Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Lakers now need to go 21-5 to pass us in the standings as long as we play .500 ball
New Trades Vs New Kings
- Thread starter Rob-The-Great
- Start date
Something else overlooked in all of this, Kings are building a culture and just randomly shipping off guys at the deadline (or umm, even a really purposeful move like Haliburton last year) can create sour feelings that might hurt the chances of free agents coming here.
Last week on reddit there was a thread about what fans are jealous of other teams. You know most responses were "getting calls like the Lakers do" or "being a playoff threat" or "having our draft picks" and then there was dozens and dozens of posts about "wish we had come up with the beam". Other teams think they are smart and clever when they beat us and say "we stopped the beam" or try to light their own.
I think there's a chance people might want to come here in a year or two's time. It happened once before. It can happen again. Players know our crowd is special.
Last week on reddit there was a thread about what fans are jealous of other teams. You know most responses were "getting calls like the Lakers do" or "being a playoff threat" or "having our draft picks" and then there was dozens and dozens of posts about "wish we had come up with the beam". Other teams think they are smart and clever when they beat us and say "we stopped the beam" or try to light their own.
I think there's a chance people might want to come here in a year or two's time. It happened once before. It can happen again. Players know our crowd is special.
just imagine if after everything Barnes has been through his reward is getting shipped off for Plumlee and 1400 second rounders.
What do you think he's telling Oubre and Washington about the Kings?
What do you think he's telling Oubre and Washington about the Kings?
An often injured 35 year old player even.
kingsfan101
Starter
I'm not entirely irritated that we didn't make any moves, but thought we could/should have. We have a bunch of expiring contracts (only 9 players on the roster for next year), some guys who are barely playing and will likely not be returning next year. Additionally, we seem to be selling our second round picks anyway. So, perhaps, we could have used these to get someone who can help right now.
These things are always tricky. The guy you send might have value in the locker room, or practice floor. The guy you bring in might take minutes away from a contributing rotation player. So, can't be too down, but the West has surely upgraded, at least in the short term.
And yes, while we should think long term, there are no guarantees in sports. Will we retain Barnes next year, and Sabonis the year after that. Common sense would say yes, particularly for Sabonis, but ultimately, it will be up to him. Some of the teams currently below us have huge number of assets that they might be able to use to upgrade quickly. OKC will get Chet along with tons of picks to an already decent roster. Jazz will be better, and Pelicans might land Lakers lottery pick.
As for teams mortgaging their future, I think big market teams like the Lakers have shown that they are able to steal players and rebuild even in seemingly hopeless situations. Yes, it cost them their 2027 FRP, but they were able to get rid of Russ and add multiple decent players.
On a semi-related note, one has to marvel at this "old" crop of superstars, who are changing the power equation, at least in the short term. Yes, injuries and performance over time is a concern, but I don't think that with the exception of Doncic and Tatum, we have seen any MVP level players been drafted in the last 7-8 years. Here's a list of MVP candidates from BB Ref
https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/mvp.html
LeBron was drafted in 2003, and won his first MVP in 2009 (6 years). That draft was an outlier, but since then we have had Kevin Durant in 2007, Westbrook in 2008, Harden and Curry in 2009, Irving in 2011, Giannis in 2013, Jokic and Embiid in 2014. Irving and Embiid might seem out of place here, since they didn't win MVP (Embiid might still), but I added them since Kyrie has won a championship where he was a critical player, and Embiid has been the only real thing to come out of the process, and is in the MVP conversation each year. So, every 2-3 years, we had one or more MVP level candidates, all of whom are still playing. I haven't even included tons of other players who have been multiple all-stars and have had deep playoff runs, or even Rose, who won an MVP, but didn't have a storied career due to injuries.
By contrast, the results since 2015 have been relatively poor. Other than Doncic and Tatum, there are no real MVP candidates, or even many consistent all-stars. Ja and Zion might step up, but not there yet. This is not a small period. As mentioned above, Bron won his first MVP within 6 years. While he was the exception, Wade, Carmelo, and Bosh from that class were superstars, as was Dwight in 2004, Paul in 2005, Paul George in 2010, Kawahi in 2011, Anthony Davis in 2012 and so on. Most of these guys started getting counted as stars fairly early in their career, and walked the talk. Again, not even counting guys like Dame, or Wall or DMC, who were multiple all-stars, but didn't develop into say top 5 players over a sustained period, either due to injuries, or just sometimes, circumstances around them.
Since 2015 though, results have been quite poor (relatively). Still time, particularly for the last few draft classes, but very few elite level players. So don't crap on 34 years old guys. They young ones haven't earned their stripes yet.
These things are always tricky. The guy you send might have value in the locker room, or practice floor. The guy you bring in might take minutes away from a contributing rotation player. So, can't be too down, but the West has surely upgraded, at least in the short term.
And yes, while we should think long term, there are no guarantees in sports. Will we retain Barnes next year, and Sabonis the year after that. Common sense would say yes, particularly for Sabonis, but ultimately, it will be up to him. Some of the teams currently below us have huge number of assets that they might be able to use to upgrade quickly. OKC will get Chet along with tons of picks to an already decent roster. Jazz will be better, and Pelicans might land Lakers lottery pick.
As for teams mortgaging their future, I think big market teams like the Lakers have shown that they are able to steal players and rebuild even in seemingly hopeless situations. Yes, it cost them their 2027 FRP, but they were able to get rid of Russ and add multiple decent players.
On a semi-related note, one has to marvel at this "old" crop of superstars, who are changing the power equation, at least in the short term. Yes, injuries and performance over time is a concern, but I don't think that with the exception of Doncic and Tatum, we have seen any MVP level players been drafted in the last 7-8 years. Here's a list of MVP candidates from BB Ref
https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/mvp.html
LeBron was drafted in 2003, and won his first MVP in 2009 (6 years). That draft was an outlier, but since then we have had Kevin Durant in 2007, Westbrook in 2008, Harden and Curry in 2009, Irving in 2011, Giannis in 2013, Jokic and Embiid in 2014. Irving and Embiid might seem out of place here, since they didn't win MVP (Embiid might still), but I added them since Kyrie has won a championship where he was a critical player, and Embiid has been the only real thing to come out of the process, and is in the MVP conversation each year. So, every 2-3 years, we had one or more MVP level candidates, all of whom are still playing. I haven't even included tons of other players who have been multiple all-stars and have had deep playoff runs, or even Rose, who won an MVP, but didn't have a storied career due to injuries.
By contrast, the results since 2015 have been relatively poor. Other than Doncic and Tatum, there are no real MVP candidates, or even many consistent all-stars. Ja and Zion might step up, but not there yet. This is not a small period. As mentioned above, Bron won his first MVP within 6 years. While he was the exception, Wade, Carmelo, and Bosh from that class were superstars, as was Dwight in 2004, Paul in 2005, Paul George in 2010, Kawahi in 2011, Anthony Davis in 2012 and so on. Most of these guys started getting counted as stars fairly early in their career, and walked the talk. Again, not even counting guys like Dame, or Wall or DMC, who were multiple all-stars, but didn't develop into say top 5 players over a sustained period, either due to injuries, or just sometimes, circumstances around them.
Since 2015 though, results have been quite poor (relatively). Still time, particularly for the last few draft classes, but very few elite level players. So don't crap on 34 years old guys. They young ones haven't earned their stripes yet.
Dongoodboy
Bench
I don't disagree with the team atmosphere thing. However, this is NBA, at the end of the day it is the ability that matters. Trading player to improve the team is just normal in NBA and it shouldn't be different for Kings players. If trading away some players break the team, then I don't want those guys. Some may bring up the Shumpert trade, that is why that team was going nowhere. They were just bad from coach to GM to players, not because Shupmert being traded.
That being said I am not rooting for a Barnes trade this deadline coz I don't see a trade for a clear upgrade.
To be clear if there was a clear winning deal out there I wouldn't have opposed it, I just don't see a big market for a Barnes right now. He'd have been in one of those hundred second rounder categories, not the mega-star package. Either way we didn't really see any deals where both teams were trying to get better, we saw a lot of cap cutting (something we did take advantage of, to results TBD), and we saw teams trading win now for the future. If we wanted to push our chips in on a win now move it would have meant likely sending Keegan and multiple future first round picks, not Barnes and expirings.
Ozymandias
All-Star
I sure do hope we draw PHX in the first round, lets put the NBA on notice right away in round 1.. Now that the dust has settled I can see the light, thats who I wanna play. Sabonis will punk Ayton. Barnes will punk KD, and Huerter will punk Devin Booker while Fox outwits CP3 every step of the way during end of quarter/clock management scenarios. That seems realistic to me.
Their super old, havent you heard? Disregard KD shooting 56% from the field this season, thats anomalous, he's really actually old or perhaps a more appropriate word to describe him would be -- decrepit. Thats why they called him the Slim Reaper, right? because he's built like the cryptkeeper? Ancient even, we'll run them off the court!
N it's very well known they cant play defense without Mikael Bridges, math proves this irrefutably, Ive got pages of advanced stats to back up this claim!!! Look its data and I put it on an excel spreadsheet so its nice and neat, it must be true and directly applicable to infinite future scenarios!!! so they'll be an easy matchup I think. We might even sweep them. We might even knock them out of the playoffs in a more rude and shocking manner than Luka, Brunson and the Mavs did last year.
Ya know what my only fear is facing the Suns in a series? why, of course, its those damn meddling rotten refs! The true villains of basketball.
Their super old, havent you heard? Disregard KD shooting 56% from the field this season, thats anomalous, he's really actually old or perhaps a more appropriate word to describe him would be -- decrepit. Thats why they called him the Slim Reaper, right? because he's built like the cryptkeeper? Ancient even, we'll run them off the court!
N it's very well known they cant play defense without Mikael Bridges, math proves this irrefutably, Ive got pages of advanced stats to back up this claim!!! Look its data and I put it on an excel spreadsheet so its nice and neat, it must be true and directly applicable to infinite future scenarios!!! so they'll be an easy matchup I think. We might even sweep them. We might even knock them out of the playoffs in a more rude and shocking manner than Luka, Brunson and the Mavs did last year.
Ya know what my only fear is facing the Suns in a series? why, of course, its those damn meddling rotten refs! The true villains of basketball.
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I don't think we had enough to compete for that KD package. I think Keegan+Barnes+however many FRP (likely minimum 3) would get you in the range of Beal/Siakam/OG/Mikal Bridges/Lavine level of star. Would anyone actually have been happy with that?
For Barnes straight up, there's just not going to be a deal where we get a better player back because of how important he is to the locker room. Even like for a Bojan flip...what's the point?
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed
PorchSurfin
Starter
All those players have age and mileage.
PorchSurfin
Starter
https://www.yahoo.com/news/phoenix-suns-fans-lament-losing-155103603.html
I like Cam Johnson, although the Kings already picked up Murray who's a similar type player with a bit better defense.
I like Cam Johnson, although the Kings already picked up Murray who's a similar type player with a bit better defense.
Forgot all about Bojan. Can't believe DET hung on to him. I'm sure they're waiting for a better offer but this dude is 33 and having a career year offensively. Strike while the iron is hot.
Could have gotten themselves another center!
I dont think either of those are going to happen.....Kings are gonna to be a few under .500 the remainder and the Lakers *might* be @ .500.
What makes people think the Kings will be under .500 the remainder of the way? They could I guess but they are also mostly playing well given their record. Heck, some of these other teams have gone on massive losing streaks.
And it’s not a given that the trades teams have made are going to work out in their favor. They still have to fit the pieces together vs Kings being together and knowing their system. Will be interesting
And it’s not a given that the trades teams have made are going to work out in their favor. They still have to fit the pieces together vs Kings being together and knowing their system. Will be interesting
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
I think it's just fatalism bred by seventeen straight years of sucking. Kings fans just believe things are going to go totally wrong because that's how things have been in the past. It's like an abused dog spending its first night in the home of a new loving owner.
Rest of the schedule is pretty brutal. Basically playoff team after playoff team with only a few winnable games on paper in between. I'll be pretty elated if they're able to hold .500 from here on out. There's really no more tanking for Wemby teams left on the schedule that they can beat up on.
The good thing is that they pulled out ahead in 3rd place so at least they have some room for slippage here.
I know people think this is just pessimism talking but the Kings have been really luckily to win a handful of games against legitimately good teams that happened to have their best players out when we played them. If these upcoming teams have their best players healthy, it's going to be a lot more difficult to keep up the same winning percentage. I don't think that take is rooted in anything other than realism.
macadocious
Starter
So I did a rudimentary numbers system to address what I think teams did at the deadline. +1 minor upgrade +2 major upgrade. 0 net neutral. -1 small downgrade -2 major downgrade.
Strangely, on how I mathed it, it comes out to zero. I guess you could say clippers got better and trailblazers didn't get worse and it would be more positive. I'm not sure it hurts our SOS much, except that the Suns game probably went from very winnable to very losable.
Strangely, on how I mathed it, it comes out to zero. I guess you could say clippers got better and trailblazers didn't get worse and it would be more positive. I'm not sure it hurts our SOS much, except that the Suns game probably went from very winnable to very losable.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
The Suns game we have in a few days isn’t going to have KD in it and Booker still might be out so that’s definitely one we’re gonna lose by 30.
QWERTYLICIOUS
Starter
Sadly, no truer words could be written (or spoken).
edit - nevermind Tetsujin covered it
Padrino
All-Star
Interestingly, I'm not sure if a bunch of west teams "leveling up" at the deadline really impacts the Kings' finish to the season all that much. I mean, it's becoming a running joke around these parts that when the opposition is on the second night of a back-to-back and/or is missing key players, it's a schedule loss for the Kings. For whatever reason, they're not really built to exploit those weaknesses. The Kings are poor enough defensively that they give up big games to both star players and much-less-than-star players.
Their success is just so driven by their offensive system. When the offense is humming, they're a very difficult team to keep up with, but when it performs below standard, the Kings end up in really tight games. They win some of those and they lose some of those. And when the offense performs well below standard, their defense can't make up the difference and they get blown out. Fortunately, blowouts have been a rarity this season.
I think that system-dependence might also explain why the Kings home and away records are more or less even. It's almost as if it doesn't matter who they play or where. I don't want to downplay the luck the Kings have had with ducking stars who were injured, but it seems to me that a much more important factor has been whether or not teams are able to muck up the Kings offense.
They live and die by their adherence to the system and their shooters performing up to expectations. If the offense is crackling in the final 28 games, then I'd expect the Kings to go at least .500 in that stretch.
King special right here.
Pimpis Zajoba
G-League
49 players traded
Kingz19
Hall of Famer
I can’t really argue with that but the bench is pretty weak and lacks versatility. I didn’t want them to touch the starting lineup
Kingster
Hall of Famer
I'm totally looking at the opposite side of the coin: Given the Kings' proficient offense, the Kings success (or not) is driven by their energy (or not) on the defensive end of the floor. Sure, if they can't hit the broadside of a barn, defensive energy won't matter, but 80+% of the time when they have average to good offense it's about defensive effort. I use Fox as a "tell" in every game. If I see him put out defensive energy in the first quarter, I feel the Kings have a good chance of winning. If I see him in awol defensive mode in the first quarter, I don't feel good about the prospects of the game, especially if the Kings are playing a playoff contending team. The factor that is going to be most important for the rest of the season: How much are they willing to sacrifice to win?
Padrino kind of summed up my feelings. My belief is that if Huerter and Keegan are knocking down their shots/3’s or Monk is going on a heater or Barnes, it doesn’t really matter who we play. And I see McNair came out and addressed as much.
I anticipate some of these guys getting rested up during the all-star break and coming out and lighting it up again. I mean I’ve seen the Kings go head to head with the best teams. They are capable.
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