Nocioni & Hawes Traded for Dalembert

[fnordius]

I searched "Philidelphia 76ers forum" and I viewed their comments:

They are very pleased- they are happy dalembert is gone for good, they don't stand him their. 76ers fans writing their that spencer hawes is already better than sammy (Can someone please explain this?) and they got another good player- noc.
They are really coming down on dalembert, saying he is terrible, bad iq, and doesn't know his left or right.

I think this trade is good for us because hawes and noc aren't really my favorites on the team. Dalembert will improve our rebounding and defense.

Please reply to this comment
btw- I choose "2 early 2 tell"
__________________

Dalembert's basketball IQ isn't astronomical, but sometimes negative things get blown out of proportion by fans who can only think about "what if?" A good example of that for Kings fans was the complaining that used to go on about Adelman. He wasn't perfect, but he was a very good coach nonetheless. Dalembert isn't perfect, but he will make our team better.

Dalembert made himself unpopular with some Philly fans by complaining that he was getting too little PT and too few touches, just as Nocioni ticked off a lot of Kings fans by complaining about his role here. Fans, by definition, aren't objective. If they're pissed about things Dalembert said, they'll minimize his basketball skills, and be glad when he leaves.

Then there's the homer factor -- fans who steadfastly insist that their franchise's front office is infallible, and that the team's constantly improving.

I don't know which of those has the most responsibility for the posts you read, but I think this trade was very good for us, and won't lose any sleep wondering what was up with some Philly fans.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

didnt see this mentioned but he had a trade kicker of 2 mil. his salary is 14.2mil this year

According to ShamSports (roll over Dalembert for details) the trade kicker was 15% but only increased his salary by a bit over $350K/year. I'm not quite sure how that works because 15% is a lot more than $350K, but Sham is usually very right about these things, putting Dalembert's salary at about $13.3M. Assuming Sham is right, it's possible that the 15% applied only to the first year of the contract rather than the total value, and was then spread over the duration of the contract. But I don't know.

 

[Larry89]

This trade is terrible, on par with the Webber trade, we could have built around Nocioni for the next 6 years

 

[Showtime]

I really don't understand why people keep saying Dalembert is "defensive minded". No, he's proficient at rebounding and shot blocking who happens to suck on offense, but that doesn't mean that's his primary focus and effort. He's the kind of guy who can do those things well, but doesn't necessarily think those are the primary things he should be doing.

 

[Sparky6string]

Maybe it just looks lie he's a defensive specialist when compared to our past help? I mean the numbers don't lie and bajaden showed us recently the figures supporting the claim that he is a superior post defender when compared to our earlier help. I find it hard to believe that Dalembert does not understand that his value lies in his defense and not his offense.

 

[Bricklayer]

I really don't understand why people keep saying Dalembert is "defensive minded". No, he's proficient at rebounding and shot blocking who happens to suck on offense, but that doesn't mean that's his primary focus and effort. He's the kind of guy who can do those things well, but doesn't necessarily think those are the primary things he should be doing.

That's not really a relevant distinction for our purposes -- he may not be a truly dominant defender, but whether its his primary focus or not he generally takes care of business in there and the Sixers have consistently been better defensively when he is on the floor (according to 82games.com between 1.8 and 5.4 pts better defensively per 100 possessions over the last 4 years). Which is hardly a surprise given his shotblocking and rebounding abilities. He competes on that end and erases mistakes by his teammates. That he wants to be more on the offensive end doesn't change any of that. All too common story amongst defensive roleplayers -- Deke always wanted his touches too -- and something Westphal will just have to try to coax.

 

[Showtime]

That's not really a relevant distinction for our purposes --

it sure is if the guy wants to be a part of the offense and isn't focusing on the primary reason why he's here. If he's not putting in the effort, he's not a defensive-minded player.

he may not be a truly dominant defender, but whether its his primary focus or not he generally takes care of business

As I said, he's proficient and can be effective, but he's not a defensive-minded player. There's a difference. Just because a guy is good in a certain area does NOT mean that area is his primary focus where he puts in the most effort. Now, whether or not Paul can get him to be that kind of player is another issue, but I don't know anybody who would characterize him as a defensive-minded player from a Philly perspective. Maybe people are just trying to convey that the most effective part of his game is defensive-oriented, in which case I would agree.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

it sure is if the guy wants to be a part of the offense and isn't focusing on the primary reason why he's here. If he's not putting in the effort, he's not a defensive-minded player.



As I said, he's proficient and can be effective, but he's not a defensive-minded player. There's a difference. Just because a guy is good in a certain area does NOT mean that area is his primary focus where he puts in the most effort. Now, whether or not Paul can get him to be that kind of player is another issue, but I don't know anybody who would characterize him as a defensive-minded player from a Philly perspective. Maybe people are just trying to convey that the most effective part of his game is defensive-oriented, in which case I would agree.

Did you read the interview with Dalembert from the Bee? He fully understands the reason we traded for him. Play defense and rebound. He must have said it about 3 times. Its very hard to argue what goes on in someones head ( the defensive 'minded' arguement ) but he cleary knows that that is what he's here for.

Im not saying he isnt going to want touches, but Im not sure hes expecting that many anyways.

 

[Telemachus]

it sure is if the guy wants to be a part of the offense and isn't focusing on the primary reason why he's here. If he's not putting in the effort, he's not a defensive-minded player.

I'm sorry, but it looks like you are just looking for something to complain about with this argument. Dalembert KNOWS that defense is his primary concern when he is on the floor, and that is what he primarily focuses on when he plays. That does not mean that he doesn't want to play on the other end of the floor (that would be stupid, and make him a huge liability). And the fact that he wants to be involved in the offense doesn't mean he will take his focus off of his defense.

Since you seem to think he shouldn't want to do anything other than play defense, can you name me ONE player who only wanted to play defense and never wanted to play more on offense? If you can find a player like that, I guarantee you that he didn't last very long.

 

[Showtime]

I'm sorry, but it looks like you are just looking for something to complain about with this argument.

No, I'm simply disagreeing with people's assessment of him as a player. If you think that's complaining, then fine. I think most people on this forum have blinders on when it comes to new players, so we are on opposite sides of the same coin.

I'm simply clarifying that Dalembert KNOWS that defense is his primary concern when he is on the floor, and that is what he primarily focuses on when he plays. That does not mean that he doesn't want to play on the other end of the floor (that would be stupid, and make him a huge liability). And the fact that he wants to be involved in the offense doesn't mean he will take his focus off of his defense.

Listen, that's all well and good, but I just disagree that he's a defensive-minded player. I think he's an athletic center who's best and most effective parts of his game happen to be on the glass and blocking shots, but I don't think that's his primary focus, and where he puts in max effort. I don't think he sees himself as that kind of player, even if it's how everybody else expects him to be.

Since you seem to think he shouldn't want to do anything other than play defense, can you name me ONE player who only wanted to play defense and never wanted to play more on offense? If you can find a player like that, I guarantee you that he didn't last very long.

First of all, I would name said players, but I would be continuing a discussion which isn't relevant. Apparently you didn't comprehend my point, so I won't bother continuing this.

 

[Showtime]

Did you read the interview with Dalembert from the Bee? He fully understands the reason we traded for him. Play defense and rebound. He must have said it about 3 times. Its very hard to argue what goes on in someones head ( the defensive 'minded' arguement ) but he cleary knows that that is what he's here for.

Im not saying he isnt going to want touches, but Im not sure hes expecting that many anyways.

I never said that he has to have the mentality to totally forgo the offensive side of the basketball. My point is that there are some players who know their limitations, and put 100% effort into doing what they know they can do well (Jon Brockman, for example). And I don't think that Sammy is one of them. That's all.

 

[Sparky6string]

I never said that he has to have the mentality to totally forgo the offensive side of the basketball. My point is that there are some players who know their limitations, and put 100% effort into doing what they know they can do well (Jon Brockman, for example). And I don't think that Sammy is one of them. That's all.

That may be true but he's still effective. IDK maybe with him that might be necessary because if that's all the O he's got with that much attention think how little O there'd be if he focused less on it? I mean we need some kind of scoring from him or the other team only guards 4 players.

 

[Bricklayer]

it sure is if the guy wants to be a part of the offense and isn't focusing on the primary reason why he's here. If he's not putting in the effort, he's not a defensive-minded player.



As I said, he's proficient and can be effective, but he's not a defensive-minded player. There's a difference. Just because a guy is good in a certain area does NOT mean that area is his primary focus where he puts in the most effort. Now, whether or not Paul can get him to be that kind of player is another issue, but I don't know anybody who would characterize him as a defensive-minded player from a Philly perspective. Maybe people are just trying to convey that the most effective part of his game is defensive-oriented, in which case I would agree.

You appear to ignore his obvious career long effectiveness as a defender no matter what his mindset is. Which is oddly reminisceint of the approach taken by the Reke is not a PGers.

Samuel Dalembert can dream of being a competitive crocheter for all that I care so long as he in fact effective as a defender. And he always has been. The defense flat got better the moment this trade was announced.

 

[Telemachus]

No, I'm simply disagreeing with people's assessment of him as a player. If you think that's complaining, then fine. I think most people on this forum have blinders on when it comes to new players, so we are on opposite sides of the same coin.



Listen, that's all well and good, but I just disagree that he's a defensive-minded player. I think he's an athletic center who's best and most effective parts of his game happen to be on the glass and blocking shots, but I don't think that's his primary focus, and where he puts in max effort. I don't think he sees himself as that kind of player, even if it's how everybody else expects him to be.

So the fact that the primary reason he is in the NBA is his defense, and that he has said that he knows and understands that his defense and rebounding are what are expected of him don't mean anything? Simply because YOU know that what he really wants to focus on is his offense?

I'm sorry, but I have watched him play and he doesn't put in more effort on offense than he does on defense. And I don't want a player that isn't trying to improve on both ends of the court every year. You brought up Brockman understanding his role (rebounding). And yet, he is working hard this off-season to improve his mid-range jump-shot and face-up ability. I guess he must have changed his focus in the wrong direction.

 

[swisshh]

I don't doubt that Sammy will give the fans new types of headaches by trying to do too much on offense, but having a shotblocker makes organizing a defense so much easier.

 

[bajaden]

According to ShamSports (roll over Dalembert for details) the trade kicker was 15% but only increased his salary by a bit over $350K/year. I'm not quite sure how that works because 15% is a lot more than $350K, but Sham is usually very right about these things, putting Dalembert's salary at about $13.3M. Assuming Sham is right, it's possible that the 15% applied only to the first year of the contract rather than the total value, and was then spread over the duration of the contract. But I don't know.

Hmmm, I read in one of the Philly papers yesterday that it increased his salary by 2 mil.. Which I think is pretty close to 15%.

 

[bajaden]

This trade is terrible, on par with the Webber trade, we could have built around Nocioni for the next 6 years

You need to put one of these at the end...

 

[pshn80]

What we had before was a center who was not very good at rebounding and any of the defensive tasks. We traded him for a center who is quite experienced and has performed well at rebounding and defensive tasks. Good deal. And I'm sure that Petrie could tell us one helluva lot more about our new center. Isn't that enough for now? Let's finish the team and play ball.

 

[bajaden]

I never said that he has to have the mentality to totally forgo the offensive side of the basketball. My point is that there are some players who know their limitations, and put 100% effort into doing what they know they can do well (Jon Brockman, for example). And I don't think that Sammy is one of them. That's all.

Your certainly entitled to your opinion, but personally I think your the one with blinders on. No one on this fourm thinks that Dalembert is the second coming of Bill Russell. Or even Ben Wallace for that matter. What most do believe is that he's and upgrade at center from a defensive point of view.

Maybe your memory is a little foggy, but I seem to remember him blocking a few shots by the Kings. If you go on Synergy.com he comes out as around the 5th or 6th best defensive center in most catagorys. Now that might not make him Dwight Howard, but it does show he's effective. I'm pretty sure you won't see him hanging out at the 3pt bar and grill anytime soon.

Now I'm not going to use this as an excuse for any of his deficencies, but the dude has had 5 coaches in 8 years. That doesn't lend itself to consistent play from anyone. One could argue that Iguodala hasn't reached the potential that was expected. Could it be that the 76ers have just been a mess for some time. What I do know is that Dalembert has played in all 82 games the last 4 years. I know he's not known for his creative passing, but seldom turns the ball over, so apparently does know his limitations in that area. He averages just over 3 fouls a game, so he's just a little above average in that area. And he's a good per minute rebounder.

Basicly we have a year to see whats real and whats not. He gets a fresh start and a lot of incentive. At worse it costs us Hawes to get rid of Nocioni. At best maybe we found ourselves a defensive stopper when we need one. We'll see! Right now the cups half full for me. If its half empty for you, well, sorry! At the moment I'm happy about the possibilities. Check back with me half way through the season.

 

[Gary]

Showtime, The thing you get with Dalembert is a man that is not going to give up as many 2nd chance opportunities, and who can swat some shots and maybe keep a couple people from wanting to drive to the basket for an easy two points like it has been in the past..

That might not translate into opponent FG% going down but it will probably lower the opponent PPG which is fine in my book. He's not defensive minded, but he is not a bad defender by any stretch of the imagination. I think defensively the Kings will get better though because he fits better with what the team is going for. Let's just hope the offense doesn't go kaput

 

[Telemachus]

Showtime, The thing you get with Dalembert is a man that is not going to give up as many 2nd chance opportunities, and who can swat some shots and maybe keep a couple people from wanting to drive to the basket for an easy two points like it has been in the past..

That might not translate into opponent FG% going down but it will probably lower the opponent PPG which is fine in my book. He's not defensive minded, but he is not a bad defender by any stretch of the imagination. I think defensively the Kings will get better though because he fits better with what the team is going for. Let's just hope the offense doesn't go kaput

I also thought is was interesting that Ed Pinkney (who was on 1140 yesterday) mentioned how Philly would put Dalembert 1-on-1 with the best centers in the league. He said how they would tell him they weren't going to double-team, and he seemed to like the challange.

 

[Showtime]

I asked some sixer fans about thier opinion on Sammy's approach to the game, and if his defensive impact was more a question of mentality and focus, or from his physical gifts of length and athleticism.

Decent defender because of his physical gifts.

He thinks he's Chris Bosh from mid-range and Hakeem on the block.

Decent paint defender because of his physical gifts. Nothing more. And Dalembert doesnt put energy/effort into anything or else he would have improved as a player. He's an extremely tall, long, athlete. Anchoring a defense? Being a defensive minded individual who can see things on the floor? That aint Sammy. He'll block shots and rebound for Sacremento. But he is not going to significantly improve the defense.

He's an okay man defender against other guys with "length" like Jermaine O'Neal, Camby, Lopez, those kinds of players. He gives up a ton of goaltends in a variety of ways. His biggest asset as a defender is his presence as a shotblocker and intimidation to come in the paint rather than actually being a good defender. He doesn't understand help defense or rotations well.

It's the offensive end that's going to drive you crazy...getting an offensive rebound with a fresh shot clock only to chuck the ball back up like it's on fire, trying to iso his and cross his defender on the perimeter with 10 secs on the shotclock, shooting college range threes. He's a headache and then when fans and coaches get on him about his offensive intelligence he defends himself with "People have to know what I'm out there for. I'm out there to block shots and rebound, not to score. You've got to understand my role." Um...we understand your role Sammy. It's obvious you don't. He's going to wine if you draft Cousins and his minutes start to dwindle, but at least it's only for a year.

I'm done. No sense arguing with kings fans who probably haven't seen more of Sammy than I have, let alone Philly fans who watched his entire career there. I'm not saying he isn't an upgrade when it comes to blocking shots and rebounding. What I am saying is that IMO, he doesn't have a "defensive mindset".

 

[Heuge]

I'm done. No sense arguing with kings fans who probably haven't seen more of Sammy than I have, let alone Philly fans who watched his entire career there. I'm not saying he isn't an upgrade when it comes to blocking shots and rebounding. What I am saying is that IMO, he doesn't have a "defensive mindset".

These words didnt really originate with Kings fan. "Defensive mindset" is the descriptor that Petrie used to start his press conference on the Sammy trade.

 

[bloom]

I got to admit that I was a little disappointed when I heard that Spencer was part of the deal because I really believe that Spencer was going to come here with a different attitude this upcoming season. Maybe it has to do with his contract coming up or whatever but I see him doing good things this year.

The good news is that Nocioni is finally traded. I don’t have to worry about him anymore.

I’m not excited about Sam as most of you are but I’m happy that he’s an expiring and maybe we can trade him for some young kids/draft picks…I’m also not sure you want this type of attitude in our locker room.

For two years, the Sixers have been trying to trade Dalembert, who looks forward to basketball season about the same way a vampire anticipates daybreak. The guy did not like basketball. He showed up late, didn't work on improving his game, and took every opportunity to stay away from the practice court.

With Dalembert as your team's starting center, you weren't going to be a winning basketball team. Everyone within the organization will tell you he's a fantastic guy, and this is true, but he weighed the team down like an anchor, both on the financial books and on the court.

Source: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports...embert_deal_not_a_surprise.html#ixzz0rSjnf9Ph

 

[Larry89]

Spencer Hawes next season 17/11/2 blocks

 

[Emma]

Spencer Hawes next season 17/11/2 blocks

I'll raise you - 21/12/3 asst/2 blks. And they'll still miss the playoffs

 

[jcassio]

I'll raise you - 21/12/3 asst/2 blks. And they'll still miss the playoffs

Where's your faith in young Spence?
I say 25 pts, 12 boards and 2.2 blocks.

 

[Spike]

I got to admit that I was a little disappointed when I heard that Spencer was part of the deal because I really believe that Spencer was going to come here with a different attitude this upcoming season. Maybe it has to do with his contract coming up or whatever but I see him doing good things this year.

The good news is that Nocioni is finally traded. I don’t have to worry about him anymore.

I’m not excited about Sam as most of you are but I’m happy that he’s an expiring and maybe we can trade him for some young kids/draft picks…I’m also not sure you want this type of attitude in our locker room.

I wouldn't trust philly newspapers. They have a loving way of saying "good riddance." Besides, a change of scenery could be a blessing for both Hawes and Dalembert.

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

I wouldn't trust philly newspapers. They have a loving way of saying "good riddance." Besides, a change of scenery could be a blessing for both Hawes and Dalembert.

Agreed. Both players seemed to be in the doghouse.

 

[The Hammer]

Spencer Hawes next season 17/11/2 blocks

In the Eastern Conference with no competition for a starting job on a floundering team... yes. Except for 9.5 rebs.