Monk is back!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter iowamcnabb
- Start date
Must resist urge for snark....
A lot of people seem to believe that trading Davion Mitchell would be addition by subtraction to the point where every time he has a good game their reaction is "good, now he has more trade value". It seems to simplify down to two main points of contention, neither of which are his fault: -- (1) He's short! (2) I wanted us to draft a wing instead and I'm still mad about it. [to be clear, I don't agree with either point but these are the two I reasons for disliking Davion that I see coming up most often]
He's not any shorter than Bobby Jackson or Mike Bibby were but defensive switching wasn't the norm in that era so they weren't singled out and targeted as often for being the shortest defenders on the court. And also our general lack of depth at the wing and center positions (particularly quality defenders with size) means his defensive talents are not really translating fully. Forcing the ballhandler into the help defense is great in theory but it only works if the help defender does their job when they get there.
Keeping Monk -- who is a fantastic scorer and shot creator but a weak link on defense -- probably means we have even more need to keep Davion long-term now to maintain our defensive edge with the guard rotation, but let's see what happens in the draft first before we start predicting the 2024-2025 roster.
A lot of people seem to believe that trading Davion Mitchell would be addition by subtraction to the point where every time he has a good game their reaction is "good, now he has more trade value". It seems to simplify down to two main points of contention, neither of which are his fault: -- (1) He's short! (2) I wanted us to draft a wing instead and I'm still mad about it. [to be clear, I don't agree with either point but these are the two I reasons for disliking Davion that I see coming up most often]
He's not any shorter than Bobby Jackson or Mike Bibby were but defensive switching wasn't the norm in that era so they weren't singled out and targeted as often for being the shortest defenders on the court. And also our general lack of depth at the wing and center positions (particularly quality defenders with size) means his defensive talents are not really translating fully. Forcing the ballhandler into the help defense is great in theory but it only works if the help defender does their job when they get there.
Keeping Monk -- who is a fantastic scorer and shot creator but a weak link on defense -- probably means we have even more need to keep Davion long-term now to maintain our defensive edge with the guard rotation, but let's see what happens in the draft first before we start predicting the 2024-2025 roster.
I think you are manufacturing the hate in your mind. He is a great on ball defender and now has a decent 3pt shot. His length makes it difficult for him to play passing lanes. See Keon for how length helps there. He can handle the ball and pass but he isn’t the best at cutting to the basket or playing the pick and roll because he has a hard time seeing over most defenders. I don’t think pointing out limitations is hating, but maybe that’s just me.
If we draft another defensive role player it might be worthwhile just from the standpoint someone will probably offer him $12m or something vs. the 6.5 he is slated to make this year. It also might be required to sweeten a Barnes deal.
As a standalone trade its pointless as his 6.5m won't bring a player who moves the needle.
As a standalone trade its pointless as his 6.5m won't bring a player who moves the needle.
I think Monte effed up tbh and desperately needed to draft a tough 3/4 wing with an edge and maybe a passable shot and that it's still a glaring hole that needs to be filled that would move the team over the hump.
I think the rest of the roster can stay tbh but we really really need that 3/4 guy and tbh I bet you can find this guy in China I don't see why its that hard to find this Bobby Portis Torrey Craig *Olivier Maxence Prosper** type tbh.
Don't think it's that hard and I hope Monte sees it I think it's pretty obvious tbh.
I think until then the Kings just won't be good enough and I think Monte just needs to get this guy
I think the rest of the roster can stay tbh but we really really need that 3/4 guy and tbh I bet you can find this guy in China I don't see why its that hard to find this Bobby Portis Torrey Craig *Olivier Maxence Prosper** type tbh.
Don't think it's that hard and I hope Monte sees it I think it's pretty obvious tbh.
I think until then the Kings just won't be good enough and I think Monte just needs to get this guy
I do think I read more about what Mitchell is not than what he is. E.g., he's not Wagner or Sengun or Moody, he doesn't have long arms, he's not a wing. I think the same happens with Sabonis. He isn't a three point shooting shot blocker and he's not quite Jokic.
But ... Keeping Monk, for me, does mean that there should be some guard rotation movement. We have Fox, Monk, Ellis, Mitchell, Huerter as five relatively good, young, and seemingly happy rotation guys plus Colby and Duarte (meh) on the fringes. Depth is nice but waste less so.
But ... Keeping Monk, for me, does mean that there should be some guard rotation movement. We have Fox, Monk, Ellis, Mitchell, Huerter as five relatively good, young, and seemingly happy rotation guys plus Colby and Duarte (meh) on the fringes. Depth is nice but waste less so.
There's also another scenario that was risky to not take the Kings deal. Monks floor was the Kings deal of $78/4 years. If he went into free agency after declining the deal, the Kings could have found someone with the non tax MLE. They would have to renounce Monks rights. Now his floor is the non Tax MLE or lower as the Kings would be out of the bidding.
Nah, you can't look at Mitchell in the sense of Sabonis to Jokic. Sabonis does a lot on the court to help win games even with some of his limitations (such as inability to block shots). For example, his tenacity, his will and determination...his IQ, awareness. Those are something you WISH Mitchell possessed EVEN with limitations. Mitchell is not really a true PG, he hesitate too much and is not really a threat at attacking the basket. His vision and ability to see the floor isn't great. His shooting accuracy is meh. His strength has always been his defense but last year, I think he has the worst year in term of defending...it's almost like he forgot how to defend and constantly seem to get called for fouls a lot. Players grow from year to year...but Mitchell isn't growing as I expected. If you compare Keegan's growth from his first year to second? It's night and day.
If the Kings can get someone like Tyus Jones from Wizards as a backup PG, they'll be much better off next year.
If the Kings can get someone like Tyus Jones from Wizards as a backup PG, they'll be much better off next year.
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I'm not saying the two players are the same. Or should be considered the same. I'm saying some people - and I mean in general rather than a specific group of people - focus more on what players don't have. We get Tyus Jones and we gonna have a bunch of people saying 'he doesn't do this'
Edit. And people do that with Sabonis. He's an all NBA guy who led the league in triple doubles. People are still like 'your center should be your defensive anchor. And he should shoot'.
With Fox. He should shoot better from three. He starts doing that. Whoa hold on Fox. Less threes!
Edit. And people do that with Sabonis. He's an all NBA guy who led the league in triple doubles. People are still like 'your center should be your defensive anchor. And he should shoot'.
With Fox. He should shoot better from three. He starts doing that. Whoa hold on Fox. Less threes!
As you allude - "Starting" is besides the 'points'......its minutes distrubtion and effciency given those minutes. Keon Ellis's last month or so and games has me wanting him getting more minutes to see if and how his offense develops. A couple of Ellis's best defensive games are better than I've ever seen ANY of the current Kings players single game play save maybe Fox defensively. That's worth the experiment...... Start Ellis and run him through the paces, bring off Monk, Lyles, Huerter, the 13th draft pick, possible Free Agent, and if lucky 2nd rounders.
I think it’s fair to point out player strengths and weaknesses. It’s actually smart because basketball is a team game and you have to balance the team in the vision you want. That being said you have to admit Mitchell has a specific role that he does well, but if the team needs other elements and he can’t fulfill then you have to find someone who does.
I'm on board with trading Davion to pick up another first round pick -- especially if we can use that pick to take a defensive role-player to take his place. My main concern with moving off Davion as part of our rotation is that we need to be improving on defense and trading one of our best defenders obviously doesn't help get us there next season. Monk and Huerter could be a powerful 1-2 scoring punch off the bench but then we need plus defenders at the forward and center positions throughout the rotation to pick up some of the slack on defense.
If we do end up keeping Kevin Huerter, I think he can be a 2/3 swing guy off the bench so we still have room to add a guard in the lottery. It's tough to see how we get a plus defender at 13 who slots in at SF, PF, or C based on current draft projections. Ron Holland seems to be slipping but he likely gets picked by one of the 3 teams just in front of us (Utah, Chicago, OKC) if he's still on the board in that range. So either we reach for a defender at 13 and pass on all the high-upside guards or we find a way to get a second pick in the first round and go BPA at #13 regardless of position. Rob Dillingham, Devin Carter, Bub Carrington, Isaiah Collier, Ja'Kobe Walter and KyShawn George are all high-upside swings worth taking at #13.
If we do end up keeping Kevin Huerter, I think he can be a 2/3 swing guy off the bench so we still have room to add a guard in the lottery. It's tough to see how we get a plus defender at 13 who slots in at SF, PF, or C based on current draft projections. Ron Holland seems to be slipping but he likely gets picked by one of the 3 teams just in front of us (Utah, Chicago, OKC) if he's still on the board in that range. So either we reach for a defender at 13 and pass on all the high-upside guards or we find a way to get a second pick in the first round and go BPA at #13 regardless of position. Rob Dillingham, Devin Carter, Bub Carrington, Isaiah Collier, Ja'Kobe Walter and KyShawn George are all high-upside swings worth taking at #13.
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I like Keon, but he's not a proven starter, imo. He's more of a player you "hope" could be a starter. He got a lot of attention, rightly so, for his defense on Curry, but there were other games where he wasn't up to par. If the Kings can get that lengthy athletic 4 to replace Barnes and Keon remains the starter they will be better, but to get an abundance of confidence I need to see a legit 2-way player at the SG.
I don’t get the Keon doubters. Sure, a larger sample size would be nice. But if he were on another team, Kings fan’s would be screaming to get him.
He doesn’t have to do anything different from the end of last season to be the exact guy the Kings need in the starting lineup. There is a reason KCP and Danny Green won championships starting for multiple different teams.
Keon is a tone setter, our defensive general and can hit 3’s at a high clip. And he is a screaming deal from a salary cap perspective. The Kings should be doing everything they can to make sure he succeeds as a starter.
He doesn’t have to do anything different from the end of last season to be the exact guy the Kings need in the starting lineup. There is a reason KCP and Danny Green won championships starting for multiple different teams.
Keon is a tone setter, our defensive general and can hit 3’s at a high clip. And he is a screaming deal from a salary cap perspective. The Kings should be doing everything they can to make sure he succeeds as a starter.