Nocioni to spain?
- Thread starter dbfish
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I found this article.
http://www.hoopsnotes.com/2010/04/andres-nocioni-a-real-madrids-objective/
All it says is that Real Madrid has contacted Nocioni's agent to let them know that they would be interested in Nocioni "IF" he were to decide to leave the NBA.
The biggest barrier being 2 years and 13.5 million dollars left on his contract.
I doubt the Kings would buy him out. So, he would either have to agree to forfeit the rest of his contract, or Have Real Madrid pay to Nociono a buyout settlement, so that the Kings wouldn't owe anything.
Other than that what would be the malooofs motivation unless they could buy him out for a million or 2?
http://www.hoopsnotes.com/2010/04/andres-nocioni-a-real-madrids-objective/
All it says is that Real Madrid has contacted Nocioni's agent to let them know that they would be interested in Nocioni "IF" he were to decide to leave the NBA.
The biggest barrier being 2 years and 13.5 million dollars left on his contract.
I doubt the Kings would buy him out. So, he would either have to agree to forfeit the rest of his contract, or Have Real Madrid pay to Nociono a buyout settlement, so that the Kings wouldn't owe anything.
Other than that what would be the malooofs motivation unless they could buy him out for a million or 2?
I can't imagine anyone buying out the entire 13.5 mil contract, and I certainly don't see Nocioni simply walking away from that kind of money. Buy outs usually end up being paid out over a number of years and counting against your cap for a longer period of time, although a smaller amount.
Of course the best case senario would be to trade him to another team. He can play the game, even if he does play on the edge at times and passes the ball only when triple teamed, and sometimes not even then. But he does play hard on both ends of the court. I'm sure he could be of value to a team. Its just a bad time with a new CBA looming, and not knowing what the new rules are going to be.
Of course the best case senario would be to trade him to another team. He can play the game, even if he does play on the edge at times and passes the ball only when triple teamed, and sometimes not even then. But he does play hard on both ends of the court. I'm sure he could be of value to a team. Its just a bad time with a new CBA looming, and not knowing what the new rules are going to be.
If, for example, there is a lockout in 2011, Nocioni wouldn't get paid at all for that year and would only get 1/2 of his remaining contract. At that point I'm quite sure he would walk away from his contract with us to play in Europe so he could earn something that year and get back to enjoying his career. You have to wonder if that scenario starts to affect buyouts as this next year progresses.
You know, when it comes to Real Madrid, financial sense sometimes need not apply. This is a team that once paid out around $100 millions to buyout two soccer players. They have unlimited funds because they borrow from the local government and the gov has a habit of forgiving the debt.
Bball does not generate the same kind of passion as soccer in Spain and Real would never pay $100 millions to buyout basketball players; but $13.5 mil? Hmm..... I don't know if Real is willing to pay $13.5 mil or somewhere close to that amount but I think it is not a deal breaker for them - if they in fact, really do like Noc. I'm a little skeptical of Real's interest, but if there's one team who is crazy enough to buyout Noc, it's Real Madrid.
If their eternal nemesis Barcelona is kicking butts then it surely adds pressure for Real to do something, and last time I checked Barca signed Rubio and the team is playing pretty good. So maybe this is Real's counter move. I guess we'll see.
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Well I'll concede to your knowledge when it comes to european teams. I wonder if more than one team can be involved in a buyout. By that I mean could the Kings and Real Madrid both share in the buyout, thereby giving Real madrid more incentive to get involved. I hope I worded that where it makes sense.
Noc is still a good player, and he can be a contributer to a playoff team. Comparing him to Kenny Thomas is unfair- he's just at a point in his career where he's a season vet and should be playing with other vets, not stuck behind gets who aren't as good as he is (right now) but are getting playing time because they're part of the core and the future and he's not.
Someone above mentioned buying him out for around $4 mil- I think that would probably work, assuming Spain wants him bad enough. I could also see a playoff team trading to pick him up this offseason, but from here on out it's all downhill. We need to get rid of him fast- I feel for him now but I get the feeling if he sticks around another year things are gonna be a lot worse.
Someone above mentioned buying him out for around $4 mil- I think that would probably work, assuming Spain wants him bad enough. I could also see a playoff team trading to pick him up this offseason, but from here on out it's all downhill. We need to get rid of him fast- I feel for him now but I get the feeling if he sticks around another year things are gonna be a lot worse.
I'm kind of split on my opinion about Noc. Part of me wishes he would just shut his mouth, quit talking to sanish newspapers, and just go out and do what he's paid to do. He's making a lot of money, and could help by being a solid veteran presence. Although, thats only if he wants to.
The other side of me agrees with Noc that this situation just sucks for him. He's not old enough to be relegated to the end of the bench, and be put on a roster only for his veteran presence. He has another 3-5 years of decent basketball ahead of him. He should want to be on a contender. You don't want to waste your last productive years of beasketball stuck on a team that barely won 25 games. I also don't think it's fair to Noc the way Westphal substitutes him in and out of games. If he's going to start, start him in the 3rd also. It's a slap in the face to start him, and then replace him at the start of the 3rd with Omri, when Omri shot 2-11. Not a knock on Omri, Ijust don't think it's fair to Noc.
Something has to give here. Either Noc has to completely commit to the rebuild, or he has to be shipped out. This situation, if it doesn't change going into next year, isn't good for either the Kings or Noc. Honestly, I can see why Noc won't commit to the rebuild. He's not in our future plans.He's also not washed up like KT was. So do the right thing, and move him, or buy him out.
The other side of me agrees with Noc that this situation just sucks for him. He's not old enough to be relegated to the end of the bench, and be put on a roster only for his veteran presence. He has another 3-5 years of decent basketball ahead of him. He should want to be on a contender. You don't want to waste your last productive years of beasketball stuck on a team that barely won 25 games. I also don't think it's fair to Noc the way Westphal substitutes him in and out of games. If he's going to start, start him in the 3rd also. It's a slap in the face to start him, and then replace him at the start of the 3rd with Omri, when Omri shot 2-11. Not a knock on Omri, Ijust don't think it's fair to Noc.
Something has to give here. Either Noc has to completely commit to the rebuild, or he has to be shipped out. This situation, if it doesn't change going into next year, isn't good for either the Kings or Noc. Honestly, I can see why Noc won't commit to the rebuild. He's not in our future plans.He's also not washed up like KT was. So do the right thing, and move him, or buy him out.
Definitely something can be worked out. It may not be possible for Real to pay part of the Kings' buyout but Real can help the Kings by making up the difference in Noc's salary.
Say Noc is willing to take $10 mil to walk away and Real is willing to pay $7 mil to help with the buyout plus a salary of $6 mil for two years. Then a wink-wink deal can be made on all three sides where Noc and the Kings agree to only a $3 mil buyout and then Real offer Noc a $13 mil contract. Noc still get the same amount of money going to his pocket.
And I think for tax purpose, it's to Noc's advantage to take a lesser buyout in USA and make up the difference via a larger salary in Europe because it's not unusual for an European team to pay a player's taxes and I expect Noc to get that type of star treatment from Real. Plus other incentive like free housing and free cars and Noc could come out ahead money-wise in Europe.
Then again, it all depends on if Real Madrid really do like Noc that much.
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Say Noc is willing to take $10 mil to walk away and Real is willing to pay $7 mil to help with the buyout plus a salary of $6 mil for two years. Then a wink-wink deal can be made on all three sides where Noc and the Kings agree to only a $3 mil buyout and then Real offer Noc a $13 mil contract. Noc still get the same amount of money going to his pocket.
And I think for tax purpose, it's to Noc's advantage to take a lesser buyout in USA and make up the difference via a larger salary in Europe because it's not unusual for an European team to pay a player's taxes and I expect Noc to get that type of star treatment from Real. Plus other incentive like free housing and free cars and Noc could come out ahead money-wise in Europe.
Then again, it all depends on if Real Madrid really do like Noc that much.
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Europe doesn't have superstars. Or they are few in between.
In the scope of NBA players that started their careers in Europe, Drazen Petrovic was a superstar, Sabonis was a superstar, Toni Kukoc was borderline superstar. If Bodiroga ever played for the Kings he would be in this category as well.
Players like Ginobili, Scola, Nocioni (and loads of others) were "mere" stars.
That is my rant for today
In the scope of NBA players that started their careers in Europe, Drazen Petrovic was a superstar, Sabonis was a superstar, Toni Kukoc was borderline superstar. If Bodiroga ever played for the Kings he would be in this category as well.
Players like Ginobili, Scola, Nocioni (and loads of others) were "mere" stars.
That is my rant for today
Please excuse this ignorant question, but why is it when we were talking about drafting Rubio while he was still under contract with a European team the burden of buying out the contract fell to the Kings, but with a European team interested in one of our players under contract, the burden of buying him out again falls to the Kings?
Well, European contracts tend to be structured differently than NBA contracts. In Europe a lot of players (or at least the ones deemed likely to bolt to other teams or other leagues) have buyouts written into their contracts. In order to escape the contract, the player has to pay the buyout fee, then the contract is terminated. In the case of Rubio, we would not have been paying the majority of his buyout, because by NBA rule, NBA teams can only contribute $500,000 to a buyout. None of the burden would necessarily have fallen on us (it's on the player) and we could only help a limited amount by rule.
In the currently hypothetical Nocioni case, there is no buyout in the contract, but the Kings and Nocioni could mutually agree to terminate the contract through a buyout. The value of the buyout would be less (perhaps substantially less) than the remaining value on the contract, but we would pay it.
They're just completely different situations. In the Nocioni case, neither party is happy but we owe Nocioni a lot of money, and he can either be unhappy and get the money, or sacrifice some of that money to increase his happiness. In the Rubio case, Rubio may have been unhappy (because he could have been making more money) but his club was perfectly happy. They have no incentive to give him up, outside of the monetary incentive of the buyout, so Rubio would have to pay to get out of his contract.
In the currently hypothetical Nocioni case, there is no buyout in the contract, but the Kings and Nocioni could mutually agree to terminate the contract through a buyout. The value of the buyout would be less (perhaps substantially less) than the remaining value on the contract, but we would pay it.
They're just completely different situations. In the Nocioni case, neither party is happy but we owe Nocioni a lot of money, and he can either be unhappy and get the money, or sacrifice some of that money to increase his happiness. In the Rubio case, Rubio may have been unhappy (because he could have been making more money) but his club was perfectly happy. They have no incentive to give him up, outside of the monetary incentive of the buyout, so Rubio would have to pay to get out of his contract.
My point was that it is rare for a player to dominate in Eurolegue.
Stat wise you usually get a player from the bottom teams to show on top of the charts. The reason being usualy is that the top 6-8 teams have 10 to 15 times more money than others. This means that they buy the best players and their rooster is consequently an "all star" rooster. The best players then play 20-25 minutes and in this time they can not dominate statistically.
So if I thranslate that to NBA, Nocioni was like one of the main guys in Pistons when they won championship.
I hope this makes sense.
Stat wise you usually get a player from the bottom teams to show on top of the charts. The reason being usualy is that the top 6-8 teams have 10 to 15 times more money than others. This means that they buy the best players and their rooster is consequently an "all star" rooster. The best players then play 20-25 minutes and in this time they can not dominate statistically.
So if I thranslate that to NBA, Nocioni was like one of the main guys in Pistons when they won championship.
I hope this makes sense.
It does actually.
Big stats essentially come from "best player on a bad team" syndrome. Good teams are all composed of a bunch of good players earning big bank so no single guys gets the minutes or featured role to put up those numbers.
I do wonder what would happen if a true superstar level talent arrived in Europe though. Let's say next summer the NBA labor dispute causes a season long lockout, and LeBron decided to go play in Europe for the year (a complete nightmare for the NBA BTW and why they can't really afford to be as hardline as they are making noises about being). In any case, here comes LeBron. Even if he lands on Real Madrid, somehow I doubt he gets 20-25 minutes splitting time with Jorge Garbajosa. Unless the coach is an idiot of course.
Lack of cap/balance definitely changes things, but I think its also significnat that for the past 15 years many/most of the truly elite would-have-been Euro superstars end up going to the NBA at a young age before they have fully established themselves. If Dirk has never come over and had stayed in Europe its hard to see him getting 20-25 min splitting time no matter what team he ended up on.