My two cents

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#31
I hope Vivek and the FO realize they've entered some treacherous waters when VF is starting threads like this.

It's one thing when a-holes like myself and a few others say what we say, post what we post, as it's generally within our personalities to question, to not just trust because we were told, even approach with general pessimism, but when you get the most optimistic of Kings fans in VF to call you out on your BS, only weeks after the entire fanbase was pumped up and full of excitement, you better take a long hard look in the mirror.

And VF is right, our FO and ownership are right on the cusp of burning all their goodwill.
 
#33
I love the Kings. I'm like everyone, but my optimism lasts a little longer. No doubt, it's disheartening to see our team with no direction right now. Someone said it up there, if it all works out at the end, it'll be worth it. Patience sucks, but I hope it does pay off. Right now, it's sad to be a Kings fan.
 
#35
I could not have stated the sentiment that I believe a majority of the Kings fans here have better than what is stated by VF21. We here all love the Kings. Mostly the people who post on here are PASSIONATE Kings fans. I am a PASSIONATE Kings fan. I can only afford to go to a game or 2 due to my circumstances, but I watch every single game. Even if I have to record the game and I KNOW they lost I STILL watch the friggin game !! I want to see the tiny improvements by each player and build a case in my mind about how this season is gonna be different. I have done that every year for SO many years. Every season I create this FANATICAL THEORY about how they are somehow gonna win 40 or 50 games and sneak into the playoffs and have an incredible miracle run thru the playoffs.

The beginning of this season did have that insidious four letter "H" word permeating all of the Kings talk. I was excited that this year they could make strides toward being a competitive team ! The fanatical theory was beginning to form in my mind how against all odds they would win more than the 35 wins I was predicting (Logic is SOOO not a Fan Trait !), and I was beginning to see a young team and a young coach really coming together. Sure there were still a lot of holes in the lineup, but they were working hard and playing hard. That is ALL I ever wanted to see in my Kings. I just want to see them work hard and be rewarded for that hard work !

Then Boogie goes down with a disease that may be seen on an injury report once every decade ! I was decidedly depressed about it, but I figured they could weather the storm and when he came back they could go on a good run and remain in the race. Then the news came. They fired Malone for no apparent reason other than personality clashes with the GM. I was stunned. I was flabbergasted ! Why on EARTH would you fire a coach who was WINNING? I suspected they had a new coach waiting in the wings who was so good they could not wait till even the all star break. But then the news comes that they do NOT have a deal in place for a new coach and that Ty Corbin (A coach who had failed miserably in Utah. A coach the Maloofs would have hired) was going to coach for the rest of the season ?!?!?!?!! Now I was just plain MAD ! Vivek ! If you are a man of your word and really want to build a winner then start acting like it ! Hire a real coach and stop being cheap at the expense of this season !!! This team needs a REAL COACH NOW !!!
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#36
I have once again reached that point where I now don't expect anything from the team but still walk away disappointed.
 
#37
Couple of things.

1. First I don't care about what I hear too much, care more about what I see. Things like the 4 on 5 probably taken out of context, the gibberish being spoke about Malone and the team direction, Jazz etc. I saw a GM and a coach that did not mesh together at all.

So I blame the owner, for the initial decision, he made a change, I'll see what happens next.

2. This roster is a relative mess and work in progress. Even if we were playing well I was hoping to either dump or improve the Thompson/Landry situation, and was thankful little long term salary was added besides the Gay extension which I thought was good. Figured it would take another year or two to get things where they needed to be.

3. Have been surprised Collison has played so well, was thankful it looks like letting IT go was the right decision.

4. McLemore finally looks worth the pick, I pretty much gave up on the guy.

5. Have liked Stauskas ability to shoot, was worried it would be another Jimmer situation, but it may take a lot of time but he is going to be capable athletically to have a shot in this league.

6. So the owner hosed Malone, he won't say "I fudged up and hired the coach before the GM" but he will say all sorts of bs to avoid saying that. Some of you guys trying to make sense of the quotes need to remember how full of garbage the Maloof's quotes were. Pete's not going to tell you Vivek messed up, nor is Vivek. He had to hose one of them, should he have let Pete go instead of Malone? Maybe, or maybe he has someone else in mind.

I'm not sure what some of you guys expected, we should have collectively seen last season that the Pete/Malone relationship was not going to work, not going to act surprised though or tell you to like it. But many of you knew those two would have a fall out eventually.

I waited what was it 10 years or so for Richmond to finally take us to a playoff game, watched us get hosed by the refs when we had a shot. Watched the team almost leave. Not gonna get too excited about much right now good or bad.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#38
5. Have liked Stauskas ability to shoot, was worried it would be another Jimmer situation, but it may take a lot of time but he is going to be capable athletically to have a shot in this league.
Jimmer's problem, from what I can see, is that he's not quick enough or tall enough to get his shot off whenever he wants to in the NBA. That makes him a spot-up shooter only which has limited rotational value. He played well in brief spurts but his skillset limits when and where you can actually use him. I don't think Nik has that problem. He's a better ballhandler and he's a full-sized shooting guard. His problem right now is lack of confidence in his jump shot. He simply defers to everyone else when he needs to recognize that he's on the floor to make shots. Same thing with the defense. He's still finding the right balance between over-aggressive and over-passive. He started the season out playing aggressively on defense and he got whistled for fouls on every other play. Now he's playing further back and providing no resistance at all. It's a common rookie problem. Give him more time to adjust, I think he'll be an important player down the line.

I'm not sure what some of you guys expected, we should have collectively seen last season that the Pete/Malone relationship was not going to work, not going to act surprised though or tell you to like it. But many of you knew those two would have a fall out eventually.
That's true. As soon as Vivek hired his own head coach and then proceeded to interview GMs, people were already sensing a potential GM/Coach conflict developing. Bringing in a strong-minded defense-first coach and then a GM who was an understudy in Golden State and Denver, two franchises that are notorious for under-valuing defense, was throwing gas on the fire. I think all of us knew intuitively that there would eventually be a problem with the front-office dividing into factions, but I had at least hoped that Malone completely transforming the locker-room and getting this team playing the best basketball we've seen in almost a decade would mean his job is secure. I never thought a first-time GM would be bold enough to fire a coach in the middle of the season and say the wins and losses didn't matter, just the style of play. That's pretty unprecedented.

In retrospect, it should have been obvious that Mullin and Pete would join forces since they had a pre-existing working relationship in Golden State. And it should have been obvious that Vivek is always going to listen to Chris Mullin -- which is a problem considering his track record as a GM is questionable. In fact, I'm going to be uneasy about this front office for as long as Mullin remains involved. As others have said, his current position as "advisor" gives him all of the authority of GM without any of the accountability.
 
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#39
This is worse than the last 8 years or so that we've been bad.

At least we were bad because we were bad. Bad coaches, bad talent and cheap owners.

Now we actually have enough talent to compete for the 8th seed and we're going to be just as bad as those previous 8 years.

It's disheartening because we have no shot at all under Vivek. Even the Maloofs wouldn't have screwed up this situation. At least they were smart enough to just let it ride until it succeeded or broke. Even the damn Maloofs knew that winning basketball = excitement and money.

Vivek is on another planet. None of us can even comprehend the stupidity of his decisions. It's unfathomable how dumb this whole ordeal has been.

VF21 is the #1 kool-aid drinker on this site and when she's down, you know the team is headed toward some dark places.
 
#40
I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but I loved Malone and he is one hell of a coach. He was only in his second year as a head coach, and he too was figuring things out like his players. The only way this can semi-rectify this is the hiring of George Karl.

The only decision that I kept questions is why he insisted putting in Sessions over Ray Mac, esp. since Ray Mac looked more ready to contribute. Other than that, I knew coming to this year we weren't going to be elite. Hell, we weren't going to be good. We have a solid starting 5 and a bad bench. If anything, I question way more decisions of PDA than I do Malone: trading away Lopez, signing Landry to that contract, trading away Luc mbah, giving away Ellington, etc.... I also do praise PDA for making very good moves as well: resigning Demarcus and Gay, signing Collison, drafting ben Mac, etc....I really wish that Vikek would hold off firing Malone until after the season, but even I as an impatient fan whose favorite sports teams are enjoying championship success, I knew that this would be a four year project. I just wish that Vikek would had shared the same vision like most of us had.

But what's done is done. This team is too far off from making the playoffs. They need a few pieces, but a good coach should coach them into the playoffs next nba season.
 
#42
This is worse than the last 8 years or so that we've been bad.

At least we were bad because we were bad. Bad coaches, bad talent and cheap owners.

Now we actually have enough talent to compete for the 8th seed and we're going to be just as bad as those previous 8 years.

It's disheartening because we have no shot at all under Vivek. Even the Maloofs wouldn't have screwed up this situation. At least they were smart enough to just let it ride until it succeeded or broke. Even the damn Maloofs knew that winning basketball = excitement and money.

Vivek is on another planet. None of us can even comprehend the stupidity of his decisions. It's unfathomable how dumb this whole ordeal has been.

VF21 is the #1 kool-aid drinker on this site and when she's down, you know the team is headed toward some dark places.
Your comment reminded me of this. Imagine Vivek as Sovereign:
 
#43
Jimmer's problem, from what I can see, is that he's not quick enough or tall enough to get his shot off whenever he wants to in the NBA. That makes him a spot-up shooter only which has limited rotational value. He played well in brief spurts but his skillset limits when and where you can actually use him. I don't think Nik has that problem. He's a better ballhandler and he's a full-sized shooting guard. His problem right now is lack of confidence in his jump shot. He simply defers to everyone else when he needs to recognize that he's on the floor to make shots. Same thing with the defense. He's still finding the right balance between over-aggressive and over-passive. He started the season out playing aggressively on defense and he got whistled for fouls on every other play. Now he's playing further back and providing no resistance at all. It's a common rookie problem. Give him more time to adjust, I think he'll be an important player down the line.



That's true. As soon as Vivek hired his own head coach and then proceeded to interview GMs, people were already sensing a potential GM/Coach conflict developing. Bringing in a strong-minded defense-first coach and then a GM who was an understudy in Golden State and Denver, two franchises that are notorious for under-valuing defense, was throwing gas on the fire. I think all of us knew intuitively that there would eventually be a problem with the front-office dividing into factions, but I had at least hoped that Malone completely transforming the locker-room and getting this team playing the best basketball we've seen in almost a decade would mean his job is secure. I never thought a first-time GM would be bold enough to fire a coach in the middle of the season and say the wins and losses didn't matter, just the style of play. That's pretty unprecedented.

In retrospect, it should have been obvious that Mullin and Pete would join forces since they had a pre-existing working relationship in Golden State. And it should have been obvious that Vivek is always going to listen to Chris Mullin -- which is a problem considering his track record as a GM is questionable. In fact, I'm going to be uneasy about this front office for as long as Mullin remains involved. As others have said, his current position as "advisor" gives him all of the authority of GM without any of the accountability.
I'd have to agree with the Mullin assessment. Not a fan of his GM record, nor do I think he is going to be a good head coach. It is possible he can coach, but I've got no reference point to assume anything over concern.

As far as Nik, I agree with what you said too. But I am relieved that time/experience and some mental issues are what's up, and not a guy who just is not going to be able to hang athletically. Also his skill set is there, he is not like some of the project athletic freaks who for whatever reason can't make much of an NBA career either. I look forward to his progress.

Mullin could be a major concern always near the owner, but not having much if any accountability.
 
#44
I may be the only one that frequents this board that is not really even bothered by the Malone dismissal, and I liked the guy as our coach. I did not see him as the next Red Auerbach though and I am still very much enjoying this season. We have both DMC and Rudy signed. They are a fun duo to watch. DC looks good and heck, even BMac is looking much better. I would not be surprised if there are more moves to improve our talent even further.

I totally enjoyed watching us beat the Lakers and seeing Kobe look foolish a couple of times in the process. I would not doubt that there are many more enjoyable times from the Kings this season.

I think that it would be a shame if strong fans did not enjoy this process because of a decision that was made by the FO.
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#45
I may be the only one that frequents this board that is not really even bothered by the Malone dismissal, and I liked the guy as our coach. I did not see him as the next Red Auerbach though and I am still very much enjoying this season.
Why do people keep comparing Malone to Auerbach? Since when did that become the standard? Adelman isn't/wasn't Auerbach either. Neither is George Karl for that matter.

All Malone had to be was better than the likes of Westy, Smart, Theus, Muscleman and the likes of Ty Corbin, which he is/was. All he had to be was better than the alternative. He was.

If there was an actual upgrade in place, people wouldn't be so pissed.
 
#46
Why do people keep comparing Malone to Auerbach? Since when did that become the standard? Adelman isn't/wasn't Auerbach either. Neither is George Karl for that matter.

All Malone had to be was better than the likes of Westy, Smart, Theus, Muscleman and the likes of Ty Corbin, which he is/was. All he had to be was better than the alternative. He was.

If there was an actual upgrade in place, people wouldn't be so pissed.
There is an upgrade in place though! It's Chris Mullin and NBA3.0 Jazzball
 
#47
Why do people keep comparing Malone to Auerbach? Since when did that become the standard? Adelman isn't/wasn't Auerbach either. Neither is George Karl for that matter.

All Malone had to be was better than the likes of Westy, Smart, Theus, Muscleman and the likes of Ty Corbin, which he is/was. All he had to be was better than the alternative. He was.

If there was an actual upgrade in place, people wouldn't be so pissed.
The problem here is that they aren't looking for an upgrade. They didn't say they needed a better coach to win more games or have a better shot at the playoffs. They didn't say they were looking to upgrade at all. They specifically said they're looking to change the style of play and it didn't matter what the win/loss record was.

That's the frightening part of this whole deal.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#48
Most that know me, also know that like VF21, I tend to be optimistic, or at worse, try to cut whomever, a player, a GM, a coach, or an owner more slack than the average fan on this forum does. Even Westphal, who I disliked from the get go. I've learned to be a patient person when it comes to basketball. History shows that building a team takes time. But when I see were headed in the wrong direction, or worse, we were going in the right direction, hit the brakes, and made a U-Turn in order to go in the wrong direction, you've just lost me.

Vivek and PDA are trying to re-invent the wheel when it doesn't need re-inventing. It is, at the end of the day, still a freaking wheel. All it needs is some cleaning, and in today's world, maybe a change of rubber. I realize that Vivek likes to think outside the box, but, being a business man, isn't selling the product the bottom line? And in order to sell the product, don't you have to know who your customers are? What their expectations are? Isn't it their money thats fuels the engine?

In the 50's and 60"s, when Japan got into the auto market in the US, they were thinking outside the box. But they didn't try to re-invent the automobile. For one thing, they realized that people were already sold on what was there. It was a matter of what shape and color appealed to you the most. So they decided to change the little things that no one was paying attention to. Like a little spring that held your brake line out of harms way. They tried to make the engines more efficient. They didn't try to make a different machine, they tried to make a better machine. Vivek is trying to make a different machine. I wish him luck, but he can do it without me.

I hope I'm wrong about this. I hope we're all wrong. My question to Vivek would be, who are you trying to please, your customer base, or yourself? What's that old saying, "The customer is always right"? Shouldn't he/she come first? Are you a business man, or an ideologist? How many failed experiments did Edison have before he succeeded? Five thousand? Ten thousand? Well while your on experiment number two, we Kings fans have already gone through a few thousand experiments, and frankly, were getting a little weary. Might I remind you, that if we wanted a team like the Warriors, we have such a team just 70 miles down the road. And, I might add, that team is starting to look more appealing by the minute.

Vivek likes to point out that he has surrounded himself with great basketball minds. I would like to point out to him, that they all appear to be of like mind. How many in the organization have opposing points of view? The only one of note, Malone, just got fired! Are you surrounded by great basketball minds, or just a group of yes men? I can't honestly answer that question. I can't tell Mullins he doesn't know anything about basketball. But I do know that a great player doesn't always make for a great coach, or GM. As a matter of fact, history tells us that some of the greatest coaches, were just average players at best. Riley and Jackson spring to mind. Steve Kerr might be the latest example. Time will tell.

Damage has been done, but it's not irreparable. Hire George Karl, and make it appear that was your intent all along. Publicly slap PDA across the knuckles with a drum stick for saying, it isn't about winning, it's about style. Believe it or not, we freaking care about winning, even if it's winning ugly. Get the wins, the style can come later. Winning is a culture you have to develop. So is losing! Winners go into every game believing their going to win, and that's half the battle. Losers go into every game hoping their going to win. Develop the culture first, anyway you can. Then worry about style. Show us you really are a smart guy. Show us your not just a rich guy with a new toy.

By the way, a smart guy would already know that Corbin isn't the answer. We know that, and we assume you know that. So stop with the BS already. Here's another clue for you. Just about every fan on this forum knows more about basketball than you do. I've been watching NBA basketball for over fifty years. And I'm not alone here. So when you or your organization try to blow smoke up our butts, your losing our respect. A true visionary is flexible. He's not locked into one idea. Right now, your swimming upstream. Much easier the other way. Just watch out for the waterfalls.
 
#49
Most that know me, also know that like VF21, I tend to be optimistic, or at worse, try to cut whomever, a player, a GM, a coach, or an owner more slack than the average fan on this forum does. Even Westphal, who I disliked from the get go. I've learned to be a patient person when it comes to basketball. History shows that building a team takes time. But when I see were headed in the wrong direction, or worse, we were going in the right direction, hit the brakes, and made a U-Turn in order to go in the wrong direction, you've just lost me.

Vivek and PDA are trying to re-invent the wheel when it doesn't need re-inventing. It is, at the end of the day, still a freaking wheel. All it needs is some cleaning, and in today's world, maybe a change of rubber. I realize that Vivek likes to think outside the box, but, being a business man, isn't selling the product the bottom line? And in order to sell the product, don't you have to know who your customers are? What their expectations are? Isn't it their money thats fuels the engine?

In the 50's and 60"s, when Japan got into the auto market in the US, they were thinking outside the box. But they didn't try to re-invent the automobile. For one thing, they realized that people were already sold on what was there. It was a matter of what shape and color appealed to you the most. So they decided to change the little things that no one was paying attention to. Like a little spring that held your brake line out of harms way. They tried to make the engines more efficient. They didn't try to make a different machine, they tried to make a better machine. Vivek is trying to make a different machine. I wish him luck, but he can do it without me.

I hope I'm wrong about this. I hope we're all wrong. My question to Vivek would be, who are you trying to please, your customer base, or yourself? What's that old saying, "The customer is always right"? Shouldn't he/she come first? Are you a business man, or an ideologist? How many failed experiments did Edison have before he succeeded? Five thousand? Ten thousand? Well while your on experiment number two, we Kings fans have already gone through a few thousand experiments, and frankly, were getting a little weary. Might I remind you, that if we wanted a team like the Warriors, we have such a team just 70 miles down the road. And, I might add, that team is starting to look more appealing by the minute.

Vivek likes to point out that he has surrounded himself with great basketball minds. I would like to point out to him, that they all appear to be of like mind. How many in the organization have opposing points of view? The only one of note, Malone, just got fired! Are you surrounded by great basketball minds, or just a group of yes men? I can't honestly answer that question. I can't tell Mullins he doesn't know anything about basketball. But I do know that a great player doesn't always make for a great coach, or GM. As a matter of fact, history tells us that some of the greatest coaches, were just average players at best. Riley and Jackson spring to mind. Steve Kerr might be the latest example. Time will tell.

Damage has been done, but it's not irreparable. Hire George Karl, and make it appear that was your intent all along. Publicly slap PDA across the knuckles with a drum stick for saying, it isn't about winning, it's about style. Believe it or not, we freaking care about winning, even if it's winning ugly. Get the wins, the style can come later. Winning is a culture you have to develop. So is losing! Winners go into every game believing their going to win, and that's half the battle. Losers go into every game hoping their going to win. Develop the culture first, anyway you can. Then worry about style. Show us you really are a smart guy. Show us your not just a rich guy with a new toy.

By the way, a smart guy would already know that Corbin isn't the answer. We know that, and we assume you know that. So stop with the BS already. Here's another clue for you. Just about every fan on this forum knows more about basketball than you do. I've been watching NBA basketball for over fifty years. And I'm not alone here. So when you or your organization try to blow smoke up our butts, your losing our respect. A true visionary is flexible. He's not locked into one idea. Right now, your swimming upstream. Much easier the other way. Just watch out for the waterfalls.
bravo.
 
#50
Hey Guys,

Long time lurker here and have never posted. But I just can't get over this whole 4 on 5 Jazz Hands up-tempo BS. DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS, PERIOD!

Many posters have already stated exactly how I feel but I would like to bring up two additional things.

1. I am surprised Mike D' Antoni's name has not been brought up by our wonderful front office. I know, yech.
2. I had to vent somewhere but of course I could not find Vivek's or Gerbil's e-mail. So I went on the King's official site and sent an e-mail to the ticket office stating my displeasure and that I will not be buying any tickets this season. I encourage everyone else to the same: tickets@kings.com

Thanks for listening and I hope I have not broken any forum etiquette in the process.