NBA Beat: Grading the off-season

#61
thedofd said:
I might have been thinking of Franklin Edwards, who's coaching an AAU team in Sacto, so I've heard.
Wow, Franklin Edwards...man I wish we never made that trade with the Clippers for him and Derek Smith. Mike Woodson and Larry Drew were way better for us than them. Oh well, ya had to love Joe Axelson.
 
#62
Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't think that Miller/Ostertag/Songaila would be all that terrible for a few games this year. There are only two or three teams in the West that I would be uncomfortable playing with that lineup and only two (at most) in the East. I think the Kings can and will do fine if Webber misses 15-20 games during the regular season, especially if everyone else is healthy. If the playoffs come and there are still serious health issues I will start to worry.

I think the biggest knock on Chris Webber on the court is that he's not there enough. When he's there he's great. I definitely expect him to miss a couple of games, but I'm hoping they come sometime early to mid-season and by the end he has it all out of his system and things are back to normal. To be honest, it wouldn't bother me if they rested him again on a back-to-back like they did at the end of last year, but I hope thats not needed at this point.

To me the Kings' offseason should be graded by the doctors instead of the basketball heads. I don't of many things in sports that can be more frustrating than having "arguably" the best team in your respective sport, but never being able to see them perform all healthy at the same time when it matters most. I'm not a doctor, so I will give them an "Inc" for incomplete.
 

piksi

Hall of Famer
#63
thedofd said:
Is your feeling that internal dissention will force a trade? Are you merely playing a hunch, or do you have inside info?
I do not have insider info but just the way things are going - something has got to give here.
 

piksi

Hall of Famer
#64
allrightythen said:
Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't think that Miller/Ostertag/Songaila would be all that terrible for a few games this year. There are only two or three teams in the West that I would be uncomfortable playing with that lineup and only two (at most) in the East.
How much is few games ?

Considering that Ostertag is a specialist for early foul problems - I feel very uncomfortable with that thought. Also that would cut the rotation even shorter. We allready have players playing 40 + minutes.
 
#65
It's not as if we have never played with a back up Center who was a foul magnet. Scot got whistled for moving to the scorers table to check in.:)
 

piksi

Hall of Famer
#66
Kingsgurl said:
It's not as if we have never played with a back up Center who was a foul magnet. Scot got whistled for moving to the scorers table to check in.:)
That is true but we were talking about a situation where one of ours big man getts injured which would promote Ostertag into the starter
 
#67
piksi said:
That is true but we were talking about a situation where one of ours big man getts injured which would promote Ostertag into the starter
I know exactly what we were talking about, perhaps you have forgotten Scot started 29 games in the 02 season, due to exactly that type of injury? Scot was at least as big a foul magnet as Tag, hence the comparison.
 
#68
And considering the fact that 'Tag is a career starter for nine years, I'm at least as confident with him starting a few games as I was with Scot starting a few games.
 

piksi

Hall of Famer
#69
Superman said:
And considering the fact that 'Tag is a career starter for nine years, I'm at least as confident with him starting a few games as I was with Scot starting a few games.
key word being few games
 
#70
29 is a few? We managed to limp to a 61 win season with Scot Pollard starting 29 games for an injured CWebb that year. Tag should be able to handle the starting duties at center, sliding Brad to PF, should the need arise.
 

piksi

Hall of Famer
#71
Kingsgurl said:
29 is a few? We managed to limp to a 61 win season with Scot Pollard starting 29 games for an injured CWebb that year. Tag should be able to handle the starting duties at center, sliding Brad to PF, should the need arise.
We had Vlade
 
#72
I think that we should be fine with the line up that we have even in the case of a injury to our regular starters. In case of Webber having to sit out, the trio of Miller, Ostertag and Songiala should be able to get the work done at the center and PF positions. Anyways there is hardly and team in NBA which has all starters who are of All-Star level.
 
#73
Kingsgurl said:
29 is a few? We managed to limp to a 61 win season with Scot Pollard starting 29 games for an injured CWebb that year. Tag should be able to handle the starting duties at center, sliding Brad to PF, should the need arise.
I don't have a problem with 'Tags and Brad playing together for a limited period of time. Brad has shown he can step out and shoot and, to some degree, guard power forwards (other than perhaps Kevin Garnett, who no one can guard). Ostertag is about as good as it gets for backup centers and -- in a testament to the dearth of good big men in the NBA -- is probably top 15 as a starter.

The depth beyond that is where I get worried. Songaila certainly can contribute, but the Kings don't have the versatility they've had in the past with a Turkoglu, Keon Clark or even Funderburke. That's why I'm hoping they'll get a Rodney White or Marcus Fizer for that last spot rather than some "project" they find during training camp.
 
#74
piksi said:
We had Vlade
and now we have Brad. Thedofd is correct, where it gets worrisome is who is going to back up those minutes if Tag is moved into the starting line up. I think it likely a 3/4 position player will be the final roster spot for just those reasons.
 
#75
I think Brad/Ostertag is close to as good offensively as Vlade/Pollard was, and probably better defensively. Songaila coming off the bench is probably a step behind Fundeburke, especially offensively, but it wouldn't be the end of the world. As long as Brad and Peja can survive without Vlade on the court, we can survive for a couple/few weeks in the event Webber gets hurt or needs rest.

That having been said, we wouldn't be able to start 43-15 without him, not this season. Vlade's 5+ assists per game last season were a big part of what we were able to accomplish offensively, and we'd miss that. But it doesn't look like we're going to have to play too many games without Webber, so hopefully this is all null and void.
 

piksi

Hall of Famer
#76
Superman said:
That having been said, we wouldn't be able to start 43-15 without him, not this season. Vlade's 5+ assists per game last season were a big part of what we were able to accomplish offensively, and we'd miss that. But it doesn't look like we're going to have to play too many games without Webber, so hopefully this is all null and void.
43 - 15 adds up to about 58 games so that is a pretty long "start" in the season ;) .

Everything else - time will tell.
 
#77
Superman said:
That having been said, we wouldn't be able to start 43-15 without him, not this season. Vlade's 5+ assists per game last season were a big part of what we were able to accomplish offensively, and we'd miss that. But it doesn't look like we're going to have to play too many games without Webber, so hopefully this is all null and void.
I wonder if one of the reasons the Kings were willing to let Vlade go was the idea that both Divac and CWebb are at their best when the offense runs through them. Since Miller had shown he could fit into the Kings' style of play and do some of the same things as Vlade, they could let Divac go in favor of Ostertag, a guy who doesn't need the ball on offense and (potentially) addresses the need for more interior defense, toughness and solid screens.

By the way, heard from an insider that CWebb and BJax have made several appearances at the practice facility and look healthy. Peja is about the only player that hasn't made multiple appearances this summer -- fine with me, as long as he's ready to go to work and not make waves come training camp.
 

piksi

Hall of Famer
#78
thedofd said:
I wonder if one of the reasons the Kings were willing to let Vlade go was the idea that both Divac and CWebb are at their best when the offense runs through them. Since Miller had shown he could fit into the Kings' style of play and do some of the same things as Vlade, they could let Divac go in favor of Ostertag, a guy who doesn't need the ball on offense and (potentially) addresses the need for more interior defense, toughness and solid screens.

By the way, heard from an insider that CWebb and BJax have made several appearances at the practice facility and look healthy. Peja is about the only player that hasn't made multiple appearances this summer -- fine with me, as long as he's ready to go to work and not make waves come training camp.
Peja is a gym rat so I think that he is trying to avoid certain company rather than practice.
 
#80
piksi said:
Peja is a gym rat so I think that he is trying to avoid certain company rather than practice.
I guess he could be avoiding Chris, it does seem to be his MO, hide from the problem instead of addressing it head on. However, I rarely have heard Peja's name mentioned in the group of players that frequent the practice facility in the off season anyway, so it's not that unusual.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#81
piksi said:
Peja is a gym rat ...
{Insert emoticon of VF21 rolling on the floor laughing so hard she's crying...}

Oh, please. During the entire time Peja Stojakovic has played on the Sacramento Kings, I have NEVER heard him referred to as a gym rat. That term is for guys like Bobby J, Mike, etc. NOT for Peja.

I don't care if Peja refuses to dress in the same locker room as long as he remembers what he's being paid a lot of money to do during game time. This whole idea some people seem to have about Peja and his fragile little psyche is ludicrous at best and sure paints a picture of someone who can't face adversity, etc.

If he has a problem with Webber - or anyone else - why doesn't he suck it up and confront them about it? What are they going to do? Ambush him on the playground after school?

:eek: :rolleyes:
 

piksi

Hall of Famer
#83
Kingsgurl said:
I guess he could be avoiding Chris, it does seem to be his MO, hide from the problem instead of addressing it head on. However, I rarely have heard Peja's name mentioned in the group of players that frequent the practice facility in the off season anyway, so it's not that unusual.
Maybe because he generally does not spend his summers on this continent.
 

piksi

Hall of Famer
#84
VF21 said:
I don't care if Peja refuses to dress in the same locker room as long as he remembers what he's being paid a lot of money to do during game time. This whole idea some people seem to have about Peja and his fragile little psyche is ludicrous at best and sure paints a picture of someone who can't face adversity, etc.

:eek: :rolleyes:
Peja Stojakovic has faced nothing but adversities in the last 15 years starting with a war in which he and his family lost everything. In fact You can not even begin to imagine the adversities he has faced to get where he is now. From where I stand he has done well so far and he will continue do do well.
Everything else I can not comment without getting myself into trouble.
 
#85
Too much speculation!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think that Webber and Peja should give some joint public appearance, kissing :D :D each other or something like that and get all this behind them.

Whatever it is, I think that once the season starts and we start getting a few wins under the belt things should be much better between them.
 
#86
Once the season starts, it will not matter who said what or who dissapeared when. New season, new attitude. We have a great team (even without Vlade) and I am very excited to see Webber start a season healthy and try to stay healthy. If Webber stays healthy and Peja stays Peja, they should have enough confidence in each other that come playoffs time there will be no need for name calling/disapearing.

Soon enough we will forget all the Peja/Webb drama and start bashing Adelman (haven't heard his name mentioned in a while :) ). No matter how well we play there will always be someone to blame (except Bibby of course - he can never do wrong in my wifes eyes)
 
#87
piksi said:
Peja Stojakovic has faced nothing but adversities in the last 15 years starting with a war in which he and his family lost everything. In fact You can not even begin to imagine the adversities he has faced to get where he is now. From where I stand he has done well so far and he will continue do do well.
Everything else I can not comment without getting myself into trouble.
At the risk of sounding insensitive, cry me a river.

We're talking about basketball. If Peja can live through a war and every other adversity imaginable for the past 15 years, he should be able to confront Chris Webber, Doug Christie, Bobby Jackson and the GD antichrist head on, not staying away from the practice facility because 'he wants to avoid certain company'. Give me a ******' break.

And like you said, the reason he's not often seen at the practice facility is because he most often spends his offseasons out of the country. And that's probably the major reason he hasn't been seen too often this summer, not because he can't stand to be around Chris Webber.

This is a big joke, if you ask me. If Peja Stojakovic can't take a little honest-hearted criticism from someone who wants to win and wants to play basketball with him, then I don't want to hear about the adversities that he's lived through for the past 15 years. This is basketball, not civil war.

:: steps down off soapbox and walks away ::
 
#88
War or no war, it doesn't matter. I think arguably, some of the NBA players growing up in poverty and or "dangerous" neighborhoods can have just as much emotional effect on a personality.

I doubt that Peja himself would ever play "I lived through war" card to take any blame of of his performance or actions (on/off court).

I don't think it effects you ability to perform your job in one way or another.
 
#89
VF21 said:
Bringing in Tag brought us rebounding and shot blocking AND someone who can actually levitate more than 2 inches off the court.
Ostertag never struck me as quite a levitator. What he lacks in athletic ability, he will hopefully make up by bringing some interior toughness. He also shoots about 55% from the line and average 0.5 assists per game :(

From jazz fans, I've heard ostertag is a very inconsistent player. I hope he finds some inspiration playing for the kings. Hopefully, Adelman won't be having to go through this...

Jazz Coach Jerry Sloan, ripping center Greg Ostertag for getting no rebounds in 33 minutes against Minnesota: “If you’re going to be 7-feet tall, you can’t play like you’re 6-1. ... I don’t know what else I have to say or do. I’m not going to beg. I’m not going to kiss his feet to play, I’m not going to go that far. But I will kiss anywhere else he needs kissed if that will help him play.” :D