Miller: The Worst Defending Center in the NBA

[HndsmCelt]

Back to the topic... Brad's defense sucks? Are you just noticing that? Brad is not now, never has been and will be a "compleet package" If a team wants/needs to exploit his UNIQUE tallents of excellent passing skills, shooting ablity and over all "smart play" then that team really has to play him WITH power forwards who can rebound, defend on the low post and post up, SAR was a last minuet miricale signing who brought 1 out of three and now Brads lack of defense looks even worse, NOT that I am blaming SAR for Brad's pathetic defense. Whn Brad palyed with Vlade, JO, and Webb his lousy D was not not nearly as exposed and his mediocre rebounding was less an issue.

So today we have a front line of Brad, SAR, and Pedja, probably 3 of the WORST rebounders for their positions and it gets worse on D. Pedja and SAR seem to do ok man to man but once they loose their guy there is no presence in the paint to alter shots, get blocks or even pull down defensive boards. As much as it pains me to look at it I just don't see this combo getting much better on D, BUT perhaps a modified zone leaving SAR back and sending Brad out mingt be worth a try, problem here is that I just don't see SAR as any better at defending in the paint than Brad and with his speed SAR actually does ok out on the permitier... really a no win situation.

 

[Bricklayer]

but his perimeter rotating help defense is awesome, and one of the reasons teams have a hard time penetrating and getting layups against the Kings.

Oh my.

Looking at individual stats is missing the entire point in a player of Reef's ilk, as it is with Peja. Reef does absolutley nothing BUT guard his own man. Guys fly to the hoop, pummel us on the glass, and he's just absent. This is not new.

BTW, I'm not calling Reef soft, EVERYBODY not in the Reef camp calls him soft and has been for years now. The curtain was pulled back some years ago. It is a huge part of what has gone wrong here for us -- not one single member of our frontcourt does the dirtywork or little things that actually allow you to win. They are all variations on pretty and soft, don't board, don't bang, don't block shots. Just out there to contribute on the other side of the court, where they are all held down from fully contributing at what they do well by the excess of scorers we trot out there.

 

[Bricklayer]

So today we have a front line of Brad, SAR, and Pedja, probably 3 of the WORST rebounders for their positions and it gets worse on D. Pedja and SAR seem to do ok man to man but once they loose their guy there is no presence in the paint to alter shots, get blocks or even pull down defensive boards. As much as it pains me to look at it I just don't see this combo getting much better on D, BUT perhaps a modified zone leaving SAR back and sending Brad out mingt be worth a try, problem here is that I just don't see SAR as any better at defending in the paint than Brad and with his speed SAR actually does ok out on the permitier... really a no win situation.

Bring back Tag and drop into a 2-3!

 

[G_M]

Bring back Tag and drop into a 2-3!

Speaking of that. If you are getting KILLED in the post why not try a little zone? Isn't worth a shot?

 

[HndsmCelt]

Bring back Tag and drop into a 2-3!

I could DEFINATLY get behind that! I'll probably get lynched for this but I'd back a trade that moved SAR for Tag at this point!

 

[nbrans]

Oh my.

Looking at individual stats is missing the entire point in a player of Reef's ilk, as it is with Peja. Reef does absolutley nothing BUT guard his own man. Guys fly to the hoop, pummel us on the glass, and he's just absent. This is not new.

I strongly disagree on this. Watch pick and rolls and the way in which Reef prevents the opposing point guard from penetrating, which is a huge task given Bibby's defensive deficiencies. There are certainly holes in SAR's defensive game, but help defense is not one of them. And while the Kings as a team get pummeled on the glass, if you look at the individual matchups SAR is only slightly losing the rebounding matchup -- that's not exactly to his credit, but if Miller were rebounding better the team overall would be in better shape.

 

[nbrans]

^good god, a zone is a terrible idea. You think the Kings have rebounding problems now? Just wait until the zone appears.

 

[HndsmCelt]

^good god, a zone is a terrible idea. You think the Kings have rebounding problems now? Just wait until the zone appears.

I could get worse?

 

[wow22]

I have too much free time - I looked at each game the kings played so far this season, and looked at the opposing Center Production.

The only player I saw who did not EXCEED his points average for that season is OKUR (and he had a ****ty off night with 5 points)

Going down the list - every game the center easily exceeds his average. In fact in the first 14 games the only players not to shoot over 50% on Brad were camby (9 of 20 for 20 points) and Okur. Interesting huh

This is quantative evidence - you cannot argue against the fact that opposing centers do well against the Kings.

However, a big problem might be Mike - he allows for easy penetration, forcing Brad to slide over and eat the space, and Brad's guy gets a dunk.

 

[nbrans]

However, a big problem might be Mike - he allows for easy penetration, forcing Brad to slide over and eat the space, and Brad's guy gets a dunk.

This assumes that Brad even slides over, which I haven't seen a whole lot of.

 

[kman711]

after this season or during it We need to blow this team up. Im talking change our identity. We cant say oh lets just score more than our opponent. No if we want to win a championship we need to start trading and signing like no other.

 

[Zyphen]

2 things:

1) I don't know why SAR's stats when playing center should be discounted. He plays limited minutes there and most other starting PFs in the league play a proportionate amount of time at center when their coaches choose to go small.

2) Like Brick said, SAR has yet to play the majority of powerhouse PFs in the league and the sample size is too small to make any definitive conclusions that he's become a defensive powerhouse. He got lucky with Garnett. His reputation is deserved. He isn't doing anything different this year. Look at the opposing FG% for PFs when he was on the blazers and you'll find it's a more, down to earth .521%

Do you really think coming to the Kings and having Rick Adelman as his coach has made all the difference? Adelman for defensive coach of the year!

 

[nbrans]

2 things:

1) I don't know why SAR's stats when playing center should be discounted. He plays limited minutes there and most other starting PFs in the league play a proportionate amount of time at center when their coaches choose to go small.

2) Like Brick said, SAR has yet to play the majority of powerhouse PFs in the league and the sample size is too small to make any definitive conclusions that he's become a defensive powerhouse. He got lucky with Garnett. His reputation is deserved. He isn't doing anything different this year. Look at the opposing FG% for PFs when he was on the blazers and you'll find it's a more, down to earth .521%

Do you really think coming to the Kings and having Rick Adelman as his coach has made all the difference? Adelman for defensive coach of the year!

1) I won't vouch for SAR's ability guard centers, all the more reason to play Skinner more.

2) Reef has played Garnett, Duncan, Bosh and Marion. Is that every single powerhouse power forward in the league? No, but it's proportionate to 17 games.

Reef's defensive numbers are better because he's playing power forward and not SF or C. This tracks his career. Last year his numbers certainly weren't good, but opposing efg% was best while he was at PF. Same with 2003-2004. 2002-2003 was slightly better while guarding SF but the sample size is really small.

Also, last year's defensive number certainly wasn't good, but it was also atypical. He had better numbers in previous years. .430 during his time with Portland in 2003-2004, .436 during his 2003-2004 stint with the Hawks, .477 in 2002-2003

I'm not saying he's a great defender, and he's not the Garnett-type player who can go out and guard the best opposing player no matter what the position, but he's a good defender.

 

[Zyphen]

1) I won't vouch for SAR's ability guard centers, all the more reason to play Skinner more.

2) Reef has played Garnett, Duncan, Bosh and Marion. Is that every single powerhouse power forward in the league? No, but it's proportionate to 17 games.

Reef's defensive numbers are better because he's playing power forward and not SF or C. This tracks his career. Last year his numbers certainly weren't good, but opposing efg% was best while he was at PF. Same with 2003-2004. 2002-2003 was slightly better while guarding SF but the sample size is really small.

Also, last year's defensive number certainly wasn't good, but it was also atypical. He had better numbers in previous years. .430 during his time with Portland in 2003-2004, .436 during his 2003-2004 stint with the Hawks, .477 in 2002-2003

I'm not saying he's a great defender, and he's not the Garnett-type player who can go out and guard the best opposing player no matter what the position, but he's a good defender.

Surprising that one year. Wonder why they traded him. He may be a better defender than I thought. But he's definitely not as good as the stats say this year. I expect him to come back down to earth soon.

4 games out of 17 isn't proportionate, btw. He's played all those PFs exactly one time each. Brick named 8 that he still hasn't played. Assuming Brick thought of them all, that's 12 players that SAR would see 3 times (on average) a year. So that's 36/82. He should have seen twice as many powerhouses by now. But you're not trying to say he's a stopper so I won't pursue it. Just saying you got the proportions wrong.

 

[KP]

Reefs a tweener.

Brad can't play D and he never could but he should at least be rebounding more. He's always gotten boards for us, and IMO he's just not as effective now in his new role, as he was the previous years. He needs to adjust his game back a little bit and work on those little things that he used to do so well for us. He's not Vlade Divac, or Chris Webber, he's Brad Miller... and he needs to start playing like it.