kingsnation
All-Star
Season in a nutshell: some fans actually believe a 28 year old on a terrible contract, who wants no part of our future, is really an integral part of the future.
lol, I gotta give it to you, this was really a great comeback!
Noc rips the Kings... (NEW! Poll added!!)
- Thread starter Showtime
- Start date
lol, I gotta give it to you, this was really a great comeback!
Section 101
All-Star
Maybe he improved playing on team Argentina. The one that won the gold medal.
So by your analysis Peja, Tony Parker, Dirk, Songalia, Darko, Hedo and Beno aren't Euro players.
FakeInjury
Bench
Like the stock market and the housing crisis, everything needs an ultimate bottom(low). And Noc has helped us reach it. That alone is cause for celebration, and that alone is worth the trade that brought him to us. Now that he has helped the public at large realize what we all knew to be true; finally we can actually say "It will not get any worse", and mean it. This is good news because, it will not get any worse. He may need to be bought out nonetheless, but luckily Argentines are not known for thier bussiness savvy. He spoke, and probably will be fined 3k-7k dollars for comments detrimental to the team, and hopefully that won't bother him. The honeymoon was over a little too quickly with Nocioni.
That's right, you were quoting ME. Please go back and read what I wrote again and decide whether I think Argentina is in Europe. Probably the first sentence of what you quoted will suffice.
In the end, the whole stupid argument here (and yes, it's remarkably stupid as far as arguments go) is whether the adjective "Euro" can be used to describe a player who plays a European style of basketball as a result of spending formative basketball years in Europe. Whether you think that is an acceptable adjective or not is nothing but semantics.
Nobody is saying Nocioni was born in Europe. Nobody is saying Argentina is in Europe. And frankly, I care very little about the argument. I only spoke up in the first place because I thought a snarky comment was out of line. And I only speak up now because you accused me (the person you quoted) as believing that Argentina is in Europe.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
No, a "Euro" is short for European. End of. What you percieve to be a "Euro style" is really simply a non-NBA style. Basically, if you're not a freak athlete, your game is more suited to Europe. In other words, all white players outside the US can be lumped into the "Euro" category.
And, by the way, I never said you think Argentina is in Europe (although that mistake could easily be made if you continue to stubbornly insist Argentinians are Euros). The point I was making is that saying an Argie is a Euro is like saying a Mongolian is an American. So what if they play the same way, it still makes no sense.
You are right about one thing, though; this is a stupid argument. I just find it funny when people call everywhere bar the US "Euros". And BTW, my original comment was not snarky. It was fact.
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Kingster
Hall of Famer
Its funny how often this happens -- it seems that European (and Argentina is pretty close to Europe, right?) players have a tremendous number of these incidents when talking to their own language papers back overseas. All of the politically/sports correct language used everywhere else -- "we just have to keep working hard", "its a young team on the rise" etc. etc. gets thrown out the window, and they seem to say things to their home country media that are just off the wall brutally honest. Gripes that if you said them to the New York Times or something would just be eye opening. Still have not figured out whether that is because the players somehow feel "safe" talking to the non-English media, as if somehow its not going to make it back across the language barrier, if it is because these media outlets are largely tabloid in nature and really going fishing for sensationalistic quotes, take things out of context, put a spin on etc. etc., or if its because the players are put up on a pedastal in their home countries and they feel like they have to make excuses for why they are not dominating in the NBA.
As for the actual complaints:
1) well, yes
2) how exactly does he know anything about our fiscal attitude? He's been here 1 month during which time we have made no fiscal decisions. Is he just guessing from the trades?? Has he been told something? Does he have no concept of the free salary cap room to sign a free agent tactic?
3) disjointed and selfish play would be inevitable in a team with a 50% turnover rate at the trade deadline, would it not? What did he expect?
4) if I hear one more person say that our .418 shooting flopping 90lb weakling of an OG should get even more shots to chunk up I'm going to scream. If I hear one more person try to except from a selfishness label a player who shoots/flops 10 times for every assist he racks up I am going to scream even louder.
5) Nocioni may be a "winner"...in Europe. I have always thought, and still do, that he could be part of a winner in the NBA, but he's never won anything here. His Chicago teams barely made the playoffs in the East, and he came over from another lottery team (another young lottery team at that).
6) I was unaware of the opt out clauses -- is his "if I can get something better" actually a threat that he might use them?Never in a million years would I have guessed that.
7) maybe this interview is his way of doing just that -- after his play thus far you could easily have seen him being kept as sort of the veteran mentor to a young team, but after you blast them all in the paper/online whatever, kind of shoots your leadership right in the foot. Our players are stupid and selfish enough as is, now you call them on it in public, isn't anytway they are going to listen to you.
8) in the end, maybe its just the losing. Hence the comment about the draft. Like Bobby, an instinctual competitor and unable to reconcile himself to the strategic realities and life cycle of the NBA.
Re #2: My best guess is that this is the prevalent locker-room talk and/or his agent talking. It's not a big secret that the Maloofs are cash strapped. Add the fact they are dumping salaries. Add the uncertainty of whether they really are going after a big free agent or just bank the cash. Mix. Bake. Voila! That's the story...
Re #6: He doesn't need an opt out clause. Salmons and Miller didn't have opt out clauses either, but they got out, didn't they?
I said "a snarky comment", not "your snarky comment". The comment I was referring to, which I quoted in my first comment on this thread, was not yours.
Kings Faithful
Starter
This whole european argument is stupid and completely off topic.
I don't think Noc should have come out to the press with it. Its quite obvious to everyone whats going on, but to let the fans know that you would rather leave is pretty lame.
I don't think Noc should have come out to the press with it. Its quite obvious to everyone whats going on, but to let the fans know that you would rather leave is pretty lame.
Nighthawk1
Starter
I think he is just being honest and I don't think he did it in any super disprespectful way... But sadly for him he got pushed into a situation which was even worse then it was before he came... Just now can you see JT and Hawes getting together and working plays to each other - and I think the rest of the team is pretty much like that (I hope anyways) finally getting used to the fact this is their starting lineup and these are the guys they can expect to play with now and in the future. I honestly think it'll take until trade deadline of next year for us to get a solid feel if it worked or not... I for one hope our leader on the court and on the sidelines is fixed this offseason.
S
sactownfan
Guest
Section 101 got served! I was working and couldn't write it myself but there ya have it.
LOOK! this argument is lame!
Again the point of it all is...
If Noc was happy to be here and everything was going just swell then i would really begin to wonder about his mental health... we're an absolute mess right now!
It sounds like its more and more obvious that its the style of ball thats being played or allowed to be played right now thats the problem, and thats on Natt! We need a real Coach !
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
?
Until he opened his mouth, there has been a lot TO like about Noc. His age and contract being the only real negatives.
Section 101
All-Star
Really, that means if you flip it then Peja, Tony Parker, Dirk, Songalia, Darko, Hedo and Beno aren't Euro players. If you ask Noc if he's a Euro player what would he say?
I think Brick hit it on the head. Foreign players say this crap all the time and don't expect it to get back to their teams because of the language barrier. Also, how much is lost in translation? Not just from language to languge, but in the foreign interpretations of what he's trying to say.
If the bee, team or espn doesn't make any mention of it then the majority of Kings fans will never know what he said anyways.
Eveyrone is buying that this is all true, not taken out of context or possibly translated incorrectly? Hrm...
I'd like a little better source than hoopsworld before I bought it hook, line and sinker. People seem to be in a real hurry to throw him under the bus over this. Sorry, but I do not agree. He's shown heart and hustle, he's shown toughness and his actions are going to speak a lot louder to me than some third-hand report of words that are, if people get their heads out of their arses, pretty spot on.
Our team is selfish; our team is a bottom dwelling mess at the moment. Deal with it.
I'd like a little better source than hoopsworld before I bought it hook, line and sinker. People seem to be in a real hurry to throw him under the bus over this. Sorry, but I do not agree. He's shown heart and hustle, he's shown toughness and his actions are going to speak a lot louder to me than some third-hand report of words that are, if people get their heads out of their arses, pretty spot on.
Our team is selfish; our team is a bottom dwelling mess at the moment. Deal with it.
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Gliesian
Bench
The important thing is he's willing to stay and be a part of our future if we get better (ie: get into the playoffs soon). That's what I got from this. He knows we're rebuilding and is giving us a chance; however, his honesty may have been a bit insensitive and it seems he would rather be traded. I think he is straddling the fence and I'm OK with that as long as he keeps his comments to himself.
For those who would like an entirely neutral and very rough translation, here's Google's rendition: http://translate.google.com/transla...uet/01884112.html&sl=es&tl=en&history_state0=
Season in a nutshell: some fans actually believe a 28 year old on a terrible contract, who wants no part of our future, is really an integral part of the future.
Well we're stuck with that contract so he IS a part of our future. You really think we'll be able to move him and his contract? You're crazy.
He IS however, a good player who can shoot well, defend well, rebound well, and hustles. With his contract he pretty much HAS to be a part of our future, so we might as well get the best out of him.
What Noc said is true, there's no denying that. Might as well FIX it rather than get mad at him for speaking the truth.
I think the whole Euro thing is just a matter of whether you take Euro to be European or Euro league (so Euro players would refer to players out of the euro league). Back to the topic, I think so many problems would solve themselves if we had a half-decent coach. Kenny Natt is just not going to cut it as far as growing and developing the team. True we don't need to win at the moment, but winning is important for a team to develop chemistry and stuff which is necessary for a good team in the future.
Circa_1985_Fan
All-Star
Yup, this hit's the nail on the head. I think Noce just wants to win, and wants a competitive team to play with. That being said, I do think the Maloofs realize that in order to make money in this tough economical time, they have to spend a little to get back to our winning ways...and with our 2 first rounders and $14 million to spend, I think Petrie will take full advantage of this. Noce will be fine I think once he sees the upgrades during the offseason.
Circa_1985_Fan
All-Star
Hahahaha!
SacKings384
Starter
Sorry, but I don't like any guy that whines about his teammates and his organization when he has been there for a month. I don't buy the "he just wants to win" excuse.
This was exactly what I was thinking after reading the article.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Hahahaha!
One of the frustrating things about dealing with Europeans is their shaky grasp of basic geography.
Gary
All-Star
Nocioni is 1000000% correct.
This is also the reason I do not want a scoring PG who looks for his own offense first because team play is much better to watch.
The Kings players need to sit down and figur out what their roles are going to be on their own. If not they all could be individual all-stars but the team would still suck.
This is also the reason I do not want a scoring PG who looks for his own offense first because team play is much better to watch.
The Kings players need to sit down and figur out what their roles are going to be on their own. If not they all could be individual all-stars but the team would still suck.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
One of the frustrating things about dealing with Europeans is their shaky grasp of basic geography.
That's why that ferry from Buenos Aires to Uruguay took so long!
Vlade4GM
All-Star
If there were better ways of dumping Miller and Salmons without taking on Nocioni then I'd hope they didn't turn it down because they liked Nocioni as a player. His age and contract are big deals in regards to a team that is rebuilding.
6th
Homer Fan Since 1985
One of the frustrating things about dealing with Europeans is their shaky grasp of basic geography.
Brick, you are in rare form tonight. Love the chuckles.
Whining? Are you kidding? He's not whining, he's telling it like it is. He's walked the walk; I think he's earned the right to call out those who don't. We've wanted players who aren't afraid to talk about the elephant in the room. He didn't say anything we haven't said on this very board too many times to count. He's challenging the players to step up and do better...and if their feelings are hurt, too bad. They've hurt our feelings numerous times by phoning in it, looking like they'd rather be in a dentist's chair having root canals, or just going through the motions. Noc doesn't do that. He puts it out there on the court, doing his job. He's done that from the minute he came to town. It should be a wakeup call for some of the other guys who have looked as though they couldn't care less about doing their best.
He wasn't vindictive and I doubt if he had a hidden agenda. He just said what he felt - and what a lot of us have felt.
You don't buy the "he just wants to win" excuse? Well, sorry, but I do. And I'd sure rather hear guys saying that like Noc and Bobby, who will follow their words up with actions on the court. I'm tired of having players dish out platitudes like business cards at a networking seminar and then coming out the next game and putting forth less effort than the half-time entertainers.
Case in point? Kevin Martin. I've been a Martin fan from day one but it's time for him to quit talking about playing defense or working harder to create his shot or anything else he says in a sound byte when he follows it up by coming out and doing virtually nothing he's talked about.
Actions speak louder than words. And Nocioni's actions have pretty much convinced me he's talking the talk only because he's willing to walk the walk.
Thank you, Noc!
PurpleHaze
All-Star
Seems I recall Kevin Martin saying earlier this season the Kings were a "joke." He might have said a bit more, but not much. At least Andres Nocioni offered a good (or bad) overall critique of the pathetic situation. I'm sure he feels more comfortable speaking in Spanish to make his points. I find his comments refreshing and spot on - since nothing Coach Natt is doing has worked. The team has the worst record in the NBA, the worst in its history - it deserves a spanking from whatever quarter has credibility, not simply ignoring the disaster, or worse offering up some absurd rah rah nonsense. NOC FOR KINGS TEAM CAPTAIN 2009-10!
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