sactowndog
Hall of Famer
Interesting. In most NBA vernacular Bigs are the 5 and 4’s like Cam, who stretch the floor, are called Wings. I only know that because I got repeatedly corrected.
Mock draft 2026
- Thread starter iowamcnabb
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Interesting. In most NBA vernacular Bigs are the 5 and 4’s like Cam, who stretch the floor, are called Wings. I only know that because I got repeatedly corrected.
Cam is clearly a big Wing. NBA vernacular; it’s fantastic.
Interesting. In most NBA vernacular Bigs are the 5 and 4’s like Cam, who stretch the floor, are called Wings. I only know that because I got repeatedly corrected.
Well... calling Cam a bigger wing is one way to get around the "undersized" stigma. We may have blown past the point where the term "wing" has any relevant meaning in basketball though. At this point a "wing" is seemingly anybody who doesn't play PG or C. Now combine that with the growing belief that modern PGs need to be 6'4" or taller and we have entered a world of vernacular where nearly everybody is a wing. Except maybe Wemby. He's a unicorn. Which is a center who plays like a wing.
sactowndog
Hall of Famer
I think a wing is expected to shoot the 3 and play some perimeter defense. A Big is expected to be a rim protector and defensive anchor.Well... calling Cam a bigger wing is one way to get around the "undersized" stigma. We may have blown past the point where the term "wing" has any relevant meaning in basketball though. At this point a "wing" is seemingly anybody who doesn't play PG or C. Now combine that with the growing belief that modern PGs need to be 6'4" or taller and we have entered a world of vernacular where nearly everybody is a wing. Except maybe Wemby. He's a unicorn. Which is a center who plays like a wing.
Does that mean Sabonis is also a wing?
sactowndog
Hall of Famer
Doesn’t shoot the three at an above average rate for significant attempts.
He was at or above 37 % in each of the last three years before the injury bug knocked him out this year. I don't know what counts as significant attempts to you, but last season he took 156 of them is which more than 2 per game. In any other era that would have made him a marksman.
And it does beg the question... if a player does not shoot enough 3's to count as a wing under your criteria nor are they enough of a defensive anchor to be called a big, what are they? In Sabonis' case he is a 3 x All-Star and 2 x All-NBA so clearly he is something.
He's a Whig.
sactowndog
Hall of Famer
Well you just put your finger on why the Kings had trouble trading Sabonis for value. NBA teams had the same question.
As was our greatest president.... so not a bad thing to be really.
Since @sactowndog side-stepped the question, I'll accept this as the correct answer.
sactowndog
Hall of Famer
I didn’t side step it at all. A large number of NBA people don’t consider him either which is why trading him is so hard. If and when Sabonis gets traded for a couple firsts you can come back at me.
I didn't disagree with your point about Sabonis' trade value being complicated because he doesn't easily slot into a role that analytics oriented front offices (which is essentially all of them at this point) are looking to fill. My question was more along the lines of what would you call somebody who doesn't easily fit into the "wing" or "big" categories as you've defined them?
Which is relevant in this case because I think most see Cam Boozer as slotting into a similar gray area. He may have the 3pt shooting to be called a wing but is he going to be an effective perimeter defender who can step out on three point shooters two dozen times a game without giving up a high quantity of blow by's? If not, can we really call him a wing?
He's squarely in the PF camp to me... a distinction that many (yourself included?) now dismiss as an antiquated and irrelevant position but seems to account for exactly this gray area that Sabonis also fits into.
sactowndog
Hall of Famer
Boozer may but he is shooting .404 on 4 attempts a game and a .784 FT% which projects pretty well. His defense is problematic but if he rebounds you can hide him a bit. That said I take AJ over him every time.
Meanwhile Domas this year is shooting 18.5 on 1.4 attempts and .727 FT%.
I think if Sabonis could hit 36% or better on 4 or more attempts consistently his value would be very different as a player.
Joshyjosh31
Starter
We serious here
I don't care to speculate how old you might be, but players who are 6'9" or taller shooting substantially more than that is a relatively recent phenomenon.
You're missing the big picture. Over the previous 3 seasons Sabonis took 326 three point jumpers and made 39.5% of them. This season in the 19 games Sabonis played in, he took 27 three point jumpers. His attempts were also trending up prior to this year -- he doubled them from 1.1 per game in the 03-04 season to 2.2 per game in the 04-05 season. I'm sure he had every intention of taking more of them this season and with only 27 attempts I'm not going to dwell too much on the percentage. That's still in flukey randomness territory and he may not have ever been fully healthy either. And Sabonis also rebounds.
sactowndog
Hall of Famer
I’m not missing it. I’m telling you what I hear from other NBA people. Sabonis’s career numbers are pretty bad and yes last year was pretty good. But people question if last year was a 1 off. I say that point because if Sabonis could reliably hit .400 on 4+ 3 point shots he would be in much higher demand. And clearly he is not.
The fact we tried and couldn’t trade Sabonis for draft assets it the salient point.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
He's no Luka.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Cam Boozer is not close to the athleticism of Blake Griffin. Not remotely close.
Section 101
All-Star
That's more indicative of the current CBA.
I don't see how last year can be written off as a fluke when he's been pretty damn good out there for the previous three. But also... if he could reliably shoot .400 on 4+ attempts per game he'd be a different player. That wasn't really what the question was about. It was about how to classify him now. And I personally think that if NBA front offices are so worried about shooting that they can't figure out what to do with an All-Star big man like Sabonis unless he transforms himself into a poor man's Dirk then those people are idiots. (Not the low IQ kind of idiot exactly, but rather the "everything must be either a circle, a square, or a triangle" type of idiot).
Which is probably a good thing. Blake's NBA career ended after 756 games which adds up to just over 9 full seasons. High-flying human wrecking balls burn bright but they also burn quick (see also Zion Williamson).
QWERTYLICIOUS
Starter
That wasn't @hrdboild's point, though...
I think the only reason we aren't talking about Labaron Philon Jr. more right now (it seems to be mainly just me and the Capt.) is that we've been dwelling on the consensus top 5 and expecting that's the pool of player we'll be drafting from. This kid is worthy about being talked about in the same category as the elite Freshmen in this class imo....
QWERTYLICIOUS
Starter
If we do go down the "draft a PG route", would you take him over any of the following?
Darryn Peterson
Kingston Flemings
Mikel Brown
Keaton Wagler
Brayden Burries
Darius Acuff
UNC's Caleb Wilson out rest of season after thumb surgery
North Carolina star freshman Caleb Wilson will miss the remainder of the season after breaking his right thumb during practice, the school announced.
Just when he was about to come back from a broken left hand, Caleb Wilson has broken his right thumb (while dunking, of course) and will miss the remainder of the season with thumb surgery. Boo.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Pretty much every PG has a reason to be considered the top one of this draft. There isn't a ton gap between any of them TBH.
This is kind of my understanding of the modern vernacular. A wing is basically part of the modern 5 out systems and is not a PG or C. But the best teams have an old school "4" who is adapted to the modern game, and that is a "big wing". These players are unguardable by SG and SF sized wings.
Am I right or wrong? Don't know.
I like that he compares his game most to Jrue Holiday’s. You don’t hear that name thrown out there often but I see Milwaukee’s success had a whole lot to do with him.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
I'm not sure Peterson will develop into a PG but he's also so far above the others on that list in terms of potential it's not even close. As for the rest, Wagler and Acuff seem to be the stand outs if the Kings are looking for a focal point. I'm still very unsure about Flemings. His frame and his lack of physicality are concerning. He doesn't look to draw contact and he doesn't have the body to really do so. The question is what is a better shooting Fox that gets to the line less than half the time? One of the common aspects of a top option in the NBA is the ability to get to the line. Out of the top 30 scorers this season the only players getting to the line less than 5 times a game are all wings. Porter Jr, Ingram, Murphy III, etc.
Me personally @QWERTYLICIOUS, I would take Philon over all of them. There are certain things I look for in a lead guard and he checks every box. His handle and first step allow him to get wherever he wants and when he gets there he's got his head up looking to make a pass but can also take the bump and finish. The shooting is good enough as is the defense, most of the time. He has some pretty bad lapses occasionally but nearly everyone does at this level. Bottom line though, I don't see a ton of separation between the top guards so it's more about style of play than talent for me.
I've already blown a lot of hot air over Peterson and I don't want to rehash all of it. He's looked to me at points this season like he will struggle to finish over NBA defenders though how much of that is due to his nagging lower body injuries limiting his natural bounce is an open question. I don't watch a lot of HS basketball anymore so I can't speak to how he looked pre-injury. After starting the year exceptionally hot from deep (and carefully picking and choosing when to play) he's now cooled off with more reps to the point where Wagler, Acuff, and Philon are all shooting a better percentage on threes than he is. But mostly it's his Assist to Turnover ratio which is a big problem for me. It puts him squarely in SG-only territory and maybe also volume-scorer which is not a player type that I love. I have him ranked 5th.
I've already blown a lot of hot air over Peterson and I don't want to rehash all of it. He's looked to me at points this season like he will struggle to finish over NBA defenders though how much of that is due to his nagging lower body injuries limiting his natural bounce is an open question. I don't watch a lot of HS basketball anymore so I can't speak to how he looked pre-injury. After starting the year exceptionally hot from deep (and carefully picking and choosing when to play) he's now cooled off with more reps to the point where Wagler, Acuff, and Philon are all shooting a better percentage on threes than he is. But mostly it's his Assist to Turnover ratio which is a big problem for me. It puts him squarely in SG-only territory and maybe also volume-scorer which is not a player type that I love. I have him ranked 5th.
