SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Marcus Thornton is being seriously underrated lately. This deal is ghastly.
MT + 5th to Charlotte for MKG
- Thread starter andjel
- Start date
Anthony1
Bench
First off, the idea of including Thornton in various trades is just bonkers, I don't even want to get started about that. Only way you even consider trading Thornton, is if we have Beal, and then if we are trading Thornton, were going to turn him into a promising SF, or pair him with JT and get a better 4.
Now... on to what I really wanted to talk about. You say that the chances of MKG or Robinson falling to us is 5 percent. I strongly disagree with that. The only player that we have zero chance of seeing at 5 is Davis. The other 4 guys are in play. My first guess would be that Drummond slips. However.... if he looks good in workouts, he will be a top 3 guy. Anything can happen. Honestly, of all those players, I think Robinson has the best chance of being there at 5, but I'm beginning to think that he might be one of the worst possible fits alongside Cousins. Still, I think I take him over Barnes, or try to trade back. BPA over fit every day of the week. Position situations will eventually work themselves out.
I'd put the odds like this:
1. Robinson - 45 percent chance
2. Drummond - 30 percent chance
3. Beal - 25 percent chance
4. MKG - 20 percent chance
5. Davis - 0.0000000000000000000000000 percent chance
Glenn
Hall of Famer
The interesting thing about Drummond is that he will probably look like an uber athlete at the combine. His problem is not his athleticism but his motivation and that shows only in a game context. I personally hope he gets drafted before we have a chance to pick. It just drops a more desireable player down to us.
Boogie-havoc
Bench
I like the idea, but this is without a doubt too much value for MKG, all due respect.
I do support the idea of trading up for him though both for us and for the Bobcats(Unless they're mad inlove with one of MKG, Robinson, Drummond, Barnes) - question is what's the sweetener we realistically can offer in such situation.
I do support the idea of trading up for him though both for us and for the Bobcats(Unless they're mad inlove with one of MKG, Robinson, Drummond, Barnes) - question is what's the sweetener we realistically can offer in such situation.
ParniValjak
All-Star
What about this slightly adjusted trade from the opening post.
Thornton and Pick 5 to Charlotte
Biyombo and Pick 2 to Sacramento
Why Charlotte do it?
At pick 2 they won't get a franchise changer so with this trade they still stay inside top 5 picks where they can get a player they would like. In Thornton they get one of the best young SGs in the league who gives them a very good player now. Charlotte would lose Biyombo but with the 5th pick they might be able to get Drummond as a replacement. Walking away with Thornton and Drummond would be a great result for them going forward. Charlotte also has a history of trading on draft day for scoring SG (they traded Brandan Wright for Jason Richardson a few years back and for Corey Maggate last year).
Why Sacramento do it?
We have cheap owners and many holes to fill. We desperately need a shotblocker and a SF. We need serious help defensively. It frees up money to re-sign JT and add more pieces to the puzzle. In Biyombo we get a young shotblocker to pair with Cousins for years to come and form a nice 3 big man rotation in Cousins - Biyombo and JT going forward. We address the SF need by adding the ultimate glue guy who will play with high energy and be a terrific defender in the NBA. We fill our holes on the cheap and remove the need for shots going forward. IT would like more shots, Jimmer would like more shots and Salmons would like more shots (we are stuck with him as no one will want to trade for him and we won't amnesty him as our owners can't afford it).
The downside is that we don't get better shooting the ball but we free up some cap space to re-sign JT and still have enough money to add more shooting by signing a role playing FA.
IT
Reke
MKG
Biyombo
Cousins
Not a bad starting 5 to move forward with. Not enough shooting there but a much better team defensively and clear hierarchy in shot distribution.
Thornton and Pick 5 to Charlotte
Biyombo and Pick 2 to Sacramento
Why Charlotte do it?
At pick 2 they won't get a franchise changer so with this trade they still stay inside top 5 picks where they can get a player they would like. In Thornton they get one of the best young SGs in the league who gives them a very good player now. Charlotte would lose Biyombo but with the 5th pick they might be able to get Drummond as a replacement. Walking away with Thornton and Drummond would be a great result for them going forward. Charlotte also has a history of trading on draft day for scoring SG (they traded Brandan Wright for Jason Richardson a few years back and for Corey Maggate last year).
Why Sacramento do it?
We have cheap owners and many holes to fill. We desperately need a shotblocker and a SF. We need serious help defensively. It frees up money to re-sign JT and add more pieces to the puzzle. In Biyombo we get a young shotblocker to pair with Cousins for years to come and form a nice 3 big man rotation in Cousins - Biyombo and JT going forward. We address the SF need by adding the ultimate glue guy who will play with high energy and be a terrific defender in the NBA. We fill our holes on the cheap and remove the need for shots going forward. IT would like more shots, Jimmer would like more shots and Salmons would like more shots (we are stuck with him as no one will want to trade for him and we won't amnesty him as our owners can't afford it).
The downside is that we don't get better shooting the ball but we free up some cap space to re-sign JT and still have enough money to add more shooting by signing a role playing FA.
IT
Reke
MKG
Biyombo
Cousins
Not a bad starting 5 to move forward with. Not enough shooting there but a much better team defensively and clear hierarchy in shot distribution.
While great trade for us, do not see Charlotte biting to get MT for second pick (Byombo ~ Drummond).
Folks, in the ideal universe MT+5th for MKG is overpricing.
For Kings it is not!
It is all about fitting the needs, what Kings level you are looking for (good team or great team) and what is needed to make trade for 2nd pick even remotely possible.
Here are basic premises I have:
- Kings should aim for the elite level, and defense is what gets you there
- MKG is as good as advertised as being super glue starter level, defensive superb, roleplaying SF in NBA
- Team should be built around Reke and Cousins
- Team needs year or two at least to build its identity once major pieces are in place
- Team is running out of time to do the above after wasting 2 years for development and with Reke's future coming into play soon we cannot rely on long term projects (Drummond)
MT is good guy to have, he has alpha dog mentality on the court, which I really like to see... except he is not supposed to be OUR alpha dog at the guard position.
I always saw him as a 6th man with major minutes.
We got blessing in IT that happened to have lot of overlapping values as MT. Better 3pt shooter, ball handler, just shorter... as tenacious as MT. That is what reduces the value of MT on this team. IT also has 6th man role. I just cannot see any of MT or IT being the 3rd "big" on any of the champ teams (Harden, Manu, Pierce/KG/Rondo they are not).
Value of the 5th pick for us is tricky. Drummond might be NBA star, but I think that majority agrees that he is project and most probably will not be ready for NBA for couple of years. We do not have couple of years to wait to have our core implemented. Who else, unless we are giving up on defense winning the championship?
Trading is not easy to do. After results that Indiana and 76rs had this year, and role Andre and Granger played, I do not see them going anywhere. Beside their skills, both teams are young teams that need veteran leadership that those 2 guys have, and do not see them trying to get younger anyway.
Last year we had more money, more flexibility.... who is that player that we have better shot at this year than last?
Just having the assets, does not a better team make.
Now, if we can modify the trade to include getting rid of any of our SFs just to reduce payroll I am all for it, but even 5th + MT for MKG straight makes kings better.
Of course, after combines, things can change in a major way, this is all for fun anyway
Folks, in the ideal universe MT+5th for MKG is overpricing.
For Kings it is not!
It is all about fitting the needs, what Kings level you are looking for (good team or great team) and what is needed to make trade for 2nd pick even remotely possible.
Here are basic premises I have:
- Kings should aim for the elite level, and defense is what gets you there
- MKG is as good as advertised as being super glue starter level, defensive superb, roleplaying SF in NBA
- Team should be built around Reke and Cousins
- Team needs year or two at least to build its identity once major pieces are in place
- Team is running out of time to do the above after wasting 2 years for development and with Reke's future coming into play soon we cannot rely on long term projects (Drummond)
MT is good guy to have, he has alpha dog mentality on the court, which I really like to see... except he is not supposed to be OUR alpha dog at the guard position.
I always saw him as a 6th man with major minutes.
We got blessing in IT that happened to have lot of overlapping values as MT. Better 3pt shooter, ball handler, just shorter... as tenacious as MT. That is what reduces the value of MT on this team. IT also has 6th man role. I just cannot see any of MT or IT being the 3rd "big" on any of the champ teams (Harden, Manu, Pierce/KG/Rondo they are not).
Value of the 5th pick for us is tricky. Drummond might be NBA star, but I think that majority agrees that he is project and most probably will not be ready for NBA for couple of years. We do not have couple of years to wait to have our core implemented. Who else, unless we are giving up on defense winning the championship?
Trading is not easy to do. After results that Indiana and 76rs had this year, and role Andre and Granger played, I do not see them going anywhere. Beside their skills, both teams are young teams that need veteran leadership that those 2 guys have, and do not see them trying to get younger anyway.
Last year we had more money, more flexibility.... who is that player that we have better shot at this year than last?
Just having the assets, does not a better team make.
Now, if we can modify the trade to include getting rid of any of our SFs just to reduce payroll I am all for it, but even 5th + MT for MKG straight makes kings better.
Of course, after combines, things can change in a major way, this is all for fun anyway
gunks
Hall of Famer
Lolcats are high on Biyombo (another player we could have had that you could add to the "addresses a team need and is better than Jimmer list"). That trade would not happen.
Fun to dream though! It would be awesome for us if it did go down!
Siranthony
Starter
I don't know if I would trade MT because I like him. But Barnes doesn't thrill me so far from what I've seen. Looking at MKG the guy looks fast and has some Coby type moves. I think I would trade Tyreke before MT but not sure about that either. IF it looks like Barnes or Beal is what is left and we don't trade up... Maybe we should trade down.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Honestly, I still think there's a chance MKG falls to #5 anyway. He's a great team player who's talent shines in a 5-on-5 game but I don't know if he'll get the same workout hype as freak athletes like Drummond or Robinson. We'll know better in a couple weeks, but after Davis those two big guys will get a long look from everyone and Washington has been high on Bradley Beal for awhile. DeMarcus Cousins should have been 2nd and fell to 5th, Brandon Knight should have been 3rd and fell to 7th (cough, 8th). We could get lucky a third time in a row. I doubt Barnes is off the board at 5, but other than that I can't say right now how picks 2-6 are going to go.
Actually -- now that I think about it, Charlotte does have a history of drafting players from MJ's alma mater don't they? #2 is an obvious reach for Barnes, but they reached for Sean May and Raymond Felton so maybe there is a slight chance he's off the board at 5. Then again, those two guys won a national championship so they're "winners".
I've been thinking the same thing. I think these bottom dwellers might put a premium on a guy who can score (Beale/Barnes) or length (Drummond). I can see them valuing Robinson over MKG because he seems more definable as a player. MKG is more of the defensive glue guy who right now isn't an outside scorer and I can see them passing on him because of it
I don't think that's overly optimistic. If we consider the kind of consensus top-6 picks (Barnes, Beal, Davis, Drummond, MKG, Robinson), at least two of them have to fall to us. Davis isn't going to be it, but I can't right now say I'm certain any of the other five guys must go 2-3-or-4. Drummond has potential franchise guy written all over him but has motor issues. Beal is apparently getting serious interest in Washington but if his ceiling is Eric Gordon, he might not be top-4 material. Barnes looked like a franchise guy in high school, but not in college. Robinson is crazy athletic with a huge motor, but may be a bit undersized for the 4. MKG is an amazing glue guy, heady player, big motor, but is probably never going to be better than a #3 option on offense, and the teams drafting ahead of us are hurting for offense.
The 2-3-4 are just wide open right now. What we do know, is that we'll have a choice between at least two potential studs (more if somebody unexpected jumps up, or if you want to consider PJones/Sullinger/?? as potential studs as well).
Glenn
Hall of Famer
And what do we do if the two studs that drop to pick #5 are Drummond and Beale? Do you pick one of them or someone else?
Luckily, I'm not in charge!
I think both will be good players. The problem with Beal is that he slots right into the Marcus Thornton role, but we've already got Marcus Thornton. Beal's ceiling is higher, but he creates a must-trade-Thornton situation where I worry that we'd get lowballed because everybody would know we were shopping him hard. Drummond seems a bit out of the Kings' plans because they've talked recently about getting players in the draft that will help now, not later. Drummond is still a project, and I don't think we want that right now, even though he's likely BPA.
So both guys are tough for us to swallow. If that were to happen, I would hope that we had our ducks in a row and had lined up a trade down a few spots where we could not only pick up a guy we did want (Henson/Sullinger/PJones/??) but also some other goodies. Problem is, I don't really see a knock-out trade that does this for us and leaves us in that top-10 range or so to get one of those guys.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
The Wizards are loaded with big men, so they're either going to take a SF or a SG. Just my opinion, but I know from reading the local papers, they really like Beal, and want a good shooting guard on the floor next to Wall to take some of the perimeter shooting pressure off of him, and to help open up the lane for him. Its possible they could go for Barnes, but Beal is a better ballhandler. They're also paying Rashard Lewis 22 million next season, so I think they'll try and get their moneys worth out of him. If they don't trade or amnesty him.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Andre Drummond, as he was SUPPOSED to be, is the absolute perfect player for this franshise. Better than anyone in the draft than Davis. In fact as he was supposed to be maybe better than Davis too because he doesn't have a 12yr old's body -- he's got an absolute NBA stud body. A Dwight body. And so Beal doesn not matter. NOBODY matters in this draft until we bring in Drummond and we work him out, talk to him, maybe bring him a second time and see if he'll work out against somebody. Then you go from there. you like what you see/hear? Then you don't care who else is available. You take Drummond. If you don't...and the only way you can't is if you think he's immature, unmotivated, and a slug, then you take ANYBODY but Drummond. I see no scenario where Beal actually competes against Drummond for us drafting him. Drummond is either the guy who was the best prospect in the country 12 months ago and you toss Beal aside without a second thought. Or Drummond is a talented slug, in which case you toss him aside and go th other way (which at that point for means trading the pick). Either way, I have no dilemna if faced by a 6'11" perfect player for us or a 6'4" absolutely duplicative player for us.
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