. They may not have their ability today, but their talent level leaves them in the dust, and most of it is as of yet, unrealized. This BTW is why its better to be a young 25win team than an old 35 win team. The old team has maximized its talent, and 35 wins is as good as its ever going to get. The young team has not maximized its talent, and has years of improvement ahead of it whereby it can far exceed the paltry totals of the veteran mediocrities.
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I guess when RookieoftheDay sees a 5 year old with mad handles and can make pretty good shots they're still less talented than a 55 year old fat guy who just learnt to hit a 3 playing recre ball with fellow seniors.
RookieOfTheDay
Starter
I'm more impressed by talent that's actually manifested than by "potential". I don't care how talented you're supposed to be, if you can't turn that talent into being a consistently good NBA player then it means nothing. So, when I say team A is more talented than team B, I'm basing it on actual talent being utilized, not on theoretical talent or potential.
Dr. Spaceman
Bench
You don't even know how true that actually is, since apparently he thinks that the dynamic duo of old *** Tracy McGrady and old *** Ben Wallace is more talented than whatever we're throwing out on the court. Their combined averages of 9 ppg and 10 rebounds are straight killing it this year. Almost a double-double!
RookieOfTheDay
Starter
Yeah, because Greene and Dalembert's combined 10 points and 8 rebounds per game really shows how scary talented The Kings are. Or how about Landry and Garcia's combined 19 points and 7 rebounds per game? That's some freaky talent there!
Dr. Spaceman
Bench
Now that's just not fair, because Landry has severe rebound allergies, and you know that. Be more sympathetic.
RookieOfTheDay
Starter
That must be hell dealing with rebounding allergies and passing allergies at the same time. Poor guy.
Few people would argue about how good the team is, but talent isn't "actual talent being utilized". If today Tyreke puts up 10 points and an assist and tomorrow he puts up 20 points and 2 assists would you say that Tyreke became more talented overnight?
Your terminology is funny.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Then you're not talking about talent at all. You are saying nothing less pedantic then Team A is currently better than Team B, which is a big "gee, really?" tour "talent" evaluation process is roughly as complex as looking at the standings every morning.
Not only that it means that you are intentionally completely blind to the future, which is in fact the entire trick to any business, and especially the NBA.
RookieOfTheDay
Starter
If it's so simple, then why haven't you, or anyone else articulated just what you're referring to when you say "talent"? If it has nothing to do with production, then what does it have to do with? Potential? Let's define the terms here.
RookieOfTheDay
Starter
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I have articualted exactly what it is a few posts ago.
And its nto simple. In fact being able to spot it is THE core seperator between the muggles and the people who get it. We aren't all born equal at everything. Some people have the ability ot beomce far better at some things then others, no matter how hard the others work at it. Now in the end can that "other" outperform the gifted person if the "other" works his *** off while the gifted one hangs out in clubs taking hits? Sure. Doesn't change who is the more talented individual. Doesn't change the fact that if the talented individual gets his stuff together he can blow away the hardworker no matter how hard the guy works. That's life. It ain't fair, but its the way it is.
RookieOfTheDay
Starter
I misunderstood, I thought you were saying it's simple. But now, I think you're misunderstanding me. I get that someone who works harder can at times outperform someone with more talent. What I don't get, is what you're seeing in this team that leads you to believe that they have such a wealth of talent. If you're seeing that, then you define talent differently than I do. Not that I'm saying they're untalented. Talent in the NBA is a given, you don't get in the NBA without some talent. I'm just not seeing what other folks are seeing that causes them to believe this Kings team is not one of the bottom 3 or 4 teams in the league talent wise.
RookieOfTheDay
Starter
Basically, it breaks down like this to me.
Evans and Cousins, obviously both highly talented.
Then.......there’s the rest of the team
Casspi - very talented shooter
Thompson - Solid overall talent but nothing that jumps out at you
Greene - See Thompson
Landry - Good scorer but nothing spectacular
Dalembert - Very talented shot blocker but not very talented otherwise
Garcia - Solid talent, nothing special
Udrih - See Garcia
Jeter - One of the more talented guys on the roster after Evans and Cousins, actually. Hope he stays with The Kings
Whiteside - Obviously talented but haven’t really seen him play enough to gage his overall talent
Taylor - Don’t know anything about him
Jackson - Lower tier NBA talent
Head - See Jackson
I’m assuming you’d not agree with my assessments. So, how about articulating what you think is so talented about each player.
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FaStRmAn
Starter
Kings has a transcendent game last night. I am very excited by the way Tyreke was able to fulfill the role of staring player while other players were able to just make the contributions necessary to help the Kings deliver a can of whoopazz on the Nuggets! All of the Kings players, Sans Dante Greene, had a very productive game against a good Nuggets team with one bonefide allstar and a few very solid role players. The Kings showed their dominance inside in spite of Nene and his weak efforts to guard the rim. I was plesently surprised how well our front court played and when Tyreke has it going along with Cisco from the perimeter, the Kings become a difficult team to beat. The other contributions of players like Beno, Casspi, and even Dalembert were key in the victory against a far more talented foe. If Tyreke is back to normal or even better learning from last years run, the Kings days look brighter and brighter every game. But the results MUST show up in the win loss column for ANYTHING to matter. Cousins has played like the 3rd or 4th best Rookie in the league so far. His domination under the rim requires double teams by EVERY team the Kings have played. It is only a matter of time before he is starting again. But Cousins conditioning leaves a lot to be desired. With proper nutrition, exercise, and desire, Cousins could become something of a poor mans "Dream Shake" Wilkins. The Bottom line with this team is they are playing decent with the least amount of paid talent in the league with the lowest payroll. If they can continue to improve with the pieces they have, it will strengthen their position when and after the CBA and potential lockout that should last less time than the NFL lockout. With 20-30 million under the cap to spend, the Kings are in a fantastic position to make a move at a playoff spot next season. ONE more lottery ticket, preferably a dead eye shooter at the 3 or the 2 guard, and some Key vets to help flesh out this roster and the Kings will become a very good team in the near future. I think that Petrie deserves an accommodation for the way he negotiated our way out of the cap hell they were in after the Webber contract fiasco. One that the Maloofs created. Lets hope that moving forward the Kings are able to better deal with their free agents, because they obviously have no problems in the draft whatsoever. Just need a piece or 2 more and the Kings are gonna be on FIRE!!! GO KINGS
RookieOfTheDay
Starter
Paragraphs are our friends.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
And I can't helpn you there. You can either see it, or not.
RookieOfTheDay
Starter
Do I have to take the red pill to see it?
Jalee209
Prospect
The main thing that stood out to me, other than the defense, was how fast we ran our offense. Usually, Tyreke would just walk the ball up the court and leave us with not much time left on the clock to run anything. This game was different. I taped it and watched it over again and we initiated our offense very quickly. I think that help confuse the Nuggets and also gave us much more options when our first play didn't work.
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