Mike Bibby - Too early to say goodbye?

[most_casual_observer]

well now that ive taken some time to think about it. trading mike bibby may not be the best idea, after all...i mean how quickly can we turn on the guy who has carried us so many times. not lately, but he's clutch, not lately, but hes got one of the sweetest J's in the league, and how can you forget what he did to the lakers. maybe it's not him we need to move, maybe this isn't his style...i guess what I'm trying to say is....I don't think we should be so quick to pull the trigger on Mike Bibby. anybody agree?

the light is yellow, and gettin kinda orange...do ya want to floor it or step on the brake? You make the call...I wouldn't call it turning on him, by the way, it's more a matter of assessing performance and making timely decisions in your own best interest. The value of past performance as an indicator of future performance has very finite limits in sports.

I've been hearing everyone talk about going after another 6' 7" guard in exchange for Artest, I can't understand that either. I don't think Ron would be a problem if he had some confidence in what he sees going on around him. He seems to be impatient when surrounded with mediocrity. I personally admire people who will not or cannot tolerate mediocrity.

So, to close the loop, if we plan to stay mediocre for a spell, maybe it would be best to keep Mike and hope he finds his game while we shop Artest for something other than another guard? Maybe a taller guy would serve our current needs better? At any rate, we won't be going much further at status quo, it's time to start praying or start shooting.

 

[BawLa]

It is so easy for emotion to alter one's train of thought.

As much as Bibby has meant to this organization over the last set of years, it is better for this team to move on. And it might even be better for Bibby to find a change of scenery to re-vamp his career. He would make a killer bench threat for a championship caliber team.

Anyway you look at it Bibby is not going to be the PG for the Kings if we expect to win a title. In the time it would take to surround him with championship type talent he will be way out of his prime. So why not cut your losses and try to help both him and our team?

 

[Troy]

Mike is gone way before Ron if the Maloofs have anything to say about it. Mike has the player option in his contract for a reason and he is making too much $ for what he is giving injury or not. Ron and KMart are really the only untouchables, but then again just about anything can be sold for the right price.

 

[supafly]

Everything is for sale for the right price. Honestly, I would trade anybody on the team for a all star power forward/center except Kevin Martin. It's kinda difficult to a championship contender without big man unless you have #23. Now whether this is possible at this point is up to GP.

QN

 

[BMiller52]

It is so easy for emotion to alter one's train of thought.

As much as Bibby has meant to this organization over the last set of years, it is better for this team to move on. And it might even be better for Bibby to find a change of scenery to re-vamp his career. He would make a killer bench threat for a championship caliber team.

Anyway you look at it Bibby is not going to be the PG for the Kings if we expect to win a title. In the time it would take to surround him with championship type talent he will be way out of his prime. So why not cut your losses and try to help both him and our team?

Exactly. Mike would be a great side kick for a player like Paul Pierce in Boston and we could use some young talent. Or he would do a lot better on a team with a dominant PF/C. He doesn't have the to compliment him here.

 

[rumpled]

Anyway you look at it Bibby is not going to be the PG for the Kings if we expect to win a title.

I'm not sure what that means really.....Mike can't carry a team superstar-style...is that what you mean? A lot of teams win titles with worse PGs than Mike Bibby, even the this year Mike. I'm sure we do need a superstar to ever think about winning a title. Teams aren't lining up to trade us one for Mike Bibby though, obviously. If Bibby returns to form he can still be a solid piece on a great team, whether its here or elsewhere.

He's got to be _really_ hard to trade actually, everyone knows he lacks defense and the poor numbers this year aren't selling any GMs on his big fat contract. Petrie doesn't get to take his pick of prizes that add up to 10 million per year, like we do on the internet trade calculator thingies. And there's no "opting out" already, the idea that he'd say "no thank you" to 30 million dollars in order to test the free agent market and take a pay cut now rather than later is silly. Mike's not that dumb but even if he was, that's what agents are for. Actually Mike needs Bonzi's agent...hmmm...nah that'd never work.

I wouldn't mind trading him of course, I just don't have a reasonable hope that we'd get much out of it. Other than someone else's bad contract instead. Possibly, however, we could send video of Mike's playoff heroics to all the teams in the hunt for a championship before the trade deadline...yeah, that could happen. We'd need to get this offense sorted out first though.

And well that's the other thing, I might be wrong about this but I think the disruption is a big problem for Mike. Won't go into it again, let's just say I wouldn't be surprised if we traded Artest and then Bibby started looking more like himself out there.

 

[GoGoGadget]

My position on the Mike Bibby thang is the same as it has been for a while -- definitely would have to give strong consideration to a realistic trade scenario, but (even with the current slump) FAR from our biggest problem and, therefore, not where we need to start if we're looking at change for the sake of change.

 

[BMiller52]

keep bibby trade ron and kenny thomas/SAR for a better front line?

No.

 

[Wheeler03]

IMO, BIbby is near the top of our list of problems. Without Bibby's jumpshot, he brings very little to the Kings. Though I am a little biased when it comes to Bibby, I honestly believe this to be the truth. His porous defense and lack of playmaking ability make him a liability when his jumpshot is on hiatus. Granted his injury will heal thus improving his shooting %; however, that does not help us this year and Artest may very well explode as a result.

 

[BMiller52]

IMO, BIbby is near the top of our list of problems. Without Bibby's jumpshot, he brings very little to the Kings. Though I am a little biased when it comes to Bibby, I honestly believe this to be the truth. His porous defense and lack of playmaking ability make him a liability when his jumpshot is on hiatus. Granted his injury will heal thus improving his shooting %; however, that does not help us this year and Artest may very well explode as a result.

It's not a lack of playmaking ability, it's that he doesn't do it enough. He's a good passer.

 

[Roman]

It's not a lack of playmaking ability, it's that he doesn't do it enough. He's a good passer.

Man, he's really good at faking then ... because I've been watching for years and rarely see him create for other players.

He's great at breaking guys down, but it's rare that he's doing it to create for the team.

Not saying he can't ... I've seen him do it. It's that it's a last option.

 

[Roman]

I don't think we should be so quick to pull the trigger on Mike Bibby. anybody agree?

No.

If you can pull the trigger on Bibby for Andre Miller, you shoot first and ask questions later. Bibby is probably gone this year or next, depending on how the year plays out statistically for him (if he shoots like dog poo for the rest - he'll be worthless on the open market, if it picks up - he'll probably bolt).

Andre Miller is the type of player that gets us playing traditional basketball, which is what this team's collective strength is.

A lineup of:

PG - Miller
SG - Martin
SF - Salmons or Artest (depends who is left)
PF - SAR
C - Miller

Post up Salmons/SAR and let Martin/Miller be the outside players with Miller being the initiator.

Of course, to be honest, I'd like to see this lineup some:

PG - Miller
SG - Martin
SF - KT
PF - SAR
C - Miller

Gives us good rebounding and keeps us traditional. Points would come from Martin, SAR and Brad. Rebounding from KT/Sar/Miller. KT is a SF by size and quickness.

 

[zo0mmike]

No.

If you can pull the trigger on Bibby for Andre Miller, you shoot first and ask questions later. Bibby is probably gone this year or next, depending on how the year plays out statistically for him (if he shoots like dog poo for the rest - he'll be worthless on the open market, if it picks up - he'll probably bolt).

Andre Miller is the type of player that gets us playing traditional basketball, which is what this team's collective strength is.

A lineup of:

PG - Miller
SG - Martin
SF - Salmons or Artest (depends who is left)
PF - SAR
C - Miller

Post up Salmons/SAR and let Martin/Miller be the outside players with Miller being the initiator.

Of course, to be honest, I'd like to see this lineup some:

PG - Miller
SG - Martin
SF - KT
PF - SAR
C - Miller

Gives us good rebounding and keeps us traditional. Points would come from Martin, SAR and Brad. Rebounding from KT/Sar/Miller. KT is a SF by size and quickness.

That lineup can probably win the Greg Oden sweepstakes.

I agree that it's too early, Bibby's not going to shoot 35% all year.

 

[kennadog]

That lineup can probably win the Greg Oden sweepstakes.

I agree that it's too early, Bibby's not going to shoot 35% all year.

My exact thought the moment I saw it. Why would we tade Bibby just to remain mediocre or worse?

 

[Roman]

That lineup can probably win the Greg Oden sweepstakes.

Bull. That lineup at least keeps us playing large basketball and gets the ball to the scorers rather than guys that want to be scorers and just aren't (ie. Mike Bibby and Ron Artest)

I agree that it's too early, Bibby's not going to shoot 35% all year.

Who cares? This team doesn't need a PG who shoots 16 times a game even if he shoots a relatively decent shooting percentage.

We need to be a traditional team and Mike Bibby is too selfish and he wants to lead this team in shots rather than in effort or action.

Our two "leaders" seem to be more intent on getting "theirs" thna helping this team win.

 

[Heuge]

Bull. That lineup at least keeps us playing large basketball and gets the ball to the scorers rather than guys that want to be scorers and just aren't (ie. Mike Bibby and Ron Artest)



Who cares? This team doesn't need a PG who shoots 16 times a game even if he shoots a relatively decent shooting percentage.

We need to be a traditional team and Mike Bibby is too selfish and he wants to lead this team in shots rather than in effort or action.

Our two "leaders" seem to be more intent on getting "theirs" thna helping this team win.

BULL
Bibby is a proven winner, both in college and in the pros. Is he a shot first player? Sometimes, yes sometimes no. The end result of his game has always, generally has produced a winner. Andre Miller and Mike Bibby are two different classes of players. To make a trade as you suggest would continue our 3 year trend of bleeding talent.

 

[Kev.in]

well now that ive taken some time to think about it. trading mike bibby may not be the best idea, after all...i mean how quickly can we turn on the guy who has carried us so many times. not lately, but he's clutch, not lately, but hes got one of the sweetest J's in the league, and how can you forget what he did to the lakers. maybe it's not him we need to move, maybe this isn't his style...i guess what I'm trying to say is....I don't think we should be so quick to pull the trigger on Mike Bibby. anybody agree?

I think that right now in our starting lineup Mike Bibby is the biggest weakness. If he's not going to get his head together and find his jumpshot then I don't see any way to justify keeping him when you consider age at the end of his contract, plus his performance and salary.

 

[BMiller52]

Man, he's really good at faking then ... because I've been watching for years and rarely see him create for other players.

He's great at breaking guys down, but it's rare that he's doing it to create for the team.

Not saying he can't ... I've seen him do it. It's that it's a last option.

That is what I'm saying dude. He is good at it but it's usually a last option for him.

 

[Roman]

BULL
Bibby is a proven winner, both in college and in the pros.

No, he's proven he can win when his team is chock-full-of-talent.

He won in one of the most talented teams in the NCAA and won when he moved to a team that had already established itself as a playoff reality.

Bibby's winningness is as highly overrated as is some teammate's losingness.

Is he a shot first player? Sometimes, yes sometimes no. The end result of his game has always, generally has produced a winner.

Were we winners last year? Were we winners now?

Mike Bibby didn't WIN in the past, Sacramento won with and without Mike Bibby. It's a 5 person game and he wasn't integral to our success. He helped push us into the next level, but he didn't make us winners.

But, when asked to play as a PG he's not proved to be very efficient.

Andre Miller and Mike Bibby are two different classes of players.

Yes, Miller is a PG and Bibby is an off-guard or a SG.

To make a trade as you suggest would continue our 3 year trend of bleeding talent.

Better to bleed it for a decent player than let it walk for nothing.

 

[Wheeler03]

I must agree with Roman on this point. This team is in desperate need of a pass first point guard. Heck, I would settle for a pass-first player at any position. Outside of Miller, who outside of the previoius 5 game stretch has proven himself to be pass oriented, our team is comprised of scorers. Each of them were the scorers on their college team and brought that mentality with them to the NBA (please note that KT is not listed because he can neither score nor pass). This team needs some direction and leadership on the court and Bibby does not fill that role by leading our team in shots on a nightly basis and in the process shooting an eye-popping 36%. I honestly believe that I could accomplish that feat by taking 16 half-court shots throughout the game . With a pass-first player like Miller, our scorers (Martin, Artest and Reef) would get the ball in their comfort zone and as a result score at a more efficient rate. Miller would also benefit by having another pass-first player on the floor with him. I just think the Kings, as currently constructed, need a floor general to lead them, not a malfunctioning assassin. Not to mention the fact that Miller plays average defense. That, in and of itself, is worth +15 on the scoreboard every single night.

 

[BigWaxer]

Its the entire mix of these players. If we had a Ron/Mike/Kevin working together we would have one of the best 3 in the league. Our bigs hurt us the most, in the west we get domiated inside, outside. Its an all around effort.

We wouldn't have done what we did in the past without Bibby. Don't forget that. We may not be better off now but getting rid of him is not the answer to all our problems. There is more then one pressing need here. PG breaking out of a slump is one.

 

[Roman]

Its the entire mix of these players. If we had a Ron/Mike/Kevin working together we would have one of the best 3 in the league.

Do we?

I've never been a fan of Ron Artest's offense. He's a decent paint guy, but he's far from good and leaps and bounds from great. He's always been a guy that played well off of a player in the post. Gets open looks and slashes on double teams. He's not a scorer. Never has been.

What I see is we have 3 jumpshooters and a lot of duplication. I see 3 players that need open looks to get good shots and no one to get them those looks.

Our bigs hurt us the most, in the west we get domiated inside, outside. Its an all around effort.

I disagree. Our bigs hurt us on some nights, but the constant penetration allowed by our perimeter players does not help. Our bigs can play man defense and hold their own. What they can't do is stop their man and mop up every Bibby mistake (which is 95% of our possessions).

What we also do is ignore our bigs, which gives them dis-motivation. There is an old basketball philosophy that talks about starting the game by giving it to your big man so that he gets involved and plays defense and rebounds. We rarely use our big men ... if at all. Worse yet, we've got one of the best scoring big men from the post area that is out there ... and he can't get but 8 looks a night.

We wouldn't have done what we did in the past without Bibby. Don't forget that. We may not be better off now but getting rid of him is not the answer to all our problems.

Bibby filled a need. A great shooter who didn't need to handle the ball or create good shots for other players. That's why he was so successful.

He got to play his true position in disguise.

Now he's needed as a PG and he wants to be our #1 option ... but he can't create his own looks, nor can he get our teammates involved. That's a double whammy.

A player like Andre Miller is a godsend for us. It takes one more scorer from our lineup and puts a passer in. It allows us to create an identity.

 

[VF21]

Let me see if I have it straight:

Bibby bad, "one of the best scoring big men from the post" good.

Sorry, but I think the horse has died. I'm really actually starting to feel guilty about even watching someone pick up a whip to strike those poor bleached bones.

 

[rumpled]

What we have is a new coach and a ballhog and a shooter who thrived on open looks from a system not hitting shots.

wtf, its like bibby just moved to town and caused all this. You can fault him all you want but he's right up there with peja and vlade as a main cog on a good kings team. maybe not a star but whatever, he showed up. Now lets see we have the same talent as last year basically but a team in turmoil so...it must be bibby because his numbers look bad?

 

[BawLa]

What we have is a new coach and a ballhog and a shooter who thrived on open looks from a system not hitting shots.

wtf, its like bibby just moved to town and caused all this. You can fault him all you want but he's right up there with peja and vlade as a main cog on a good kings team. maybe not a star but whatever, he showed up. Now lets see we have the same talent as last year basically but a team in turmoil so...it must be bibby because his numbers look bad?

Well, basically. I mean if you look back at all our losses this year, then you will see that Bibby shot horribly in 95-100% of those games. Bibby isn't out there for his defense so if he isn't hitting shots, and he isn't getting over 10 assists/game with his minutes, then he is hurting us. And that hurting is leading to hurting in other areas on our team. Another way to look at it is the fact that $12.5 million goes to Bibby to average 40% from the floor? Not exactly a solid business.

 

[Kingzrool]

Bibby is still totaly awesome!!! Any NBA coaches reading this thread should understand this. He is worth something valuable, I swear!!! This guy really has alot more potential in him, and we will not let him go unless it is for big difference maker.

 

[Heuge]

No, he's proven he can win when his team is chock-full-of-talent.

He won in one of the most talented teams in the NCAA and won when he moved to a team that had already established itself as a playoff reality.

Bibby's winningness is as highly overrated as is some teammate's losingness.

Were we winners last year? Were we winners now?

Mike Bibby didn't WIN in the past, Sacramento won with and without Mike Bibby. It's a 5 person game and he wasn't integral to our success. He helped push us into the next level, but he didn't make us winners.

But, when asked to play as a PG he's not proved to be very efficient.

Yes, Miller is a PG and Bibby is an off-guard or a SG.

Better to bleed it for a decent player than let it walk for nothing.

Umm, your hatred for Bibby is making it hard for you to give balanced opinions.
Bottom line: Bibby won a championship as the starting PG for a talented team. Talented team or not, he was on the team that won.
Bibby's arival to Sacramento put us over-the-top. We were the "best" team in the NBA for at least one year. We had a few unfortunate events which Bibby had nothing to do with.
Bibby is not a SG, he is a PG. And Bibby is a much better player then Miller. I wish we could take a poll from GMs across the league, but alas, we can not.
While I dont think Bibby is the greatest, or even amongst the best of the league, I do think you are selling him way short.

 

[BMiller52]

I think this team would be a lot better offensively(and defensively) than it has been with Andre Miller as the PG. I remember Iguodala said something like his first game with Dre as the PG "was the easiest 20 points of my life". He'd set Martin up for some really nice looks, and with Ron getting passes from Dre he'd be a lot closer to the offensive player he wants to be. Same with Brad. He can't be traded with another player from his team though(trade restriction because he just got traded), but we could do something like Corliss+Garcia/Douby for him and trade Bibby for a PF/C. All Philly really wants is an expiring contract and a young player or pick.

 

[Roman]

if bibby was shooting at least 43% this season, none of these threads would be discussed. bottom line.

Sure they would.

I could care less about his shooting percentage. I don't think he's a good PG. He's an amazing off-guard when he's hitting his shots, but he's never been a very good PG.

 

[VF21]

Sure they would.

I could care less about his shooting percentage. I don't think he's a good PG. He's an amazing off-guard when he's hitting his shots, but he's never been a very good PG.

I think everyone who has been here more than a week or so knows exactly how you feel. It's not even worth arguing any longer. You won't be convinced that your view of Bibby is tainted for whatever reason and it's really getting beyond tiresome to see you make the same comments over and over and over again.

We're KINGS fans. We will support our point guard because he has shown us over the years that he can get the job done. Regardless of how you feel about it, the ride we've been on with him has been a E ticket all the way.

I don't think we're ready to toss him out just because he's having some struggles.