You don't coach NBA basketball like you do a high school or even college. If you have a "backbone" with the egos in this league, they are going to sabotage you. You can't coach that way with Ron Artest, for example. If you do, you would be asking for trouble. Some people want to treat NBA players like little kids. These are full grown men that have been playing basketball their entire lives. You treat them like you treat a professional in anything. You give them respect and let them do their thing. Adelman understood that and that is why he got the most out of his players. However, I think it is still too early to be calling for Muss's head. This team is not underachieving. With the way our team is setup, it is not suprising that our record is what it is. The difference is that Adelman was a master at getting a team to play as a team. His teams regularly overachieved. That is why Kings bball was so fun to watch. Muss is nowhere near that level yet. I for one am willing to give him some more time.
Mistake to fire Adelman?
- Thread starter Beezy
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You don't coach NBA basketball like you do a high school or even college. If you have a "backbone" with the egos in this league, they are going to sabotage you. You can't coach that way with Ron Artest, for example. If you do, you would be asking for trouble. Some people want to treat NBA players like little kids. These are full grown men that have been playing basketball their entire lives. You treat them like you treat a professional in anything. You give them respect and let them do their thing. Adelman understood that and that is why he got the most out of his players. However, I think it is still too early to be calling for Muss's head. This team is not underachieving. With the way our team is setup, it is not suprising that our record is what it is. The difference is that Adelman was a master at getting a team to play as a team. His teams regularly overachieved. That is why Kings bball was so fun to watch. Muss is nowhere near that level yet. I for one am willing to give him some more time.
Possibly. Which is why I wouldn't have those players on my team.
I'm a professional. I did my thing. But, I never was allowed to freelance and just "wing it". If a project or job needed to be finished by a date and I didn't do it by then ... I'd be "benched".
Being treated like a professional isn't about letting people do their thing.
If they acted like responsible professionals ... wouldn't be an issue, would it?
I'm a professional. I did my thing. But, I never was allowed to freelance and just "wing it". If a project or job needed to be finished by a date and I didn't do it by then ... I'd be "benched".
Being treated like a professional isn't about letting people do their thing.
If they acted like responsible professionals ... wouldn't be an issue, would it?
Comes a time in a coach's life cycle when the players tune him out - they just need a fresh voice. That's proabably what happened to Adelman. His replacement is iffy though. Pretty soon, it will be Petrie's head that will be in question. Afterall, he did recommend Musselman, who, in his first pre-season as the coach of the Kings got a DUI. Talk about a horrible start. I don't think Musselman is qualified to right the wrongs of this team. IMO, they need to clean up and start from scratch --- it's the only way to look better, or have a positive outlook of things. This team will be hard-pressed to make the playoffs, and most likely be bounced early if they even get there.
Couldn't agree more! Works for every coach with a ring too, there's usually a Bill Russell or Jordan or at least like a Tim Duncan or something. And of course once a coach gets one suddenly he's some genius or zen master. And yeah, typing that made me want to spit at the screen. Phil's a good example though, I really don't buy his act. He's a good coach but MJ and Shaq put rings on his fingers and not the other way around. If Muss had the _exact_ same mind as Phil, had all his knowledge and coaching ability....he could still lose this team and his job just because he's a newer face and not a respected coach yet. Imagine Muss ordering Ron Artest to read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance now. That was fun. 
I'm having this weird daydream where Muss does make Ron read zen books (while he's injured) and then give a brief report on what they were about. Then the reports would end up on youtube for us to watch, of course.
Better go to bed before I start typing about Douby or something.
I'm having this weird daydream where Muss does make Ron read zen books (while he's injured) and then give a brief report on what they were about. Then the reports would end up on youtube for us to watch, of course.
Better go to bed before I start typing about Douby or something.
Couldn't agree more! Works for every coach with a ring too, there's usually a Bill Russell or Jordan or at least like a Tim Duncan or something. And of course once a coach gets one suddenly he's some genius or zen master. And yeah, typing that made me want to spit at the screen. Phil's a good example though, I really don't buy his act. He's a good coach but MJ and Shaq put rings on his fingers and not the other way around. If Muss had the _exact_ same mind as Phil, had all his knowledge and coaching ability....he could still lose this team and his job just because he's a newer face and not a respected coach yet. Imagine Muss ordering Ron Artest to read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance now. That was fun.
I'm having this weird daydream where Muss does make Ron read zen books (while he's injured) and then give a brief report on what they were about. Then the reports would end up on youtube for us to watch, of course.
Better go to bed before I start typing about Douby or something.
I'm having this weird daydream where Muss does make Ron read zen books (while he's injured) and then give a brief report on what they were about. Then the reports would end up on youtube for us to watch, of course.
Better go to bed before I start typing about Douby or something.
er....rumpled? You been hanging out with Mo?
Given the hour maybe Muss?
Muss is trying to be friends with his players and not step on any toes. Anyone who allows Artest to sub himself in and out at his leisure and then asks our hurt and shoot first p.g. what type of offense we should run (and then, not surprisingly we ran our inverted offense every single play without exception -- no post offense) does not belong on the sideline. IMO he will be gone by the end of this year. This team needed an established coach who our players respect, not someone they can run rough shot all over.
Sorry to go on a rampage but I have another problem with our team so far. If we were planning on running the same crappy inverted offense as last year, why exactly did we fire the master and apprentice of said offense? Last years team was not even designed to run a Princeton-type offense once Peja was traded. This offense suits two players on this team: Bibby because he cannot distribute the ball and Brad since he can fulfill the distributor role. Outside of these two players, the pieces do not fit very well. I guess I should not be surprised considering Muss essentially granted Bibby the choice as to which offense "HE" would like to implement. Unless I am gravely mistaken, it is the coaches job to implement an offense which benefits the skill set of the entire team. However, this style of offense completely encourages Artest to jack-up perimeter shots and ignores Reef's greatest asset.....his post-game. We need efficiency from those two players and Muss just assured that Artest will be a volume shooter and Reef a ghost-man. Good job buddy.
Couldn't agree more! Works for every coach with a ring too, there's usually a Bill Russell or Jordan or at least like a Tim Duncan or something. And of course once a coach gets one suddenly he's some genius or zen master. And yeah, typing that made me want to spit at the screen. Phil's a good example though, I really don't buy his act. He's a good coach but MJ and Shaq put rings on his fingers and not the other way around. If Muss had the _exact_ same mind as Phil, had all his knowledge and coaching ability....he could still lose this team and his job just because he's a newer face and not a respected coach yet. Imagine Muss ordering Ron Artest to read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance now. That was fun.
I'm having this weird daydream where Muss does make Ron read zen books (while he's injured) and then give a brief report on what they were about. Then the reports would end up on youtube for us to watch, of course.
Better go to bed before I start typing about Douby or something.
I'm having this weird daydream where Muss does make Ron read zen books (while he's injured) and then give a brief report on what they were about. Then the reports would end up on youtube for us to watch, of course.
Better go to bed before I start typing about Douby or something.
This is how I see it:
Give Adleman the right personnel, he'll win.
Give Musselman the right personnel, he'll win.
Pattern eh?
Put Adleman in the playoffs, he won't take you where you want to go.
Put Musselman in the playoffs... it's a mystery. Maybe he can do it, we don't know.
We don't have the right personnel either way. I think we should be playing better than we are though and that I attribute to some conflict amongst players. Artest thinks some players are not with everyone else on defense, but its obvious Artest is not with everyone else on the offensive end.
Give Adleman the right personnel, he'll win.
Give Musselman the right personnel, he'll win.
Pattern eh?
Put Adleman in the playoffs, he won't take you where you want to go.
Put Musselman in the playoffs... it's a mystery. Maybe he can do it, we don't know.
We don't have the right personnel either way. I think we should be playing better than we are though and that I attribute to some conflict amongst players. Artest thinks some players are not with everyone else on defense, but its obvious Artest is not with everyone else on the offensive end.
The "void of information" would include whetehr Muss can even win in this league in the REGULAR season. Hell, we don't even know if he's ever going to coach a playoff game. Lose this team, head to the lottery, get fired, = career sub .500 coach and maybe never another shot.
This is his career right here. There is no real evidence he is a winning coach, jsut a hope. If he wants to have a long NBA career, he's got 2 years tops to set the groundwork I would imagine, maybe shorter if it all goes badly enough. His dad's good name and nice interviewing skills will only get him so far if he keeps on losing. If he can't reach these guys then evidence will be rapdily mouonting that he might make him a better analyst or best selling author of "1001 Highly Complex Plays That You'll Never Use" than a coach.
This is his career right here. There is no real evidence he is a winning coach, jsut a hope. If he wants to have a long NBA career, he's got 2 years tops to set the groundwork I would imagine, maybe shorter if it all goes badly enough. His dad's good name and nice interviewing skills will only get him so far if he keeps on losing. If he can't reach these guys then evidence will be rapdily mouonting that he might make him a better analyst or best selling author of "1001 Highly Complex Plays That You'll Never Use" than a coach.
I don't miss Adelman at all. He was a good coach but I was completely comfortable with the change and felt that it was time.
As for Muss so far, its tough to say. Although I give him credit for playing hurt, Bibby's terrible right now. Miller has been hurt and been awful when he's played. Ron isn't necessarily sub-par, but he's on the low end of what you'd expect from him. Martin, obviously has been outstanding.
So where do you give credit and assess blame? Is Muss at least partly to blame for Bibby, Miller, and Artest playing so collectively poor? Does he deserve credit for helping Martin's star turn this year? Could be yes on both points. Thus far, I have not been impressed, but I understand that there has been a lot working against him.
As for Muss so far, its tough to say. Although I give him credit for playing hurt, Bibby's terrible right now. Miller has been hurt and been awful when he's played. Ron isn't necessarily sub-par, but he's on the low end of what you'd expect from him. Martin, obviously has been outstanding.
So where do you give credit and assess blame? Is Muss at least partly to blame for Bibby, Miller, and Artest playing so collectively poor? Does he deserve credit for helping Martin's star turn this year? Could be yes on both points. Thus far, I have not been impressed, but I understand that there has been a lot working against him.
Ah, yes, that player ring.
We've all seen how that makes for a brilliant manager. Isiah Thomas, Magic Johnson, or heck, how about our own Bill Russell (17-41)?
We've all seen how that makes for a brilliant manager. Isiah Thomas, Magic Johnson, or heck, how about our own Bill Russell (17-41)?
What has Sloan done that makes him so great in the playoffs? He can't pull the trigger when it counts, and his decision making seems to trail off during crunch time. Not to mention the fact that Sloan had Stockton and Malone to carry him all those years. Without them he's mediocre.
I can't believe a Kings fan would say this. Just like the Princeton offense that Adelman ran, the Triangle offense takes awhile for players to become comfortable running it.
There is a reason that LA played so much better after the allstar break. They were no longer second guessing where they were supposed to be on the court. They started playing freely.
There is a reason that LA played so much better after the allstar break. They were no longer second guessing where they were supposed to be on the court. They started playing freely.
I disagree about Jerry Sloan, I think he's an excellent coach. It seems that every year that Jazz team has a key player injured for a long period of time (Kirilenko, Boozer). The talent level without those guys was just nowhere close - he also made very solid players out of Raja Bell, Harpring, etc... Even with Stockton and Malone, Hornacek was the only serious player on that team. I'll never understand how Utah got to the finals twice despite the talent of Houston, Seattle, Phoenix, Spurs and the rest of the West.
Oh yes the superstar combo reasons, and I am sure if the lakers manage to win another ring with this team and Phil you would say that he had Kobe and Lamar or maybe Bynum. Obviously for any team to win a championship you will need players playing at a high level most of the season and through the playoffs and that can be said about any team and any coach.
The difference with Phil is that he is able to assess talent within his team with what they can do and most importantly what they cannot do, emphasise on team defense and asserting the roles for each of the players including the bench warmers. You could argue the same way about the teams before phil, in fact the lakers squad during harris days were supposed to be the most talented. During MJ and pippens days he ensured that it was about MJ and pippen being the side kick, with Shaq and kobe it was all about shaq, he made sure that the team knew who the MAN was on the team and the side kicks were only side kicks, they had their moment, they stepped up in certain situtations but that was not plan A, that was plan B.
Can Pop win a championship without Duncan, heck he doesnt even seem to be capable of repeating with that kind of team in place. Could Larry have won a ring without the wallaces, could he have won the ring with Brad miller in place of Ben Wallace, or Bibby in place of Chauncey, we will never know but one can argue.
Mike Antoni imo is a very good coach who has put in a great offensive system and is also able to analyze the skills of his players atleast from the offense standpoint and is maximizing it. You can always question that it will it be the same without Nash on the team, we are able to see that it is not since we know the + and - when nash is on the floor or not. But that doesnt mean Mike is not to credit, he has put in a system to take advantage of nash's skills and both are benifiting, maybe if nash retired he would alter his scheme to suit the new team. Good coaches do and the spectacular ones know to win it all with that team.
Sloan is a very good coach but I dont think he is great, in that famous game against the bulls, jazz had posession of the ball with very little time left on the clock and they expected a foul. it went well , entry pass to malone was made, he was posting up and expecting a foul, the place where Sloan failed to prepare his team was for a double team for a steal, no players on the floor alerted malone and MJ makes the steal and then the game winning shot. But Phil prepared his team, allowed MJ to double and gamble for a steal and it worked out well.
Maybe you and me would have also won a ring with those lakers teams or the bulls teams as the head coach
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The difference with Phil is that he is able to assess talent within his team with what they can do and most importantly what they cannot do, emphasise on team defense and asserting the roles for each of the players including the bench warmers. You could argue the same way about the teams before phil, in fact the lakers squad during harris days were supposed to be the most talented. During MJ and pippens days he ensured that it was about MJ and pippen being the side kick, with Shaq and kobe it was all about shaq, he made sure that the team knew who the MAN was on the team and the side kicks were only side kicks, they had their moment, they stepped up in certain situtations but that was not plan A, that was plan B.
Can Pop win a championship without Duncan, heck he doesnt even seem to be capable of repeating with that kind of team in place. Could Larry have won a ring without the wallaces, could he have won the ring with Brad miller in place of Ben Wallace, or Bibby in place of Chauncey, we will never know but one can argue.
Mike Antoni imo is a very good coach who has put in a great offensive system and is also able to analyze the skills of his players atleast from the offense standpoint and is maximizing it. You can always question that it will it be the same without Nash on the team, we are able to see that it is not since we know the + and - when nash is on the floor or not. But that doesnt mean Mike is not to credit, he has put in a system to take advantage of nash's skills and both are benifiting, maybe if nash retired he would alter his scheme to suit the new team. Good coaches do and the spectacular ones know to win it all with that team.
Sloan is a very good coach but I dont think he is great, in that famous game against the bulls, jazz had posession of the ball with very little time left on the clock and they expected a foul. it went well , entry pass to malone was made, he was posting up and expecting a foul, the place where Sloan failed to prepare his team was for a double team for a steal, no players on the floor alerted malone and MJ makes the steal and then the game winning shot. But Phil prepared his team, allowed MJ to double and gamble for a steal and it worked out well.
Maybe you and me would have also won a ring with those lakers teams or the bulls teams as the head coach
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Maybe you and me would have also won a ring with those lakers teams or the bulls teams as the head coach
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Teh "zen master" has proven nothing more than that he's just another good coach when you strip him of multiple Top 10 all time talents. A good one, but nothing special or above everybody else's head.
Don't the Jazz have the best record in the NBA?
If the Jazz hadn't been at their best in the '90s and having to deal with the Jordan-led Bulls, they would probably have two championships under Jerry Sloan. Would you still be saying that he's worn out his welcome?
Coaches can lose games for you, but they can't will their teams to victory. The greatest coaches in the history of the game all had some of the greatest players.
If the Jazz hadn't been at their best in the '90s and having to deal with the Jordan-led Bulls, they would probably have two championships under Jerry Sloan. Would you still be saying that he's worn out his welcome?
Coaches can lose games for you, but they can't will their teams to victory. The greatest coaches in the history of the game all had some of the greatest players.
Just as hemm said here before "Off topic, but he coached much of the same team that went 34-48 in '05 without him. Last year they were 45-37 and dangerous in the playoffs and now he's got them in first place. They're not a favorite for it all, but they're contenders. Phil Jackson is an incrdeible coach."
A team that went 15-1 in the playoffs, sweeping the so called western conference powerhouses and the supposedly favourite spurs. The last two games in that series were more like NBA Vs JV with 30+ point leads getting into the last quarter.
Its just that you and me were into other professions that we couldnt just step in there and get those three rings. What a lucky guy phil is, how lucky for him that his players were playing at such a high level that the teams coached by pop and rick were swept under the rug, or that other team coached by larry managed only one win against that team.
How lucky for a guy to get 9 rings, those stupid bulls and lakers owners who could have paid 9 million less for me and I would have sat there and gotten those 9 rings with those players. How lucky for that guy phil that all the players who played for him say that he is the best coach ever and that he is the best to prepare them in the playoffs.
How lucky for that guy that the top 10 all time talents say that he is the best coach.
So will you call him lucky if he takes this lakers team to the WCF this year ?
By the way, who is the best coach in your opinion, if at all there is any
A team that went 15-1 in the playoffs, sweeping the so called western conference powerhouses and the supposedly favourite spurs. The last two games in that series were more like NBA Vs JV with 30+ point leads getting into the last quarter.
Its just that you and me were into other professions that we couldnt just step in there and get those three rings. What a lucky guy phil is, how lucky for him that his players were playing at such a high level that the teams coached by pop and rick were swept under the rug, or that other team coached by larry managed only one win against that team.
How lucky for a guy to get 9 rings, those stupid bulls and lakers owners who could have paid 9 million less for me and I would have sat there and gotten those 9 rings with those players. How lucky for that guy phil that all the players who played for him say that he is the best coach ever and that he is the best to prepare them in the playoffs.
How lucky for that guy that the top 10 all time talents say that he is the best coach.
So will you call him lucky if he takes this lakers team to the WCF this year ?
By the way, who is the best coach in your opinion, if at all there is any