Monte McNair’s Trade Deadline Strategy

[pdxKingsFan]

does it require coaching yes.... but just like any other intelligence you can’t work with what god failed to put in. People with Ausberger’s will have trouble reading people and picking up social clues. Some people can deal with math and others can’t. Sports intelligence is no different. Not everyone can see a court, process it in an instant and be able to predict with a fair degree of precision what will happen next.

it’s funny, people who would readily agree no matter how much teaching and training, some people just aren’t going to get a 1600 on an SAT (old scoring). Yet those same people seem to think with the right coaching anyone can be taught. Sports intelligence is no different than other types of intelligence.

It's interesting that you bring up SATs because a lot of basketball players don't do well on those tests. And not just the ones we typically accept to be morons. Jason Kidd was in the 700s if I recall correctly (he beat my J-high team for the NorCal state championship my senior year in 92, so yeah we had dirt on him).

 

[King-Da-Yah]

This thread is making my eyes bleed...I feel like the bad guys in Raiders of the Lost Ark

 

[pdxKingsFan]

This thread is making my eyes bleed...I feel like the bad guys in Raiders of the Lost Ark

Imagine your eyes if your solution to the Kings performance woes was to go back and watch the tape.

 

[mac]

I was around sports before the wheel was invented!

 

[Livinthedream]

It's interesting that you bring up SATs because a lot of basketball players don't do well on those tests. And not just the ones we typically accept to be morons. Jason Kidd was in the 700s if I recall correctly (he beat my J-high team for the NorCal state championship my senior year in 92, so yeah we had dirt on him).

Yeah, high intelligence in general makes playing sports more difficult, as it's a reaction activity. Thinking slows you down. Exposure, practice and experience increases sports ability. What a person practices and focuses on is key.

Catchers in baseball go on to make excellent baseball managers. Not because of their IQ, but because their position exposed them to a more complete set of circumstances than say a right fielder.

Basketball bigs who were guards the majority of their youth and then had a late growth spurt have a wider range of skillsets and game recognition than a player who has been bigger than everyone their whole life. Of course there are people who will have a higher aptitude than others, but every aspect of sports can be improved on.

 

[dude12]

I have been around sports possibly longer than you have been alive. Sports IQ is a given just like height or wingspan. You either have it or you don’t. A very wise coach I know said you will go as far as your IQ takes you. It’s a fallacy that good coaching can make a low IQ player a high IQ player.

Doesn’t mean that player is a bad athlete but certain sports put a higher priority on sports IQ. Swimming and track almost none. Basketball and Water Polo it’s a premium.

You have zero idea on how old I am. If you knew me and knew what I do, you would see how ridiculous this statement is. I’m not debating IQ. I’m stating that this coach in particular is not good. You are throwing a blanket statement on this team that it’s a low IQ team where as I asked you if you really thought some of these players were low IQ. In this particular case, this coach is bad. It is ok if you can’t recognize it though.

 

[chief bromden]

Exactly where did I prop up Luke. I have specifically said he is marginal at best.

The biggest problem with this team is they have low IQ players who will never get them in the play-offs regardless of the coach. It’s always the coach with you all and despite changing the coach every 2-3 years we are still the same. What a shock.

YoU CaN’T CoaCH Up LOw IQ PLAyeRS!

Looks like you propped him up on page 3 of this thread

[...] I think Luke hasn’t been fairly treated and has done a okay job with the hand he has been dealt [...]

I think the majority of us here recognize this isn't a super team that should be competing with the top dogs in the playoffs. The Kings just lost to the Tpups and Pistons back to back. ( !!!! ), two teams that the Kings have much much more talent on the floor against especially considering those two teams are tanking. (Although Minnesota's talent level is decent with all their guys back now)

Is your stance that the Kings lost those games because of low IQ?

 

[chief bromden]

Malone?
Karl?
Joeger

All of them have been in the playoffs with other teams.

"It's always the coach with you all"

Coming from the poster that spent multiple game threads blaming Joerger for not "letting" Harry shoot threes in games. Lol

 

[serbiangoat]

You all. Lol. I didn’t want Joerger fired. Nor Malone. Karl was past his expiration point. You are grasping at straws. This low IQ angle is also weird. I mean Hield may fall in this category but Barnes? Fox? Halliburton? Your guy Cojo? Possibly Bagley but he has hardly played the last 2 years. Is Holmes really a low IQ player? Your guy Bogi was supposed to be a high IQ player, right?

Lol

Majority of the team is low IQ in particular where they have to think through any difficult situation where they cannot simply make a instinctive play. Buddy/Bagley are bottom of the barrel in terms of IQ. Barnes/Fox at best iare average to slightly below even Holmes if you ask him to do anything where he has to create something or think its a disaster waiting to occur. Aside from Haliburton the team is dumb no question about it.

 

[dude12]

"It's always the coach with you all"

Coming from the poster that spent multiple game threads blaming Joerger for not "letting" Harry shoot threes in games. Lol

Haha......I guess this would be a good time to throw in a random some posters always think it’s the GM.

 

[dude12]

Majority of the team is low IQ in particular where they have to think through any difficult situation where they cannot simply make a instinctive play. Buddy/Bagley are bottom of the barrel in terms of IQ. Barnes/Fox at best iare average to slightly below even Holmes if you ask him to do anything where he has to create something or think its a disaster waiting to occur. Aside from Haliburton the team is dumb no question about it.

LOL

 

[sactowndog]

It's interesting that you bring up SATs because a lot of basketball players don't do well on those tests. And not just the ones we typically accept to be morons. Jason Kidd was in the 700s if I recall correctly (he beat my J-high team for the NorCal state championship my senior year in 92, so yeah we had dirt on him).

Yes they are two completely different types of intelligence and not related at all. The book “The Sports Gene” talks about it in depth.

 

[sactowndog]

You have zero idea on how old I am. If you knew me and knew what I do, you would see how ridiculous this statement is. I’m not debating IQ. I’m stating that this coach in particular is not good. You are throwing a blanket statement on this team that it’s a low IQ team where as I asked you if you really thought some of these players were low IQ. In this particular case, this coach is bad. It is ok if you can’t recognize it though.

Fine... again I am not saying Luke is a good coach.

Yes I think many of the Kings players are lower IQ players compared to their NBA peers. I just got done listening to Doug’s commentary on all the things they don’t do. He listed provided a long list such as: they go over the top of screens on players they should go under, their defensive rotations are poor, the angles they do or don’t force people to take.

Yes the coach is bad but so are the players. These aren’t 20 year olds who just need to learn. The starting line-up had two guys 28 and two guys 27.

 

[sactowndog]

Looks like you propped him up on page 3 of this thread



I think the majority of us here recognize this isn't a super team that should be competing with the top dogs in the playoffs. The Kings just lost to the Tpups and Pistons back to back. ( !!!! ), two teams that the Kings have much much more talent on the floor against especially considering those two teams are tanking. (Although Minnesota's talent level is decent with all their guys back now)

Is your stance that the Kings lost those games because of low IQ?

Well, since I doubt my opinion matters, feel free to listen to Doug’s critique of the game. His stance was exactly that the team lost the game because of low IQ.

Do I think coaching contributed to it? Yep. Do I think we are suddenly a play-off team with a new coach? Nope. It certainly didn’t make a difference the last set of coaches we have tried.

Btw with all their guys back I expect Minnesota to win a few more games.

 

[The_Jamal]

Fine... again I am not saying Luke is a good coach.

Yes I think many of the Kings players are lower IQ players compared to their NBA peers. I just got done listening to Doug’s commentary on all the things they don’t do. He listed provided a long list such as: they go over the top of screens on players they should go under, their defensive rotations are poor, the angles they do or don’t force people to take.

Yes the coach is bad but so are the players. These aren’t 20 year olds who just need to learn. The starting line-up had two guys 28 and two guys 27.

I don't think anyone really has delusions of this being a title contending core. What most people believe I think is we'd be around a 6-8 with a quality coach rather than one that is actively detrimental to getting wins.

 

[sactowndog]

"It's always the coach with you all"

Coming from the poster that spent multiple game threads blaming Joerger for not "letting" Harry shoot threes in games. Lol

I didn’t say it’s never the coach with me. .

 

[sactowndog]

I don't think anyone really has delusions of this being a title contending core. What most people believe I think is we'd be around a 6-8 with a quality coach rather than one that is actively detrimental to getting wins.

Yes I get that and I (and others) disagree.

This group of players in my opinion is pretty close to where they would be regardless of the coach. A different coach might get them to the 10 spot and get flushed in the play-in tournament. This team isn’t close to being better than Dallas at 7 or Portland at 6 regardless of who the coach is.

Harkless was getting no minutes in Miami and he is suddenly a rotation player for us. This board has always had a rainbow and sunshine crowd that leads them to say if we just got rid of X..... suddenly we will be playoff caliber. The X rotates between players ( Bogi, Bjelicia, CoJo) and coaches and yet the playoffs always seem out of reach.

The big problem is Vivek is of the same mind. The one time he agreed to a tear down and rebuild he had hired a GM who proceeded to create one of the worst draft records in NBA history.

 

[Woot!]

I don't think anyone really has delusions of this being a title contending core. What most people believe I think is we'd be around a 6-8 with a quality coach rather than one that is actively detrimental to getting wins.

Not sure what most people believe, but I believe this.

W/5 more wins the team would be in the #8 spot. If they were simply a slightly-below-average defensive team they'd have those five wins. Instead, they're awful defensively. There's zero reason for that. In fact, they've shown themselves to be capable of solid defensive play - and now that they have what should be a solid defensive bench, there's zero personnel-based reasons for them not to be better.

 

[Groovygreg]

Dude! McNair was hired as GM on September 17th, the draft was on November 20th, free agency started on November 20th and the 2020-2021 season started on December 22nd. Don't you think maybe he should get more than a 4 week off-season to turn the team around before you start judging him on his ability? I've been accused of being a Vlade "hater" but it was at least 2 years before I took stock of his performance and decided he was the wrong man for the job.

The two big decisions McNair has made regarding the roster which have multi-year implications are: (1) signing De'Aaron Fox to a max extension and (2) drafting Tyrese Haliburton with the 12th overall pick in the draft. Looking at how the season has played out so far, both of those decisions look pretty good. Losing second round picks? Meh. I doubt anyone could come up with even two players in Sacramento Kings history who were drafted in the second round and survived with the team past their rookie contracts. Maybe you can take issue that McNair didn't have a fire sale and join the race to the bottom with Detroit, OKC, Orlando, etc but the odds of that working out are pretty small I think. Maybe we get a 10% bump in our lottery odds but is that worth losing every good rotation player we have that isn't named Fox or Haliburton? Probably not. The deadline strategy was fine. The team just isn't good and until/unless we find a better coach, someone gifts us an All-Star, or we get lucky in the draft there isn't much any GM can do about that in 6 months.

Nailed it.

 

[macadocious]

Yes they are two completely different types of intelligence and not related at all. The book “The Sports Gene” talks about it in depth.

This book is fantastic, although can drag in spots. My son is a catcher, he definitely sees the game differently than most players on the field.

 

[Turgenev]

Fine... again I am not saying Luke is a good coach.

Yes I think many of the Kings players are lower IQ players compared to their NBA peers. I just got done listening to Doug’s commentary on all the things they don’t do. He listed provided a long list such as: they go over the top of screens on players they should go under, their defensive rotations are poor, the angles they do or don’t force people to take.

Yes the coach is bad but so are the players. These aren’t 20 year olds who just need to learn. The starting line-up had two guys 28 and two guys 27.

Where is Doug's commentary?

 

[dude12]

Fine... again I am not saying Luke is a good coach.

Yes I think many of the Kings players are lower IQ players compared to their NBA peers. I just got done listening to Doug’s commentary on all the things they don’t do. He listed provided a long list such as: they go over the top of screens on players they should go under, their defensive rotations are poor, the angles they do or don’t force people to take.

Yes the coach is bad but so are the players. These aren’t 20 year olds who just need to learn. The starting line-up had two guys 28 and two guys 27.

To me, you are describing a scheme. I mean, doesn’t Walton control this or not?

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Yes they are two completely different types of intelligence and not related at all. The book “The Sports Gene” talks about it in depth.

Yes but the question is whether or not it can be taught and when the cutoff is for being able to improve/boost it. Can a player have a lightbulb a-ha moment or are they forever X IQ. I'd argue the former. But I don't know at what age/level of coaching the window for those moments dramatically close.

 

[SacTownKid]

To be fair, how do we know nobody else was beating down Luke's door? Nobody else even had a chance to ask!

"Parting ways with Lakers" on April 12th, 1:01 PM:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1116793500001980417

"Kings after Walton" April 12th, 1:11 PM (that's TEN MINUTES):

https://twitter.com/x/status/1116796074243452928

"Kings will hire Walton" April 13th, 11:51 AM:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1117138141960257536

Less than 23 hours after it was publicly announced Walton would leave the Lakers, the agreement to bring him on as coach of the Kings was already in place.

It was pretty well rumored and known what was going on with Luke in his last days in LA wasn't it? Somebody if they really wanted him could have been primed and waiting for him to hit the market and make a play for him.

 

[sactowndog]

To me, you are describing a scheme. I mean, doesn’t Walton control this or not?

no because IQ isn’t about scheme.

You can teach rote rules but understanding when to apply those rules or break those rules requires instantaneous decision making based on seeing the position of all the players on the court and processing visual clues.

you can go over the rules time and again (not to pick on Buddy) but Buddy is going to miss a clue and do the wrong thing. And at the NBA level it’s harder because guys will do things to disguise their intentions.

for people that have high IQs it seems obvious that everyone should see it. But it’s just not. Not everyone can process those visual queues at the speed required. The higher you go in that type of sport the faster and more discerning your processing needs to be.

I think it was one of Vlade’s biggest weaknesses as a GM. He was an extremely high IQ player who thought “it’s so simple anyone can see it”. But players can’t and it capped the ceiling for some of his players at a lower level than he thought.

 

[sactowndog]

Yes but the question is whether or not it can be taught and when the cutoff is for being able to improve/boost it. Can a player have a lightbulb a-ha moment or are they forever X IQ. I'd argue the former. But I don't know at what age/level of coaching the window for those moments dramatically close.

if you are interested in the topic read “The Sports Gene”. Yes, everyone can be taught but everyone has ceilings and when you are talking about the NBA level the game is played above the ceilings for many players.

 

[sactowndog]

Where is Doug's commentary?

Friday the 9th hour 1 and 2. On demand replay on KHTK app.

 

[sactowndog]

To me, you are describing a scheme. I mean, doesn’t Walton control this or not?

Maybe an analogy is a scheme is like Algebra.

But just because you have memorized the rules doesn’t mean you can apply them to a physics proof in a timed test.

It’s not a great analogy because Sports IQ is instantaneous recognition and movement as a team. But it sort of applies.

 

[dude12]

no because IQ isn’t about scheme.

You can teach rote rules but understanding when to apply those rules or break those rules requires instantaneous decision making based on seeing the position of all the players on the court and processing visual clues.

you can go over the rules time and again (not to pick on Buddy) but Buddy is going to miss a clue and do the wrong thing. And at the NBA level it’s harder because guys will do things to disguise their intentions.

for people that have high IQs it seems obvious that everyone should see it. But it’s just not. Not everyone can process those visual queues at the speed required. The higher you go in that type of sport the faster and more discerning your processing needs to be.

I think it was one of Vlade’s biggest weaknesses as a GM. He was an extremely high IQ player who thought “it’s so simple anyone can see it”. But players can’t and it capped the ceiling for some of his players at a lower level than he thought.

In my opinion, some of the stuff being discussed just isn’t IQ, but schemes. If you are talking the multiple reads a player has to make in certain situations, Hield and Bagley do come to mind as those who have trouble. But I don’t believe every one on this team has low IQ....not counting Hali.

There is an inability by Walton to get this team to play at a consistently higher level.

My opinion is that Walton is failing and the other more pressing concern is for a lack of better term, the team overall is soft.

 

[sactowndog]

In my opinion, some of the stuff being discussed just isn’t IQ, but schemes. If you are talking the multiple reads a player has to make in certain situations, Hield and Bagley do come to mind as those who have trouble. But I don’t believe every one on this team has low IQ....not counting Hali.

There is an inability by Walton to get this team to play at a consistently higher level.

My opinion is that Walton is failing and the other more pressing concern is for a lack of better term, the team overall is soft.

I don’t think I said everyone on the team has a low IQ. But at high level team sports just one player making the wrong decision can break down a team defense. If you have two you have a real problem.

Again I never said Walton wasn’t an issue just that he isn’t the only issue and changing the coach won’t fix the IQ problem. That would take hitting reset again which is what you said you would do in the other thread. Are our positions really that different?