One part of the answer is that Salmons is agood and consistent BB player. Let DW play better.
Meet Derrick Williams
- Thread starter Bricklayer
- Start date
Padrino
All-Star
this description certainly doesn't apply to salmons. he's a veteran presence with the ability to modestly perform up to expectation once every half-dozen games or so, but he's not much more than that at this stage of his career...
Uncia03
Starter
Williams outplayed Salmons in last night's game in both the defense and rebounding department while neither were really effective on the offensive end.
Salmons only took 2 shots and made one (a 3pt shot).
Williams, on the other hand, missed his 3pt shot but he attacked the rim and drew fouls and as I mentioned in my grade Barnes didn't score a single point on him. (Neither did Green when Williams matched up on him)
When Salmons came in Barnes took advantage of his size and length and went at Salmons multiple times with Salmons getting beat more often than stopping Barnes.
Oh and even though Salmons played 6 more minutes Williams had 6 more rebounds than Salmons.
If I had to choose between a player giving me 3 points on 1-2 shooting or 4 points on 1-3 shooting but the guy who went 1-3 also gave me a +6 in rebounds in fewer minutes and didn't get scored on...I'm taking the guy playing defense and rebounding.
Salmons problem, or I should say the Kings problem is that he's a better defender guarding guards. In an ideal situation Salmons should have been playing SG and checking Thompson while Williams was in at SF checking Barnes. Of course the issue with that is Curry and our PG. Do you have IT or GV in there for PG checking Curry or do you ditch your PG and play Thornton who was hot? The problem with playing Thornton with Salmons/Williams is that there is a severe lack of ball-handling there.
I keep seeing Tyreke's name mentioned for some reason, but you could have played a Tyreke/Salmons/Williams line-up and had good defense, greate size with enough ball-handling to run an offense...but those days have sailed.
I don't agree but what you say is the upside of what unormally expressed on here.
I guess, then, that it is to Malone's discredit that he played Salmons when Williams should have been in there. This coach and others before him have seen fit to play Salmons lots of minutes both at his natural SG position and at the SF which is a stretch for a player of his size. salmons is not a star but he is helluva better player than he has been given credit for on here.
Uncia03
Starter
I actually don't have a huge problem with Malone playing Salmons over Williams last night. As mentioned I was grading them both. Here is why I don't have the problem and it has nothing to do with their productivity.
You see, I fully believe that they are playing Thornton in order to show-case him. And because Thornton was playing well I wanted him to get as many minutes as possible. So if Thornton plays 40 minutes a night and plays great, then that's all good by me because it means it will be easier to trade him.
But that leaves you in a bit of a bind. Thornton is not a facilitator so if you're going to play a PG (GV/IT) then it makes some sense to play Salmons because he knows the offense and can handle the ball better than Williams.
So if I had to choose between either:
A: Showcasing Thornton and losing the game
B: Not showcasing Thornton but instead playing Salmons at SG and Williams at SF and winning the game
I'm going to choose option A every time until Thornton gets moved.
If Thornton wasn't in the picture then I think we'd see Salmons/Williams playing together on the court at the same time. We'll see if that happens if we're able to move Thornton.
You hit me where I'm weak. I appreciate Salmons' capabilities as you have outlined them and I am a long and strong advocate of moving Thornton for the general benefit of the team. so, yeah, that was a good analysis.
Uncia03
Starter
*grin*
I'm glad we're both on board with the 'play Thornton-move Thornton for something better' band-wagon.
It almost causes me actual physical pain to say it, but can I have a seat on that bandwagon?
Chubbs
Starter
We are at a point where minutes may be strange due to this whole 'showcasing' thing that may or may not be happening. I think that's why jimmer suddenly was in the rotation a couple weeks ago. His showcase was less fruitful than MAM's clearly cause they stopped playing him. Jimmer playing was not helping the cause. So they're trying MT again, hoping he gets hot and gets someone's interest. He just makes so much, makes it tough. Need to find a desperate team.
I think jimmer is at late 2nd round pick territory, and even those offers are drying up. Among gms, can't imagine too many with any delusions about jimmer becoming more than an end of bench player. I wouldn't even waste a 2nd round pick unless my franchise is really really desperate for attn. Which means his career is just about up folks. He and douby can tear up the d league. Or china. Or wherever. I don't see jimmer ready to give up yet.
Mass
Starter
I believe you're right. And I also believe Jimmer could have a great career here in Europe. His game could adapt to the european style of play and he would be one of the best offensive player around. He wouldn't have so many problems on defense, because players here are not so strong and athletic. I might be wrong, but I see Europe in the future of Jimmer, unless he really develops into a role player, 10/11 man off the bench.
Anyways, we've been able to turn a Derrick Williams thread into a Jimmer thread!
Chubbs
Starter
Sorry Derrick! Jimmer just makes his way Into trade discussions eventually.I believe you're right. And I also believe Jimmer could have a great career here in Europe. His game could adapt to the european style of play and he would be one of the best offensive player around. He wouldn't have so many problems on defense, because players here are not so strong and athletic. I might be wrong, but I see Europe in the future of Jimmer, unless he really develops into a role player, 10/11 man off the bench.
Anyways, we've been able to turn a Derrick Williams thread into a Jimmer thread!
Anyone else refuse to call him Dwill? Dwill plays in New Jersey dammit! There can't be two!
Padrino
All-Star
these were my initial thoughts, as well, but the injury-plagued deron williams can't seem to get on the court or stay on the court long enough for fans to remember that he was once a top five PG in the nba, so i guess i don't have a problem anointing derrick williams as "d-will."
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Some of us knew better. Hence was born the Platypus.
K
KingMilz
Guest
His defence seems more than fine @ SF like I was trying to tell all of you, dude can play just needs more playing time and not such long breaks between him coming in and out of the game.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
PFFFT!! As if!
Then where is Salmons going to get his minutes from???
Come on man, where are your priorities. Use your head.
Entity
Hall of Famer
Actually with the way salmons and Thornton are playing currently. I'd rather see outlaw behind Williams and salmons behind bmac.
jalfa
Starter
at some point recently Malone seems to have decided that Outlaw is a stretch four and a stretch four only. can't remember him playing a minute of SF time since. no idea why. I thought Travis performed quite decently as a backup three at the beginning of the season and I'm entirely in favour of your proposed rotation (as entirely as I can get behind Salmons getting any minutes at all, at any rate).
jalfa
Starter
yeah, the backup SG options aren't exactly strong. until lately, I'd have been very much in favour of calling up Trent Lockett, to see if there's anything. his recent d-league exploits have tempered my enthusiasm some, though. nevermind that they're apparently hell bent on having Thornton out there, trying to salvage whatever trade value he had left and failing spectacularly, for the most part.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Last night I thought Williams came out very lethargic on defense in the first half. As an example, he was about 12' from an unguarded Laker shooter and just looked at him. It looked like he was playing like he was still back in Minni. I think Malone reminded him at halftime that he wasn't back in Minni anymore; he came out a lot more aggressive on defense and with his rebounding. I just want to see a lot more or that. More and more and more. I don't think he knows what it is to play very hard at this point. He's got a lot of untapped potential.
K
KingMilz
Guest
Sarcasm?
Glenn
Hall of Famer
I'm pretty sure it's sarcasm.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Show me any bit of evidence that's he's not! So far in all the games he's played for us, which isn't many, he's defended the position well. I do know what my eyes tell me.
K
KingMilz
Guest
Thank you Bajaden I been trying to stress this point even before he came dude has been excellent when was the last time we saw our SF being beasted down low since Williams came? Dude does fine contesting shots and staying in front of anyone.
K
KingMilz
Guest
Would anyone like to ask anymore questions in regard to Derrick Williams ability to play SF on either end of the floor? Feel free to ask I'm here for you.
Some players are a force in college, but too slow to adjust to the pace in the NBA (Jimmer). Others have the speed and athletic ability to adjust but need more confidence (Williams). The Mavericks game is a precursor of things to come we hope.
Still others have the talent and ability but need to be coached with a strong presence (Gay)??? This guy is worth taking a chance on.
The 4 players the Kings unloaded were not bringing much to the table. The recent trades were definitely worth the risk.
There is less risk in a player like Gay that has been around awhile, as compared to some college kid that is 20 years old and has played one or two years after high school. I am feeling much more optimistic about the Kings' trade chances as opposed to the draft. The tanking discussion is a waste of time.
Still others have the talent and ability but need to be coached with a strong presence (Gay)??? This guy is worth taking a chance on.
The 4 players the Kings unloaded were not bringing much to the table. The recent trades were definitely worth the risk.
There is less risk in a player like Gay that has been around awhile, as compared to some college kid that is 20 years old and has played one or two years after high school. I am feeling much more optimistic about the Kings' trade chances as opposed to the draft. The tanking discussion is a waste of time.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
It's still amazing to me that anyone would consider placing the hopes of their up and coming franchise, in the lottery chance of getting a kid who was in high school less than a year ago. No thanks. Let the chips fall where they may, while trying to improve our sitaution with what we know we have and can get...and develop
Chubbs
Starter
One thing is certain. No one thinks mbah a moute/salmons is better than Gay/Williams. We jumped into a totally different level of talent. And income bracket. But thats what I wanted. Maybe not gay, but this is how you win or at least give the coach a chance. Get talent, not mid range salary guys. Mid range guys play like mid range guys. They're fine, but not a whole team of them.
I still have to pinch myself that we unloaded so much so quick.
I still have to pinch myself that we unloaded so much so quick.
