Next Year: Hawes, Other Problems, and

[sactownfan]

#1 PROBLEM....

4 coaches in 4 seasons.
05-06 rick
06-07 muss
07-08 reggie
08-09 natt / reggie....

Garcia has had a new head coach each season he's been on this team. How does that impact the growth of our players??? Most importantly... I think Rick Adelman is the only coach the team as a whole respected... Muss and Natt are jokes, and Reggie talked trash and put down K-mart, better but still a joke.... Also our coaches, going back to Rick Adelman(he wasn't perfect) have all had questionable player rotations. Which means that even tho Players might have respected our coach they, with good reason questioned the coaches decisions.

THIS IS THE MOST PRESSING ISSUE! enough of the revolving door! This next coach needs to be a very.... very... very... safe choice. He needs proven NBA head coaching experience, and needs to have a balanced personality... no Larry Brown's or Jeff Van Gundys... Petrie and the Maloofs need to really think this one through because they're gonna need to hand this guy the keys and let him go with there FULL support... and I mean FULL support... Im worried that our players are more likely to dismiss coaches now with the mind set "this coach is gonna be gone before i am, why do i have to listen".

#2 our Key Players/ Building Blocks

Kevin:
is the hands down our best player but wow is his game still flawed. For being so quick he NEEDS to be a better on the ball defender and NEEDS to either rebound more or dish out more assists... If he can't figure out how to be a better defender then I think hes most valuable to this team as a trade piece for a more complete all around or superstar player. Thats that, play def or trade him!

Hawes:
wow you wouldn't know it by last nights game but he might be the most complete all around players we got. He CAN score many ways, he CAN block shots and defend the paint, he CAN rebound and he CAN pass. But will he ever start having games were he CAN do all these things together???? If I were Hawes I'd start getting worried cause of God help us we dont get the 1st or 2nd pick... Theres a good chance we draft another Center and if Hawes doesn't get his game together he could have competition for that starting job. Hawes is leaning on disappointment since he took the starting job. I think we all just expected him to be more consistent. too many horrific
games. too much Mikki Moore!

JT:
Is more than I expected... I only ask and expect for more hard work and continued improvement. only bummer is the crying over fouls... good influence BRAD

Garcia:
I very much enjoy Garcia's spirit and leadership. But im just not that impressed with him... hes very versatile, but it just seems to me that hes more miss then hit... its like he'll hit this big shot that leaves you thinking "WOW THATS GOOD!" but then he disappears by shooting a couple forced shots or blowing it some other way... so for some reason I feel like hes just not a good fit on this team...???... injury prone??? too skinny??? I dont know what it is, but i wouldn't be that upset to see him in a package for a better player.

Nocioni:
good all around player. Seems to gel MUCH MUCH better with the team and is a better fit than Salmons ever was. The key here is $$$ will age get the best of him and screw us? or will he pay off and leave us pain free...??? guess well find out down the road.

Beno:
sucks

Greene:
Lots of unrealized potential ! ! ! I hope...
a few things:
1. he should be in the freakn D-league if hes not gonna be played... or played real min's !!!
2. towel waving and cheering not NBA experience
3. Direct result of what happens to project/potential type players when your Coaches suck and are stupid.
4. im gonna pretend next year is Donte's 1st season in the NBA... I hope he plays!


Well heres to having either Griffin or Rubio... and if we dont get 1st or 2nd???

#3 well heres to Booze!

 

[kingsnation]

4 coaches in 4 seasons.
05-06 rick
06-07 muss
07-08 reggie
08-09 natt / reggie....

Garcia has had a new head coach each season he's been on this team. How does that impact the growth of our players???

--------------

Garcia:
I very much enjoy Garcia's spirit and leadership. But im just not that impressed with him... hes very versatile, but it just seems to me that hes more miss then hit... its like he'll hit this big shot that leaves you thinking "WOW THATS GOOD!" but then he disappears by shooting a couple forced shots or blowing it some other way... so for some reason I feel like hes just not a good fit on this team...???... injury prone??? too skinny??? I dont know what it is, but i wouldn't be that upset to see him in a package for a better player.

These 2 observations might go hand-in-hand.

 

[Nighthawk1]

I don't agree with you on Hawes, kid is only 20.. You guys seem to forget that A LOT. That's two years younger then JT! He's going to be one of the better Centers in the league just watch...

 

[Showtime]

Part of Spencer's inconsistency is the inconsistent way he's used in the offense. He's more of a 3rd or 4th option player instead of a main focus which they look to in the paint. As long as Hawes is treated like a peripheral player, he will produce that way.

 

[sactownfan]

Part of Spencer's inconsistency is the inconsistent way he's used in the offense. He's more of a 3rd or 4th option player instead of a main focus which they look to in the paint. As long as Hawes is treated like a peripheral player, he will produce that way.

I dont think the big problem is offense... its getting burned on defense and rebounding.

 

[Kings Faithful]

Since you put in all that time writing this i feel bad to say i disagree with some of your assessments. Specificaly about Martin and Hawes. I know Martin has some loop-holes in his defensive game but i wouldn't go as far as saying "WOW his game is flawed, hes best used as a trade piece". I think you are under valuing what he does on offense. He's best used as a number 1 SCORING option and hopefully he learns some defense. Actually from what I recall i was impressed with his defense in that last game against the Bobcats. I saw him get physical a couple times and was pleased. I also think you are shafting Hawes a little bit to. How many 20 yr olds in the league do you see putting together great passing/rebounding/scoring games? No one. I actually have been overwhelmed by his improvements since taking the starting position from Miller especially with his latest string of 20 ppg 9rpg games... Yeah, so he had a really bad game against the Bobcats but all players have those type of games. I expect him to have a good game next time around. Lets give our big men a chance before we trash on them shall we?

 

[Widowmaker2k]

I think people are expecting too much from Hawes too soon. This is only his second year, and he was considered quite a project when we drafted him. Not the "all athleticism no skills" kind of project, but more the green behind the ears/needs conditioning kind. If he's this inconsistent 2 years from now, then it's time to worry, but all I really expected out of him his first 2 years were flashes of the player he could potentially become, and so far, those flashes have looked really good. I feel fine with him as our starting center going forward. He's no defensive beast, but neither was Vlade, and with the right coach, his defense was just fine. I personally feel a lot of our lack of defense and sloppiness emanates from the fact that we don't have a real coach or a floor leader (which you obviously cited as your number 1 concern). Once we get those two, many of the holes in our team will disappear (or at least become less of a big deal).

 

[Entity]

I think your right about Kevin. He isn't going to bring in Lebron or Dwight. What he could do is bring in a guy that is on the verge of superstardom but, just insn't geling in his current situation i.e. Carmello Anthony or Chris Bosh. I am not saying I want either of those thats just the level Kevin could bring if paired with another player or a draft pick.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Hawes definitely needs a coach to get on his *** before he starts permanently developing some really bad habbits.

 

[NikateeN]

\JT:
Is more than I expected... I only ask and expect for more hard work and continued improvement. only bummer is the crying over fouls... good influence BRAD

Whats the deal with people blaming brad for his whining? Does Martin, Garcia, Hawes, and Greene whine when they get a foul called on them? Not really, were they drafted during the Miller era? Yes. So why is it Brads fault? Thats an excuse, Thompson has a lot of passion for this game, thats how he is, Miller didnt do that to him, thats how the kid plays and its something hes gonna have to learn to shake, stop blaming it on somebody esle.

 

[sactownfan]

Let me just say this Hawes is going to have up and down games... true... and yeah hes still really... really young... and he is still improving...

But hes 7ft tall and foul trouble or not he should have at least 2 boards a game on sheer size along with a pulse. Its not that he gets beat up a lil bit by other bigs he gets absolutely destroyed on defense and the boards by other teams bigs (that includes undersized players).

These were just thoughts/concerns

The coaching situation is the #1 problem and relates to everything else. actually it definitely has a great deal to do with everything else...

But the coach no matter who it is can't take all the blame and be the only issue.

 

[bajaden]

I think the asessment of Martin is fairly accurate. When he puts in the effort he's a decent to good defender. The problem is, he simply doesn't put in the effort every night. As far as his offensive ability, well I just watched McCants score 30 the other night, and he did so fairly easy. I'm not saying that Martin isn't valuable. I'm just saying that scoring guards are the easiest to replace.

The critical year for a center is his third year. History shows that it takes at least three years in the league for a centers true colors to show. The Warriors gave up on Robert Parrish after two years and lived to regret it. But then the Warriors traded some dude named Wilt too. Hmmm, maybe we should start trading with the Warriors.

As far as our bigs getting into foul trouble. A lot of it has to do with switching and not switching back. When Thompson or Hawes is suddenly staring down at TJ Ford or Raymond Felton, they're in trouble, and its not their fault. I'm sick to death of watching Hawes or Thompson running out at a perimeter shooter at the last moment. Where the hell was Martin or Garcia, or Beno etc. Out defensive problems aren't in the post, but on the perimeter, and that leads to problems in the post.

On average, neither Garcia, Martin, or Beno can stay in front of thier man. Martin is often late getting back in transition. Watch closely and see who's the first one back on a regular basis, and you'll see Thompson is right up there at the head of the class. I will give Garcia credit for getting back. But Martin, who is suspossed to be the quickest player on the team. Whats his excuse?

Hawes and Thompson are keepers, at least for now. Martin and Garcia are expendable, but only for the right deal. Nocioni is a plus if we keep him and a plus if we trade him for a greater need. Beno is, well, Beno. Either he's a decent backup or we trade him for another need. McCants is intriguing, but not worth spending a lot of money or years of a contract on. I certainly wouldn't get into a bidding contest with anyone. Greene has a long way to go. He needs to get his head on straight and put in the time to improve his game. He may have a big upside, but the NBA is littered with players that had a big upside and never amounted to anything. Things look brighter than they did last year at this time, but this is just the first step of a long journey back. What we need now is patience, and perhaps a lot of cervesa, or your drug of choice.

 

[JoMama]

Agree that Garcia is wildly erratic. He steals the ball, then turns it over on a dumb-*** charge. He sinks a big 3, then commits a stupid foul on the other end. While I love the guy's heart, I don't think he's got the smarts to make good decisions. He should be much more mature as a player, but he still makes rookie mistakes.
You're right about Beno, he sucks and I hope we can unload him.
Greene, is well, very green. I'm not optimistic.
Martin is a cream puff. If he could ever display emotion and play hard for an entire game, he'd score 50 with 10 rebounds. We're getting limited effort every night. That has to change.
I'm kind of changing my mind about Natt, although I'm still not totally convinced he's the best choice. I do like that he sits down the slackers and does show some cajones of late.
Love Hawes, Thompson and Nocioni.
Soloman is a keeper for a backup point guard.
Enjoyed the topic!

 

[Kingster]

You're most important point is about the coach. Couldn't agree more. It's freaking ABSURD, this roller-coster ride. And how in the world can you develop talent if you have inconsistency on the coaching side? It's got to stop! It is a joke. And unless the Maloofs do a much better job this offseason in hiring a coach, THEY and the organization will continue to be viewed as a joke.

 

[CruzDude]

A bunch of you complain about the coach and inconsistency and 4 coaches in 4 years and needing stability. Yet you advocate hiring a 5th coach in 5 years as some magic pill, some automatic fix to the Kings overall problems. As a fan it's your right to express your opinion. It is another matter entirely to understand the business of the NBA in general and the Kings in particular.

Kenny Natt represents the best chance to break the string of 4 in 4, to bring in stability and direction. His main mentors are two of the best in the business. He shares their philosophy. But a coach doesn't defend, or shoot or rotate on defense.

There is no team in modern history and none in the past 20 years I can remember that have gone thru the changes (4 coaches in 4 years), players (trading 7 of the team mid-year), youth (the two starting "bigs" both essentially rookies and young) and injuries that the 08-09 Kings have. Cutting them a little slack is not 30 days or 40 games. It is a season. Likely two seasons.

Sure, we all got spoiled, for the first time as Kings fans, with the run of 1998-2003 and want that again. But like the story of the old bull and the young bull on top of a hill looking down at a herd of heifers below when the young bull said, "Hey, lets rush down and get one of those heifers" to which the old bull said, "Let's walk down and have them all!" I'm willing to walk this year and next and see if the Kings can then get to the second round of the playoffs. Then the third. Then the whole enchilada.

 

[VF21]

A bunch of you complain about the coach and inconsistency and 4 coaches in 4 years and needing stability. Yet you advocate hiring a 5th coach in 5 years as some magic pill, some automatic fix to the Kings overall problems. As a fan it's your right to express your opinion. It is another matter entirely to understand the business of the NBA in general and the Kings in particular.

Kenny Natt represents the best chance to break the string of 4 in 4, to bring in stability and direction. His main mentors are two of the best in the business. He shares their philosophy. But a coach doesn't defend, or shoot or rotate on defense.

There is no team in modern history and none in the past 20 years I can remember that have gone thru the changes (4 coaches in 4 years), players (trading 7 of the team mid-year), youth (the two starting "bigs" both essentially rookies and young) and injuries that the 08-09 Kings have. Cutting them a little slack is not 30 days or 40 games. It is a season. Likely two seasons.

Sure, we all got spoiled, for the first time as Kings fans, with the run of 1998-2003 and want that again. But like the story of the old bull and the young bull on top of a hill looking down at a herd of heifers below when the young bull said, "Hey, lets rush down and get one of those heifers" to which the old bull said, "Let's walk down and have them all!" I'm willing to walk this year and next and see if the Kings can then get to the second round of the playoffs. Then the third. Then the whole enchilada.

thanks for the words of common sense.

 

[fnordius]

Coaching turnover at this level is hardly unique to the Kings. Seattle/OKC, for example, have had 5 head coaches in the last 4 years: McMillan, Weiss, Hill, Carlesimo and Brooks. And, aside from Nick Collison, nobody's been with that team for any length of time, they've really been in total chaos. But their youngsters have been learning, and playing a LOT of minutes, and under Brooks they have suddenly gelled into a fairly respectable team that has a future.

I'm not saying that a new coach would do that for us, the current Thunder were blown up back in Seattle and have had a little time to rebuild and develop, whereas we haven't. We still lack their level of young talent, so right now it may not matter so much who is coaching, we'd suck regardless. But, in a year or two? We'll want better coaching, whether that means Natt growing into it, or his being replaced.

It's just so hard to judge with a messed up roster and low morale. During the last Adelman year many wanted to blame the coach, when the real problems were that morale and the roster were weakening. I'm not drawing any conclusions about whether Natt will ever be a good NBA coach or not, just pointing out that it's not possible to solve an equation that contains too many variables. For right now, his substitutions are bad and he doesn't seem to have the respect of the players, but the franchise records the team has set for lins are doing us a lot of good, and I'd hate to mess with it.

I'm hoping to see some defensively-oriented, talented and athletic young players added to our roster this summer. Hand-wringing over Kevin Martin's lack of D won't get us very far. He seems to consider defense as being what the rest of the team should be doing while he catches his breath for the next offensive sprint. Getting him to play D is probably going to be like trying to get Bibby to. As Adelman said, you want D? Get defensive players. Martin's trade value is limited by the fact that every other franchise already knows that he doesn't defend, so that's no magical solution. Whoever has him needs to put some good defenders around him. Barring astonishing trade offers, that team may as well be us.

I can't wait for draft day.

 

[Sluggah]

Spencer Hawes, Oct '08 = "Complete Bust."

Spencer Hawes, Mar '09 = "Why aren't you our 20 year old franchise player doing it on both sides of the court night in and night out?"

Spencer Hawes, 2008-09 Most Improved Player of Hyperbole.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

A bunch of you complain about the coach and inconsistency and 4 coaches in 4 years and needing stability. Yet you advocate hiring a 5th coach in 5 years as some magic pill, some automatic fix to the Kings overall problems. As a fan it's your right to express your opinion. It is another matter entirely to understand the business of the NBA in general and the Kings in particular.

Kenny Natt represents the best chance to break the string of 4 in 4, to bring in stability and direction. His main mentors are two of the best in the business. He shares their philosophy. But a coach doesn't defend, or shoot or rotate on defense.

There is no team in modern history and none in the past 20 years I can remember that have gone thru the changes (4 coaches in 4 years), players (trading 7 of the team mid-year), youth (the two starting "bigs" both essentially rookies and young) and injuries that the 08-09 Kings have. Cutting them a little slack is not 30 days or 40 games. It is a season. Likely two seasons.

Sure, we all got spoiled, for the first time as Kings fans, with the run of 1998-2003 and want that again. But like the story of the old bull and the young bull on top of a hill looking down at a herd of heifers below when the young bull said, "Hey, lets rush down and get one of those heifers" to which the old bull said, "Let's walk down and have them all!" I'm willing to walk this year and next and see if the Kings can then get to the second round of the playoffs. Then the third. Then the whole enchilada.

Kenny Natt is a BAD coach. His lineups, playcalling, and defensive schemes just arent good. Granted I dont know what they are, and I think thats the problem.

The thing is that when we finally get better, Natt wont cut it. He is a bad X's and O's coach and thats what you need in the playoffs. Your better off getting that coach of the future as soon as you can.. I just pray that the maloofs will let Petrie do that this time.

 

[Warhawk]

If any of you honestly think Natt is the coach to get this team into the PO (as a minimum) in the next few years, then I can see keeping him. If not, then what's the point? Get a coach you are going to keep for a few years at a minimum and let him work.

Unless you are shooting for one more year in the top of the lottery; keep him for another year then re-evaluate, I guess.....

 

[Bricklayer]

Neither coaching turnover nor player turnover are inherently bad things, if you have the wrong coaches and players. Nattt is the wrong coach. Therefore turning him over is nto an inherently bad thing. A good thing in fact.

But I do think that the guy we hire this summer really has to be an attempt to get the long term guy. We screwed up with Rick (gee, who would have thunk?), and ever since its been experimental trash. Time to come in from the cold, and you aren't going to do that with a passive throw up your hands extension of Natt. All that will be doing is setting us up for another ticking countdown until the day when we have a 6th coach in 6 years or whatever. We need somebody, whether its an established guy, or a strong assistant who the franchise is going to get behind (Shaw or Thibodeau are the popular choices) with clout and a shot to be the guy for at least let's say 3 years.

 

[FakeInjury]

Natt is a superior coach, let us not forget that he has done a fine job staying out of the spotlight that is reserved for players only; which is something Theus had a hard time doing. He should be around next year, i hope. The team will have a hard time competing with the Lakers next year for a championship, so we draft the best player available(no suprise there). Hopefully the lakers loose this year and get desparate for our draft pick, otherwise we just flat out need some players. Bobby is gone and with him goes 10 points....McCants should be had for Beno money, but now that we signed Beno to Beno money its going to screw with everyones self-worth. I wouldn't count on McCants accepting less than Beno, and anything more than Beno money is probably not a safe play. Unless we trade Beno, McCants is going to be upset with any monies that suggest Beno>McCants. Which is why Petrie is guilty of a personal foul in my book. Which brings us back to the backcourt of Martin/Garcia/Beno......who is the moron that truely felt those 3 would work to our advantage in a game of hoops? This draft is thick, not deep, but thick.

 

[Kings Faithful]

I get a feeling from the players that they aren't to thrilled with Natt...if thats the case our next coach needs to be someone who is proven in the league as a respectable leader. No more risks, no more first timers.

 

[VF21]

I get a feeling from the players that they aren't to thrilled with Natt...if thats the case our next coach needs to be someone who is proven in the league as a respectable leader. No more risks, no more first timers.

What players are you taking to?

 

[Krunker]

Natt is a superior coach, let us not forget that he has done a fine job staying out of the spotlight that is reserved for players only; which is something Theus had a hard time doing.

In terms of the media, I think Natt's done pretty well. In terms of actions on the court though, I have serious doubts...

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

Natt is a superior coach, let us not forget that he has done a fine job staying out of the spotlight that is reserved for players only; which is something Theus had a hard time doing. He should be around next year, i hope. The team will have a hard time competing with the Lakers next year for a championship, so we draft the best player available(no suprise there). Hopefully the lakers loose this year and get desparate for our draft pick, otherwise we just flat out need some players. Bobby is gone and with him goes 10 points....McCants should be had for Beno money, but now that we signed Beno to Beno money its going to screw with everyones self-worth. I wouldn't count on McCants accepting less than Beno, and anything more than Beno money is probably not a safe play. Unless we trade Beno, McCants is going to be upset with any monies that suggest Beno>McCants. Which is why Petrie is guilty of a personal foul in my book. Which brings us back to the backcourt of Martin/Garcia/Beno......who is the moron that truely felt those 3 would work to our advantage in a game of hoops? This draft is thick, not deep, but thick.

Even if the Lakers lose, why would they want a draft pick?

 

[ParniValjak]

Neither coaching turnover nor player turnover are inherently bad things, if you have the wrong coaches and players. Nattt is the wrong coach. Therefore turning him over is nto an inherently bad thing. A good thing in fact.

But I do think that the guy we hire this summer really has to be an attempt to get the long term guy. We screwed up with Rick (gee, who would have thunk?), and ever since its been experimental trash. Time to come in from the cold, and you aren't going to do that with a passive throw up your hands extension of Natt. All that will be doing is setting us up for another ticking countdown until the day when we have a 6th coach in 6 years or whatever. We need somebody, whether its an established guy, or a strong assistant who the franchise is going to get behind (Shaw or Thibodeau are the popular choices) with clout and a shot to be the guy for at least let's say 3 years.

But this is the thing, if we screw up again by getting the wrong time this time around it IS a bad thing. You daon't want a culture of being a revolving door when it comes to coaches. Its not a bad thing to fire a bad coach but it is a very bad thing if you keep picking them in the first place.

I just think that the next coaching choice has to be a proven coach with a winning record and a track record of developing players and taking their teams into the play offs. Another shot in the dark on an unknown is not what we should be doing this time around.

When you get a guy who has won in this league before, then you know you have a good thing. Then you show some patience because you know that he won't be winning much in his first couple of seasons but once the kids develop, you know you have a coach capable of doing something.

Our recent choices have been all about powerpoint presentations and flashy suits or in Natt's case recycled Jerry Sloan quotes. The next head coach needs to be legit if we are to be taken seriously.

 

[mac]

I hope the celts don't win this season then we have a higher chance of getting Thibodeau

 

[Rookie]

No matter what coaches coming in and we tell ourselves (before the season) that we're going to keep him for 2-3 years, all it takes is one mistake and his out of here before the season end. How I come to this conclusion.

If you can find fault in a coach with a VERY good winning record and has proven capable of getting teams deep in the playoff and still fired him, you can easily find fault for over 90% of other coaches out there.

Point is we're going to be screwed for a very long time because of our intolerance for failure despite of any progress that is made.

 

[CruzDude]

Kenny Natt is a BAD coach. His lineups, playcalling, and defensive schemes just arent good. Granted I dont know what they are, and I think thats the problem.

Huh?