Meet Derrick Williams

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1
Derrick Williams
Position:
PF/SF
Hgt: 6'8"
Wgt: 240
Age: 22
Number: 7?
Nickname: Yipping Mongoose
College: Arizona
Yrs with Team: 0
Yrs in League: 3
Previous Teams: Minneosta ('11-'13)
How Acquired: trade for Luc Mbah a Moute, Nov '13
Contract: 2013-14 $5.3mil; 2014-15 $6.7mil;
Strengths: athlete
Weaknesses: inefficient, stuck between positions

Offense (Scoring & Passing)
Good athlete, but played PF in college and does not always have the ballhandling skills to make the most of his athleticism. Will finish inside with authority, but normally needs to either be set up or have a lane. Lacks much of a post game or midrange game off the dribble, but has some ability as a faceup catch and shoot player (although he often likes to take a steadying dribble or two before letting the shot go). Was gradually extending his range, although this year has gotten off to a poor start. Last season shot threes at about a 33% pace, and is a career 70% from the line, so far from a pure shooter. Has a slow windup to his shot and a tendency to kick his feet, but enough size and lift to get it off. Can occasionally come up with a nifty finish around the rim, but not a ballhandler, good for maybe 2 or 3 dribbles to set up a jumper or finish, and rarely creates for himself or others. Has carried a selfish tag as a passer and has averaged only 0.5 ast/gm over his career, but some of that may be skillset related as much as selfishness.

Defense & Rebounding
Has been caught between positions on this end too. If he's a power forward, he's smallish and weak inside, but does have some potential to show and recover and switch up top. If he's a small forward, his lateral mobility is an open question against quicker opponents. Has never used his hops much as a shotblocker. Has potential to be a strong rebounder as a small forward, barely adequate as a power forward.

Intangibles
Primary calling card right now is being the #2 pick in the draft a couple of years ago. A very good run/jump athlete who could team with McLemore to provide highlights on the break and give Vasquez multiple alley oop targets. But has been a man stuck between positions. If he's another undersized PF (his best streak in the NBA was at PF last season), will join a giant scrum for minutes. More likely will be tried at SF, where its unclear if he can provide the spacing to help Cousins, and all the ballhandling/passing will have to fall to the PGs. There were rumors and whispers of attitude problems and conflict with Adelman in Minnesota, and may think more highly of himself than his performance warrants. But with an open SF position here just waiting to be claimed, will have no one to blame but himself if he doesn't win it.

Stats 13-14: 14.7min 4.9pts (.352 FG% .133 3pt% .875 FT%) 2.4reb 0.1ast 0.4stl 0.4blk 0.5TO
Stats Career: 22.6min 10.1pts (.420 FG% .298 3pt% .708 FT%) 4.9reb 0.5ast 0.5stl 0.5blk 1.2TO
ESPN.com profile
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#2
Here are this year's shotcharts via NBA.com. Reveal much, but take the percentages a little bit with a grain of salt. he's off to an awful start, but is better than this normally:






Basically he wants to get right on the rim. Looks like he likes the right corner and angles on threes, which he has not been hitting. In between stuff is random and not successful as a rule. Doesn't finish well at the rim for a guy with his athleticism. Last year was better (per hoopdata 63% at the rim in 2012-13, about Reke level for comparison).
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#3
Here's a couple of game highlight vids that seemed to pretty well encompass what a good Williams game looks like. As you can see, having Vasquez play the Rubio role could be important for him. He's a finisher, not a creater. Also you can see that he's a bit heavy footed if you call him a SF. But if he's lost some weight this year, maybe that's a little better. Corliss made that transformation after a few years in the league.


 
#4
i've voiced my approval of this trade in other threads, insofar as it is a clear signal that the 2014 draft is where the kings intend to invest their plans for the rebuild. signing demarcus cousins to an extension was step 1. drafting ben mclemore was step 1.5. step 2 comes with yet another important lottery selection, which is certainly tiresome for kings fans, at this point, but represents the best chance of future success. it's a bit of a bummer that one of the very few universally positive acquisitions of the offseason was sacrificed at the altar of "tanking," but i suppose them's the breaks. the previous regime didn't exactly leave the kings with much in the way of assets. somehow the new regime still needs to find a way to offload the dead weight, so hopefully we'll see similar swaps of the kings' veteran players for young prospects/reclamation projects/draft picks...

that said, i remain skeptical of derrick williams' potential. i don't really know who he is in the nba, and i'm not sure he has any idea, either. he doesn't really read like other success stories you might compare him to. he reads much more like what most people think he is: a bust who was never going to live up to his status as a high lottery pick. he was a tweener big man precedent a year before thomas robinson. in my estimation, the best case scenario for williams is that he effectively learns how to play the pick and roll, and tops out as an amare stoudemire type of athlete. then again, it's well known what happened to stoudemire when he was first robbed of his athleticism, and then absent a ballhandler who could feed him on the regular. now you have to squint just to see the shadow of the player amare used to be...

but derrick williams may have some stoudemire-like success as a finisher playing off of greivis vasquez, though i'm not sure williams' ceiling is terribly high. he's a young, raw reclamation project, and if he receives consistent minutes, his value will be measured in the loss column, where the young, in-progress sacramento kings will continue to make their home prior to the 2014 draft...
 
#5
i've voiced my approval of this trade in other threads, insofar as it is a clear signal that the 2014 draft is where the kings intend to invest their plans for the rebuild. signing demarcus cousins to an extension was step 1. drafting ben mclemore was step 1.5. step 2 comes with yet another important lottery selection, which is certainly tiresome for kings fans, at this point, but represents the best chance of future success. it's a bit of a bummer that one of the very few universally positive acquisitions of the offseason was sacrificed at the altar of "tanking," but i suppose them's the breaks. the previous regime didn't exactly leave the kings with much in the way of assets. somehow the new regime still needs to find a way to offload the dead weight, so hopefully we'll see similar swaps of the kings' veteran players for young prospects/reclamation projects/draft picks...

that said, i remain skeptical of derrick williams' potential. i don't really know who he is in the nba, and i'm not sure he has any idea, either. he doesn't really read like other success stories you might compare him to. he reads much more like what most people think he is: a bust who was never going to live up to his status as a high lottery pick. he was a tweener big man precedent a year before thomas robinson. in my estimation, the best case scenario for williams is that he effectively learns how to play the pick and roll, and tops out as an amare stoudemire type of athlete. then again, it's well known what happened to stoudemire when he was first robbed of his athleticism, and then absent a ballhandler who could feed him on the regular. now you have to squint just to see the shadow of the player amare used to be...

but derrick williams may have some stoudemire-like success as a finisher playing off of greivis vasquez, though i'm not sure williams' ceiling is terribly high. he's a young, raw reclamation project, and if he receives consistent minutes, his value will be measured in the loss column, where the young, in-progress sacramento kings will continue to make their home prior to the 2014 draft...
The big thing I hold on to is the "what if?" idea with regards to Williams. And that alone makes this deal worth it. As you said, if the Kings could purge anyone they wanted on the team with no penalty, the only for sure players they would keep would be Cousins and McLemore. Probably Landry and Isaiah as well. What made Williams so attractive was his skill level he displayed in college. A tremendous athlete who could stretch the floor (sound familiar to someone else on the team?). He obviously just hasn't put it together yet. But the talent is present, no question.
 
#6
The big thing I hold on to is the "what if?" idea with regards to Williams. And that alone makes this deal worth it. As you said, if the Kings could purge anyone they wanted on the team with no penalty, the only for sure players they would keep would be Cousins and McLemore. Probably Landry and Isaiah as well. What made Williams so attractive was his skill level he displayed in college. A tremendous athlete who could stretch the floor (sound familiar to someone else on the team?). He obviously just hasn't put it together yet. But the talent is present, no question.
indeed. since i see few viable options with which to immediately improve this roster outside of the 2014 draft, i have no problem whatsoever with the "what if?" factor of derrick williams in the meantime. the kings won't likely get much for the remainder of their dead weight. they won't likely sign a high value free agent in the offseason. but they could possibly snag an impact player in the upcoming draft, and any young prospects they might acquire along the path to the 2014 draft are just a cherry on top, especially if those prospects go on to fulfill their potential in sacramento...
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#7
A tremendous athlete who could stretch the floor (sound familiar to someone else on the team?).
The thing that continues to make me shake my head at what people get hyped over is that that description, without more, really isn't much more than a good roleplayer. The game is played with a ball, stars play with the ball. If your game is basically spot up and catch and shoot, or go inside for an alley oop, well that's pretty much exactly what roleplayers do. They just convert what their betters create for them. Except of course to date Williams hasn't been very good at the conversion part. I can't escape the feeling Kahn drafted him #2 because he saw him with a big dunk in college and went ooh! Wow!
 
#8
that said, i remain skeptical of derrick williams' potential. i don't really know who he is in the nba, and i'm not sure he has any idea, either. he doesn't really read like other success stories you might compare him to. he reads much more like what most people think he is: a bust who was never going to live up to his status as a high lottery pick. he was a tweener big man precedent a year before thomas robinson. in my estimation, the best case scenario for williams is that he effectively learns how to play the pick and roll, and tops out as an amare stoudemire type of athlete. then again, it's well known what happened to stoudemire when he was first robbed of his athleticism, and then absent a ballhandler who could feed him on the regular. now you have to squint just to see the shadow of the player amare used to be...

but derrick williams may have some stoudemire-like success as a finisher playing off of greivis vasquez, though i'm not sure williams' ceiling is terribly high. he's a young, raw reclamation project, and if he receives consistent minutes, his value will be measured in the loss column, where the young, in-progress sacramento kings will continue to make their home prior to the 2014 draft...
I scoffed at first at the comparison before checking measurements. Amare is 6'10" while Williams is 6'8", but both players have a nearly identical wingspan and standing reach. The athleticism measurements were largely similar as well.

As far as doing what Amare did, the 2003-2009 Steve Nash doesn't exist in the NBA anymore, and to the extent that he does, he plays for Williams' old team. He is going to have to play like a hustle player if he wants baskets and he definitely needs to bring those rebounding numbers up.
 
#9
I think he can be a SF if he drops his weight to around 230-225. That being said, this team also has a hole at PF, so if he could learn that pick'n roll and bring up his rebound numbers, he could have success at that position as well. I do like him, I think if he works hard he'll have a good future in this league, and I approve of this philosophy of building for the future. Supposedly, another trade could possibly be in the works, so let's see if Pete unloads some of that redundant depth at PF and gets us a 3.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#10
Supposedly, another trade could possibly be in the works, so let's see if Pete unloads some of that redundant depth at PF and gets us a 3.
Source?

Because one possibility that occurred to me that wasn't possible with the current roster would be Williams taking over PPat's stretch 4 role if PPat was going to be moved.
 
#11
I do look forward to him potentially being the first 'Power' 3 we've had since Corliss Williamson. As oppossed to the finesse 3's we've always seemed to have.

Corliss on the staff could pay big dividends for him. Shall be interesting
 
#12
I scoffed at first at the comparison before checking measurements. Amare is 6'10" while Williams is 6'8", but both players have a nearly identical wingspan and standing reach. The athleticism measurements were largely similar as well.

As far as doing what Amare did, the 2003-2009 Steve Nash doesn't exist in the NBA anymore, and to the extent that he does, he plays for Williams' old team. He is going to have to play like a hustle player if he wants baskets and he definitely needs to bring those rebounding numbers up.
you don't need a player like steve nash to maximize the talent of a finisher. nash was certainly the best possible PG you could pair with amare stoudemire, but greivis vasquez should suffice with respect to setting up derrick williams, particularly in the pick and roll...
 
#13
Is Williams quick enough to cover all of the talented 3s in the league? I doubt it. He is an athelete that can rebound and do some scoring. The Kings are full of tweeners and scorers that have some good offensive games. What about the defense? This trade makes me sad. I miss the guy with the French/African name already.
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#14
I can't escape the feeling Kahn drafted him #2 because he saw him with a big dunk in college and went ooh! Wow!
No, Williams was pretty much the consensus #2 in that 2011 draft. If you go back and look, it was full of guys with question marks (Kanter, Vesely, Biyombo, Fredette) and guys who were frankly undervalued at the time (Leonard, K. Thompson, Vucevic...none of these guys was even in the discussion for #2). Kahn apparently tried to trade the #2 pick because he didn't want to have to draft Williams and then shove him behind Love, and he (and now Saunders) seem to have been hell-bent to trade him from the moment he showed up in Minnesota. The question is why didn't anybody bite? Was Minnesota asking too much, or did nobody think the consensus #2 overall pick was worth anything? Most likely a swing between the two - early on Minnesota was asking for the moon, but by the time they brought their price down they had dug a hole in the ground, tossed Williams' value into it, and covered it up with raw sewage.

For us he's a reclamation project of sorts, but it's not as if nobody else thought he was any good. Odds are somewhere in the range of 25 teams would have taken him #2.
 
#16
Is Williams quick enough to cover all of the talented 3s in the league? I doubt it.
I don't think anyone really knows for sure. We've taken a chance on a guy who might be able to have an impact at 3 with his size to match up against some of the bigger and longer talents who play that position.

As for his defense, coach Malone is a good defensive coach,..so we have a chance to increase his skill level there, if he is very coachable. If they didn't think he was, they probably wouldn't have made the move
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#17
The thing that continues to make me shake my head at what people get hyped over is that that description, without more, really isn't much more than a good roleplayer. The game is played with a ball, stars play with the ball. If your game is basically spot up and catch and shoot, or go inside for an alley oop, well that's pretty much exactly what roleplayers do. They just convert what their betters create for them. Except of course to date Williams hasn't been very good at the conversion part. I can't escape the feeling Kahn drafted him #2 because he saw him with a big dunk in college and went ooh! Wow!
I'll admit that as big of a Williams fan as I am, I was more in favor of the idea when we still had Tyreke Evans as our #2 option. He profiles out as a very good third option who can occasionally give you a big game but does it within the offense, not dictating the shots and the tempo like a go-to wing player would. A lot like Ben McLemore in that regard really. But perhaps you can get by without a solid #2 scorer if you have a strong #1 and three guys who all play like third options. Maybe if we manage to bring in a multi-talented PG like Eric Bledsoe (restricted Free Agent this off-season) or Rajon Rondo (on the block, though we have nothing to trade) we can do the balanced scoring on the perimeter thing where different guys take turns abusing whoever the weakest defender is on that night and win games with a strong team defense. It's not the sexiest lineup in the world, but it could be effective. If Cousins is as good as he's shown so far this season, he can't carry a team of mismatched role-players but he can carry a team offensively that is good at everything else.

The defense does remain my biggest worry with him though he's not over-matched physically at SF, and he's not lazy and disinterested. He actually had a better combine sprint speed than Ben McLemore, not to mention half the SFs in the league so raw footspeed isn't lacking either. He's just lacking in experience on the wing because he didn't get to play that way in college. But I think an increased role and a defensive-minded coach will be the best thing for him. As long as the desire is there, and I think it is, he should at least be average as a defender and eventually could even be better than that. His 7 foot wingspan should help him to contest shooters on the perimeter that he's just not small or agile enough to chase around screens all game. And he actually has the size and strength to make things difficult on the bigger SFs like KD, Lebron, Paul George, Batum, Jeff Green, soon to be Jabari Parker. You need an answer for those types of scorers in the playoffs and Williams does have the right physical profile for that role. I hope Coach Malone's system is a big push in the right direction. Certainly he should be motivated if the reward is more playing time.

And then there's always the chance that a #2 option is waiting for us in the draft this year. The difference though if Williams comes close to reaching his potential is that before this trade we needed to score big in the draft. Now we maybe do and maybe don't. It's still a long ways off, so we'll find out over the next few months.

PS - Not sure how to work this in, but I felt like it should be noted that Williams also plays with a chip on his shoulder like Cousins does. Never getting much of a chance in Minnesota gives him even more reason to feel under-appreciated. I suspect the two of them will get along well.
 
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#18
You guys do realize that we're getting Thomas Robinson again right? Not exactly the same skill set but the same tweener type. He's not big enough to play PF and he's not athletic enough to play SF. Just because you can dunk doesn't mean you're athletic enough to play the SF position. Williams will be an embarrassment trying to guard those bigger SF's listed and an even bigger embarrassment when the smaller SF's go right around him. At his best he is a bad shooter, mediocre rebounder, bad passer, bad defender and stops the ball on offense according to TWolves fans. Here's a quote from one of their forums..

"Derrick Williams will come to your team and immediately put up huge numbers. You will be amazed that you only gave up a role player for him. All he needed was to get out of Minnesota, where Adelman just didn’t let him be the player he could be. And with Cousins there, it opens everything up for D-Will. Minnesota just didn’t have the big, athletic body for other teams to worry about. 20 and 10 is the norm, and man, he even nails the three consistently. The trade is a BIG win.

And then somehow, you don’t really know how or when it happens, none of this is really true. Yeah, he can put up 16 and 8, but you really can’t stand playing him long enough to get there."
 

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer
#19
Why the long faces, we just got a #2 draft pick for a second round pick. I mean isn't this the argument for intentionally loosing... to get a top 5 pick? {Sarc}
 
#20
Thanks for the scouting report.

Has anyone else had trouble using the current NBA "player" site. It has driven me to frustration every time I try and use it. Of course they don't call me heavy fingers for nothing.
 
#21
For better or for worse, Cowbell Kingdom got a scouting report from Zach Harper, their counterpart writer for the Wolves: http://cowbellkingdom.com/2013/11/26/what-to-make-of-derrick-williams/

Summary: DW has taken strides to become a SF (weight loss, corrective surgeries to allow him to breathe more easily and get in better shape), but the shooting and ballhandling aren't there yet to enable big minutes at the 3. Sees him as a stretch 4.

Not exactly how I envision him being an ideal fit here - he'll need to up the shooting, even if from the mid-range, and I see him as a better rebounder/defender at the 3 than the 4. Let's hope Malone and Co. can work some magic here. The best thing is that there is no pressure on him, other than to defend and play within himself on offense.
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#22
Minor update but the trade has officially gone through, according to Jason Jones.

https://twitter.com/mr_jasonjones/status/405383542554640384

Sidenote: how do I turn on the mobile theme for this forum?
I don't think you can "turn on" a mobile version. Web sites that can work on iPads and iPhones detect those devices themselves - at least that's the way most of them work. The forum itself works about as well as you could expect in the quest to trying to do something normally done with a computer by using a phone.
 
#23
For better or for worse, Cowbell Kingdom got a scouting report from Zach Harper, their counterpart writer for the Wolves: http://cowbellkingdom.com/2013/11/26/what-to-make-of-derrick-williams/

Summary: DW has taken strides to become a SF (weight loss, corrective surgeries to allow him to breathe more easily and get in better shape), but the shooting and ballhandling aren't there yet to enable big minutes at the 3. Sees him as a stretch 4.

Not exactly how I envision him being an ideal fit here - he'll need to up the shooting, even if from the mid-range, and I see him as a better rebounder/defender at the 3 than the 4. Let's hope Malone and Co. can work some magic here. The best thing is that there is no pressure on him, other than to defend and play within himself on offense.
Right now, this is who he is and it's cause for concern. Tweener 3/4 that were drafted high have pretty poor track records for putting together big careers and if he can't adjust at the 3, we're already overstocked at the 4 with guys that don't rebound or defend. It's why I'm skeptical of the "career resurrection" thing. It just doesn't happen very often with top 10 picks.
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#24
Given the endless permutations and combinations of the upcoming draft, any player that might be picked #2 will make Williams look like a middle school player.
 
#25
I don't think you can "turn on" a mobile version. Web sites that can work on iPads and iPhones detect those devices themselves - at least that's the way most of them work. The forum itself works about as well as you could expect in the quest to trying to do something normally done with a computer by using a phone.
I'm assuming the new forum software doesn't support this (which in itself is mind boggling in the age of mobile computing), so won't take the thread much further off topic, but the old forum software definitely had a mobile theme that had a more simplified layout and buttons that were clickable without need to pinch and zoom on a phone/tablet. Not the case here, but would love to be proven wrong. Thanks
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#26
Thanks for the scouting report.

Has anyone else had trouble using the current NBA "player" site. It has driven me to frustration every time I try and use it. Of course they don't call me heavy fingers for nothing.
Oh yes. What they are trying to do there is amazing. unfortunately they have clogged the whole thing up so much, and buried core information so much, its almost unusable.

Next thing they are apparently going to add is get this, video highlights, every game, of every shot made by every player in that game. Ridiculous. Unfortunately it will probably instantly crash anything but an elite gaming PC on loadup.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#27
I'm assuming the new forum software doesn't support this (which in itself is mind boggling in the age of mobile computing), so won't take the thread much further off topic, but the old forum software definitely had a mobile theme that had a more simplified layout and buttons that were clickable without need to pinch and zoom on a phone/tablet. Not the case here, but would love to be proven wrong. Thanks
I will make an inquiry.
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
#28
I posted in the other personnel thread my thoughts but I believe this move will end up leading to us moving JT or PPat. If DWill is going to succeed, I believe it's going to be as a PF. He's going to be to slow for SFs. Lets hope the staff can develop his handle so that he can take PFs off the dribble. It's all potential still with the kid. He's going to get an opportunity to deliver finally. I know we need defensive players but geez, we also need guys who can put the ball in the hoop. We are in short supply of that type of guy.
 
#29
Certainly seems at least slightly redundant with PPat in terms of that tweener stretch 4, maybe an indication of the FO's belief in him past this year
 

Revrag

Father, Husband, KingsFan
Staff member
Administrator
Contributor
#30
I'm assuming the new forum software doesn't support this (which in itself is mind boggling in the age of mobile computing), so won't take the thread much further off topic, but the old forum software definitely had a mobile theme that had a more simplified layout and buttons that were clickable without need to pinch and zoom on a phone/tablet. Not the case here, but would love to be proven wrong. Thanks
This forum uses a dynamic layout and automatically scales to fit whatever size screen you are using. It's not perfect but it works pretty good.