New York going after Daly?

[Kingster]

I don't understand the not a long term fit arguement. Dally isn't old, especially for a pf/c, and nothing he does is based on athleticism. He should be able to do the same things he's done for a decade for at least the next 5 years. A healthy Camby still has a big impact defensively, and he's 37 or 38. Mutumbo was very good defensively into his late 30's.

And as Cousins matures, and gets better, Dally's job becomes easier. Dally is a top priority to resign, no doubt about it. And so what if he falls off a little in 4 years. Cousins will still only be 24 at that point, still not in his prime, but probably a 2 or 3 time all star by that point, and a top 3 center in the league, if not the best. Notice how Dally's impacted the game more , and his numbers improved, during the final couple months after Cousins also improved over his 1st half play, as did their chemistry.

It's a chemistry thing, not an age thing. Dally's not a long term fit because he's a center and Cousins is a center. Cousins needs a pf next to him, not another center who can't guard guys past 10 feet from the rim. The Cousins/Dally duo doesn't have enough flexibility defensively to work on a consistent basis against teams that have either power forwards or centers that can play outside and take it to the rack. If you could count on Dally being moderately consistent with an efficient inside offensive game, you could live with his defensive indadequacy guarding guys away from the basket. But that's just not the case.

 

[Kingster]

I bet all these naysayers about not overpaying for Dalembert were signing to the same tune when we signed Vlade as a FA. For big guys, more often than not you have to overpay and when you look at the market for those types of players, I am not convinced that we would be over-paying anyway.

The last thing this team needs is to go tight *** at this point. Dalembert is an integral part of out team being successful going forward so unless you can point me in a direction of another player that brings everything to the table that Dalembert does, then its a moot point.

And please don't mention guys like Marc Gasol, Perkins (and aren't Celtics regretting going tight *** there) et al because NONE of them can guard opposition's PFs

Everytime you overpay for players you diminish you flexibility in building your team. It's not about being a tightwad or being a spendthrift; it's about being very careful with your long term contracts.

 

[rhythmless]

It's a chemistry thing, not an age thing. Dally's not a long term fit because he's a center and Cousins is a center. Cousins needs a pf next to him, not another center who can't guard guys past 10 feet from the rim. The Cousins/Dally duo doesn't have enough flexibility defensively to work on a consistent basis against teams that have either power forwards or centers that can play outside and take it to the rack. If you could count on Dally being moderately consistent with an efficient inside offensive game, you could live with his defensive indadequacy guarding guys away from the basket. But that's just not the case.

Worked well last year.

 

[kingofthejungle]

Bismack

If Dally walks, I hope Petrie considers Bismack Biyombo: 18 years old, 6'9", 7'7" wingspan, 9'3" standing reach, and outstanding shot blocker/rebounder. If you can, check out his highlights from the Nike Hoop Summitt. His performance was unbelievable!

Developing Biyomob and Whiteside behind Cousins and Thompson means that the rebuilding process becomes a bit more protracted, but he has the potential to be one of the best low post defenders in the league.

With the above said, the Kings would need to sign a stop-gap big man in the meantime. Perhaps a more offensive minded backup such as Josh McRoberts?

FRONT COURT:
Thompson/Cousins
McRoberts
Biyombo/Whiteside

 

[Kingster]

Worked well last year.

How many wins did we have last year?

I can appreciate that the Cousins-Dally duo worked better than the alternative last year, but for me that doesn't qualify as "working". I just ask the question: Is this duo going to 'work' well enough so that three years down the line this team can be mentioned as a legit contender?I just can't see that. I can see Tyreke, Cousins and Thornton in that picture. Dally I only see as being a role player that works in certain matchups. And I don't want to pay him $10 mill for being a matchup role player.

 

[rainmaker]

It's a chemistry thing, not an age thing. Dally's not a long term fit because he's a center and Cousins is a center. Cousins needs a pf next to him, not another center who can't guard guys past 10 feet from the rim. The Cousins/Dally duo doesn't have enough flexibility defensively to work on a consistent basis against teams that have either power forwards or centers that can play outside and take it to the rack. If you could count on Dally being moderately consistent with an efficient inside offensive game, you could live with his defensive indadequacy guarding guys away from the basket. But that's just not the case.

I was responding to posts regarding Dally's age, and that being the reason he isn't a good longterm fit, which I disagree with. Your opinion on chemistry I disagree with even more. At least talking about Dally at age 33, and how effective he'll be at that point is speculation.

With chemistry, we actually have visible and statistical evidence to go on, which shows as Cousins matured as the season progressed, the Dally/Cousins frontline played better and better, to the point of dominating opposing frontlines. Dally was mobile enough to guard jumpshooting 4's, including Dirk and Aldrige. You're worried about guarding the occasional jumpshooting pf, while I'm pleased we can pound other teams inside and many teams will have a nightmare trying to match up with our twin towers. I'm not worried about guys like Aldrige/Bargnani,Frye beating us with jumpers. I'd me more concerned as a fan of those teams of how they'll match up with our physicality and dominance in the paint.

They were able to control the paint together, control the glass, and improved playing the high-low game together, which opposing frontlines couldn't defend. Our overall team defense improves with both on the floor, and helps control the pace of the game.

I'm also more concerned with matching up with Gasol/Bynum, Perkins/Ibaka and Gasol/Randolph than any jumpshooting bigs. If we become a playoff team in the next 2 years, that's who we have to battle, and maybe for years going forward.

For you to say what you said, you must have evidence which shows we performed worse with both Dally/Cousins on the floor together. I'd like to see that, because everything I've seen suggests differently.

 

[funkykingston]

If Dally walks, I hope Petrie considers Bismack Biyombo

If the Kings don't get a top 2 or 3 pick I hope Geoff considers him whether Dalembert is resigned or not. Let he and Whiteside develop and hopefully one of them reaches their potential as a good compliment to Cousins. Personally I think that pick makes MORE sense if Dalembert comes back.

I'm surprised by the number of people that either don't want Sammy back or who do but think his age an price tag are prohibitive.

Resigning Dalembert (even at say $10 mil a year) won't impact the Kings ability to resign Evans and Cousins. He's a defensive anchor and very solid rebounder who has been very durable and consistent and who should continue to put up the same numbers for the next 4 or 5 years.

Is he a perfect compliment to DeMarcus? No. The perfect compliment would be a long, athletic PF who could guard guys like Nowitzki on the perimeter but also provide great rebounding, be a big time weakside shotblocker and defensive goalie and hit open 15 to 20 foot shots to stop defenses from collapsing. Out of curiosity, how many of those types of guys do you think there are in the league?

Just like Evans, Cousins is an interesting talent who has some undeniable gifts and some notable weaknesses. Just as I don't know that there's an ideal backcourt mate for Tyreke, I'm not sure there's a perfect PF to pair with Cousins - at least not one that is available to the Kings.

I was skeptical about the Cousins/Dalembert pairing but it has worked out much better than I ever thought. Sure, they are susceptible to fleet footed PFs who shoot well from outside, but come on, against how many teams is that a serious concern? Especially in light of the fact that they will outrebound nearly any other teams interior duo. Besides, that situation is exactly why you have a guy like Donte Greene who can guard agile, perimeter oriented 4's.

If the Kings lose Dalembert and Thornton they will have $27 million in committed salary vs a (currently) $58 million cap. Not overpaying is one thing. Letting a guy go when the team is $31 million under the cap and $17 million from even reaching the minimum salary threshold is a bit ridiculous.

Barring a big change to the CBA, Dalembert will get overpaid somewhat, I'm sure. But if that means he returns to the Kings - who he CLEARLY helped out with his presence - and it doesn't stop them from keeping the rest of the young core together then why not?

Who would people rather spend that money on? Nene? Chandler? Neither is a big upgrade on Dalembert to me and both have some of the same limitations PLUS they are pretty likely to resign with their current teams. Or are they thinking that JT should start and that would make the team better? I really don't understand.

 

[sidney]

How many wins did we have last year?

I can appreciate that the Cousins-Dally duo worked better than the alternative last year, but for me that doesn't qualify as "working". I just ask the question: Is this duo going to 'work' well enough so that three years down the line this team can be mentioned as a legit contender?I just can't see that. I can see Tyreke, Cousins and Thornton in that picture. Dally I only see as being a role player that works in certain matchups. And I don't want to pay him $10 mill for being a matchup role player.

Once we got traded Landry and got the rotation solidified, the last 18 games of the season we were 9-9. 7 were road wins.

What team(s) specifically are you so concerned about matching up Cousins / Dalembert / Thompson with?

 

[Warhawk]

I was responding to posts regarding Dally's age, and that being the reason he isn't a good longterm fit, which I disagree with. Your opinion on chemistry I disagree with even more. At least talking about Dally at age 33, and how effective he'll be at that point is speculation.

With chemistry, we actually have visible and statistical evidence to go on, which shows as Cousins matured as the season progressed, the Dally/Cousins frontline played better and better, to the point of dominating opposing frontlines. Dally was mobile enough to guard jumpshooting 4's, including Dirk and Aldrige. You're worried about guarding the occasional jumpshooting pf, while I'm pleased we can pound other teams inside and many teams will have a nightmare trying to match up with our twin towers. I'm not worried about guys like Aldrige/Bargnani,Frye beating us with jumpers. I'd me more concerned as a fan of those teams of how they'll match up with our physicality and dominance in the paint.

They were able to control the paint together, control the glass, and improved playing the high-low game together, which opposing frontlines couldn't defend. Our overall team defense improves with both on the floor, and helps control the pace of the game.

I'm also more concerned with matching up with Gasol/Bynum, Perkins/Ibaka and Gasol/Randolph than any jumpshooting bigs. If we become a playoff team in the next 2 years, that's who we have to battle, and maybe for years going forward.

For you to say what you said, you must have evidence which shows we performed worse with both Dally/Cousins on the floor together. I'd like to see that, because everything I've seen suggests differently.

I agree with this. These two showed signs of really coming together at the end of the year. They rebound well and work well together. Sam needs to stay.

 

[rainmaker]

The other aspect of guarding stretch 4's, is that none of them will beat you unless his name is Dirk. He's the only stretch 4 I'd be worried about, and Dally guarded him more effectively than many pf's do. But the fact is Dirk is unguardable, and a nightmare for every team to match up with. Yet I'm just as confident with Dally guarding him then any other pf in the league. If someone can name a pf who cna guard Dirk, beside KMart(pre-knee injury), I'd love to hear it. There's also the fact that most stretch 4's in this league hurt their own teams on defense more than they help their own team by shooting 20 ft jumpers.

If you want a quick, perimeter oriented pf to guard a guy like Dirk, please name one who is capable? Bargnani? Frye? Bosh(jump shooting 4)? They all suck at defense.

And none of the other stretch 4's in this league will beat you.

 

[Glenn]

Ignore this note.

People in the NBA and Sacramento in particular have no problem with taking advantage of young talents because the rookie series of contracts limit these players to less than what they are worth. Is this arguable? The balancing concept is that when players get older, they may be overpaid. This has been present in most sports for the last 50 years. Older players get big contracts. In 4 years Kobe will make $30 mil. Is he worth it at age 36-37?

Some Sacramento fans want to be the unique set of people who take advantage of young players but are never taken advantage of by older players. In the process, we may very well continue the incredible mediocrity evidenced by this franchise. We can argue about what a player is worth. That could go on into infinity. The reality though is that as a general rule, younger players are paid less than they are worth (you pick the scale) and older players are overpaid.

Something comes with age that is not valued by many fans here. We seem to think speed, jumping ability, and over all athleticism is the sum total of a person's skills. We ignore experience. Been there, done that. Not nervous as something new happens as almost nothing is new. We praise Kidd who has 16 years experience. The Dallas team has 9 players with similar experience to Dally or more. Are they too old? If so, how are you measuring this? They are winning and that should be the goal of a team.

The goal is not to have a great dunk or to run fast or to look lean and trim. It is to win so look at the lineups of teams that go deep into then playoffs. They are older than the ones who fail. It would be spectacular if we signed people to contracts that expired right at the moment their skills expired. How do you do that? You can't control nature, the future, nor the desires of the player.

Specifically, if Dally wants a 5 year contract at $10 mil per year, will he be worth it? Given that this brings him to age 35, given that experience can make up for a loss of physical ability, given that we cannot dictate to Dally what he wants, and given that he is a proven quantity that fits with this team, sign him. Throw in the general idea that big men endure in the league longer than little guys and that this guy has been healthy unlike, let's say, Yao Ming, Sam Bowie, Bill Walton, etc. If he gets too much and the team is better for it, what's the problem? What is the monetary value of what he gives this team in combination with a unique player called Cousins. What if we don't sign Dally and the replacement player doesn't get along with Cousins either on the court or off the court? This cannot be predicted easily.

It is very unlikely given the salary situation of this team that anything within reason paid to Dally will seriously impact this team in a negative way. At the worst, when Cuz and Reke get bigger salaries and no longer are able to be taken advantage of, we will have a high payroll.

Also, we may be fighting for a ring. I want this team to fight for a championship and not be perfect in every contract negotiation, never being taken advantage of and always being the one to take advantage of the players.

 

[Bricklayer]

The other aspect of guarding "stretch 4s" is this: they suck. They don't win jack, and aside from Dirk, who is due to blow a tire anytime now and slide into decline, there is not a one of them that scares a good team. I will take my bigass frontline pounding on some little weenie "stretch 4" inside any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Nor is it as if anybody is suggesting we don't carry PFs on the roster. Last time I checked our 3rd big was JT, our 4th is likely to be replaced, and our 5th is Whiteside. If one of those big mean Channing Fryes is really picking on us so much, and if we don't hit upon the simple tactic of putting our SF on the weenie, there is nothing in the world stopping us inserting a natural PF to cool them off.

And of course all of this is a load of baloney because a) we just got done seeing Dalembert be VERY effective against some of the toughest PF matchups in the league; and b) there are very few "true PFs" who do it any better. You think Carlos Boozer, Chris Bosh, Dirk or Zach Randolph, just to name a promine few still playing basketball right now get better results than Daly does there? If you do you are either kidding yourself or a hopeless zealot. PF has become a defenseless wasteland. Not only Boozer and Bosh and Dirk and Zach, but Amare (if he can ever get away from D'Antoni) and Blatche and Scola and Lee and Landry and Love etc. etc. Dalembert isn't only one of the best defensive centers in the league, when we sent him over to guard PFs he automatically became one of the better PF defenders in the league.

Another news flash BTW -- Cousins is NEVER going to be a shotblocker/interior stud. Never. You don't develop that. You have it or you don't, and if anything it fades with age rather than developing. Which means that Cousins is never going to be able to provide the normal defensive anchor productivity you hope for out of your stud centers. Which means somebody else has to. We found that somebody.

 

[Kingster]

I was responding to posts regarding Dally's age, and that being the reason he isn't a good longterm fit, which I disagree with. Your opinion on chemistry I disagree with even more. At least talking about Dally at age 33, and how effective he'll be at that point is speculation.

With chemistry, we actually have visible and statistical evidence to go on, which shows as Cousins matured as the season progressed, the Dally/Cousins frontline played better and better, to the point of dominating opposing frontlines. Dally was mobile enough to guard jumpshooting 4's, including Dirk and Aldrige. You're worried about guarding the occasional jumpshooting pf, while I'm pleased we can pound other teams inside and many teams will have a nightmare trying to match up with our twin towers. I'm not worried about guys like Aldrige/Bargnani,Frye beating us with jumpers. I'd me more concerned as a fan of those teams of how they'll match up with our physicality and dominance in the paint.

They were able to control the paint together, control the glass, and improved playing the high-low game together, which opposing frontlines couldn't defend. Our overall team defense improves with both on the floor, and helps control the pace of the game.

I'm also more concerned with matching up with Gasol/Bynum, Perkins/Ibaka and Gasol/Randolph than any jumpshooting bigs. If we become a playoff team in the next 2 years, that's who we have to battle, and maybe for years going forward.

For you to say what you said, you must have evidence which shows we performed worse with both Dally/Cousins on the floor together. I'd like to see that, because everything I've seen suggests differently.

It all depends on what you want to pay the guy. Are you willing to pay a one-dimensional very inconsistent offensive player $10 mill a year for five years? Not me. The guy is 30 years old and one night he has stone hands and the next night he can actually find the ball. If they have a stat for "fumbles" he's got to be in the top 10 in the league; maybe the top 5. Maybe he poses an offensive mismatch for four or five teams in the league, and that on every third game that he plays. I dunno. You have a good point though about Aldrich. He did do an excellent job against him. Not against Nowitsky though. Randolph is a jumpshooting big. He works inside and outside. I can understand that after years of inside defensive famine that fans don't want to lose him, but he not the only fish in the sea.

 

[rhythmless]

I can understand that after years of inside defensive famine that fans don't want to lose him, but he not the only fish in the sea.

Which would naturally lead the discussion to... who would you prefer that is younger, more skilled, cheaper, and will come here?

 

[funkykingston]

I can understand that after years of inside defensive famine that fans don't want to lose him, but he not the only fish in the sea.

But that's exactly it. He kinda IS the only fish in our sea. The only guys available in free agency that can bring the rebounding, interior defense and shotblocking of Dalembert are Nene and Chandler. Both of those guys are going to be coveted by their current teams (who have their Bird Rights) and neither is significantly younger than Dalembert who has been much less injury prone than those two.

After that? We could try to sign DeAndre Jordan from the Clippers hoping they wouldn't match our offer. He isn't as good as Dalembert now but he's much younger and should continue to develop. Still, he wouldn't come cheap either and suffers from the same faults you've mentioned with regards to Sammy.

Other than that we'd be looking at gambling on Greg Oden (who Portland may tender with a contract starting at $8.8 million next year) or going after a retread like Dampier.

If there's another option I'm missing, let me know. Because letting Dalembert sign elsewhere so that the Kings can have $31 million in cap room but a major hole in their roster seems like a bad plan to me.

 

[Bricklayer]

But that's exactly it. He kinda IS the only fish in our sea. The only guys available in free agency that can bring the rebounding, interior defense and shotblocking of Dalembert are Nene and Chandler. Both of those guys are going to be coveted by their current teams (who have their Bird Rights) and neither is significantly younger than Dalembert who has been much less injury prone than those two.

While obviously not disagreeing with the general sentiment of your post, I should just note here that Nene is quite good, but he can NOT provide the rebouding or interior defense Daly does. Not what he's about. He's never even averaged 8rebs in a season in 9 years in the league. In fact Daly, in just a smidge over 24 minutes per game, actually averaged more rebounds this past season than Nene has ever managed. Nor is Nene a shotblocler of note. He's capable of getting one here and there, but he's no intimidator.

 

[Kingster]

But that's exactly it. He kinda IS the only fish in our sea. The only guys available in free agency that can bring the rebounding, interior defense and shotblocking of Dalembert are Nene and Chandler. Both of those guys are going to be coveted by their current teams (who have their Bird Rights) and neither is significantly younger than Dalembert who has been much less injury prone than those two.

After that? We could try to sign DeAndre Jordan from the Clippers hoping they wouldn't match our offer. He isn't as good as Dalembert now but he's much younger and should continue to develop. Still, he wouldn't come cheap either and suffers from the same faults you've mentioned with regards to Sammy.

Other than that we'd be looking at gambling on Greg Oden (who Portland may tender with a contract starting at $8.8 million next year) or going after a retread like Dampier.

If there's another option I'm missing, let me know. Because letting Dalembert sign elsewhere so that the Kings can have $31 million in cap room but a major hole in their roster seems like a bad plan to me.

I think it's a mistake to think that the FA pool is the be-all-end-all. The FA pool is far too limiting. It's FA and trades, which may be interconnected with the draft pick. It's not going to be a surprise to me if Petrie's deal(s) involve as much in trade as in just buying a FA outright. It could involve a sign and trade for example. Who are Petrie's targets for acquisition? I have no idea. But I'd be pretty shocked if Petrie is thinking in this duality of Dalembert/No Substitute for Dalembert mode.

 

[vikinginferno]

Another news flash BTW -- Cousins is NEVER going to be a shotblocker/interior stud. Never. You don't develop that. You have it or you don't, and if anything it fades with age rather than developing. Which means that Cousins is never going to be able to provide the normal defensive anchor productivity you hope for out of your stud centers. Which means somebody else has to. We found that somebody.

This really isn't necessarily the case. Yes, he obviously isn't going to ever be a Mutombo defensively, but let me bring a name up for you - Andrew Bogut, who averaged 2.6 blocks per game last season. Why am I bringing him up? Cousins averaged .8 blocks per game last season in 28.5 minutes. Guess what Bogut did his rookie season? That's right- .8 blocks in 28.5 minutes. Bogut even went down to .5 blocks per game his soph season in 34 minutes. Cousins also averaged 1.8 blocks in 23.5 minutes in college. How many did Bogut average his freshman year in college? 1.9. In 35 minutes. This demonstrates the fact that there are a number of guys who don't block a ton of shots early in their career, but as they get in better condition, learn more, and get used to the NBA game, they cane become very good defenders and very solid shotblockers. Don't discount him just yet.

 

[funkykingston]

But the question still stands as to who could be acquired via trade. It's not really a secret that rebounding/shotblocking bigs, especially those younger and cheaper than Dalembert are coveted greatly by the teams that have them.

I'm not sure who Petrie could target that would provide interior defense and compliment Cousins as Dalembert does. But just hypothetically, if that player IS out there and it takes say Casspi, Whiteside and the Kings 1st round pick to get him AS WELL as deciding to let Dalembert get away, is it really worth the cost?

And quite frankly, I'm not sure given this year's draft that the package I outlined would bring you back a player of Dalembert's ability unless the team trading is looking to dump salary. In which case, the Kings are taking on another team's overpaid player because they didn't want to pay to keep their own guy.

I'm not closed minded and I'm certainly willing to hear a better option (in terms of improving the team and not just saving money) than paying market value to keep Dalembert, but I haven't heard a good argument yet.

And I'm sure Petrie is considering what other options exist besides re-signing Dalembert. But I'd be willing to be it's not an either/or scenario. I'd bet it's that re-signing him is priority #1 and here are the contingency plans if we can't do that.

 

[Glenn]

This really isn't necessarily the case. Yes, he obviously isn't going to ever be a Mutombo defensively, but let me bring a name up for you - Andrew Bogut, who averaged 2.6 blocks per game last season. Why am I bringing him up? Cousins averaged .8 blocks per game last season in 28.5 minutes. Guess what Bogut did his rookie season? That's right- .8 blocks in 28.5 minutes. Bogut even went down to .5 blocks per game his soph season in 34 minutes. Cousins also averaged 1.8 blocks in 23.5 minutes in college. How many did Bogut average his freshman year in college? 1.9. In 35 minutes. This demonstrates the fact that there are a number of guys who don't block a ton of shots early in their career, but as they get in better condition, learn more, and get used to the NBA game, they cane become very good defenders and very solid shotblockers. Don't discount him just yet.

He is not going to be a weakside blocker as he isn't quick enough. Anyone his height and reach simply has to raise their arms straight up and get on their tip toes and they can be a force on shot blockeing strong side. He'll get a few if he doesn't reach in. There is part of me who wants him to maintain the weight though as it gives him a different kind of advantage. It's the type of advantage he's used to. He knows how to use a big body. If a little of the baby fat was gone and turned into muscle, all the better. He is not going to be chisled like Howard. He's going to be Cousins and with his skill level, maybe other players will be aspiring to be like him.

I'm agreeing with you, btw. He's not going to break any records but he'll get his proper share.

 

[funkykingston]

This really isn't necessarily the case. Yes, he obviously isn't going to ever be a Mutombo defensively, but let me bring a name up for you - Andrew Bogut, who averaged 2.6 blocks per game last season. Why am I bringing him up? Cousins averaged .8 blocks per game last season in 28.5 minutes. Guess what Bogut did his rookie season? That's right- .8 blocks in 28.5 minutes. Bogut even went down to .5 blocks per game his soph season in 34 minutes. Cousins also averaged 1.8 blocks in 23.5 minutes in college. How many did Bogut average his freshman year in college? 1.9. In 35 minutes. This demonstrates the fact that there are a number of guys who don't block a ton of shots early in their career, but as they get in better condition, learn more, and get used to the NBA game, they cane become very good defenders and very solid shotblockers. Don't discount him just yet.

I can understand your point and it's a good one. Demarcus may be an inch shorter than Bogut but he's actually got a bigger wingspan and standing reach. Sure, Bogut has a larger vert (33" to 23") but that's partly a function of DMC's conditioning and contrary to popular opinion, shotblocking isn't about jumping high but timing and length.

DeMarcus CAN improve as an interiror defender with experience and conditioning and he certainly has the instincts and footwork to be better. Still, he's never going to be a natural shotblocker. He doesn't often even challenge shots, preferring to try to take charges than contest at the rim. He'll never be a big time weakside shotblocker or goalie and Dalembert IS.

Still, I think you may an excellent post regarding Bogut and what is possible in terms of improvement. I don't see Cousins necessarily making the same improvement (I think Bogut has better natural tools/anticipation for blocking shots) but he certainly can get somewhat better if he works at it.

 

[Glenn]

I think it's a mistake to think that the FA pool is the be-all-end-all. The FA pool is far too limiting. It's FA and trades, which may be interconnected with the draft pick. It's not going to be a surprise to me if Petrie's deal(s) involve as much in trade as in just buying a FA outright. It could involve a sign and trade for example. Who are Petrie's targets for acquisition? I have no idea. But I'd be pretty shocked if Petrie is thinking in this duality of Dalembert/No Substitute for Dalembert mode.

I know we'll never agree. If you want to consider all options then every player on the team can be moved or deleted in one fashion or another. My position is that the team was coming together after endless fiddling. It did well at the end of the season. I will bet every player has positive thoughts about next season. Why change anything? There better be a very good reason to break up what is working.

 

[Kingster]

But the question still stands as to who could be acquired via trade. It's not really a secret that rebounding/shotblocking bigs, especially those younger and cheaper than Dalembert are coveted greatly by the teams that have them.

I'm not sure who Petrie could target that would provide interior defense and compliment Cousins as Dalembert does. But just hypothetically, if that player IS out there and it takes say Casspi, Whiteside and the Kings 1st round pick to get him AS WELL as deciding to let Dalembert get away, is it really worth the cost?

And quite frankly, I'm not sure given this year's draft that the package I outlined would bring you back a player of Dalembert's ability unless the team trading is looking to dump salary. In which case, the Kings are taking on another team's overpaid player because they didn't want to pay to keep their own guy.

I'm not closed minded and I'm certainly willing to hear a better option (in terms of improving the team and not just saving money) than paying market value to keep Dalembert, but I haven't heard a good argument yet.

And I'm sure Petrie is considering what other options exist besides re-signing Dalembert. But I'd be willing to be it's not an either/or scenario. I'd bet it's that re-signing him is priority #1 and here are the contingency plans if we can't do that.

We're all dealing with imperfect information here. We don't know really what the market value for Dally is. We don't know really who would be available for trade. To me all we can do reasonably is assess Dally's talent level and try to impute based on experience how much the Kings should pay for him. I've said $10 million/year (as an example) is too much, based on his talent level and his value to the Kings. Others obviously think differently.

 

[funkykingston]

Obviously we don't know what other teams are willing to pay for any free agents or what their asking price might be for guys that Petrie could target if Dalembert isn't resigned. That doesn't preclude us from discussing possibilities and I have yet to hear anyone name ANY player that Petrie could target to acquire to give the team some of what Dalembert does if Sammy isn't brought back.

I don't know what the market will dictate in terms of Dalembert's salary. I guarantee that more than half the teams in the league would throw their MLE at him if that would land him, NY and Miami included. So obviously his market value is at minimum a contract significantly above the MLE to intice him to stay in Sacramento. 4 years $34 million seems like a good first offer. Only a few teams have the cap room to match or better it and if they do then perhaps it drives up his price.

Personally I don't think 4 years $40 million is out of the question. Especially since his contract would end right as the Kings would be looking to spend big money to keep Evans and Cousins together long term.

 

[Kingster]

Obviously we don't know what other teams are willing to pay for any free agents or what their asking price might be for guys that Petrie could target if Dalembert isn't resigned. That doesn't preclude us from discussing possibilities and I have yet to hear anyone name ANY player that Petrie could target to acquire to give the team some of what Dalembert does if Sammy isn't brought back.

I don't know what the market will dictate in terms of Dalembert's salary. I guarantee that more than half the teams in the league would throw their MLE at him if that would land him, NY and Miami included. So obviously his market value is at minimum a contract significantly above the MLE to intice him to stay in Sacramento. 4 years $34 million seems like a good first offer. Only a few teams have the cap room to match or better it and if they do then perhaps it drives up his price.

Personally I don't think 4 years $40 million is out of the question. Especially since his contract would end right as the Kings would be looking to spend big money to keep Evans and Cousins together long term.

I think someone already mentioned Nene. He's a better player and he does provide some of what Dally does and even more of what Dally doesn't have. There. You have it.

 

[funkykingston]

Nene is only a year younger than Dalembert (with a more checkered injury history) and will likely command MORE money, especially since the Kings would have to pry him away from Denver who hold his Bird rights and by all accounts want to keep him.

He IS a better offensive player though not quite as good defensively and signifcantly worse as a rebounder.

I understand that you are reluctant to have the Kings shell out big money for Dalembert (which is a bit ironic considering he'll almost certainly take a pay cut from what he was paid this year when we were at times below the minimum salary requirement) but I still don't see any realistic scenario where he walks as a free agent and the team doesn't get significantly worse for it.

 

[bajaden]

Ignore this note.

People in the NBA and Sacramento in particular have no problem with taking advantage of young talents because the rookie series of contracts limit these players to less than what they are worth. Is this arguable? The balancing concept is that when players get older, they may be overpaid. This has been present in most sports for the last 50 years. Older players get big contracts. In 4 years Kobe will make $30 mil. Is he worth it at age 36-37?

Some Sacramento fans want to be the unique set of people who take advantage of young players but are never taken advantage of by older players. In the process, we may very well continue the incredible mediocrity evidenced by this franchise. We can argue about what a player is worth. That could go on into infinity. The reality though is that as a general rule, younger players are paid less than they are worth (you pick the scale) and older players are overpaid.

Something comes with age that is not valued by many fans here. We seem to think speed, jumping ability, and over all athleticism is the sum total of a person's skills. We ignore experience. Been there, done that. Not nervous as something new happens as almost nothing is new. We praise Kidd who has 16 years experience. The Dallas team has 9 players with similar experience to Dally or more. Are they too old? If so, how are you measuring this? They are winning and that should be the goal of a team.

The goal is not to have a great dunk or to run fast or to look lean and trim. It is to win so look at the lineups of teams that go deep into then playoffs. They are older than the ones who fail. It would be spectacular if we signed people to contracts that expired right at the moment their skills expired. How do you do that? You can't control nature, the future, nor the desires of the player.

Specifically, if Dally wants a 5 year contract at $10 mil per year, will he be worth it? Given that this brings him to age 35, given that experience can make up for a loss of physical ability, given that we cannot dictate to Dally what he wants, and given that he is a proven quantity that fits with this team, sign him. Throw in the general idea that big men endure in the league longer than little guys and that this guy has been healthy unlike, let's say, Yao Ming, Sam Bowie, Bill Walton, etc. If he gets too much and the team is better for it, what's the problem? What is the monetary value of what he gives this team in combination with a unique player called Cousins. What if we don't sign Dally and the replacement player doesn't get along with Cousins either on the court or off the court? This cannot be predicted easily.

It is very unlikely given the salary situation of this team that anything within reason paid to Dally will seriously impact this team in a negative way. At the worst, when Cuz and Reke get bigger salaries and no longer are able to be taken advantage of, we will have a high payroll.

Also, we may be fighting for a ring. I want this team to fight for a championship and not be perfect in every contract negotiation, never being taken advantage of and always being the one to take advantage of the players.

I'm not giving Dalembert a five year contract for 10 mil a year. I'll give him a three year contract for 10 mil a year, and then I'll give him one more year with it being a team option. We have Tyreke and Cousins both tied up for, in Tyreke's case three more years and in Cousins case four more years. I want the end of Dalemberts contract to coinside with the end of either Tryeke's or Cousins contract, so we have some financial flexability. I agree with both Funky and Kingster. They both made good points. Its not just about spending the money, its about who you spend it on, and for how long. Atlanta blew it all on Johnson and now they have no flexability to improve their team. Yes, they're a good team, but they'll never be a championship team.

When you get done putting all your eggs in the basket, you damm well better have a team thats able to contend for a championship, because thats as good as your going to get for a while, at least in adding personell. So yes, lets resign Dalembert! But not at any cost! The minute you get into the mode as a GM that you can't survive without a certain player, and that player isn't a franchise player, your in trouble. I think you always have to plan for the worse case scenario as well as the best.

If I'm the GM, I make Dalembert and offer of 7 mill a year for four years with the last year being a team option. Knowing that I'll end paying more than that. Then I send his agent on his merry way to find a better offer, or the best offer he can find and have him bring it back to me. And if I think beating that offer is reasonable, then I go ahead and beat it. And Wa La, we've resigned Dalembert. But I'm not going to sit down, open my wallet, and say go ahead and take what you want.

If Dalembert wants to forgo the money and play for a possible championship team, then there's nothing I can do then except start looking for that bionic PF that Funky described.

 

[Glenn]

If you think I am saying "sit down, open my wallet, and say go ahead and take what you want," I thinks that's a bit insulting. Where'd you get that? I AM saying there are two sides to a negotiation. This has been beaten to death. I'm done.

 

[sidney]

Look at the recent comps:
Perkins - 5/40M - 26yo
Haywood - 5/42M guaranteed - 31yo

That's the neighborhood we are in.

3 years is very unlikely to happen because another team will just offer a full MLE for 5 years to match or exceed the total dollar amount.

My only strategic preference is that it is a front loaded contract so in 3 years when Tyreke and Cousins are on their new big contracts Dalembert is making less each year.

 

[bajaden]

I can understand your point and it's a good one. Demarcus may be an inch shorter than Bogut but he's actually got a bigger wingspan and standing reach. Sure, Bogut has a larger vert (33" to 23") but that's partly a function of DMC's conditioning and contrary to popular opinion, shotblocking isn't about jumping high but timing and length.

DeMarcus CAN improve as an interiror defender with experience and conditioning and he certainly has the instincts and footwork to be better. Still, he's never going to be a natural shotblocker. He doesn't often even challenge shots, preferring to try to take charges than contest at the rim. He'll never be a big time weakside shotblocker or goalie and Dalembert IS.

Still, I think you may an excellent post regarding Bogut and what is possible in terms of improvement. I don't see Cousins necessarily making the same improvement (I think Bogut has better natural tools/anticipation for blocking shots) but he certainly can get somewhat better if he works at it.

You've brought up something that I've seen mentioned several times now, and I wanted to discuss it a little bit. One is, that at times Cousins doen't challenge shots. And that he tries to take too many charges, and that some times the two may be related. So here's a question. If you have a player, in many cases a guard coming straight down the lane with a head of steam, what is your plan of action?

There are esentially three things you can do. One is simply get out of the way. The other is to move out of the lane, but try and challenge the shot by reaching for the ball or trying to block the ball. I would say that in most cases that seldom leads to a blocked shot. Especially if your name is DeMarcus Cousins. In his case it usually leads to a foul, and of the three choices, its probably the worse one Cousins can make at this stage of his career.

The third choice of course is to try and take a charge. Which is the one he seems to take the most. And which has been successful quite a bit. My point is that when your under the basket and no one has stopped the ball, your in deep do do as they say, and your chance of denying a basket isn't very good. Thats whether your name is Cousins or not. In most cases its the defensive trailer that has the best chance of blocking the shot.

In regards to the rest of the post, I agree about Bogut. I should point out that Kaman averaged 2.8 blocks a game one year as well, but only averaged 0.9 blocks in 22 minutes a game his first year. So yes there's plenty of chance for improvement on the defensive side for Cousins.