NBA Beat: Grading the off-season

VF21 said:
piksi - If Peja is improving every year, perhaps this will finally be the year he actually shows up in the playoffs?

I'm sorry for being snide, but you're confusing natural talent with being a "gym rat," something which Peja has not been.

I am not going to continue to try and get you to understand that you're using the term incorrectly.

Peja wasn't even in the country, so I cannot for the life of me imagine him being a gym rat, spending hour after hour after hour at the practice facility, working on his game.

Bibby and Bobby are gym rats. Peja isn't. It's that simple.
raises hand...I know I know what a gym rat is vf....its VLADE!
 

piksi

Hall of Famer
VF21 said:
piksi - If Peja is improving every year, perhaps this will finally be the year he actually shows up in the playoffs?

I'm sorry for being snide, but you're confusing natural talent with being a "gym rat," something which Peja has not been.

I am not going to continue to try and get you to understand that you're using the term incorrectly.

Peja wasn't even in the country, so I cannot for the life of me imagine him being a gym rat, spending hour after hour after hour at the practice facility, working on his game.

Bibby and Bobby are gym rats. Peja isn't. It's that simple.
At the moment it is very questionable wheather Peja will be King comming PO (shame if You ask me)
Other countries have gyms too. Just because You can not imagine something does not mean it is impossible. 3 Years ago I could not imagine Kings without a ring in the near future and yet...
 
piksi said:
At the moment it is very questionable wheather Peja will be King comming PO (shame if You ask me)
Other countries have gyms too. Just because You can not imagine something does not mean it is impossible. 3 Years ago I could not imagine Kings without a ring in the near future and yet...
Peja has a contract if the kings don't want to trade him he has to suck up and play.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
HndsmCelt said:
Tom Swift was right about paradoy being lost on 90% readers (shakes head and leaves forum)
I liked your post. Unfortunately, we don't have an emoticon to show when sarcasm or parody goes right over someone's head.

piksi - I'll be the one to break it to you. Celt was pulling your leg. He was using exaggeration to prove a point. There are no legendary games with J-Will...or anything else to show that Peja has EVER spent hours in the gym working on his game, at least not while he's been a King.
 
VF21 said:
I liked your post. Unfortunately, we don't have an emoticon to show when sarcasm or parody goes right over someone's head.

piksi - I'll be the one to break it to you. Celt was pulling your leg. He was using exaggeration to prove a point. There are no legendary games with J-Will...or anything else to show that Peja has EVER spent hours in the gym working on his game, at least not while he's been a King.
Wellcome to the 10%
 
VF21 said:
I liked your post. Unfortunately, we don't have an emoticon to show when sarcasm or parody goes right over someone's head.

piksi - I'll be the one to break it to you. Celt was pulling your leg. He was using exaggeration to prove a point. There are no legendary games with J-Will...or anything else to show that Peja has EVER spent hours in the gym working on his game, at least not while he's been a King.
Aaaah celt I was lost on that one sorry....


delayed laughter from ILV....
 
Bball_Fan said:
This is either a dumbfest or a Chriss Webber/ Bill Clinton fan club.

What I am saying is you are either dumb or disingenuine. If 6 months ago I posed a quetion on this board if you would trade Vlade for Tag you'd laugh me off.
What does Webb have to do with a discussion about Tag and Vlade (or Bill Clinton???)

We didn't TRADE anyone. Vlade walked. If you would have asked me if we wanted to add some interior defense, I would undoubtedly have said, yes. Let's not forget, we traded for Brad to REPLACE Vlade when Vlade either A. retired or B. left. Tag is NOT Vlade's replacement. He is the BACKUP Center
 

piksi

Hall of Famer
VF21 said:
I liked your post. Unfortunately, we don't have an emoticon to show when sarcasm or parody goes right over someone's head.

piksi - I'll be the one to break it to you. Celt was pulling your leg. He was using exaggeration to prove a point. There are no legendary games with J-Will...or anything else to show that Peja has EVER spent hours in the gym working on his game, at least not while he's been a King.
hence my response.

Everybody knows that J Will idolized Vlades work etics in practice, so in order for something like that to work, one has to be more credible. J. Will does not help there.

I agree with You that there is no emoticon for sarcasam. I would get myself less in trouble it we had one.
 
piksi said:
hence my response.

Everybody knows that J Will idolized Vlades work etics in practice, so in order for something like that to work, one has to be more credible. J. Will does not help there.

I agree with You that there is no emoticon for sarcasam. I would get myself less in trouble it we had one.
actually constantly showing a bias for a certain class of players it probably what causes the problem.
 
VF21 said:
Ah, sorry...


I'd really be interested, now that I think about it, in hearing how Peja Stojakovic can be defined as a "gym rat."
I don't know if Peja is a gym rat. I know if I had a supermodel wife and a new baby, I probably wouldn't be spending all my free time at the gym.

But it IS fair to say that the last several years Peja has sacrificed a fair portion of the NBA offseason to play for his national team and presumably did spend an above average amount of time honing his game.
 
But it IS fair to say that the last several years Peja has sacrificed a fair portion of the NBA offseason to play for his national team and presumably did spend an above average amount of time honing his game.
Actually, one of the reasons many people wanted Peja to not play for his national team (the primary ones being rest and no threat of injury) was so he could work on other aspects of his game, adding moves to his repetoire. Playing for the National team is much the same as playing the NBA season in that you spend your time playing, doing the things you are good at, not much time to really practice on improving your weaknesses.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
thedofd said:
I don't know if Peja is a gym rat. I know if I had a supermodel wife and a new baby, I probably wouldn't be spending all my free time at the gym.

But it IS fair to say that the last several years Peja has sacrificed a fair portion of the NBA offseason to play for his national team and presumably did spend an above average amount of time honing his game.
Sacrificed? To us, perhaps, but to most Europeans playing for their national team is an honor and privilege. In fact, many of them view competition on the world stage to be MUCH MORE important than an NBA title.

Peja hasn't sacrificed anything, IMHO.

Don't get me wrong, please. I like Peja, I really do. But I find it problematic that some of his fans are so against admitting he's less than perfect.

Peja is a pure shooter. He's got a sweet, sweet shot from outside. What he doesn't have is a killer instinct. And I say again there is no way I could call him a "gym rat." Those guys (aformentioned gymnasium rodents) are all about one thing - their games. Peja isn't like that. Again, that's not necessarily a problem unless people try to attribute qualities to him and his dedication to the game of basketball that just aren't there.
 
VF21 said:
Sacrificed? To us, perhaps, but to most Europeans playing for their national team is an honor and privilege. In fact, many of them view competition on the world stage to be MUCH MORE important than an NBA title.

Peja hasn't sacrificed anything, IMHO.
Perhaps I used the word sacrifice because I'm American; that playing for the national team is an honor and a privilege seems to be lost on many top (American) NBA players.

I don't know what Peja's view of playing for the national team is or was; perhaps he was honored, perhaps he felt obligated. Regardless -- and this is the point I was trying to make -- he was playing lots and lots of basketball during the offseason.

I don't know if we're defining "gym rat" by the number of pilates he does, how many reps he's doing on the bench press or some other standard. But if he's shooting hundreds or thousands of jump shots to keep his stroke sweet, great.

I hope he spends at least part of this summer contemplating what a mistake it would be to try to force a breakup of the Kings because he had his feelings hurt, then comes to camp with a good attitude, determined to take out whatever frustration he has on whoever the Kings are playing.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
thedofd said:
I hope he spends at least part of this summer contemplating what a mistake it would be to try to force a breakup of the Kings because he had his feelings hurt, then comes to camp with a good attitude, determined to take out whatever frustration he has on whoever the Kings are playing.
On that we are in total and complete agreement!

GO KINGS!!!
 
piksi said:
No it was not a guess. You do not have any facts either. My facts - would be his steady improvement every year. Every year he getts better at something. He is not done yet.
Let me ask You a question - how comes that somebody (according to you) who is not a gym rat improves steadyly ove a longer period of time - and on the other hand an other players who are supposed to be "working" hard still can not "guard a chair" and only "hit every othe free throw."
I am sure that You remeber Peja when he first came to the Kings. Now how is it possible for somebody to develop so much without working hard. Nobody is really that talented.
Additionally, I have heard Adelman praising Peja's work etics many times.
You can't call Peja a gym rat without proof. By the same principle, I can't say that he's NOT a gym rat without proof to the contrary.

But I will tell you this: Peja just got married to a beautiful woman, just had his first child, and has spent a good portion of his summer contemplating where he'll be playing basketball in two years. I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't spending much time in the gym; I wouldn't be upset, either. Life is more important than this game that we all love so much.

That having been said, Peja has improved at things that he was already good at. In Greece, he was already a good shooter, and now he's gotten better. He gets his shot off quicker, and he's even more accurate than he was before. But that's NOT evidence of actually working on his game in order to improve; that's evidence of him playing a lot of basketball and just naturally improving his craft. If you're a painter, you get better with time. But you also get better and widen your area of expertise with actual individual practice, developing new skills and adding them to your repertoire. Peja hasn't shown evidence of that in the past four or five years.

The things I'd like to see him do are develop a post up move or two so that defenders the likes of Bruce Bowen and Trenton Hassell can't take him out of his entire game during the playoffs, become more proficient at putting the ball on the floor, drawing a double team and finding the open man, and rebounding. I don't care much to see him improve his jumpshot or his free throw percentage.

Regarding Webber's free throws, I think his hard work is evidenced by the fact that his free throw percentage went up from 61% (unacceptable!) to 71% (better, not where it could be) in one year. You don't make improvements like that without working at it. And you certainly don't come back from a career-threatening injury/operation in ten months without putting in some gym time. You can criticize a lot of things about Webber, but I don't think taking digs at his workout habits is the route you want to take.
 
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I don't care how strong or how hard you work out, if you can't make you're free throws you're not doing the right kind of work.

We are talking about basketball, right?
 
71% is making free throws. Especially when you consider the fact that he was shooting 61% the year before...

And yes, we're talking about basketball. You do realize that Tim Duncan won his second MVP while shooting just 71% from the line, right?
 
Yes and Tim Duncan needs to work on his free-throws as well.

71% is alright with me. If he can hold it the whole regular season and the playoffs. So far Webber has had one decent year from the stripe, and another 1/4 of a year. For someone getting paid as much as he does to play b-ball, I would expect a little more.

I can't say that Peja is a Gym rat though, I do know that he is a very good shooter from everywhere and that doesn't come from sitting around all the time. I think you have to work on it a little to be as good as he it.
 
allrightythen said:
Yes and Tim Duncan needs to work on his free-throws as well.

71% is alright with me. If he can hold it the whole regular season and the playoffs. So far Webber has had one decent year from the stripe, and another 1/4 of a year. For someone getting paid as much as he does to play b-ball, I would expect a little more.
Indubitably. I said last season that I expected him to shoot 70% from the line, and he did. I expect the same thing this season. All it takes is practice, developing a good free throw routine and training your body to do the same thing at the line every time.

I can't say that Peja is a Gym rat though, I do know that he is a very good shooter from everywhere and that doesn't come from sitting around all the time. I think you have to work on it a little to be as good as he it.
It comes from shooting. Practicing shooting isn't practicing basketball. I know a lot of old white guys who can shoot from everywhere because they have a knack for putting the ball in the whole. Peja has a knack for putting the ball in the whole, and he's 6'10" and has been playing year round for about 6 years now. It's not surprising that he can knock it down from 28 feet out.

But he still needs to put some time in working on some moves for the smaller defenders that caused him trouble last season (Brevin F. Knight!) and for the bigger defenders that try to keep him from getting his shot off. Peja can be a lot better than he is, but the fact that he still has a largely one-dimensional game leads me to believe that he doesn't do much to improve his overall game. He couldn't be a better shooter; he could be a better player.
 
Superman said:
It comes from shooting. Practicing shooting isn't practicing basketball. I know a lot of old white guys who can shoot from everywhere because they have a knack for putting the ball in the whole. Peja has a knack for putting the ball in the whole, and he's 6'10" and has been playing year round for about 6 years now. It's not surprising that he can knock it down from 28 feet out.

But he still needs to put some time in working on some moves for the smaller defenders that caused him trouble last season (Brevin F. Knight!) and for the bigger defenders that try to keep him from getting his shot off. Peja can be a lot better than he is, but the fact that he still has a largely one-dimensional game leads me to believe that he doesn't do much to improve his overall game. He couldn't be a better shooter; he could be a better player.
I will agree with you that Peja can become a better player. He could definitely use an inside game (against the smaller guys), and a little more creativity of his own against the bigger guys. I wonder what has kept him from it thus far. He has shown that he can play tough interior defense when the situation calls for it, so I can't imagine why that same toughness doesn't show up (at least occasionally) on the other end.

Anyway, Peja does seem to work on basketball all year round, whether he's tried to learn these new tricks, I don't know. For the future's sake I hope he hasn't tried at all until this summer and we'll see a whole new multi-dimensional Peja this year. A fan can only hope and wait, right.

Go Kings, whoever they might be!