NBA Lottery Thread

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Reverend said:
Ehhh I think Wagner’s ceiling is somewhere close to Gordon Hayward, would you consider Hayward to be a role player?
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Yes. a high caliber role player but a role player nonetheless. At least the Hayward that exists post ankle snap.
 
Tetsujin said:
Yes. a high caliber role player but a role player nonetheless. At least the Hayward that exists post ankle snap.
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So a Draymond esque effect than, would you be happy with that at 9? Personally, I think Wagner is gonna be alright but I’m just making a point that high end role players are extremely valuable in the league
 
Reverend said:
So a Draymond esque effect than, would you be happy with that at 9? Personally, I think Wagner is gonna be alright but I’m just making a point that high end role players are extremely valuable in the league
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I mean, I’d be happy with Wagner as our pick but not at the expense of Barnes/Moody/Jalen though.
 
Tetsujin said:
Luka wasn’t a big man coming into an ever increasingly wing/guard oriented league though.
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Not a defense of the pick but 2018 was going to be "The rebirth of the big man" ... Aside from Luka it was Ayton, Bagley, JJJ and Bamba.

I don't know why we didn't at least work out JJJ if we were intent to go big. Not that he wouldn't be incurring the same wrath. I just can't believe we got tunnel vision like that.
 
Reverend said:
Ehhh I think Wagner’s ceiling is somewhere close to Gordon Hayward, would you consider Hayward to be a role player?
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I don't think Hayward is a roleplayer but I don't think Wagner is going to have nearly the ball handling and passing skills as Hayward either.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
Not a defense of the pick but 2018 was going to be "The rebirth of the big man" ... Aside from Luka it was Ayton, Bagley, JJJ and Bamba.

I don't know why we didn't at least work out JJJ if we were intent to go big. Not that he wouldn't be incurring the same wrath. I just can't believe we got tunnel vision like that.
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JJJ has proven to be just as injury prone as Bagley so at least we dodged that bullet (by running into the path of a runaway train)
 
NiNetNiNe said:
Really comparing Sengun to Papa G? Didn't know he won MVP of his league at 18. Comparing a guy who put up better stats than pretty much any big man coming out of Europe at 18 vs a guy who barely played on his team. It's like the crazy Luka comparisons, not that I'm saying he will be as good as Luka coming in, but it's crazy to compare Sengun to Papa G.
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Oh I forgot the bar is your one on one showdowns with legends like Jan Vesely. And Papa G had some potential folks. Terrible pick but there was a reason he jumped if you look at him now. You'd have to see where Papa G at that age would rank on a team like Besitkas instead of Panathinaikos and vice versa.
 
NiNetNiNe said:
And that makes a Papa G and Sengun comparison fine?
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When it was in relation to how THIS FRANCHISE TREATED A "SKILL BIG", yes. I'm not saying Sengun is Papa G but the same argument could have been made for him as a pick.

And yes, Luka was never not going to be a top pick. He was ranked number 1 at times. Sengun could go number 1, who knows but I never saw Luke ranked mid 1st to 2nd round on any mocks once the world saw him.
 
Tetsujin said:
JJJ has proven to be just as injury prone as Bagley so at least we dodged that bullet (by running into the path of a runaway train)
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I can't imagine his defense would be all that much better when he did play if he was stuck in our all time worst in the NBA scheme. But maybe we wouldn't have gone all in on Dedmon that time we had some cap money and looked promising.
 
SacTownKid said:
When it was in relation to how THIS FRANCHISE TREATED A "SKILL BIG", yes. I'm not saying Sengun is Papa G but the same argument could have been made for him as a pick.

And yes, Luka was never not going to be a top pick. He was ranked number 1 at times. Sengun could go number 1, who knows but I never saw Luke ranked mid 1st to 2nd round on any mocks once the world saw him.
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Luka’s team never force fed him to ball to showcase him like Sengun’s did either.
 
I also like the idea of Wagner for the help in the ball IQ department. I think adding Tyrese was a start but we need more and more of these types of players. The two separate 9 game losing streaks show we need players with better bball iq who are willing to compete and he checks just about all boxes for me
 
SacTownKid said:
Oh I forgot the bar is your one on one showdowns with legends like Jan Vesely. And Papa G had some potential folks. Terrible pick but there was a reason he jumped if you look at him now. You'd have to see where Papa G at that age would rank on a team like Besitkas instead of Panathinaikos and vice versa.
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I never said Papa G didn't have talent. He had talent and from some videos I've seen he has really worked himself into form, I'm happy for him and hope he gets another shot.

What's wrong with dominating his league? Fact remains he dominated a professional league that it steps above the NCAA. Should I dismiss NCAA players for playing against other NCAA players and not dominating?
 
SacTownKid said:
Not Wagner and Kispert. They are developed. Which also limits their potential somewhat. Barnes comes in ready to play NBA defense with his tools and having gone to a school that plays NBA switch defense primarily. Giddey is another one of those Aussie players that are going to be prepared as well as possible. Look at LaMelo, it really helped him a ton. Sengun has a long way to go. No way does Walton play him with where his defense is at. No way.
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Wagner and Kispert aren't going to be projects but I think they'll struggle against the physicality of NBA players.

Giddey has a lot of potential but the concern I have for him is similar to how I felt about Lonzo Ball. It's hard to be a primary ballhandler and create for other players if you're not a threat to score. Guys will just play off you and dare you to shoot it.

I've already talked about why I'm not high on Barnes. He's got a long ways to go with his scoring before he belongs on an NBA floor. There have been success stories in the past and maybe he's got some of that Draymond Green energy where he's so good at everything else that it doesn't matter that he can't score but I think he's going to struggle, especially if he goes into a situation where he's hyped up as a cornerstone player.

Kai Jones is one of those players who is more of an athlete than a basketball player to me. He's a catch and finish big with poor defensive fundamentals. We've already wasted half a dozen first round picks on similar players and none of them panned out.

And Sengun doesn't look like an elite NBA talent to me. I think he's an elite international player who is a fringe player in the NBA where the game has moved more to the perimeter and bigs need to be able to do more than play in the post. He can handle a little bit but not well enough for it to be more than a novelty. And even when I look at his highlights most of what he's having success with right now is going to get shut down against NBA strength and quickness. Maybe I'm way off here but he's not a gamble I'd be willing to take.
 
Reverend said:
I also like the idea of Wagner for the help in the ball IQ department. I think adding Tyrese was a start but we need more and more of these types of players. The two separate 9 game losing streaks show we need players with better bball iq who are willing to compete and he checks just about all boxes for me
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And Wagner is a fail safe since they are keeping Walton. Walton won't bench that dude. He'll rely heavily on him so there's a chance his value as a 9 pick will be achieved.
 
Wake me up when we get a couple weeks out from the draft. I know nothing about these prospects this year other than we wanted to be top 5.
 
NiNetNiNe said:
I never said Papa G didn't have talent. He had talent and from some videos I've seen he has really worked himself into form, I'm happy for him and hope he gets another shot.

What's wrong with dominating his league? Fact remains he dominated a professional league that it steps above the NCAA. Should I dismiss NCAA players for playing against other NCAA players and not dominating?
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No but you also shouldn't overcalculate it's actual impact either. Yes, as a top option Sengun dominated. The question is what does he do when 4th or 5th option is his calling card?
 
SacTownKid said:
No but you also shouldn't overcalculate it's actual impact either. Yes, as a top option Sengun dominated. The question is what does he do when 4th or 5th option is his calling card?
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We can't know that. But we know he has the skills to be a facilitator since he also averages the most assists for a big man in his league.
 
hrdboild said:
Wagner and Kispert aren't going to be projects but I think they'll struggle against the physicality of NBA players.

Giddey has a lot of potential but the concern I have for him is similar to how I felt about Lonzo Ball. It's hard to be a primary ballhandler and create for other players if you're not a threat to score. Guys will just play off you and dare you to shoot it.

I've already talked about why I'm not high on Barnes. He's got a long ways to go with his scoring before he belongs on an NBA floor. There have been success stories in the past and maybe he's got some of that Draymond Green energy where he's so good at everything else that it doesn't matter that he can't score but I think he's going to struggle, especially if he goes into a situation where he's hyped up as a cornerstone player.

Kai Jones is one of those players who is more of an athlete than a basketball player to me. He's a catch and finish big with poor defensive fundamentals. We've already wasted half a dozen first round picks on similar players and none of them panned out.

And Sengun doesn't look like an elite NBA talent to me. I think he's an elite international player who is a fringe player in the NBA where the game has moved more to the perimeter and bigs need to be able to do more than play in the post. He can handle a little bit but not well enough for it to be more than a novelty. And even when I look at his highlights most of what he's having success with right now is going to get shut down against NBA strength and quickness. Maybe I'm way off here but he's not a gamble I'd be willing to take.
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I don't think they will to the point of it being a major negative. Maybe athletically but Wagner especially is an aggressive defender and Kispert is a sturdy type.
 
NiNetNiNe said:
We can't know that. But we know he has the skills to be a facilitator since he also averages the most assists for a big man in his league.
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Well I've watched a few of his games recently and after watching that defense I surefire can guess what Walton will do when in that role. And the value goes down from day 1.
 
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