Minny's Second Rounders?

LPKingsFan

LPKingsFan

All-Star
According to the Pioneer Press, the T-Wolves may be interested in trading their 2nd rounders for future picks. They have the first and fourth picks in the second round, and if I'm Petrie, I'm definitely interested. There's a lot of talent in the late first round that could slip, such as Cal's Hardin and Anderson (who apparently is working out with the Kings), and Kyle Weaver. Not sure if a simple future second would be enough, though, maybe we could add some cash?
 
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Second rounders are non-guaranteed contracts, so even if Geoff isn't able to clean shop, we can still use summer league and camp before we have to think hard about keeping them. And since when are we worried about space during the rebuild? I thought the point was stockpiling as much quality young talent as possible.
 
I'm sorry but I don't follow your reasoning.

If we don't have roster spaces available for players, it seems patently unfair to me to take them in the draft knowing we won't be able to use them.

Just where do you intend on "stockpiling" all this "quality young talent" you're thinking we're going to find in the second round anyway?
 
VF21 said:
I'm sorry but I don't follow your reasoning.

If we don't have roster spaces available for players, it seems patently unfair to me to take them in the draft knowing we won't be able to use them.

Just where do you intend on "stockpiling" all this "quality young talent" you're thinking we're going to find in the second round anyway?
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This is where the NBA needs to change its rules. If a team wants to send a player to the developmental league, it shouldn't count against that teams salary cap, and as far as I know, it does. Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong. So far the Kings haven't been involved in the developmental league. It works for baseball, so there's no reason it can't work for basketball.
 
VF21 said:
I'm sorry but I don't follow your reasoning.

If we don't have roster spaces available for players, it seems patently unfair to me to take them in the draft knowing we won't be able to use them.

Just where do you intend on "stockpiling" all this "quality young talent" you're thinking we're going to find in the second round anyway?
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We should have enough roster spots for a couple though.
 
Isn't that why the rosters were expanded a year ago, so teams could stash players in the D-League? Frankly, I'm surprised the Kings haven't taken advantage of the opportunity already. We could have kept Justin Williams on the roster instead of cutting him and then resigning him again later in the year. It makes a lot of sense to overdraft, knowing you're only going to keep 12 players on your active roster anyway, and see who develops and who doesn't. Unfortunately, we've got all our extra roster spots tied up with players who don't play but need to stay on the roster anyway because of their contracts.
 
BMiller52 said:
We should have enough roster spots for a couple though.
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And our own draft picks from rounds one and two could utilize them. In addition, Geoff Petrie RARELY carries a full roster to begin with - preferring to leave at least one slot available "just in case".

One other thing? I do NOT want to see us trading away future draft picks unless there's a really good reason. "Stockpiling" potential young talent isn't a good reason IMHO. It's another gamble I don't think we should be taking.
 
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Rarely do 2nd round picks work out. Its probably less than 50% they even make the team. So I see no issue in picking up another pick or two. Doubles your chances of actually finding a couple of keepers. And that early in the 2nd round, is not too far off from another late first round pick. Would add emphasis to the attempts to shed the KT and SAR contracts as well --and while Geoff might in fact end up keeping every salaried player we currently have on the roster around for next year, if he does he is going to be appropriately pelted by rotten fruit on his walk to the office every day for the rest of his (short) career. I don't think you can come up with more than 10 players currently under salary that are keepers for next year.
 
I'm all for moving up in the second round or acquiring more picks.

Like Brick and many have said, the second round is a crapshoot. However, this way, we can increase our odds and see what pans out during training camp.

IMO, it's better to have young talent with upside at camp than career Euro-Leaguers like Caner-Medley, Loren Woods, Pooh Jeter et al.

However, I wouldn't mind packaging our two second-rounders for a late first-round pick...on top of the usual Kenny Thomas buyout request.
 
Bricklayer said:
Rarely do 2nd round picks work out. Its probably less than 50% they even make the team. So I see no issue in picking up another pick or two. Doubles your chances of actually finding a couple of keepers. And that early in the 2nd round, is not too far off from another late first round pick. Would add emphasis to the attempts to shed the KT and SAR contracts as well --and while Geoff might in fact end up keeping every salaried player we currently have on the roster around for next year, if he does he is going to be appropriately pelted by rotten fruit on his walk to the office every day for the rest of his (short) career. I don't think you can come up with more than 10 players currently under salary that are keepers for next year.
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Okay, I may really be missing something but isn't the whole thing a question of whether we want to trade future draft picks for more second round draft picks?

I'd rather use our future picks, if necessary, to try and sweeten a deal to rid ourselves of some of the excess baggage we're going to be carrying. We need to get rid of some of them - KT and SAR immediately spring to mind (even when I don't want them to) - much more than we need to draft picks we most likely won't even keep.
 
The only reason I would consider it is because of the PFs/Cs in this years draft. You have probably 5-10 guys that are more than first round talent that will fall to the second round because of the overwhelming amount of PFs in this years draft.

If all that have declared stay in the draft you have; (players projected late 1st to 2nd)

1. Jason Thompson
2. Ryan Anderson
3. JJ Hickson
4. DJ White
5. Richard Hendrix
6. DeVon Hardin
7. Nicola Pekovic
8. Alexis Ajinca
9. Nathan Jawai
10. Omer Asik
11. Semih Erden
12. Joe Dorsey
13. Sasha Kaun

Now the other players I wouldn't mind getting a look at...

1. Ty Lawson
2. Mario Chalmers
3. Kyle Weaver
4. Lester Hudson
5. Joe Alexander
6. Goran Dragic
7. Jamont Gordon
8. Pat Calathes
9. Keith Brumbaugh
10. Anton Ponkrashov


There is going to be a couple undrafted FA's that I wouldn't mind taking a look at either..

1. Sean Singletary
2. Rob McKiver
3. DeMarcus Nelson
4. Sasha Kaun (if he's not drafted he would be my first call if I were Petrie because he is Chemistry+ in a 6'11 frame. Kaun can play with anyone.)
 
VF21 said:
Okay, I may really be missing something but isn't the whole thing a question of whether we want to trade future draft picks for more second round draft picks?

I'd rather use our future picks, if necessary, to try and sweeten a deal to rid ourselves of some of the excess baggage we're going to be carrying. We need to get rid of some of them - KT and SAR immediately spring to mind (even when I don't want them to) - much more than we need to draft picks we most likely won't even keep.
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There is now, and there is then. One is a reality and the other one is a maybe. In a year that there is a surplus of big men in the draft, some of which would maybe be lottery picks in other years, I think you roll the dice and see what you can come up with.
Were talking about second round picks here. I wouldn't give up any future first round picks, but second round picks, I say go for it.
 
Gary said:
The only reason I would consider it is because of the PFs/Cs in this years draft. You have probably 5-10 guys that are more than first round talent that will fall to the second round because of the overwhelming amount of PFs in this years draft.

If all that have declared stay in the draft you have; (players projected late 1st to 2nd)

1. Jason Thompson
2. Ryan Anderson
3. JJ Hickson
4. DJ White
5. Richard Hendrix
6. DeVon Hardin
7. Nicola Pekovic
8. Alexis Ajinca
9. Nathan Jawai
10. Omer Asik
11. Semih Erden
12. Joe Dorsey
13. Sasha Kaun

Now the other players I wouldn't mind getting a look at...

1. Ty Lawson
2. Mario Chalmers
3. Kyle Weaver
4. Lester Hudson
5. Joe Alexander
6. Goran Dragic
7. Jamont Gordon
8. Pat Calathes
9. Keith Brumbaugh
10. Anton Ponkrashov


There is going to be a couple undrafted FA's that I wouldn't mind taking a look at either..

1. Sean Singletary
2. Rob McKiver
3. DeMarcus Nelson
4. Sasha Kaun (if he's not drafted he would be my first call if I were Petrie because he is Chemistry+ in a 6'11 frame. Kaun can play with anyone.)
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You named two of my dark horses. Sasha Kaun and DeMarcus Nelson, the later with Sacramento ties. Kaun is an intriguing player. I've allways felt that he had the talent and the size to be a good player, but just never quite lived up to expectations. Because of his underacheivment, I don't know if I would use a second round pick on him, but I certainly would give him an invite as a free agent. That goes for Nelson, who I might use a pick on if no one else was available that I lusted for.
 
VF21 said:
Okay, I may really be missing something but isn't the whole thing a question of whether we want to trade future draft picks for more second round draft picks?

I'd rather use our future picks, if necessary, to try and sweeten a deal to rid ourselves of some of the excess baggage we're going to be carrying. We need to get rid of some of them - KT and SAR immediately spring to mind (even when I don't want them to) - much more than we need to draft picks we most likely won't even keep.
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Unfortunately I just do not realistically think that a future 2nd round pick is going to be of any real use in leveraging KT or SAR onto another team. The ONLY way I can see anybody else taking either one of those contracts off our hands now would be as matching salaries in a major deal. Nobody is going to take them for themselves anymore, 2nd round pick or no 2nd round pick -- 30-something yr old undersized PFs with multiyear contracts at $6-$7mil a year, and coming off years in which they basically were out of the league. So what I would like to do is take every possible step to just replacing them with younger types with a future. We've already crossed that threshhold about paying guys not on our roster -- that's all KT and SAR were this past season anyway -- money sinks. They were $13mil just down the drain and contributing nothing to the product on the floor. So if we draft some kid of interest who shows something in summer league and training camp, just cut the old sorry guys if nothing else. Be no different than this past season. Except that the replacement guy might have a future.

We've just GOT to at some point put our foot down and commit to a rebuild with youth. This lazy eternal half rebuild is like a lazy cut or lazy route run by a wide receiver in football. A big soft loop without any definition or sharp ness that never actually gets you open. We need to commit, go hard, and finally get this over with or by the time we actually do get some young guys in our current young guys won't be anymore (that's already happening actually).
 
A lot of us would like to see KT and SAR gone but the salary cap comes into play. Even with a buy-out I think you still carry the buy-out salary for the years they had remaining.

So, for now, two slots are down the drain yet still costing the Kings $13M. So with the remaining 13 slots we have 9 solid returners:
Beno, RonRon, Kevin, Mikki, Brad, Cisco, Salmons, Hawes and Douby plus Shelden on the bubble. Johnson and Wright are gone to clear cap space.

The Kings have a first rounder and 2 seconds plus some interesting free agents (Caner-Medley is my dark horse, especially if he is at summer league). A number of possible second rounders are "projects" who could be signed for minimums and "stashed" in the D-League anyway.

In the past couple of months I heard tid-bits about the Kings getting their own D-League team and "stashing" it in Reno. But I like much better the idea of a D-league team playing their home games at Arco before Kings home games and you see both with one Kings ticket!!! If only a D-league team could sign its free agents with no impact on the NBA sponsoring team, then an NBA team could stash a max of 2 or 3 signed players from their roster on the D-league team. Then that Kings D-league team would play the same style as the Kings. They even could practice together to better see the possibilities of up-and-coming players in their system. That's what I think!! ;)
 
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bajaden said:
...Were talking about second round picks here. I wouldn't give up any future first round picks, but second round picks, I say go for it.
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Thank you. That's the part I somehow missed ... or didn't understand. I have no problem with trading away future seconds, for the most part, but I certainly don't want us to trade away any firsts.
 
VF21 said:
Thank you. That's the part I somehow missed ... or didn't understand. I have no problem with trading away future seconds, for the most part, but I certainly don't want us to trade away any firsts.
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Oh, yeah, definitely not trading future firsts. Apologize for any confusion. I may have misread the article, there's no way they were asking for future firsts, right?
 
CruzDude said:
A lot of us would like to see KT and SAR gone but the salary cap comes into play. Even with a buy-out I think you still carry the buy-out salary for the years they had remaining.

So, for now, two slots are down the drain yet still costing the Kings $13M. So with the remaining 13 slots we have 9 solid returners:
Beno, RonRon, Kevin, Mikki, Brad, Cisco, Salmons, Hawes and Douby plus Shelden on the bubble. Johnson and Wright are gone to clear cap space.

The Kings have a first rounder and 2 seconds plus some interesting free agents (Caner-Medley is my dark horse, especially if he is at summer league). A number of possible second rounders are "projects" who could be signed for minimums and "stashed" in the D-League anyway.

In the past couple of months I heard tid-bits about the Kings getting their own D-League team and "stashing" it in Reno. But I like much better the idea of a D-league team playing their home games at Arco before Kings home games and you see both with one Kings ticket!!! If only a D-league team could sign its free agents with no impact on the NBA sponsoring team, then an NBA team could stash a max of 2 or 3 signed players from their roster on the D-league team. Then that Kings D-league team would play the same style as the Kings. They even could practice together to better see the possibilities of up-and-coming players in their system. That's what I think!! ;)
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I like your ideas of the Kings having their own NBADL team at Arco. Theoretically, it would keep player development in coordination with current team principles, staff could monitor players with ease, and draft picks who won't see the floor that much have a chance to play.

However, Petrie doesn't seem much of a fan of sending players to the D-League, as he feels that it is more important for players to become acclimated to the 82-game season first. But if we keep these second-rounders and want to keep the youth momentum building for the next few years, I think a local d-league team would be beneficial.

Back to topic, and to clear any confusion, I was previously proposing that the Kings package their two 2nd rounders for a later first round pick in the upcoming draft.
 
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