Monte McNair’s Trade Deadline Strategy

[pdxKingsFan]

If Walton weren't consistently floundering with his stylistic approach and openly making critical coaching mistakes game to game in a variety of ways it wouldn't be on him, but it is. The dude isn't terrible but he is his own worst enemy and the definition of mediocre. And allowing a holdover coach regardless of the real reason why to remain on board is also on the front office for ignoring history in the first place. De'Aaron Fox can only do so much.

He still makes rookie coaching mistakes and seems to have no clue what he is doing beyond "it worked 5 minutes ago".

For me, almost everything I will feel about Monte hinges on this offseason - what to do with Buddy and Bags + replacing Walton and obviously identifying quality talent in the draft.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

In my opinion it’s never legit to ask a person to provide their sources. In my case, it isn’t really going to matter because as is probably painfully obvious I’m not easily bullied. But we never know who is posting here and it could easily be a younger person who perhaps heard a conversation while dad worked from home.

IMHO there's a huge difference between naming or burning a source and being able to backup that your source is good without doing the former.

 

[sactowndog]

IMHO there's a huge difference between naming or burning a source and being able to backup that your source is good without doing the former.

How exactly would you propose one do that without giving huge clues as to who that person is? As you know someone already posted they had a friend in the Kings front office. That narrows the scope significantly.

 

[macadocious]

How exactly would you propose one do that without giving huge clues as to who that person is? As you know someone already posted they had a friend in the Kings front office. That narrows the scope significantly.

FWIW I’ve always believed you, I just disagree with your assessment on if they should have taken the alluded to offer. If that was the exact offer, I’m super glad he passed. If it was better than that, then he should’ve moved him

 

[whozit]

Correct me if I'm wrong but they offered a) that this was definitively the offer on the table and that b) Monte was stupid not to take it.

a) is pretty big info, if that were true - and it's definitely on the low end of what the Kings or any fan base would have considered

to which I think b) is a collective hell no from almost everyone who understands this team isn't possibly going to finish bottom 4 without shipping Fox.

The poster has a habit of using bottom of the article speculation from blogs and sites like draft express level sources to consistently bash Monte for the entire season and its gotten tiring.

Don't have a bit of disagreement with any of that.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

How exactly would you propose one do that without giving huge clues as to who that person is? As you know someone already posted they had a friend in the Kings front office. That narrows the scope significantly.

I say this with all due respect because I think you are a good person who is rightfully frustrated by this franchise even though I disagree with your recent analysis since Monte has become GM - it's not really my job to help you convince others your source is valid, I am simply pointing out right now I don't feel "trust me" is good enough. Usually the way people validate unknown sources is by being consistently correct and earning a rep.

 

[whozit]

If Walton weren't consistently floundering with his stylistic approach and openly making critical coaching mistakes game to game in a variety of ways it wouldn't be on him, but it is. The dude isn't terrible but he is his own worst enemy and the definition of mediocre. And allowing a holdover coach regardless of the real reason why to remain on board is also on the front office for ignoring history in the first place. De'Aaron Fox can only do so much.

That would depend if he had the option to remove the coach. It is quite possible that was non-negotiable and possibly why some (I think at least one removed themselves) backed away. Walton is a smooth talker but his actions don't follow his talk. I could see him easily saying the correct thing to appease the potential new GM but not meaning a word of it.

 

[burekijogurt]

IMHO there's a huge difference between naming or burning a source and being able to backup that your source is good without doing the former.

from what was written on this board before and given the team involved, I have to believe the source is good.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

That would depend if he had the option to remove the coach. It is quite possible that was non-negotiable and possibly why some (I think at least one removed themselves) backed away. Walton is a smooth talker but his actions don't follow his talk. I could see him easily saying the correct thing to appease the potential new GM but not meaning a word of it.

My guess is it's more a function of wanting to set the next coach up for success and figuring they could get by with another year of Walton rather than a strict yes/no on to keep him. I'm sure Monte came in with a short list of coaching candidates and after reviewing them made the call there was no urgency to pull the trigger this year. I am expecting the new coach to possibly be a high level assistant who is not a household name.

 

[whozit]

My guess is it's more a function of wanting to set the next coach up for success and figuring they could get by with another year of Walton rather than a strict yes/no on to keep him. I'm sure Monte came in with a short list of coaching candidates and after reviewing them made the call there was no urgency to pull the trigger this year. I am expecting the new coach to possibly be a high level assistant who is not a household name.

Your guess is as good as mine and that is all mine was, a guess originated by reading tea leaves with a hint of bias to top it off. Just a hint mind you.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Your guess is as good as mine and that is all mine was, a guess originated by reading tea leaves with a hint of bias to top it off. Just a hint mind you.

A lot of people were all in on certain GM candidates that I was not high on, I am not convinced that the Kings wound up with their 5th choice because the good candidates pulled out, but I know that is the perception of many around here. I will say that I am moderately impressed by the work that Monte has done so far and do feel like for the first time since the Maloofs went Major League on this franchise that we have adults making decisions.

But again, that impression could be easily wiped out this offseason if its back to the same old tricks.

 

[whozit]

A lot of people were all in on certain GM candidates that I was not high on, I am not convinced that the Kings wound up with their 5th choice because the good candidates pulled out, but I know that is the perception of many around here. I will say that I am moderately impressed by the work that Monte has done so far and do feel like for the first time since the Maloofs went Major League on this franchise that we have adults making decisions.

But again, that impression could be easily wiped out this offseason if its back to the same old tricks.

The one I seem to recall pulling out was also an assistant GM. On one hand I liked that they went out of house in their candidate search but even the hint of Vivek's influence makes me a little paranoid. Influence to me is different than approving or rejecting what is put before the owner to sign off on.

I also am pleased with the job that McNair has done so far but very little sample size and it was a very compressed time frame between his hiring and the start of the season. End of the season, honeymoon period is over and by then he should know what needs to be done. He will own everything going forward.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

At the time that Vlade left, with just a few weeks to go until the draft and FA start in an already shortened offseason, I really had diminished expectations of any sort of competent navigation of the offseason. So maybe Monte gets the benefit of absolute bottom of the barrel expectations from me, but I really do think he has shown that he is at least operating with a cohesive vision compared to Vlade who seemed to approach that culture alone could translate into results and severely lacked talent evaluation and I don't even want to mention the two morons before him that made Vlade's approach at least appear sensible for a hot minute.

Again it's a pretty low bar to clear. But he's managing it so far.

 

[sactowndog]

FWIW I’ve always believed you, I just disagree with your assessment on if they should have taken the alluded to offer. If that was the exact offer, I’m super glad he passed. If it was better than that, then he should’ve moved him

Yeah that’s fair. If we all agreed it would be a pretty boring board.

 

[sactowndog]

At the time that Vlade left, with just a few weeks to go until the draft and FA start in an already shortened offseason, I really had diminished expectations of any sort of competent navigation of the offseason. So maybe Monte gets the benefit of absolute bottom of the barrel expectations from me, but I really do think he has shown that he is at least operating with a cohesive vision compared to Vlade who seemed to approach that culture alone could translate into results and severely lacked talent evaluation and I don't even want to mention the two morons before him that made Vlade's approach at least appear sensible for a hot minute.

Again it's a pretty low bar to clear. But he's managing it so far.

Just to be clear.... while I am not a fan of Monte’s moves he is clearly better than Vlade. Though I remember criticizing Vlade after a couple years in and getting similar pushback. This board has a strong rainbows crowd.

 

[sactowndog]

I say this with all due respect because I think you are a good person who is rightfully frustrated by this franchise even though I disagree with your recent analysis since Monte has become GM - it's not really my job to help you convince others your source is valid, I am simply pointing out right now I don't feel "trust me" is good enough. Usually the way people validate unknown sources is by being consistently correct and earning a rep.

I guess you missed I’m not trying to convince anyone that what I post is valid. People can take it as they want. The point of my posts were completely different.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Just to be clear.... while I am not a fan of Monte’s moves he is clearly better than Vlade. Though I remember criticizing Vlade after a couple years in and getting similar pushback. This board has a strong rainbows crowd.

I don't think Vlade was a good GM but I got tired of hearing complaints for everything he did. He inherited a team that was capped out and didn't control its picks due to a trade in 7 year limbo and he almost created a winner. He deserved 90% of the shade thrown his way but the final 10% was a bit over the top imho.

 

[sactowndog]

I don't think Vlade was a good GM but I got tired of hearing complaints for everything he did. He inherited a team that was capped out and didn't control its picks due to a trade in 7 year limbo and he almost created a winner. He deserved 90% of the shade thrown his way but the final 10% was a bit over the top imho.

I also think you are also a good person and try to see the best in people which is a great thing. But the bolded part is really a stretch.

I’m not sure any GM in history has a worst draft record then Vlade. He has a string of first round picks from that are out of the league already. I can’t think of any GM that has blown as many picks.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I also think you are also a good person and try to see the best in people which is a great thing. But the bolded part is really a stretch.

I’m not sure any GM in history has a worst draft record then Vlade. He has a string of first round picks from that are out of the league already. I can’t think of any GM that has blown as many picks.

We were on the brink of a playoff spot 2/3rds of the way into Joerger's last year. I don't know where it all fell to pieces, but it seems like it was behind the scenes BS that sunk that team.

That doesn't absolve blowing draft picks, his talent evaluation was terrible. He swung for the fences almost every time and burned a lot of good assets in the process. And he got too clever with the biggest layup of his career. All he had to do was either get Williams and Joerger under control and take their bickering out of the media and seal the deal with that push OR make the right pick at #2 and they'd all be smoking cigars and Sacramento would probably be a 4 seed comfortably for the next 12 years.

 

[sactowndog]

We were on the brink of a playoff spot 2/3rds of the way into Joerger's last year. I don't know where it all fell to pieces, but it seems like it was behind the scenes BS that sunk that team.

That doesn't absolve blowing draft picks, his talent evaluation was terrible. He swung for the fences almost every time and burned a lot of good assets in the process. And he got too clever with the biggest layup of his career. All he had to do was either get Williams and Joerger under control and take their bickering out of the media and seal the deal with that push OR make the right pick at #2 and they'd all be smoking cigars and Sacramento would probably be a 4 seed comfortably for the next 12 years.

I hate to tell you everyone hated Joeger and Vlade wanted to dump him before the season even started.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I hate to tell you everyone hated Joeger and Vlade wanted to dump him before the season even started.

I didn't think he wore out his welcome until the nonsense with Williams started.
And Joerger was right on that one issue. Still a bit of an unprofessional jerk.

 

[sactowndog]

I didn't think he wore out his welcome until the nonsense with Williams started.
And Joerger was right on that one issue. Still a bit of an unprofessional jerk.

again you can believe me or not but Vlade wanted to dump Dave early on. The Williams stuff just exacerbated it.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

again you can believe me or not but Vlade wanted to dump Dave early on. The Williams stuff just exacerbated it.

If he had gotten us into the playoffs I believe he'd have kept his job. I'm sure that the personality issues were apparent before they became public.

 

[sactowndog]

Terence Davis 14/3/2/2
Moe Harkless 13/1
Delon Wright 2/4/5/1
Harrison Barnes 14/2/2



Any questions?

Yeah I think quite a few....

Terrance Davis. 0-3. 1/1/2
Moe Harkless. 2-5. 4/1/0
Delon Wright. 2-7. 5/4/1
H Barnes. 5-12. 13/4/2

Not ragging on HB as he is what he is. A consistent 4-5 starter on a playoff team. Actually not ragging on any of the players. They are what they are.

 

[serbiangoat]

Sactowndog stated that the front office has been unfair to Walton. The only thing you listed that was not prior to McNair's hiring is the team not matching on Bogi's contract and Bjelica being traded. Walton wasn't using Bjelica so that is moot. Everything else was during Vlade's time, the man who hired him.

My post was simply asking how Walton has been treated unfairly AND how can he be considered doing okay.

Because Joerger after the trade could not do any better and is a far better coach than Luke. Luke is trash but the team sucks and the Kings have no All-Stars or anyone who makes others better.

 

[fansinceday1]

Listening to CD this morning....... this is why i quit the kings 2 seasons ago. "basketball wise, this franchise is a colossal failure." When asked about tanking, he said its too late. They won't make the playoffs and they are on their way to getting a middle of the first round draft pick. This kings franchise fails at everything. They are working on 15 years of no playoffs. After this season, who's second? The timberwolves at 5?
As someone who is not emotionally invested anymore, as a huge sports fan, I just have to say wow as to how hapless this franchise is. I only care because of what it is doing to my mom who LOVES this team. She is now a bitter bitter 72 year old woman who has stopped watching the team because they make her so angry. I really never thought this team would break my mom, but they did.

Carmichael Dave, bravo to the rant you just went on. I can't wait to hear you go after the ownership.

 

[whozit]

Listening to CD this morning....... this is why i quit the kings 2 seasons ago. "basketball wise, this franchise is a colossal failure." When asked about tanking, he said its too late. They won't make the playoffs and they are on their way to getting a middle of the first round draft pick. This kings franchise fails at everything. They are working on 15 years of no playoffs. After this season, who's second? The timberwolves at 5?
As someone who is not emotionally invested anymore, as a huge sports fan, I just have to say wow as to how hapless this franchise is. I only care because of what it is doing to my mom who LOVES this team. She is now a bitter bitter 72 year old woman who has stopped watching the team because they make her so angry. I really never thought this team would break my mom, but they did.

Carmichael Dave, bravo to the rant you just went on. I can't wait to hear you go after the ownership.

He didn't go after ownership? It starts and ends there. Maloofs destroyed the team to move the team. Vivek bought the team to save the team. Who did better? The Maloofs whose intent was to move the team from the get go and messed up by letting the pros make the team good or Vivek just the opposite and wouldn't get out of his own way making the team and it’s organization the cesspool of the league?

 

[fansinceday1]

Dave said his final straw would be McNair getting fired and they still haven't made the playoffs. He swore the gloves would come off and he would go after ownership. He would start demanding publicly that vivek be removed from basketball operations.

 

[whozit]

Dave said his final straw would be McNair getting fired and they still haven't made the playoffs. He swore the gloves would come off and he would go after ownership. He would start demanding publicly that vivek be removed from basketball operations.

Unfortunately, Vivek would have to remove himself. And I don't see him doing that. Until fans don't come back, I suspect he will see himself part of the solution, one of the enlightened ones and facts be damned.

And who knows what the reception will be when they do allow fans back in. People have had to deal with a lot of bullcrap over the last year. May not see seeing it on display healthy or helpful but I have no real clue on that.

 

[sactowndog]

Because Joerger after the trade could not do any better and is a far better coach than Luke. Luke is trash but the team sucks and the Kings have no All-Stars or anyone who makes others better.

Tactically for sure Dave is better. I’m not sure he is better in the player relationship side.